[01:54] <tomreyn> daftykins: use a raspi (or similar SOC) and its gpio pins if you have
[01:55] <tomreyn> and, yes, i guess "shortly" was much an exaggeration
[03:13] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:15] <sarnold> hey lotuspsychje :)
[03:16] <lotuspsychje> morning sarnold
[03:51] <cybertruck2077> Hi guys, I'm writing Linux this semester
[03:51] <sarnold> kernel module?
[03:51] <cybertruck2077> anyone know a good resource for Bash shell flashcards?
[03:51] <sarnold> or something else?
[03:52] <cybertruck2077> Prescribed book is Linux Bible - 9th Edition
[03:52] <sarnold> I use this every few days https://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/refcards.html
[03:52] <cybertruck2077> Thank you!
[03:52] <sarnold> but this is probably more useful https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> cybertruck2077: whats it gonna be about exactly
[03:53] <cybertruck2077> The book has Fedora as a focus, but I've noticed Ubuntu is very similar, also Gnome, Bash, etc
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> cybertruck2077: wich class are you in?
[03:53] <cybertruck2077> Operating Systems Practice
[03:53] <sarnold> there's things that are very similar and things that are very different ;)
[03:53] <cybertruck2077> lol, thanks
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> cybertruck2077: so your book is making a journey through different Oses?
[03:54] <sarnold> so when something odesn't seem to work out right, ask around, someone may know what needs to change; the packaging is hugely different, but after that a lot is similar
[03:54] <cybertruck2077> 2nd year (This semester) covers the first 12 chapters of the book, 3rd year covers the second half
[03:54] <sarnold> time for me to bail, have fun :)
[03:55] <lotuspsychje> nite nite sarnold
[03:55] <cybertruck2077> lotuspsychje: it seems to cover the RHCE path
[03:55] <cybertruck2077> sarnold: thanks for the links!
[07:11] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:32] <ducasse> good morning
[09:44] <daftykins> tomreyn: hrmm i'd have to work out a way to get an OS on it that's enough to handle loading the firmware back onto the switch, i already have a USB to TTL on the way for £6.66 so i'll just be patient i suppose!
[11:19] <tomreyn> yes, this sounds easier then.
[11:20] <daftykins> appreciate the idea though :D
[11:22] <tomreyn> and i appreciate your (indirectly) pormpting me to read https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/110478/difference-between-uart-and-rs-232
[11:32] <daftykins> :D
[11:32] <marcoagpinto> Guys?! Hello!
[11:32] <marcoagpinto> it is the cola demon!
[11:32] <daftykins> oh nooooo
[11:33] <marcoagpinto> I have been optimising code and revising my thesis
[11:33] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:34] <marcoagpinto> I revised the abstract both in Portuguese and English
[11:34] <daftykins> might have a shot at 2029 completion then?
[11:34] <marcoagpinto> well, I was hoping this year
[11:34] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:34] <marcoagpinto> but the supervisors are very demanding
[11:34] <marcoagpinto> they pick on every little detail
[11:36] <marcoagpinto> also, I have been revising per bits (small parts) which I send to the cosupervisor for review
[11:36] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:37] <marcoagpinto> after the small parts are approved, I will move to bigger ones
[11:42] <lordievader> <marcoagpinto "they pick on every little detail"> That is what they are paided for...
[11:42] <marcoagpinto> lordievader: No one is paying them, they are doing it for free
[11:42] <marcoagpinto> :)
[11:43] <marcoagpinto> but they will earn $$$$ with the software
[11:43] <marcoagpinto> I have been optimising the software too
[13:32] <pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: They were referencing FDE and I assumed it meant full disk enc in the literal sense
[13:33] <pragmaticenigma> tomreyn: Though I have seen postings where encryption of the Ubuntu/Linux partition lead to issues with Windows
[13:33] <lotuspsychje> !info adwaita-qt eoan
[13:34] <tomreyn> pragmaticenigma: for this user it may not make a difference after all, i should probably just held back. ;-)
[13:34] <pragmaticenigma> yeah... that was the other thing... average user probably only needs home directory... safer and easier ;-)
[13:35] <tomreyn> no, no, i would say they do want dmcrypt-luks. but the installer automation is not capable of it.
[13:36] <tomreyn> i just mean i should probably not have gone into the details, it wonn't help in the end.
[13:37] <tomreyn> file system encryption is really not a good choice if you have other options
[13:41] <pragmaticenigma> true
[13:42] <tomreyn> https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/filesystems/fscrypt.html discusses the threat model
[14:50] <hggdh> tomreyn: it seems tail -f does not quite work with redirection
[14:50] <hggdh> (IDK why)
[14:50] <hggdh> but tail -f whatever | tee works
[14:51] <tomreyn> hggdh: oh? i wasn't aware.
[14:51] <hggdh> tomreyn: neither was I until I tried a few minutes ago :-)
[14:52] <hggdh> and it is surprising
[14:54] <hggdh> I am going to try current upstream's git head
[14:55] <tomreyn> probably some systemd side effect ;-)
[15:08] <chowder> tomreyn: another point that I'd like to make is that a lot of people coming to the ubuntu channel don't necessarily have a knowledge of IRC etiquette
[15:08] <tomreyn> chowder: so as #ubuntu cleary states on the channel topic, the channel is about *ubuntu* *support*. i pointed this out to rapha in what i felt was a kind way (after they apparently ignored the topic already)
[15:09] <tomreyn> rapha was not using ubuntu, was aksing about something unrelated.
[15:10] <chowder> I get where you're coming from but I think it could have been phrased differently. I understand that you felt you were kind but it didn't sound that way. Offtopic chatter is annoying but Ubuntu is still a Linux distro and we should, as Linux users, try to be more supportive.
[15:11] <tomreyn> chowder: i'm happy to be supportive, when things are on topic
[15:11] <chowder> This is a better way: "Hi, Rapha, welcome to the Ubuntu channel. I see that you're asking about something unrelated to Ubuntu. We're happy to help in any way that we can but we have to try and keep any discussions on-topic."
[15:12] <tomreyn> chowder: and when they aren't, i'm happy to point that out.
[15:12] <chowder> tomreyn: Have you ever worked in a position that was customer facing?
[15:13] <tomreyn> sure, but this is not commercial support, we're volunteers
[15:13] <tomreyn> do this felt impolite to you?
 rapha: then please move: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please register with NickServ (see /msg ubottu !register) and use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics (though our !guidelines apply there too). Thanks!
[15:20] <chowder> tomreyn: sorry, I got knocked off. You're right. That was polite and the user was probably being overly sensitive.
[15:20] <chowder> I guess I'm also overly sensitive because when I started using Linux it was a cesspool of people telling anyone interested in Linux to RTFM
[15:22] <daftykins> unfortunately you were being the other end of the spectrum, there
[15:22] <tomreyn> pointing to man pages doesn't seem wrong to me (if they aren't bad), but it should still be done after summing things up at least for less advanced users IMO.
[15:24] <chowder> I mean the "RTFM mentality". There's nothing wrong with referring someone to the man page but sometimes new users need a bit more help. Man pages are very technical for most people that only want to use a single command for one thing
[15:24] <chowder> daftykins: you're right. either extreme is no good
[15:25] <leftyfb> If a user is asking how to list permissions of a file using ls, then pointing them to the man page (instructions) on how to do so is more valuable than just giving them the answer.
[15:25] <daftykins> tell you what though, this raises a good point... over the last 15 years it's been common to link people to the communities available for different distros, but nobody has gone and checked if those are still alive and kicking - that might well be worthwhile
[15:25] <tomreyn> i do agree about !google though
[15:25] <tomreyn> !google
[15:25] <tomreyn> anyways, i'm glad we're roughly on the same page, chowder
[15:26] <daftykins> (i remember question askers sometimes bouncing back and saying so-and-so channel was empty/dead)
[15:26] <leftyfb> tomreyn: as for google, if it's a fairly simple query and the exact answer to their question is at the top of the first page, I'll give them the link to the answer and tell them the search phrase I used on google to find it
[15:26] <chowder> that's a good example of where that works, daftykins, but if user wanted to find a single term in a list of items what is more constructive telling them how to grep it or sending them to the grep man page and expecting them to learn regex?
[15:27] <chowder> Its tricky because then people get used to being spoonfed but if you don't spoonfeed anyone at all then you come off as an elitist
[15:28] <tomreyn> leftyfb: i guess that's a good approach sometimes, since it's empowering.
[15:29] <leftyfb> tomreyn: Can you come up with a time that isn't a good approach?
[15:29] <daftykins> still remember identifying a CentOS user lying about their system in order to get help
[15:30] <leftyfb> daftykins: that happens quite often
[15:30] <daftykins> "how did you know!?" - the [] around the shell prompt :D
[15:30] <leftyfb> mainly Ubuntu forks
[15:30] <leftyfb> or Debian "But Ubuntu is based on Debian!"
[15:30] <daftykins> those are the worst
[15:32] <tomreyn> leftyfb: i don't like the idea of promoting the use of the specific (web) search engine "google", i refer to "(web) search engines" rather. which also means i can't be sure which results the user will see (actually that's also true for google since results matter by geo location, user preferences).
[15:36] <leftyfb> oh look :)
[15:39] <daftykins> something happen?
[15:40] <leftyfb> an example of me typing the persons exact error message into google and it coming back with a explanation and a fix on the first result
[15:40] <leftyfb> sort of :)
[15:41] <tomreyn> leftyfb: i agree this was a good example of explaining how it helps to search the web for error messages before asking volunteer support
[15:42] <daftykins> they're usually too selfish to care :(
[15:43] <leftyfb> ok, I gotta go do real work for a bit :)
[15:46] <daftykins> sounds risky