[03:06] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:06] <ducasse> good morning
[07:13] <akem> Heya.
[10:18] <lotuspsychje> !bug
[10:21] <lotuspsychje> a nice new edited wiki by paulw2u https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses
[14:31] <pragmaticenigma> TJ-, yes... lets promote anti-learning patterns by telling someone to do everything themselves... so they make assumptions about things that are wrong and believe everything is isolative
[14:35] <TJ-> what!?
[14:35] <TJ-> that is so wrong-headed
[14:36] <pragmaticenigma> That is how I just interpreted your statement in main
[14:36] <TJ-> We have a new user who is self-investigating how the plumbing of commands works and needs additional pointers to narrow down their focus, that is to be supported and encouraged
[14:37] <lotuspsychje> aint we all struggling sometimes, looking for solutions ourselfs
[14:38] <pragmaticenigma> That user also explained the professor is giving them a bunch of commands they don't understand... which is why I encouraged them to speak to the professor... the teacher may not realize that the class isn't as savvy about the stuff they're being taught... and then you go and contradict that statement
[14:38] <lotuspsychje> then we are glad theres a community closeby to help
[14:38] <TJ-> also, it's not a very welcoming response for a 1st timer to arrinve in #ubtunu and immediately be told to go somewhere else
[14:38] <pragmaticenigma> I'm not going over that topic again
[14:39] <TJ-> pragmaticenigma: no, I said its an opportunity for self-learning. This person can then share what they've learned with their cohort AND their professsor
[14:39] <TJ-> it's not either/or, its both
[14:40] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but the user suggested himself to go look for another channel
[14:40] <pragmaticenigma> That isn't how I perceived it, since the message was directed specifically at me, as if to correct what I said
[14:41] <TJ-> I said "also"
[14:41] <lotuspsychje> i think jaako skared him off a bit suggesting google
[14:41] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: indeed, and I gave them a couple of suggestions but then it appears they were talking about "apt update" so it'd be appropriate in #ubuntu
[14:42] <pragmaticenigma> Linguiestically... prefixing a message with someone's name gives the message a tone that it's directed specifically at them. given the context of the entire converstation, I took that to imply it was corrective. Not placing my name in front of the comment, I would have perceived your also as constructive and additive
[14:42] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: im not disputing your method in this case
[14:43] <lotuspsychje> just wanted to point pragmaticenigma didnt really told him to go look elsewhere?
[14:47] <pragmaticenigma> I've butted heads on that topic before... yes, it's important to understand the nature of someone's problem before redirecting them. It's also important to recognize that the line of questioning is not appropriate for the channel, and the conversation should be moved to a more appropriate venue.
[14:48] <lotuspsychje> i also support dividing things in the right channels
[14:48] <lotuspsychje> but scripting issues on an ubuntu VM is allowed here right?
[14:49] <pragmaticenigma> what do you mean lotuspsychje ?
[14:49] <lotuspsychje> pragmaticenigma: i mean the case of ConfusedTranslat is allowed to support
[14:54] <pragmaticenigma> I take no issue with confused seeking help understanding commands, i see it as being no different than a support question where we tell them to execute a command and they want to know what it means first
[14:54] <pragmaticenigma> the difference is the suggestion of the command came from someone I must have on "ignore" ;-)