=== cpaelzer__ is now known as cpaelzer === ezri is now known as dax === lool- is now known as lool [18:57] o/ [18:59] o/ [19:00] o/ [19:01] o/ [19:02] Let's start then I guess? [19:02] #startmeeting Developer Membership Board [19:02] Meeting started Mon Mar 23 19:02:55 2020 UTC. The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [19:02] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: [19:03] #topic Review of previous action items === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items [19:03] tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) [19:03] cyphermox to build report for expiry from dev teams (carried over) [19:03] rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html) [19:03] teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj [19:03] mine is done. [19:03] On my action, I will do that soon, now that the new DMB is settled. [19:04] Can someone take over cyphermox's previous action please? [19:04] o/ [19:04] (just now arrived) [19:04] It's related to dealing with requiring expiry of flavour developers without explicit renewal, as requested by the TB, I think? [19:04] Thanks teward! [19:04] I don't see tsimonq2 here. [19:05] Any volunteers for cyphermox's previous action? [19:05] is there any details on what exactly it involves? [19:05] Thanks to teward for blowing up notifications. :P [19:05] Hello. [19:06] ddstreet: if it is what I think it is, it's https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html [19:07] I think there has been some discussion in previous meetings - we'd need to look at IRC logs. [19:07] But as people have changed, I don't think anyone should be held to any previous thoughts we had on this. [19:07] Just that it remains pending for us to implement for the TB> [19:07] . [19:08] tsimonq2: any news on your action please, or should I carry it forward? [19:08] so, that email sounds like all that is being asked is to enable team expiry for the per-flavor teams, is that your understanding also? the action item is talking about 'build report' [19:09] ddstreet: I remember a question (probably from me) on what exactly a "flavor team" is - for example is cloud or server included? [19:09] rbasak: Please do. [19:09] We need a list of them. But otherwise, yes. [19:09] (Carry it forward, that is.) [19:09] #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) [19:09] ACTION: tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) [19:09] rbasak agreed, is that something the TB shoudl answer or is that something for us to define? [19:09] ddstreet: IMHO, the TB wouldn't mind if we just defined it [19:10] I don't remember how that turned into an action for a report [19:10] I'd have to look at old IRC logs [19:10] But IMHO, forget that, let's just get it done if we can find a volunteer. [19:10] ok so we should probably have action item 1) define list of 'flavor teams' and 2) implement membership expiry for those teams [19:10] ddstreet: are you volunteering? :) [19:11] o/ [19:11] so my action was to enable expiry, that's all [19:11] cyphermox o/ hello! [19:11] probably to notify everyone first, because it'll need people to help with setting the expiry when they add people for the delegated teams [19:11] cyphermox did you have a list of specific teams to enable expiry for? [19:12] o/ [19:12] full dmb house! \o/ party time [19:13] ddstreet: *turns on the rave lights and music* :P [19:13] is there any homework left for me ? [19:13] or was it all taken ? [19:13] rbasak i can at least take the action item to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' for review next dmb [19:13] ddstreet: thank you! [19:13] unless rafaeldtinoco wants to take it :) [19:13] no, its yours [19:13] #action ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' [19:13] ACTION: ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' [19:14] rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html) (carried over) [19:14] #info teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj: done [19:14] #topic DMB elections for the expired 2 members === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: DMB elections for the expired 2 members [19:14] #info Elections are now complete [19:14] No applications, so [19:14] #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign [19:15] Looks like these go back quite a way [19:16] Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set [19:16] From 8 Jan [19:16] Expired MOTU membership [19:16] From 17 Feb [19:16] Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main [19:16] From 20 Feb [19:16] Requesting upload rights for ltsp [19:16] From 18 Mar [19:16] That's all the outstanding requests I can see. [19:17] Can I suggest that we nominate one DMB member to look into each, and ask if you need help? [19:17] re: lubuntu-update-notifier I'll take that one, and make sure that gets added to teh packageset - this wwas discussed separately with the Lubuntu Team in the past that this is a reasonable request (at least from me as a coredev) [19:17] i'll take that one [19:17] Thanks [19:17] re: ltsp request, that needs a separate PPU upload IMO [19:17] the request expands BEYOND LTSP when reading it further [19:17] For each one, determine if you can act alone, or if you need the DMB to vote, and if the latter, bring that up next meeting? [19:17] i already dug in LTSP so i'll take that one [19:17] as well [19:18] #action teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" [19:18] ACTION: teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" [19:18] #action teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" [19:18] ACTION: teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" [19:18] Volunteers for the other two please? [19:18] let me have one [19:18] i have an opinion re: the printing rights request [19:18] but i won't take it :p [19:18] rafaeldtinoco: two for the taking :) [19:19] rafaeldtinoco: any preference? :) [19:19] nope [19:19] #action rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" [19:19] ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" [19:19] One more volunteer for the printing request please. [19:19] Does anyone have no action? [19:20] slashd maybe please? [19:20] rbasak: sure [19:20] Thanks! [19:20] #action slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" [19:20] ACTION: slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" [19:21] That's all of them I think. [19:21] Can anyone see anything I've missed? [19:21] FWIW, this is an unusually large number of outstanding requests. Usually there's zero or one. [19:21] i have a few things that as a member of the Studio dev team i want to get into the studio packagesets [19:21] I guess it's just the backlog during the elction etc. [19:22] but that can wait as they have me (as coredev sponsoring contact) on their team so I can handle those uploads for them [19:22] and i really want Eickmeyer (whos PoC on the Studio Dev Team) to request those [19:22] OK [19:22] so just something to keep in mind but no action item needed for now [19:22] if we've moved on to AOB I have one topic to discuss [19:22] The flavor packagesets are "fun". [19:22] They're automatically generated from a script. [19:22] yes they are rbasak xD [19:22] So you can't just add something - you have to modify the script, etc. [19:23] (or, in theory, rerunning the script should suffice, but I'm not sure it's ever been that simple) [19:23] #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names) [19:23] We never did this in the past because attendance was so unreliable. Should we start this now? [19:24] Any objections? [19:24] no objs [19:24] sounds good to me [19:24] If not, tsimonq2 can start by chairing the next meeting as someone has already put together the list and he's first. [19:24] #info tsimonq2 will chair the next meeting [19:24] #topic Any other business === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business [19:24] ddstreet: you're up! [19:25] I wanted to bring up the topic of general team expirations [19:25] Sure, I can chair. :P [19:25] tsimonq2: thanks! [19:25] i know MOTU and coredev, etc. have expirations enabled, but my thought was perhaps we should 'retire' people from coredev/motu/etc after X years of no uploads [19:26] i suspect even people who have no intention of ever uploading again will still click the 'renew' button once every few years when their membership is reaching expiration [19:26] bringing the topic up for thoughts from the dmb [19:26] I'm curious to know what other similar projects do. [19:27] I'm generally for the idea, but I'd like to see a report showing who has rights and who has exercised them [19:27] including PPU rights. [19:27] rbasak similar projects meaning like freedesktop or fedora or github, etc? [19:27] Also, we sometimes get people whose memberships have expired ask for renewal. What do you propose to do if we get such a request after someone gets removed for having no uploads? [19:28] I think we need specifically to look at MOTU and CoreDev and specialized groups separately [19:28] ddstreet: like freedesktop and fedora. Community projects with a large number of "committers". [19:28] if they have a Launchpad group and we expire them from upload rights they aslo need to be removed / deactivated from the team at the same time [19:28] that's an excellent point to consider, i personally would suggest anyone who is expired due to no uploads should re-apply, but it should be a policy (if we do 'retire' people) [19:28] teward i like the report idea, that would be good info to have [19:29] i'm in favor of re-apply idea if we ever start to demote devs [19:29] One thing that has happened recently is some people accidentally expire ("missed the email") so IIRC what we've done that is be fairly lax with readding them. [19:29] rbasak: we could have an acceptable period [19:29] rbasak: With some exceptions, I think we should be more strict on enforcement [19:29] By "lax" I mean just re-add them if it's only been a month or so [19:29] +1 on lax [19:29] or have a 'grace' period where they can be readded BUT have to have evidence of actually using those permissions [19:29] agreed +1 [19:30] yep, maybe if we enable a 'no upload retirement' policy, we could just disable the 'renew' emails [19:30] but we would need a new email sent, saying 'you need to upload' instead of just 'you need to click this button' to stay in the group [19:30] Unfortunately to implement this I think we'd have to write some scripting ourselves [19:30] indeed [19:30] yep [19:30] ok probably no action to take now, but at least we're thinking about it [19:31] The Launchpad membership expiry doesn't stretch far enough for this proposal. To be clear: that's not intended to mean I'm opposed to this. [19:31] OK. Thank you for bringing this up. [19:31] I suggest that to make more progress someone writes a concrete proposal to the ML? [19:31] devel-permissions@ is probably the appropriate venue. [19:31] Any other AOB? [19:31] +1 on proposal, with examples from other communities [19:32] i liked the examples idea [19:32] so we dont reinvent the wheel [19:32] +1 to sending to the ML (with a CC to the developer membership board list as well so it's alos listed htere) [19:32] agreed from me also, as i brought it up i'll first see if i can get a report together as teward suggested [19:33] and then email the list once the report is ready [19:33] rbasak: let's at least assign an action item to ddstreet for now re: getting together a report of: [19:33] ddstreet: i'd write this as a small RFC so we grow it through the mail thread [19:33] ddstreet: do you want that as an action? [19:33] (1) who currently has upload rights, and (2) who has used them or not in the past year+ [19:33] my two cents [19:33] sure yep i'll take the action [19:34] #action ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse [19:34] ACTION: ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse [19:34] Anything further to discuss? [19:35] I guess we're done then. [19:35] Thanks all! [19:35] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice [19:35] Meeting ended Mon Mar 23 19:35:05 2020 UTC. [19:35] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-23-19.02.moin.txt [19:35] o/ [19:35] bye all [19:35] o/ [19:35] tku! [19:38] o/ [19:39] o/ === cpaelzer__ is now known as cpaelzer