| === cpaelzer__ is now known as cpaelzer | ||
| === cpaelzer__ is now known as cpaelzer | ||
| doko | o/ | 14:01 |
|---|---|---|
| didrocks | he | 14:02 |
| doko | cpaelzer, jamespage, joining? | 14:03 |
| jamespage | o/ | 14:03 |
| jamespage | yep | 14:03 |
| doko | let's start with component mismatches | 14:05 |
| doko | https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg | 14:05 |
| doko | didrocks: can you do/forward alsa-lib? | 14:05 |
| didrocks | doko: I will forward it | 14:06 |
| cpaelzer | here | 14:06 |
| doko | and I didn't look at the status of ghostscript/fonts, although cpaelzer did | 14:06 |
| didrocks | doko: actually, it’s the kernel team who maintains alsa | 14:06 |
| didrocks | so I guess it should be them filing the MIR | 14:07 |
| doko | jamespage: cinder/python-tabulate ? | 14:07 |
| didrocks | (looking at alsa-lib subscriber) | 14:07 |
| cpaelzer | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fonts-urw-base35/+bug/1862048 was waiting for a subscriber | 14:07 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1862048 in ghostscript (Ubuntu) "[MIR] fonts-urw-base35" [High,New] | 14:07 |
| cpaelzer | didrocks: you said you can't do so and pinged others | 14:07 |
| cpaelzer | has this happened? | 14:07 |
| didrocks | yes | 14:07 |
| didrocks | desktop-packages is sub | 14:07 |
| joeubuntu | sorry all, late to the meeting. | 14:07 |
| cpaelzer | Then this is ready for promotion @didrocks | 14:08 |
| didrocks | will do after this meeting | 14:08 |
| cpaelzer | I updated the bug accordingly | 14:08 |
| doko | I'll forward apport/terminator to foundations | 14:09 |
| cpaelzer | there are two more in te new MIR queue | 14:09 |
| doko | and doing the licensecheck ones | 14:09 |
| cpaelzer | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&assignee_option=none&field.assignee=&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir | 14:09 |
| cpaelzer | telp / amtk - has anyone context on those? | 14:09 |
| didrocks | I don’t but I’ll handle it | 14:10 |
| doko | gedit | 14:10 |
| didrocks | them* | 14:10 |
| cpaelzer | thanks didrocks, IÄll assign you ont he bugs then | 14:11 |
| didrocks | thx | 14:11 |
| cpaelzer | Lets also look at the recently modified incomplete | 14:11 |
| doko | so the open one is cinder/python-tabulate | 14:11 |
| cpaelzer | whiel I fetch the Link I think Laney wanted to talk about something | 14:11 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: around? | 14:11 |
| cpaelzer | incomplete MIRs | 14:12 |
| cpaelzer | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir | 14:12 |
| cpaelzer | jeepeney was done alst week and needs no further action for now | 14:12 |
| doko | this list is long | 14:12 |
| cpaelzer | they don't auto-expire | 14:13 |
| cpaelzer | doko: therefore - we only look at the last touched | 14:13 |
| cpaelzer | although when in Frankfurt on the sprint we could clear out the past if all us want to do so | 14:13 |
| cpaelzer | should be a quick everyone-nods-and-set-invalid pass | 14:13 |
| cpaelzer | ec2-instance-connect still is disliked by me and security | 14:13 |
| cpaelzer | but I know rbalint is working on it | 14:14 |
| cpaelzer | anyone haveing any other MIRish topic to discuss ? | 14:14 |
| didrocks | nothing here | 14:15 |
| doko | jamespage: still here? | 14:15 |
| jamespage | yep | 14:15 |
| jamespage | sorry - multi-tasking never helps == multi-failing | 14:16 |
| jamespage | I think there was one new security MIR added to the queue for joeubuntu's team | 14:16 |
| jamespage | in the last week - masakari | 14:16 |
| doko | filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tabulate/+bug/1862773 | 14:17 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1862773 in python-tabulate (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-tabulate (dependency of cinder)" [High,Incomplete] | 14:17 |
| doko | joeubuntu: ^^^ | 14:17 |
| jamespage | masakari is in the backlog on the security team trello so its in the queue | 14:18 |
| jamespage | thanks | 14:18 |
| jamespage | doko: coreycb or I will pickup completion of that MIR for tabulate | 14:19 |
| joeubuntu | IT's on the list, thanks doko | 14:19 |
| doko | ta | 14:19 |
| doko | anything else? | 14:19 |
| cpaelzer | I think we are good | 14:19 |
| cpaelzer | as I said Laney had some question | 14:19 |
| cpaelzer | but I don't know which one, only that didrocks and I said plese get to the IRC meeting to talk about it | 14:20 |
| cpaelzer | didrocks: do you know what it was about? | 14:20 |
| didrocks | I don't at all | 14:21 |
| didrocks | we have our desktop meeting in 10 min, so he should soon be around | 14:21 |
| cpaelzer | hmm later/next time then | 14:21 |
| cpaelzer | oh that is good | 14:21 |
| cpaelzer | Oh FYI I won't be here next week (PTO) | 14:22 |
| doko | see you, bye | 14:22 |
| cpaelzer | cu | 14:22 |
| didrocks | enjoy cpaelzer :) | 14:22 |
| didrocks | doko: just to be clear: I’ll let you handle alsa-lib dep with the kernel team if you don’t mind | 14:25 |
| doko | didrocks: to be clear, doing adminstrative work on a MIR doesn't have to be done just be me | 14:29 |
| doko | now https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-ucm-conf/+bug/1862776 | 14:29 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1862776 in alsa-ucm-conf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] alsa-ucm-conf & alsa-topology-conf (b-d of alsa-lib)" [High,Incomplete] | 14:29 |
| didrocks | I don’t think filing an empty MIR really helps in moving the discussion forward with the people who need to deal with it, but probably material for discussing in Frankfurt | 14:31 |
| Laney | back here | 14:32 |
| Laney | is the meeting still going obn? | 14:32 |
| didrocks | it's done | 14:32 |
| Laney | meh | 14:33 |
| didrocks | but I guess you can write here, people seem still being around | 14:33 |
| cpaelzer | yep | 14:33 |
| Laney | it's not on the fridge calendar btw | 14:33 |
| Laney | yeah ok, so there's a project going on at the minute with some of us @ canonical | 14:34 |
| Laney | basically the goal is to make the oem enablement tweaks that some hardware requires, and comes with when you buy it with ubuntu pre-loaded, also available if you buy with another OS and install Ubuntu yourself | 14:34 |
| Laney | essentially requires defining extra packages to install for different hardware | 14:35 |
| cpaelzer | doko: jamespage: joeubuntu: ^^ highlight to make you come back to the meeting :-) | 14:35 |
| Laney | we're going to do this by including metapackages on the iso that declare what they're compatibile with, and dynamically installing them | 14:35 |
| Laney | now "on the iso" implies "in main" | 14:35 |
| Laney | and "package*s*" implies many | 14:35 |
| Laney | so I'm coming to you to try to work out an exception for this | 14:36 |
| cpaelzer | This sounds familiar, did you bring that up on the last engineering sprint already? | 14:36 |
| Laney | I did write up a draft here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MIRTeam/Exceptions/OEM | 14:36 |
| Laney | yes | 14:36 |
| Laney | the idea is that packages which fit that draft can go in without MIR | 14:36 |
| cpaelzer | great, the exception is what I'd have asked for | 14:36 |
| * cpaelzer reading ... | 14:36 | |
| cpaelzer | so the real content is in an extra apt archive | 14:38 |
| cpaelzer | and this is really just abotu the meta-packages to go onto the iso | 14:38 |
| cpaelzer | that was unclear last time we talked, thanks for adding the link on the wiki page | 14:38 |
| Laney | more or less, and that part is being considered by the TB | 14:39 |
| Laney | the meta pkgs themselves are super trivial | 14:39 |
| didrocks | how many of those packages per release do you expect to see during a release life? | 14:39 |
| Laney | no idea | 14:40 |
| Laney | that all depends on how many laptops are enabled which is a bit beyond my field of view | 14:40 |
| Laney | but you could say several | 14:40 |
| didrocks | wondering as well about the burden on the SRU team, but that’s another topic (to see if the mechanism is realistic) | 14:41 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: I know it was only an idea back then when we talked - but is there any chance to get a linter-script for these rules ont that wiki page? | 14:41 |
| didrocks | anyway, if we expect several, I think we should have an automated checker for them | 14:41 |
| cpaelzer | the AAs could use that to verify that the package follows the rules before promotions | 14:41 |
| didrocks | exactly :) | 14:41 |
| cpaelzer | hehe, same thoughts it seems | 14:41 |
| Laney | explain more | 14:41 |
| Laney | please | 14:41 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: I think the definitions on the page are good | 14:41 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: the next step would be writing and attaching a script of some sort | 14:42 |
| Laney | I don't really have weeks to spend writing a script | 14:42 |
| Laney | or days even | 14:42 |
| Laney | so if that blocks this, it might do so for some time | 14:42 |
| cpaelzer | well, if we don't have such a thing the AAs will ahve to manually check against the defnitions ont his page | 14:42 |
| cpaelzer | which can work, but is error prone as we all know | 14:43 |
| cpaelzer | and it scales wit hthe number of packages that will go this path | 14:43 |
| didrocks | and can consume even more time depending on how many packages we are talking about (which we should know before starting this) | 14:43 |
| didrocks | I guess the OEM team can give some estimation | 14:43 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: IMHO it will not stall the approval of this approach to not (yet) have this script | 14:44 |
| cpaelzer | But once the actual "please promote on the base of this" happens | 14:44 |
| cpaelzer | then having one will make it fast | 14:44 |
| cpaelzer | and lacking that checker will make it slow and the AAs grumpy | 14:44 |
| Laney | ok I can put it on the list, but I have to deliver the project itself as a higher priority, hope you understand | 14:45 |
| cpaelzer | absolutely | 14:45 |
| didrocks | I think it can be seem as a broken record, but I would really like to have at least have a guess estimate of the number of packages we are talking about | 14:46 |
| Laney | didrocks: can you explain the background behind your request? | 14:46 |
| Laney | if it's 10, you prefer to review them all manually? | 14:46 |
| Laney | but 15 not? | 14:46 |
| didrocks | I guess 10 is indeed ok, but if it’s 30, the script should be mandatory before we start such a process | 14:47 |
| Laney | it's an interesting one | 14:47 |
| didrocks | as AA will likely spend more time and it will be more error-prone | 14:47 |
| Laney | if you decline this exception then it is the *MIR* team that gets more work | 14:48 |
| juliank | It's not that hard to have one package as a reference, and then run debdiff against any new ones, though | 14:48 |
| Laney | I'm interested because it saves me paperwork, but you should be because it saves you MIRs to review | 14:48 |
| juliank | And that provides a reasonable review base, I'd guess | 14:48 |
| cpaelzer | that is a simple approach to such a helper script | 14:48 |
| cpaelzer | good hint juliank | 14:48 |
| didrocks | I’m more thinking about MIR/AA/SRU in general, and not not caring just to deliver but giving the load to others | 14:48 |
| Laney | I'm saying the difference between declining until I write a script and approving without the script isn't that great | 14:49 |
| Laney | it's the addition of some paperwork | 14:49 |
| Laney | but if debdiffing some template is OK, ... | 14:49 |
| didrocks | which will back-pressure all parties to have a script | 14:49 |
| didrocks | or it will never happen because life and next projects… | 14:50 |
| juliank | "debdiff <first .dsc> <new .dsc> | filterdiff -p1 -x debian/changelog -x debian/modaliases" should be enough of a script | 14:50 |
| didrocks | yep | 14:50 |
| Laney | seriously? | 14:50 |
| joeubuntu | This sounds like a method to just get around MIRs, will the packages that get installed be supported for 10 years? | 14:50 |
| Laney | it is a method to get around MIRs | 14:51 |
| Laney | they'll be supported for the life of the release yes | 14:51 |
| Laney | get around in the sense that doing MIRs will be extremely repetitive | 14:51 |
| joeubuntu | But the burden of support isn't any lower, shouldn't we do some validation of the packages supportability? | 14:52 |
| cpaelzer | joeubuntu: the packages will have no "active" content | 14:52 |
| cpaelzer | joeubuntu: we essentially do the validation on the template | 14:53 |
| cpaelzer | and then based on that provide a fast path as long as that pattern is matched | 14:53 |
| joeubuntu | OK, that makes sense. | 14:53 |
| joeubuntu | Thanks | 14:53 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: please correct me if your plan changed from what I barely remember from half a year ago :-) | 14:53 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: maybe the words in the last few messages here could be added to the wiki | 14:54 |
| Laney | no that's it | 14:54 |
| cpaelzer | it seems they help to calrify | 14:54 |
| Laney | so that debdiff thing, that is ok for a script for you? | 14:54 |
| Laney | I can upload a 'good' template somewhere and then just add that to the page ... | 14:54 |
| cpaelzer | yeah, if you attach the files needed and how to invoke to the wiki that should be ok | 14:54 |
| didrocks | I think so, just wrap it in an helper for the AA and that’s fine | 14:55 |
| cpaelzer | a repo somewhere and a link to it from the wiki might be even better than an attachment | 14:55 |
| didrocks | I would really put that in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools | 14:55 |
| cpaelzer | didrocks: weren't there a aa-helper repository somewhere? | 14:55 |
| cpaelzer | yes that is what i was looking for | 14:55 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: would that work for you (not stalling you too much) but giving you what you need? | 14:55 |
| Laney | I thought you wanted an actual static verifier, but this should be ok if you don't mind | 14:56 |
| cpaelzer | we are all reasonable people, in a perfect world there would be a super-duper-verifier - but this seems to work | 14:57 |
| cpaelzer | if it turns out it does not it will slow down the AAs and thereby your packages from promotion | 14:57 |
| didrocks | and all packages will have a very strong testsuite in them :p and and and… :) | 14:57 |
| cpaelzer | but I think this will be good | 14:57 |
| juliank | Oh, test suite | 14:57 |
| didrocks | ahah | 14:57 |
| cpaelzer | Laney: would you ping me once you updated the wiki/repo please? | 14:57 |
| juliank | It would be nice to have autopkgtest that installs it and run apt update I guess to ensure there's no typos in the .list entry | 14:58 |
| cpaelzer | we lack the people to "sign-off" on this atm, but I can send a mail to the MIR team then | 14:58 |
| Laney | cpaelzer: ok, I will do, thanks | 14:58 |
| * Laney ignores juliank trying to load more work onto this | 14:58 | |
| cpaelzer | juliank: good suggestion | 14:58 |
| cpaelzer | lets add it only as a bonus-objective to avoid the anger of Laney | 14:58 |
| didrocks | heh | 14:59 |
| Laney | if you're being cool you'd do it with autodep8 | 14:59 |
| Laney | and *that* would be the static verifier | 14:59 |
| * Laney runs | 14:59 | |
| juliank | Oh yeah, I should write an autodep8 module for verifying packages which install sources.list entries | 14:59 |
| didrocks | yeah, but nothing ensures you that in the long run, the repo is still valid | 14:59 |
| didrocks | and have needed packages | 15:00 |
| didrocks | but anyway, let’s move on :) | 15:00 |
| didrocks | (or you need regularly running autodep8, which in the end is a jenkins-like solution with reporting and so on…) | 15:00 |
| Laney | funny thing but juliank is at some point in our lives going to work on something similar to that | 15:06 |
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