[01:20] <Psi-Jack> From #ubuntu to here, by suggestion: Hmmm, this is frustratingly silly. Why when I search for a package, like devilspie, in the Software Store app, it finds nothing, but apt search devilspie, it finds both devilspie and devilspie2? I'm curious why some CLI tools are not listed... To me, that's a serious limitation that should not exist. :/
[01:21] <donofrio> I am glad I lurk in these channels ;)
[01:21] <Psi-Jack> hehe
[01:21] <pragmaticenigma> It's probably more to do with no one has built a info doc for the software that is suitable for the Software Center
[01:22] <donofrio> why is that imported from normal descriptions from apt packages?
[01:22] <donofrio> doesn't sound like new info just nor in the same place info?
[01:22] <donofrio> nor = not
[01:22]  * Psi-Jack blinks.
[01:22] <Psi-Jack> Exactly....
[01:23] <donofrio> I lurk always, back to mute for me....
[01:23] <pragmaticenigma> I've never seen anything that would indicate a filter before... it's possible a whitelist or some sort of curation exists for the software center
[01:24] <Psi-Jack> Well, that.. If it exists, is even worse.
[01:24] <Psi-Jack> To be honest, Why would you even do that? LOL
[01:25] <pragmaticenigma> could just be software center trying to help prevent someone from corrupting their system by installing something they don't understand
[01:25] <donofrio> bahahahahh - sorry I'm suppose to be lurking but......
[01:25]  * Psi-Jack sighs.
[01:25] <Psi-Jack> This doesn't happen in the Gnome Software Center....
[01:25] <Psi-Jack> Just Ubuntu's specific alterations of it.
[01:25] <donofrio> that is like trying to save someone from rm -r /*.*
[01:26] <donofrio> ubuntu is bigger than gnome?
[01:26] <pragmaticenigma> Answer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1579415
[01:26] <pragmaticenigma> gnome-software is meant to list graphical softwares only, technical items like samba are for more technical users and can be installed from the command line or synaptic
[01:27] <pragmaticenigma> substitute devilspie for samba
[01:27] <pragmaticenigma> and you have your answer
[01:27] <leftyfb> Psi-Jack: there's 145399 packages available on my system. I don't think a local search tool that uses cached information should index all of those. Do you really want every single library popping up when you search for "python"?
[01:27] <donofrio> "I'd buy that for a dollar."
[01:28] <leftyfb> 7606 packages come up in my search for "python". That would be downright stupid to show in a GUI
[01:30] <donofrio> https://www.nuget.org/packages?q=python
[01:31] <donofrio> sorry I run both w10 and ubuntu at the same time - wsl1 - tinyurl.com/donofrioworkremmina2020 = ppt and build guides with photo's of my daily driver at work
[01:31] <Psi-Jack> leftyfb: YES!
[01:31] <Psi-Jack> Yes I do!
[01:31] <Psi-Jack> What point is it to have it if not to provide it?
[01:32] <Psi-Jack> I mean, Synapse (used to/still does?) show that, and it did it just fine1
[01:32] <donofrio> synaptic you mean
[01:32] <Psi-Jack> Yes, synaptic. :)
[01:33] <donofrio> :P
[01:33] <pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack, and you would be the target audience for such an application... Ubuntu is trying to appeal to a far greater audience than the technically minded
[01:33] <Psi-Jack> I haven't used Ubuntu in forever ago (because Unity). heh
[01:33] <donofrio> ^^^ he's got a point but I also see psi's point
[01:34] <donofrio> opps I menat pragmaticenigma
[01:34] <Psi-Jack> Yeah. I mean, Gnome Software Center, on Fedora, shows all. Ubuntu's alterations, filters. Why?
[01:34] <donofrio> ubuntu trying tto be in the living rooms like everywhere windows is - I see th eepoint
[01:34] <pragmaticenigma> I didn't see anything... cygwin made a booboo
[01:34]  * Psi-Jack cringes at the mention of cygwin.
[01:34] <donofrio> I used cygwin for years
[01:35] <donofrio> hence why I love wsl1 wsl2 blows it's just a vmware loopback filesystem
[01:35] <Psi-Jack> Heh
[01:35] <donofrio> now liek wsl1 where even sccom can index my homedir in uubuntu
[01:35] <Psi-Jack> I'd go off on a tangent on that, too, but.. It wouldn't be topical. :)
[01:35] <donofrio> I'm probably 1 of 10k people who live in xfce4 daily for work
[01:36] <donofrio> in windows 10
[01:36] <donofrio> I have all mmy hosts (265 hosts) in remmina and I rdp/ssh from ubuntu inside w10 ;)
[01:37] <leftyfb> I'm looking forward to wsl2. It'll be an actual linux kernel
[01:38] <donofrio> bah unneeded at least I've been content with usermode living....
[01:38] <pragmaticenigma> neither is crying about a software package isn't appearing in software center.. .yet here we are Psi-Jack
[01:38] <Psi-Jack> Heh. I work for a company that... While nice, uses XenDesktop & XenApps. Limitations are that you have to have spepcifically supported distros, and even then it's not... flawless. Or macOS which I bought a MacBook Pro just for work. :)
[01:39] <donofrio> bah mac hardware over priced lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUEwz4qCNqw
[01:39] <daftykins> price is very much not the major issue with their kit ;)
[01:39] <Psi-Jack> It is.
[01:39] <pragmaticenigma> I would like to abandon cygwin but it has several things going for it beyond wsl... starting with it doesn't require me to "install" anything... If I want to take it off my system I just delete a directory
[01:39] <Psi-Jack> But, they have excellent software support where it can matter, professionally-wise. :)
[01:39] <Psi-Jack> And... It's not Windows. That's important!(tm)(c)
[01:40] <daftykins> no it really isn't
[01:40] <daftykins> :)
[01:40] <Psi-Jack> For me it is. Personal choice, I don't want Windows.
[01:40] <donofrio> pragmaticenigma, cygwin is dead, at least to me....I lived it and do not miss it.... apt-get is apt-get why do I need to run install to  remove software lol
[01:40] <pragmaticenigma> I believe in using the right tool for the job... trying to use a hammer to drive a screw doesn't make sense.. Sure, you will get the screw into the board, but it ain't going to look as pretty as if you had used the screwdriver
[01:41] <donofrio> Psi-Jack, my corp has network lockdown, if not windows you get non-roted ip address
[01:41] <Psi-Jack> Mine does something completely different as mentioned. XenDesktop. You get a Windows 10 Xen Desktop to remote into. Heh
[01:41] <donofrio> this was only way without manager/whitelisting host tto run linux, then they come ask you to enable corp passwd policies and hostane and arrgh simpler just to use windows 10 as a 10 gb bootloader - lol
[01:42] <pragmaticenigma> I leverage software for it's stengths... not because it is opensourced, or free, or GNU, or closed sorce, or made by a particular company
[01:42] <Psi-Jack> pragmaticenigma: Same!
[01:43] <pragmaticenigma> Psi-Jack, You just said something to the contradictary ...
[01:43] <Psi-Jack> Except, I am extremely Microsoft anti-biased, these days, but I do still use some, specific, software by Microsoft, such as vscode.
[01:43] <Psi-Jack> pragmaticenigma: Vaguely, yes, I said something that would seem contradictary. :)
[01:48] <Psi-Jack> I actually think Microsoft has made a lot of needed improvements to Windows 10, while still, keeping a BSoD that i was able to experience many times over on a brand new computer. All they added was a textual smiley face.
[01:48] <Psi-Jack> hehe
[01:49] <Psi-Jack> Or, frownie face even.
[01:49] <donofrio> I've not had a bsod in five yearrs
[01:49] <donofrio> you've got flackie hardware if your getting that, guessing
[01:50] <Psi-Jack> Very likely. I ended up returning the laptop.
[01:58] <Psi-Jack> Well, this was a wierd solution to a problem I was having. RamboxPro, from snaps, was failing to start because it wanted to access {Documents,Downloads,Music,Pictures,Public,Templates,Videos} in $HOME. Mine, of all those, were symlinks to ../../mnt/storage/$USER/$name, because /mnt/storage is a spinning disk with high capacity, while $HOME is NVMe.
[01:58] <Psi-Jack> The solution? Make bind mounts for all those directories, specifically, to /mnt/storage/$USER/$name
[02:02] <sarnold> ugh. I'm still annoyed snap folks haven't set that up yet.
[02:03] <Psi-Jack> Me, too.... As I'm reeming them directly for it. :)
[02:03] <Psi-Jack> "The preferred method is to go out of your way to stupidly bind mount everything into $HOME....."
[02:04] <sarnold> you could probably also use an apparmor alias rule
[02:04] <donofrio> I never use snaps, feels like not apt packkages....
[02:04] <Psi-Jack> Hmmmm
[02:04] <Psi-Jack> Its not necessarily an alias, though, so much as an additional path to include.
[02:05] <Psi-Jack> My $HOME is NVMe, so I don't want /everything in there. /mnt/storage is a SATA high-capacity spinning disk. So perfect for... Storage, without the need for high speed access.
[02:05] <sarnold> an apparmor alias rule just tells apparmor to double or triple the rules as they are compiled -- see /etc/apparmor.d/tunables/alias
[02:06] <sarnold> I don't know if snap's policy framework uses that file or not, but since users like to move their data around, they really *should* use that file
[02:10] <Psi-Jack> Hmmm. That's.. An interesting idea.
[02:11] <Psi-Jack> however, is that really an alias? I'm not strongly familiar with AppArmor. More so familiar with SELinux.
[02:14] <sarnold> yeah; if you have an alias rule like alias /home/psi/ -> /mnt/psi/,   the apparmor_parser will create versions of every rule with /home/psi/ in them and make versions of the rules with /mnt/psi/
[02:14] <Psi-Jack> So it would essentially make like clones, allowing both in the same context, basically?
[02:15] <pragmaticenigma> just wait till you we get "homed" or "systemd-homed" or whatever they're calling it
[02:15] <pragmaticenigma> should be really interesting good time
[02:15]  * Psi-Jack tilts his head.
[02:16] <Psi-Jack> ooooh.. but, I don't migrate my whole home directory, just parts of it.
[02:16] <pragmaticenigma> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=systemd-homed
[02:16] <donofrio> I look at alias as crutches, and they may not be there on another host
[02:16] <sarnold> yeah, but the alias rule is just like a textual copy-paste; the one rule ought to be enough, so long as you kept the same structure of directories
[02:17] <pragmaticenigma> I like the idea of making homed fully portable... would be sweet to spin up boxes, and just take a USB drive to any computer and have access
[02:17] <pragmaticenigma> *can't see anything ever going wrong with that*
[02:17] <donofrio> where is our javaos's
[02:17] <sarnold> donofrio: lol
[02:18] <Psi-Jack> What about that java-accelerating hardware? ;)
[02:18] <Psi-Jack> Oh, wait, Sun did actually do that! LOL
[02:19] <donofrio> well we got android....google one day will loose to the  dual lion headed driveway man
[02:19] <Psi-Jack> Wow. systemd in Ubuntu 19.10 is already 242, and systemd-homed is in 245.
[02:19] <donofrio> why not testing 20.04 ;)
[02:19] <donofrio> nextmonth ;)
[02:20] <Psi-Jack> Because I'm waiting for it to be 20.04, when hopefully XenDesktop becomes available for 20.04 officially. hehe
[02:20] <Psi-Jack> It barely works as it is in 19.10. LOL
[02:20] <donofrio> pant, pant,, I'm going to rebuild my wsl1 installs with it....its fine I run on vmware 15 and seem ready to rock
[02:21] <donofrio> it's tthe next LTS version I believe
[02:21] <Psi-Jack> it will be, when released, yes.
[02:22] <Psi-Jack> Though, I think I will try out 20.04 testing in a VM
[02:22] <Psi-Jack> After.. I actually install virtualbox. LOL
[02:34] <donofrio> with vmware player 15 (free) it sees ubuntu and does almost handy off install called 'easy install'
[02:48] <Psi-Jack> Heh, vmware... That's like... Blasphemy to me. :)
[02:54] <Psi-Jack> So, to itterate the absolute stupidity of filtering in the Software Center. virtualbox, shows only Virtualbox, the base package. But doesn't provide the extensions pack, which is needed if you want full USB support. No, tyhat you have to install manually with CLI. That... That is incredibly incredibly stupid. :/
[03:00] <sarnold> not at all -- people who have installed the virtualbox extensions on real hardware usually wind up with a problem that prevents them from starting X or something that's insanely confusing and horrible
[03:02] <Psi-Jack> Umm. Wrong extensions.
[03:03] <Psi-Jack> Not guest extensions. HOST extensions.
[03:03] <Psi-Jack> Specifically, USB passthrough support.
[03:06] <sarnold> oh yeah, that feels like a useful thing to show then :)
[03:06] <Psi-Jack> Exactly!
[03:06] <Psi-Jack> Yet, it's not..... And that's bad.
[03:28] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[05:21] <ducasse> good morning
[07:14] <lordievader> Good morning
[12:22] <Psi-Jack> Good aftermorning.
[12:23] <oerheks> good pre-evening
[12:25] <lotuspsychje> happy easter
[12:28]  * Psi-Jack scratches his head.
[12:29] <jeremy31> Must be a new time zone
[12:29] <lotuspsychje> lol
[12:30] <Psi-Jack> heh. I say "Good aftermorning", in at 10am and 10pm both. :)
[12:36] <Psi-Jack> Ugh... The gnome keyboard, STILL pops up randomly sometimes. :/
[13:58] <Sohom_Datta> Hey, is there a way I can downgrade to the bionic stable version of nautilus on eoan ?
[13:58] <Sohom_Datta> The current bleeding edge version is a bit too unstable and seg faults quite often...
[14:09] <lotuspsychje> !frankenbuntu
[14:09] <lotuspsychje> !mix
[14:10] <lotuspsychje> Sohom_Datta: best to stick with the package versions for your ubuntu release
[14:10] <lotuspsychje> Sohom_Datta: unless you need higher versions, you can try !backports and !snaps
[14:12] <Sohom_Datta> Okay, is there anywhere I can report the nautilus issues ?
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> Sohom_Datta: wich nautilus version do you get problems on?
[14:13] <Sohom_Datta> GNOME nautilus 3.34.1
[14:13] <lotuspsychje> !info nautilus eoan
[14:14] <lotuspsychje> Sohom_Datta: you can join #ubuntu and ask if volunteers can help with your nautilus issue, before you file a bug
[14:15] <Sohom_Datta> Ah okay
[15:08] <pragmaticenigma> donofrio: Set yourself to /umode +g and the problem goes away
[15:09] <donofrio> that is not the point, you have crass people being your visual for help here and that is a bad image is all....regardless of the question...
[15:09] <donofrio> tnx for your followup though....I am able to see certs but only before arora opens the page not once it's open (it seems)
[15:10] <Psi-Jack> That... Doesn't sound like a very useful/good browser. :)
[15:36] <oerheks> there must be something in the air today..
[15:36] <Psi-Jack> heh
[15:36] <Psi-Jack> And it's not even Friday 13, yet.
[15:36] <pragmaticenigma> what do you mean oerheks ?
[15:37] <oerheks> such drama, mishaps, i dunno..
[15:38] <pragmaticenigma> Well, noodles was already told where to go for help... it doesn't help that others keep answering questions after they were told where to go
[15:39] <Psi-Jack> oerheks: Yeah, at some point.... Gnome integrated what was caribou directly into the whole that is Gnome.
[15:39] <oerheks> why is touch not a support thingy?
[15:39] <oerheks> i do not agree, prag
[15:40] <Psi-Jack> Well, "Ubuntu Touch" specifically is ubports.
[15:40] <pragmaticenigma> oerheks: They're not running Ubuntu... that's why it's not a support for #ubuntu
[15:40] <Psi-Jack> Not actual Canonical/Ubuntu.
[15:41] <Psi-Jack> in Faaact.. Looking at it more, it's more for like... Tablets, not even laptops, tabtops, of what marketing calls "convertibles" or "2-in-1".
[15:42] <Psi-Jack> or*
[15:43] <pragmaticenigma> Ubuntu Touch was/is specifically for mobile devices that natively do not have a hardware keyboard
[15:43] <pragmaticenigma> or maybe more specific, are designed to not require a keyboard for their operation
[15:43] <Psi-Jack> Yeah, I'm seeing that.
[15:44] <Psi-Jack> Looked up the Acer Switch as well, and yeah...
[15:44] <pragmaticenigma> Canonical abandoned the project when they abandoned Unity. The market shifted and there isn't enough interest in personal devices
[15:45] <oerheks>  Acer Switch .... 32-bit UEFI ??
[21:04] <Nyle> silent electronics?
[21:04] <Nyle> Did you mean to highlight me?