[00:21] <cmaloney> Yes
[03:40] <greg-g> a surprise rick_h_! I was just mentioning your trailer trip here recently and missed you
[03:41] <greg-g> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/19/california-governor-issues-statewide-order-to-stay-at-home-effective-thursday-evening.html
[03:41] <greg-g> all of CA is shelter in place as of tonight
[11:33] <rick_h_> greg-g:  ah howdy. Welcome to lock down city
[13:47] <cmaloney> CHC next week is online again: https://gettogether.community/events/4809/coffee-house-coders-regular-meeting/
[13:54] <rick_h_> cmaloney:  cool
[13:54] <cmaloney> Yep. Still going. :)
[17:40] <jrwren> man... i'm writing a tiny bit of python, and I've forgotten so much python and going from Go to python makes me feel that python is just a terrible langauge.
[17:41] <rick_h_> hah
[17:42] <mrgoodcat> try js
[17:44] <jrwren> ugh. no ty.
[17:46]  * cmaloney has a sad because Python is beautiful
[17:46] <jrwren> its probably less python and more the way this particular huge tree data structure is built in python that is my gripe.
[17:46] <cmaloney> but yeah, Python Unicode is really a mess
[17:47] <cmaloney> even with 3 it's still more than I care to think about stuff
[17:47] <jrwren> hasattr(python, "beautiful") returns false, bro.
[17:47] <cmaloney> try the same with go
[17:47] <cmaloney> pretty sure it'll do the same
[17:48] <jrwren> lol.
[17:48] <jrwren> nope, Go simply won't compile.
[17:49] <cmaloney> See? Failing silently is a good thing.
[17:50] <jrwren> hahahaha
[17:51] <jrwren> explains some silently failing apps that I know are python... like launchpad ;)
[17:53] <cmaloney> Yeah, I'll grant you that. Python is not great with bad data
[17:53] <cmaloney> like Launchpad. ;)
[17:53] <cmaloney> Too many times I've had something like this
[17:53] <cmaloney> if condition:
[17:54] <cmaloney> if condition is not None and condition:
[17:54] <cmaloney> if condition is not None and condition is True:
[17:56] <cmaloney> if condition is not none and isinstance(condition, (bool)):
[17:56] <cmaloney> etc.
[18:26] <mrgoodcat> in js you simply have if (typeof condition [18:26] <mrgoodcat> ~beautiful~
[18:29] <cmaloney> in JS you just give up all hope
[18:29] <cmaloney> and hide console.log
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> hide console.log?
[18:39] <mrgoodcat> behind a logging framework you mean?
[18:43] <cmaloney> just in general. No more warnings. ;)
[18:43]  * cmaloney is being facetious
[19:17] <jrwren> um... triple equals isn't type equality in js, so...
[19:17] <jrwren> or is it?
[19:17] <cmaloney> It's place-in-memory equality (is how I remember it)
[19:19] <cmaloney> which is technically incorrect, obviously
[19:19] <cmaloney> because I am full of incorrect information
[19:20] <cmaloney> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Equality_comparisons_and_sameness
[19:23] <Scary_Guy> I figure everything is online until further notice.
[19:24] <Scary_Guy> The 2600 group that meets in A2 is doing a telco bridge call-in the first Friday of the month 248-724-2600 (or call in whenever, maybe others will join, the bot mentions it in IRC when someone does)
[19:26] <Scary_Guy> I came up with an idea for a Mumble/IRC integration.  Pretty sure the IRC spec doesn't really allow for that, so the client would need to shadow servers/channels.
[19:27] <jrwren> if "x" in o and o["x"] == foo:  oh python.
[19:28] <cmaloney> jrwren: o.get('x') == foo
[19:28] <jrwren> nope.
[19:28] <jrwren> cmaloney: you wish, but python.
[19:28] <jrwren> i wish too... but python.
[19:28] <cmaloney> no, it works. :)
[19:28] <jrwren> nope.
[19:28] <cmaloney> it'll get X or none
[19:29] <jrwren> KeyError: 'x''
[19:30] <cmaloney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GVXPhJ75g4/
[19:30] <cmaloney> It'll retrieve None if it doesn't exist
[19:30] <cmaloney> which may be a separate issue
[19:30] <jrwren> python2, ordereddict
[19:30] <jrwren> the fact that we are even arguing about it is proof that python isn't very good.
[19:31] <jrwren> I'm about to tell me team that I can't write python.
[19:31] <cmaloney> Well, a) Ordered Dict in Python 2 is no longer supported (Python2)
[19:33] <cmaloney> Also ordereddict should support the same .get syntax
[19:33] <jrwren> i assure you it doesn't.
[19:33] <cmaloney> though you might need to put .get('x', None)
[19:33] <jrwren> yes, that's probably what I want.
[19:33] <jrwren> still, that is garbage.
[19:33] <jrwren> python is terrible.
[19:33] <jrwren> can I use perl instead?
[19:34] <cmaloney> no, because it's not 2003
[19:34] <cmaloney> Also: what is Perl? :)
[19:35] <cmaloney> Is this ordered dict somehow part of a scraper?
[19:35] <jrwren> no.
[19:35] <jrwren> also, I read what you wrote wrong and you've been right all along.
[19:35] <cmaloney> <3
[19:35] <cmaloney> Python is great
[19:35] <jrwren> no, python is still terrible.
[19:35] <jrwren> i'll be glad to never use it again.
[19:35] <cmaloney> You're allowed to be wrong again
[19:35] <cmaloney> ;)
[19:36] <jrwren> because, how do you do get("",None) for a bool?
[19:36] <jrwren> is None true or false?
[19:36] <jrwren> its all so backwards.
[19:36] <jrwren> not to mention I just don't want to use it now.
[19:36] <jrwren> and what we want is everything.
[19:37] <cmaloney> You can use something other than None
[19:37] <cmaloney> like False
[19:37] <cmaloney> it just defalts to None because None is more correct than False or 0
[19:39] <jrwren> why can't I use Go? ;)
[19:41] <cmaloney> Because you're not an intern at Google? :)
[19:41] <cmaloney> You've got this
[19:41] <jrwren> nope.
[19:41] <cmaloney> Stop fighting it
[19:42] <cmaloney> just let the zen of Python wash over you
[19:42] <jrwren> can't do it.
[19:42] <cmaloney> ooommm
[19:42] <cmaloney> I said OOOM MOFO
[19:42] <jrwren> the zen of python is bullshit compared to the proverbs of go.
[19:42] <jrwren> I graduated python. I wrote plenty of it for years.
[19:42] <jrwren> I've moved beyond it.
[19:42] <cmaloney> You should do it in Rust
[19:42] <jrwren> so far beyond it that I can't even understand it.
[19:42] <rick_h_> jrwren:  has ascended his conciousness
[19:43] <jrwren> ugh rust... i'll keep my garbage collection TYVM
[19:45] <jrwren> i'm just salty cuz I already wrote this in Go, it works, but we haven't rewrote all of it in Go, so I ahve to write it in python too.
[19:45] <jrwren> and I've no idea how to do it.
[19:46] <rick_h_> just needs more metaclasses, and f-strings, and ...
[19:47] <jrwren> ugh.
[19:49] <mrgoodcat> i missed programming language talk :(
[19:51] <jrwren> really more jrwren being grumpy talk
[19:53] <cmaloney> Yes, more jrwren being wrong talk
[19:53] <cmaloney> (I do this from a place of love. :) )
[19:54] <rick_h_> hah
[19:56] <jrwren> python was great for its time.
[19:56] <jrwren> thankfully, its time is gone.
[19:57] <rick_h_> hah