sdhd-saschayou. all, too :-)00:00
sdhd-saschaIan. It's nice to read your message. Because my thing in my brain remembers, or something.. thank you, for learning ; -) just rembering the timezones ;-)00:13
mwhudsonhow can i see when a branch is going to close?00:45
mupPR snapd#8028 closed: tests: use test-snapd-upower instead of upower <Test Robustness> <⚠ Critical> <Created by anonymouse64> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8028>06:54
zygagood morning08:05
zygamwhudson: what do you mean?08:05
mwhudsonzyga: branches autoclose in 30 days right?08:06
zygamwhudson: ah, I see08:06
zygaI _think_ so08:06
zygabut I only used branches once08:06
zygaand I didn't look at it after the week I needed it08:06
mwhudsoni'm sure i've seen the date a branch is due to close at somewhere in some command's output08:06
mwhudsonbut i can't remember what08:06
roadmrzyga, mwhudson : they do, and closure date might show in snapcraft status output08:14
roadmrnot sure snap info shows that08:14
roadmractually pretty sure snap info does NOT show that because it doesn't show branches at all :)08:15
roadmrmwhudson: confirmed, you need to own the snap and use "snapcraft status" to see branch expiration timedate08:16
mwhudsonoh wait part of why i'm confused is that the branches i care about have already closed :)08:16
mwhudsonroadmr: thanks for checking that though :)08:16
roadmrmwhudson: :P08:16
mborzeckizyga: pstolowski: hey08:24
mborzeckizyga: do you remember a discussion about debug symbols in snaps?08:33
mborzeckizyga: there's a discussion about stripping arch packages, and someone brought up Clear Linux debug symbols support: https://docs.01.org/clearlinux/latest/guides/clear/debug.html#08:34
mborzeckizyga: imo it does look intriguing08:34
mupPR snapd#8030 closed: tests: add a command-chain service test <Simple 😃> <Created by chipaca> <Merged by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8030>08:46
zygamborzecki: yes, I do08:51
zygamborzecki: indeed, that is interesting08:52
zygamborzecki: can you add this so the thread somewhere or add a card to investigate it later08:52
zygagosh, I'm so sleepy today09:29
mborzeckizyga: the fact that it's snowing doesn't make it better i suppose09:31
mborzeckizyga: or at least it's pretending to snow here09:31
zygait's raining here09:31
zygaat +309:31
zygaI wish we had a real winter09:32
zyganot this fake winter thing09:32
mborzeckizyga: yeah, snowing very lightly and it melts right away09:33
zygaI'm fighting the mount-ns test and the gadget test now09:33
zygaI'll make real coffee (decaf doesn't work but doesn't cause headaches) and keep pushing09:33
roadmrin soviet russia vinter melts you09:34
mborzeckizyga: can you take a look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8029 ?09:34
mupPR #8029: tests: use test-snapd-upower instead of upower <Test Robustness> <⚠ Critical> <Created by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8029>09:34
zygaoh, that's a 2.43 backport09:34
zygashall we just merge? I think so09:35
mborzeckihttps://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8027 is green, i'd land it and start working on a followup09:38
mupPR #8027: snap: disable auto-import in uc20 install-mode <UC20> <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8027>09:38
zygamborzecki: I see what you mean now, that's great09:38
zygait's green09:38
zygalet's land09:38
zygathough ian wanted to look09:39
zygacan you work on a follow-up09:39
zygaian should be up soon-ish09:39
mborzeckizyga: yeah, i will09:41
mborzeckiquick errand, back in 1h or so09:41
zygawhat's /image.fstab?09:45
mupPR snapcraft#2874 closed: Sync fixes from snapcraft-desktop-helpers (LP-1661626 & broken XDG link) <Created by MarcusTomlinson> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2874>10:02
pstolowskizyga, mborzecki are you guys familiar with test suites in spread?10:08
zygapstolowski: as much as we all are10:08
zygawhat's up?10:08
pstolowskizyga: i defined a new one (which is a carbon copy of existing one, plus tweaks), but getting: error: nothing matches provider filter10:09
zygapstolowski: can you show me ze code10:09
pstolowskispread -debug google-nested:ubuntu-18.04-64:tests/nested/preseed/10:09
zygayou need an entry in spread.yaml10:10
zygaand a directory with actual tests10:10
pstolowskizyga: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/7YRs9qT6w7/10:10
zygapstolowski: did you add tests to tests/nested/preseed?10:10
pstolowskizyga: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/3HFjMMrG7b/10:11
zygais the task manual?10:11
pstolowskizyga: it's manual:true in the suite definition, not in the task ()it's the same for existing nested tests10:12
zygacan you spread -list and see it?10:13
pstolowskiaha, it's not shown, maybe indentation is off in the yaml10:14
pstolowskinope, indentation is fine.. it must be something silly10:20
zygapstolowski: silly idea10:24
zygapstolowski: build spread and printf the yaml it loads10:24
zygapstolowski: or maybe spread -list -vv will show that, dunno10:24
zygaI wonder what is10:24
pstolowskizyga: indeed -vv prints it10:25
zygapstolowski: backends?10:25
zygaand if you remove manual: true?10:25
zygaI found a bar of chocolate10:27
zygait was on top of the fridge10:27
zygaprobably hid it so  that kids would not devour all xmas stuff at once10:27
zyga$wife doing orange juice and needed to fetch the juicer10:28
pstolowskiremoving manual:true doesn't help. my suite is visible as spread.Suite with -vv. something doesn't match somewhere apparently10:30
zygacan you check backends10:30
zygaI had an issue somewhere a while ago10:30
zygawhere a test would just not execute on anything defined10:30
zygabecause backends or systems didn't match10:30
pstolowskizyga: aaah, silly me, solved. backends systems definition vs test's system as you said, thank you!10:37
zygacool :)10:37
pstolowskii'll need sergio to figure out 19.10 and 20.04 on gc10:37
zygamborzecki: can you look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031 when you are back10:43
mupPR snapd#8031 opened: tests: update mount-ns test tables <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031>10:43
mupPR #8031: tests: update mount-ns test tables <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031>10:43
zygamborzecki: in particular I think I found a bug in writable paths configuration10:43
zygamborzecki: as /etc/systemd/system is mounted twice10:44
zygamborzecki: o/10:56
mborzeckioh, that's interesting10:57
mborzeckizyga: does that only happen on core?10:57
zygasystem or machine-id?10:57
zygaI think only on core10:58
zygalet me check10:58
mborzecki/etc/systemd/system moutned twice10:58
zyganote that it is mounted on HOST10:58
zygaso it's there before we touch it10:58
mborzeckizyga: maybe related to /etc/systemd/system coming from writable10:59
zygaI bet some code manually does it10:59
zygaI checked core18 and it's only listed once10:59
mborzeckior the whole /etc/systemd, don't remember how wriable-paths is set up in 1810:59
zygaso ... dunno10:59
sdhd-saschahey, is there another interface for the call `sched_setscheduler` ? I only found `process-control`, `docker`, `browser` ? It seems that music-application, like synthezier and midi-sequencer also needs this.11:02
zygaI don't think so11:04
zygathere used to be rtkit11:04
sdhd-saschahmm, `process-control` could be good enough.11:04
zygathat would allow apps to use it without privs11:04
zygasdhd-sascha: do you have an app that needs it?11:04
sdhd-saschazyga: true, thank you11:04
sdhd-saschain #snapcraft, there i test `gsequencer` snap https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~jkraehemann/+junk/gsequencer-3/files11:04
sdhd-saschai just see this call in the logs. Is not for me11:05
zygamborzecki: check this out11:13
zygajust a quick prototype11:14
zygathe diff is tiny, I'll check how it changes the usability of the data11:18
zygaI suspect it will let us see meaningful diffs across core systems11:19
zygamborzecki: also note the machine-id thing11:19
zygait feels very fishy11:19
zygaunless I am looking at some tmpfs-not-persistent view11:19
zygabut I doubt taht11:19
mupPR snapd#8027 closed: snap: disable auto-import in uc20 install-mode <UC20> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by anonymouse64> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8027>11:34
zygahey ian!11:38
zygathanks for merging that11:38
zygamborzecki: ^ follow-up space ready11:38
ijohnsonHey folks11:39
* ijohnson is not really here yet11:40
=== ricab is now known as ricab|bbl
pstolowskihi ijohnson!12:09
mupIssue core20#12 opened: Drop consoleconf from the core snap <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/issue/12>12:18
mupPR core20#11 opened: Add arm64 architecture <Created by xnox> <https://github.com/snapcore/core20/pull/11>12:18
zygaeh, mup still gives bad github urls12:19
zygamborzecki: I simplified the differential idea, I love it12:21
zygamborzecki: thank got python has type inheritance on base types12:21
zygamborzecki: so all I needed was sint(int) that renders as {:+}12:21
zygaand a few patch-ups to use sint() when diffing12:21
zygaI'll check how this behaves in reality in core1612:21
zygabut I'm very optimistic now12:21
zygamborzecki, ijohnson: I'd like to land this https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/803112:22
mupPR #8031: tests: update mount-ns test tables <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031>12:22
zygaplease review / object12:22
mupPR snapd#8032 opened: boot, cmd/snap(-bootstrap): move run mode and system label detection to boot <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8032>12:54
mborzeckicmatsuoka: ^^ can you take a look12:55
cmatsuokamborzecki: sure, I'm just finishing a fix here12:55
zygaguys, I need to skip standup12:55
zygaor I'll join from the go12:55
zyganeed to help wife as she drives around with lucy12:56
zygaplus no food at home and starving to eat out12:56
zygaI'll keep working on a feature branch on the ho12:56
mupPR snapd#8033 opened: Tweak/differential mount ns <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8033>12:58
ijohnsonzyga: yeah I reported the mup GitHub issue links to Gustavo a while ago12:59
zyga^ just a draft, partial data change, won't pass12:59
ijohnsonzyga: also yes I will review your branch after SU12:59
zygaijohnson: I think I did so as well12:59
zygaijohnson: thanks!12:59
zygagoing now12:59
zygaI'll publish testbed-tool today12:59
zygadidn't figure out a better name, open to rename later12:59
mborzeckiijohnson: have you started looking into a spread test for kernel failover? if not i can look into that13:09
mupPR snapcraft#2888 opened: elf: read ELF type when extracting attributes <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2888>13:12
ijohnsonmborzecki: do you mean for the uc20 kernel extraction? I have not yet done a spread test, but I have started a bit what we talked about with pedronis on Friday about panic'ing in the mock bootloader13:15
mborzeckiijohnson: i can try with actual broken kernel, to see how complicated that is13:25
zygaonline in the back seat13:31
zygaall three kids accounted for13:31
zygadog included13:31
zygawe travel like polish memes13:31
ijohnsonmborzecki: I tried the failover with an empty file as the kernel.efi but the bootloader just hung, so if you had a real broken kernel that panicked immediately that would be better for tests13:34
cmatsuokacan I un-approve a PR after I already approved it?13:35
mborzeckicmatsuoka: you can dismiss your review13:35
mborzeckicmatsuoka: should be near the bottom of the page, where the ci checks are listed13:35
cmatsuokahmm, let me see...13:35
cmatsuokaOk, nice, thanks!13:36
ograzyga, https://imgur.com/a/XtGYPeI ... about 200 layout entries now ... but it runns fully confined (as root, no gdm/lightdm though)13:43
* ogra is very surprised to not see an actual performance impact from these many layouts 13:44
zygaogra: OMG13:46
zygaI need to rework some layout code to make it better13:46
ograit would be really awesome to have  something luke "auto-layout" ...13:46
ograsimply diff $SNAP with / and automatically add bindmounts and symlinks for all non-existing files in /13:47
ogras/luke/like/ ... :)13:47
mborzeckiijohnson: standup?14:01
diddledanmborzecki, sit down!14:24
mupPR snapcraft#2889 opened: meta: always generate snapcraft-runner to workaround classic PATH bug <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2889>14:24
=== ricab|bbl is now known as ricab
zygawhat did I miss14:27
zygamborzecki: is the standup over?14:27
mborzeckididdledan: rinse and repeat :)14:27
mborzeckizyga: yup14:27
ijohnsonzyga: you missed the part where I heroically came in at the last minute to standup14:28
zygaif you were a moment longer I could have joined too :)14:28
zygabut no worries14:28
zygamy standup update is simple: fixed one more branch (green), working on leaky tests14:28
ijohnsonalso did you see my comment on your core20 mount ns PR?14:28
zygaas an associated brach-off I updated mount-ns tables14:28
zygaijohnson: not yet14:28
zygaand I'll open another PR that does differential tables14:29
ijohnsonjust a quick thing not sure if you had a typo or if we do actually have an issue there14:29
zygaprobably not a typo14:29
ijohnsonhmm :-/14:30
zygaijohnson: so (/dev/sda3)/EFI/ubuntu was mounted as /boot/grub14:30
zygaijohnson: (if this syntax makes sense)14:30
zygaijohnson: is that unexpected?14:30
ijohnsonyes that makes sense14:30
ijohnsonyour PR description said /boot/grub was from /boot/EFI14:30
zygaijohnson: in any case I think this PR showed some suspicious stuff and I'm happy I updated those tables14:30
ijohnson(missing the /ubuntu) at the end14:30
zygaah, probably mistake there :)14:30
zygaI did type the commit by hand14:30
zygawhile outside I got a veggie burger14:31
zygaand it was ... good14:31
zyganot great but not bad either14:31
zyganeed to try some more14:31
zygaijohnson: I revised the commit message14:34
mupPR snapd#8024 closed: overlord/snapstate: add reproducer for LP#1860324 scenario <Created by bboozzoo> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8024>14:34
mupPR snapd#8025 closed: overlord/snapstate: add reproducer for LP#1860324 scenario (2.43) <Created by bboozzoo> <Closed by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8025>14:34
ijohnsonzyga: have you tried the "impossible burger" ?14:35
zygaijohnson: nobody sells them here yet14:35
zygabut I heard about it14:35
ijohnsonzyga: ah I see14:35
ijohnsonI haven't tried it myself yet either14:35
ijohnsonI really like these black bean veggie burgers from the supermarket though14:35
ijohnsondon't remember the brand14:36
zygaI love beetroot burgers14:36
zygawe make them at home14:36
ijohnsoninteresting never tried beetroot burgers14:36
mborzeckizyga: beetroot in place of meat or the bun?14:36
zygamborzecki: meat14:36
zygait's not pure beetroot, I can ask my wife for the recipe14:36
zygabut the taste is insane :)14:37
zygaI love those really14:37
zygawe bake them in the oven14:37
mborzeckibtw. if it has no mean, can it still be called a burder or does it downgrade to sandwich at that point? :P14:37
zygaand when we make a batch it's usually 30-5014:37
zygawe eat half and freeze the rest or give them away14:37
zygamborzecki: I think nobody can claim it is not a burder ;-)14:38
zygahttps://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031 <- review please14:38
mupPR #8031: tests: update mount-ns test tables <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031>14:38
zygait's just the data tables14:38
zygaand I can open the follow-up on top14:38
mupPR snapd#8034 opened: fix for lp:1860324 for 2.43 <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8034>14:43
zygahey __chip__14:44
__chip__#8034 should be interesting14:44
mupPR #8034: fix for lp:1860324 for 2.43 <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8034>14:44
zyga__chip__: ouch, updated vs updates!14:44
__chip__as soon as samuele can there'll be one against master (already pushed so you can look at it if you want but not proposed so missing my test)14:44
zygathank you for finding the time to propose those at the sprint!14:45
__chip__to be clear, this is a bug on master, 2.43 just makes it more likely14:45
zygawe'll get them reviewed14:45
* zyga nods14:45
__chip__but it's subtle enough that it warrants another 2.43, at least the last time i was able to talk about it with mvo14:45
zyga__chip__: did any new data on the __writable__ issue came up at the sprint?14:46
__chip__zyga: not yet, i think we're waiting for info from $customer but i don't know if we've asked them yet :|14:47
__chip__zyga: i'll ask14:47
ijohnson__chip__: zyga: I asked the customer in the bug but didn't hear anything back14:47
zygaack, thank you guys14:47
__chip__ijohnson: was the customer reading the bug, or did it need to go via field?14:48
__chip__'cause all i was going to do was ask field :)14:48
__chip__(which i can still do, sometimes the cable needs jiggling)14:48
ijohnson__chip__: the customer reported the bug and responded to a question I asked on Friday so I assume that they are reading it, but they might have been busy with other things mon/tues14:48
zyga__chip__: the bug tracker was customer specific so I would expect they follow it14:49
ijohnson__chip__: yeah probably worth trying to talk to John Agosta in CPT to raise it with them14:49
ijohnsonraise it -> make sure that the customer tries our suggestionss14:49
__chip__ijohnson: will do14:49
ijohnson__chip__: ack thanks14:50
mborzecki__chip__: thanks for the PR! edited the title so that the title checks are happy14:52
__chip__ah, yeh thanks14:53
mupPR snapd#8035 opened: data/selinux: workaround incorrect fonts cache labeling on RHEL7 (2.43) <Created by bboozzoo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8035>15:28
mborzeckipstolowski: ^^15:28
zygamborzecki, ijohnson: ping on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031 please15:49
mupPR #8031: tests: update mount-ns test tables <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031>15:49
zygait's just data tables!15:49
ijohnsonzyga: but it's almost 2000 lines of data tables! :-)15:49
zygayes but they are what we do today15:49
zygawe can argue if that's correct but that's just a snapshot15:49
zyganote that I don't mind if you read them in detail15:50
zygathe next PR after that will make it less painful to do changes15:50
zyga(after another painful change though)15:50
ijohnsonhmm wasn't your re-numbering option supposed to prevent things like this?15:50
zygait makes them less severe15:50
zygabut as I explain in the follow-up15:51
zygait's not immune to insertion in the middle15:51
zygathat causes re-numbering15:51
zygathe follow-up switches to delta encoding15:51
ijohnsoni.e. for xenial it was `1:1 /system-data/etc/systemd/user /etc/systemd/user rw,relatime shared:45 - ext4 /dev/sda3 rw,data=ordered` and now it's just `1:1 /system-data/etc/systemd/user /etc/systemd/user rw,relatime shared:46 - ext4 /dev/sda3 rw,data=ordered`15:51
zygaso insertions in the middle don't affect the rest as much as they did15:51
ijohnsonthe only difference being that 45 changed to 4615:51
ijohnsonbut I thought you sorted it and re-numbered it?15:51
ijohnsonoh wait I see what you mean15:51
zygayes but something else became :4515:51
ijohnsonthere's a new thing that was added15:51
ijohnsonsorry a bit slow today15:52
zygaI mean, it's not perfect, it's already a bit distant from the totally volatile original15:52
zygabut this will make it better :)15:52
zygathe problem is that core tables are out of date15:52
zygabecause those test were disabled15:52
zygaand we missed some updates the core snap being reflected15:53
ijohnsonzyga: submitted15:53
ijohnsonerr approved15:53
zygathank you!15:53
zygaI'll open the follow up shortly15:54
ijohnsonzyga: but also I do like the relative numbering idea to reduce the diff to protect against this kind of thing15:54
zygait's super costly and painful to read15:54
mborzeckiyeah, we'll know more once the tests are enabled on core15:54
zygajust doing classic side now15:54
zygaand I'll fix those bugs with gadget snaps15:54
zygaat least one15:54
* zyga braces for the fight!15:54
mupPR snapd#8031 closed: tests: update mount-ns test tables <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8031>15:54
* ijohnson recommends zyga look for the mount ns excalibur15:58
mupPR snapd#8036 opened: snapstate: refactor things to add the re-refresh task last <Created by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8036>15:58
zygaijohnson: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/803316:08
mupPR #8033: tests: switch mount-ns test to differential data set <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/8033>16:08
zygaijohnson: I love how github rendered some of the diffs16:08
zygae.g. here16:08
zygait's clear what only the relevantparts are changed16:09
zygaand I can really read the diff16:09
zyga16.04 -> 18.04 is just a few changes16:09
zygathat are all explainable16:09
ijohnsonyes that is very nice16:09
zygawow' it's raining heavily now16:10
ijohnsondo you have an example of what it would look like if a new mount was added in the middle to see that the generated diff is very small then ?16:10
zygajust look at this16:10
zygathose are real tables for 16.04 and 18.0416:10
zygawith changes in the middle16:10
ijohnsonthat's great16:11
ijohnsonmuch much better, good work!16:11
ijohnsonmaybe include that screenshot in the PR as a comment for other reviewers?16:11
zygagood idea16:11
zygathis one is a lot different16:12
zygabut the diff is really readable now16:12
ijohnsonhere's a silly question - do we even need those mount numbers at all for your actual tests?16:14
* ijohnson doesn't remember what the actual original test looks for16:14
zygathat's a good question16:14
zygait's hard to answer16:14
zygafor the shared: parts I'd strongly say yes16:14
zygafor the major:minor it's useful but probably for debugging (i.e. it will tell you what the device really was)16:14
zygafor mount_id parent_id it's also less clear but perhaps for debugging16:15
zygaI think the strongest case is for the shared: master: numbers16:15
zygathose really mean stuff16:15
zygaas in, right vs broken16:15
ijohnsonhmm well something to think about perhaps16:15
zygascreenshot added16:16
zygaoh, 14.04 !16:17
zygaforgot about that16:17
zygaI'll force-push one more change16:17
zygaah, no16:17
zygait's not there, just enabled too many things locally16:17
zygauff :)16:17
zygaijohnson: I'll do one more pass locally without the major:minor16:20
zygaand perhaps an --exclude feature16:20
zygato remove some of the annoying cgroup changes that caused breakage before16:20
zygabut first... tea break16:20
zygait's still cold in the office :/16:21
zygaI wonder if winter comes at all this year16:21
ijohnsonzyga: shall I bring some snow to frankfurt for you to take home?16:22
zygahaha, I wonder if you actually will16:22
zygawith the climate upside down16:22
zygamarch may be snowy16:22
roadmrwe had days above zero in Montreal, in January... go figure16:22
zygaroadmr: yesterday the temperature in warsaw and in the canary islands was the same16:23
* zyga goes fetch that tea16:23
roadmrdefinitely a more valid comparison than "it's as cold as mars"16:23
roadmrat this rate it'll be "it's hotter than venus"16:23
roadmrmore slaves for my robot colony16:26
mupPR snapcraft#2890 opened: extensions: add opengl extension to support classic and strict <Created by cjp256> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2890>19:47
* sdhd-sascha oh - oh ... i don't wan't to disturb someone ---- big sorry ;-)20:54
sdhd-saschais it for you the same, that younge poeple want learn ? or is this only my person who is strange...21:03
sdhd-saschai consider, you can be `consuldant` ... or ... but didn't work..21:04
sdhd-saschahmm... d... mn21:05
sdhd-saschahave had visit .. i talk about tesla - and that every informtic-problem is solved now ... and so on...21:10
sdhd-sascha(my wife is afraid, that i'm again a plant eater .. ;-) )21:11
sdhd-saschazyga: hey, again, thank you ;-) the python library i mean ,  was used by `conjure-up` ... but can't remember *widget..*21:26

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