[09:17] <Chipaca> goood morning peeps
[09:46] <niemeyer> Gooooood day :)
[10:50] <Chipaca> niemeyer: ｇｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｏｄ  ｍｏｒｎｉｎｇ！
[10:56] <Dmitrii-Sh> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11323 - "pod spec" becomes "k8s spec"
[10:57] <Chipaca> nice
[10:57] <Dmitrii-Sh> I think "pod spec" was a confusing term because it wasn't just about pods
[10:57] <Facu> Muy buenos días a todos!
[10:57] <Chipaca> Facu: buen día! no tennis today, right?
[10:58] <Facu> hola Chipaca! nop, I'm quarantined
[10:58] <Chipaca> ok
[10:58] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: Facu: can we have a meet in ~15 minutes?
[10:58] <Facu> Chipaca, sure
[10:59] <Dmitrii-Sh> ack
[10:59] <Chipaca> i've got my manager hat on so beware :-)
[11:13] <Facu> Chipaca, niemeyer, I started this https://docs.google.com/document/d/12dha4GkmjWusAN6cMMZsQKKK-qfpVrvPFw6PRX0wUNA/edit# (so we can collect requirements or discussion items for when we actually talk/decide this)
[11:14] <Facu> Chipaca, I'm ready now! Room 57? ( https://meet.google.com/veq-yfqm-kdk )
[11:16] <Chipaca> Facu: sure
[11:16] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: ^^
[11:16] <Facu> Chipaca, we're there
[12:21] <Chipaca> jam: 👋
[12:21] <jam> Chipaca: Is that the hand-washing emote?
[12:22] <Chipaca> jam: no clearly that's 👐
[12:22] <Chipaca> or maybe 👏
[12:23] <Chipaca> jam: i was pinging you because i'm (experimentally) changing how our standups work
[12:23] <Chipaca> niemeyer: ^ you too, probably, at least for now :-)
[12:23] <Chipaca> jam: there'll be a google doc where you write what you worked on (and maybe what you're hoping to get to); this needs to be written before the standup itself
[12:24] <Chipaca> then at the standup you just call out things that bring up questions, or blockers, or just highlights; the team reads the standup doc after the meeting to catch up with the rest of the detail
[12:24] <Chipaca> jam: this serves three purposes
[12:25] <Chipaca> jam: 1. focus and shorten the standups themselves
[12:25] <Chipaca> jam: 2. feed into a weekly 'whattup with chamrcraft' email
[12:25] <Chipaca> jam: 3. make it less hypercritical to have the standups such that everybody can make them every day
[12:26] <Chipaca> jam: hopefully this makes sense to you
[12:26] <jam> Chipaca: and a google doc vs a trello/kanban/discourse/something else?
[12:26] <Chipaca> jam: a trello exists but it's less detailed than this, yes
[12:26] <jam> Chipaca: I'm fine with it, just have gotten used to other project managementy tools.
[12:27] <Chipaca> our trello: https://trello.com/b/SGgb8v0h/charmcraft
[12:27] <jam> Chipaca: the google doc that I see linked above is https://docs.google.com/document/d/12dha4GkmjWusAN6cMMZsQKKK-qfpVrvPFw6PRX0wUNA/edit which points to "Charm Tool Spec" is there a different doc that I missed?
[12:27] <Chipaca> still nascent, i should add
[12:27] <Chipaca> the standup doc is a different one
[12:27] <Chipaca> Facu: Dmitrii-Sh: jam: niemeyer: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sJQ5-OtK83x2KdePZfp1AC_3FQJrvzXaWFEc_n-4vxY/edit#
[12:28] <Chipaca> Facu: Dmitrii-Sh: if you could read what i just told jam to double-check it (1) matches what we discussed, and (2) i didn't forget anything please :-)
[12:28] <Chipaca> jam: the trello will have doing/.../done lanes but does not have them yet fwiw
[12:29] <Facu> Chipaca, looks fine
[12:30] <Chipaca> jam: i'm still thinking about how best to keep track of some of the things, as quite a bit of at least outreach / library work is not a flow of work
[12:31] <Chipaca> jam: i also brought forward the standup half an hour fwiw (so we won't have Facu on Mondays once quarantine is up, but otherwise should work for all)
[12:32] <jam> Chipaca: everyone is away on Friday? What party day is this?  :)
[12:33] <Chipaca> jam: the feast of St. Arnold of Soissons (patron saint of beer)
[12:33] <Facu> I *may* work on Friday, if PyCamp is cancelled here
[12:33] <Chipaca> jam: i asked for holiday because i was going to run in lisbon :'(
[12:34] <Facu> Chipaca, run in lisbon?
[12:35] <Chipaca> Facu: lisboa meia maratona
[12:35] <jam> Wikipedia says the Feast is August 14, are you just trying to get a day of for extra beer? :)
[12:35] <Facu> oh
[12:35] <jam> Chipaca: you were running from Friday through Monday? That is true dedication
[12:36] <Chipaca> well, some tourism was also planned
[12:37] <Chipaca> jam: wrt the feast, maybe we're observing it on the orthodox calendar
[12:37] <jam> Chipaca: I thought you were just running to Lisbon and back.
[12:38] <jam> https://www.google.com/maps/dir/London,+UK/Lisbon,+Portugal/@44.7763435,-13.6239022,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x47d8a00baf21de75:0x52963a5addd52a99!2m2!1d-0.1277583!2d51.5073509!1m5!1m1!1s0xd19331a61e4f33b:0x400ebbde49036d0!2m2!1d-9.1393366!2d38.7222524!3e2
[12:38] <jam> says its about 375hrs
[12:38] <jam> but you're running, not walking, right?
[12:57] <jam> Chipaca: I also don't have edit rights to the doc where you want me writing what I've been up to :)
[12:57] <Chipaca> fixing...
[12:57] <Chipaca> jam: please reload
[13:02] <jam> Chipaca: fixed. thanks. Is the intent to have 10min standups/ break other discussions out of it?
[13:04] <Chipaca> jam: that route cheats because it puts you on a ferry, that's non-canon
[13:04] <Chipaca> jam: i am not too religious about it, in that i'm ok with a little discussion happening in the standup, but as soon as it gets rambly yes it should break out
[13:07] <Chipaca> jam: some research is still needed on the subject of pontoon running shoes
[13:07] <Chipaca> and at what point are you just standing on a boat
[13:07] <jam> Chipaca: when you hook up outboard motors on the back ?
[13:09] <Chipaca> jam: maybe it should be a venetian bicycle and call it a biathlon
[13:09] <Chipaca> or, swimming, but i suck at swimming
[13:09]  * Chipaca also sucks at running
[13:09] <Chipaca> ignore that last comment, it was from my knee
[13:18] <Facu> Chipaca, can not edit the doc
[13:18] <Chipaca> Facu: reload?
[13:18] <Chipaca> Facu: or use your canonical acct
[13:19] <Facu> Chipaca, reloaded, thanks
[13:19] <Chipaca> Facu: also, https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/among-the-sierra-nevada-california/IQE1CY9y_Rfy5A
[13:20] <Facu> Chipaca, nice! the author removed the AT-AT! :p
[13:23] <Chipaca> Facu: it was shrouded by the revisionists
[13:23] <Facu> jeje
[13:31] <Chipaca> jam: standup?
[13:31] <jam> yep, just getting out of my last one
[13:59] <Chipaca> 10 events, sitting in a queue
[14:29] <Chipaca> we're getting better! that was only double the lenght it should've bene :-|
[14:29] <Chipaca> been*
[14:29] <niemeyer> Sorry... /o\
[14:31] <Chipaca> niemeyer: we'll get there :-)
[14:37] <Facu> niemeyer, where do you propose to start piling examples? (my only suggestion is that this shouldn't be too public, so far, until we have some APIs more stable)
[14:38] <niemeyer> Facu: Best thing I can think of right now is a repository under canonical/ with "examples" or "samples"  as part of the name, and one example per subdir
[14:38] <niemeyer> Facu: WE might then take PRs on that
[14:38] <niemeyer> Facu: That's just one idea though
[14:39] <Facu> niemeyer, ack
[14:52] <Chipaca> niemeyer: Facu: how about an 'examples' branch in operator itself?
[14:55] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: WRT gnuoy and the ceph-iscsi charm, what he needs is a check that he's using the framework in a sensible way (and not a line-by-line python code review)
[14:56] <Dmitrii-Sh> ok
[14:57] <Chipaca> niemeyer: how're you for meetings? can i make your life worse in that sense
[15:11] <niemeyer> Chipaca: On a call but can do shortly
[15:21]  * Facu -> lunch
[16:14] <Dmitrii-Sh> Facu: does that right any bell?
[16:14] <Dmitrii-Sh> charm push ./ cs:~dmitriis/nats
[16:14] <Dmitrii-Sh> ERROR cannot post archive: cannot put archive blob: failed to PUT object 3701adfe8af7ba58-3c2ab4da9ad292fc from container charmstore-blobs
[16:14] <Dmitrii-Sh> caused by: failed executing the request http://10.24.0.23:8080/v1/AUTH_acf64c68bc7349c98dec46b7e0e72d9f/charmstore-blobs/3701adfe8af7ba58-3c2ab4da9ad292fc
[16:14] <Dmitrii-Sh> caused by: Put http://10.24.0.23:8080/v1/AUTH_acf64c68bc7349c98dec46b7e0e72d9f/charmstore-blobs/3701adfe8af7ba58-3c2ab4da9ad292fc: read tcp 10.25.10.42:51284->10.24.0.23:8080: read: connection reset by peer
[16:15] <Dmitrii-Sh> It succeeded after I retried
[16:15] <Facu> Dmitrii-Sh, let me see
[16:16] <Facu> Dmitrii-Sh, no clue anyway... that's the old charmstore?
[16:16] <Dmitrii-Sh> yes
[16:21] <Facu> ah, don't know much about its infrastructure
[16:21] <Facu> sorry
[16:22] <Dmitrii-Sh> Chipaca: Apparently, there is no way to install and disable a snap. So the race condition I was after was because of the following sequence:
[16:22] <Dmitrii-Sh> 1) snap got installed;
[16:22] <Dmitrii-Sh> 2) systemd service start attempts by snapd followed that before a config was rendered by a charm;
[16:22] <Dmitrii-Sh> 3) the charm then rendered the config but a `systemctl service start <service>` made by it then failed once. It then succeeded on a retry.
[16:23] <Dmitrii-Sh> Facu: ok, np
[16:24] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: i'm not sure i understand what you mean
[16:24] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: snaps can ship services that are disabled until they are configured
[16:24] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: snap services can be disabled after installing the snap, but there is no way to say 'install this but disable the services'
[16:25] <Chipaca> maybe that's what you mean
[16:25] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: what is the snap?
[16:25] <Dmitrii-Sh> Chipaca: yes, maybe this is a bug of a particular snap - services shouldn't be started before a config is supplied from an external entity (the charm in this case).
[16:26] <Dmitrii-Sh> and, yes, there's no 'install --disable'
[16:26] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: as a blanket assertion that is false
[16:26] <Chipaca> "services shouldn't be started before a config is supplied" is false, i mean, in general
[16:26] <Dmitrii-Sh> Chipaca: it's the nats snap created by the Anbox team
[16:26] <Chipaca> it is perfectly possible to ship a service that works without a config
[16:26] <Chipaca> if it does need a config, then its install hook should disable the services until that config is provided
[16:27] <Chipaca> easy to do
[16:27] <Dmitrii-Sh> Chipaca: yes, in this particular case it didn't make sense to start it before config is available.
[16:27] <Dmitrii-Sh> and the fix was to do snap stop nats --disable on install
[16:27] <Dmitrii-Sh> and then start --enable after the config was renderd
[16:27] <Dmitrii-Sh> rendered*
[16:30] <Chipaca> Dmitrii-Sh: the real fix is for the snap's install hook to do 'snapctl stop --disable' itself
[16:37] <Dmitrii-Sh> ok, I'll suggest that to Simon
[16:43] <Facu> Chipaca, do we want or not to have copyright header in otherwise empty files? (`__init__.py`)
[16:43] <Chipaca> Facu: nope
[16:43] <Facu> ack
[16:43] <Chipaca> Facu: that's why the previous checker explicitly ignored empty files
[16:43] <Facu> -not -empty
[16:43] <Facu> nice
[16:44] <Facu> `find` is so complex
[16:44] <Chipaca> tbf the -type f should be the first predicate, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[16:55] <niemeyer> Chipaca: SOrry, left one to join another.. I'm available now.. how're things there?
[17:43] <Dmitrii-Sh> Got another person asking me about how to easily retrieve pod fqdns and expose them to a different app without relying on ingress-address == cluster-ip https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1867168
[17:43] <Dmitrii-Sh> seems like this will be a common theme for stateful apps that use headless services in K8s https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/services-networking/service/#headless-services
[18:06] <Facu> Moved all tests to unit tests, removed Makefile, improved README for dependencies and how to test: https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/184
[18:07] <Chipaca> niemeyer: and I'd stepped out to get some sunlight
[18:09] <Chipaca> niemeyer: i need to get dinner started, but it's not a 100%-of-my-concentration thing once i've kicked it off so we can probably chat while i do it, if that works for you -- ping me on signal or tg if it works for you too
[18:09]  * Chipaca will probably be able to work fine with 9 fingers after all
[18:11] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Sounds dangerous :)
[18:11] <niemeyer> We can do it tomorrow
[19:13] <Facu> if I do juju status, I see for postgresql/0:  Workload=active    Agent=idle
[19:14] <Facu> for my-super-charm the Agent is also idle, but the Workload is in "unknown" state... is this ok? there's something charm side that should change that?
[20:36]  * Facu eods
[20:36] <Chipaca> Facu: 👋
[20:36] <Chipaca> Facu: have a good one