 eickmeyer why is the default wallpaper the backup one?
 ok I think I realize what happened but oh well...
[14:38] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: What was that?
[16:06] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, @azbulutlu and I were voice-chatting, and considering you are talking about going to Kubuntu + Studio on 20.04 for daily use, and she's already using Kubuntu + Studio, and considering I have better knowledge about how seed files work, why don't we just pull the trigger for 20.10 and switch whole-hog from Xfce to Plasma. Thoughts?
 (#FocusOn2004LTSFirstTHough)
[17:06] <OvenWerks> ok
[17:07] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: most of that would end up being your work though.
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> Yep.
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> @teward001 No problem in working on a little vision in the meantime.
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> Can't even work on it until after GG opens.
 true
 i have at least 6 things for Server once GG opens heh
 heh GG!  GetGud!
 *shot*
 yes i'm still not caffeinated enough
 Or... Good Game?
[17:10] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: it may cause difficulties with up grades...
[17:11] <Eickmeyer> We'll just have to recommend clean installs. Lubuntu went through this two years ago.
[17:11] <OvenWerks> Studio went through it from gnome2 to xfce
 OvenWerks: Release Notes entry dictating that "Upgrades from 20.04 to 20.10 or later are not supported due to the DE change.  Therefore, you must Clean Install for 20.10 and later to upgrade from 20.04."
 and this is gong to be a case for Lubuntu right now too - 18.04 LXDE 20.04 LXQt ERRNOTSUPPORTED
 :P
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> Yep. Growing pains.
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> Either way, it's nice to have people who have been there before to talk to about such moves.
[17:13] <Eickmeyer> We'll go through the same thing 2 years from now with 20.04 > 22.04.
[17:14] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: can we make sure the file to do the up grade does not work or just prints warning?
[17:14] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm not sure. That would be something the release team would have to work on with the software upgrader.
[17:14] <Eickmeyer> teward: Any advice on that? ^
[17:14] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I remember before even though the release notes said not to do the up grade lots of people tried anyway
[17:15] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Then you just tell them "Per the release notes, that's not supported."
[17:15] <Eickmeyer> It might sound harsh, but that's reality.
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> Either way, if we're going to do it, 20.10's release cycle is the perfect time because that gives us four cycles to get 22.04 LTS real smooth.
[17:18] <OvenWerks> the problem being that the software updater puts up a button that says something like: A new release of ubuntu studio is available, Update now?"
[17:18] <OvenWerks> I agree
[17:19] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: True, but not for LTS releases unless the user specifically enables upgrades to regular releases. Again, this is something we'd have to talk to the release team about since they deal with software-updater.
[17:19] <Eickmeyer> Also, Lubuntu has been there before very recently.
[17:19] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Are you even alive???
[17:20] <OvenWerks> it's early saturday morning ;)
[17:20] <Eickmeyer> It's past Noon his time and I haven't heard from him except on Telegram.
[17:20] <Eickmeyer> teward has a good pulse on Lubuntu as well.
[17:21] <OvenWerks> I need to try the "new" lubuntu too.
 yeah I regularly test Lubuntu
 in fact LXQt there made me spin LXQt on my Debian Unstable VM
 with tweaks :P
[17:24] <OvenWerks> I was more worried you wanted to split -controls... that would have been work... for me :)
[17:26] <OvenWerks> but I guess now we should base some of these things on Qt?
[17:32] <OvenWerks> I want to take some time to revisit https://github.com/ovenwerks/midikb and switch from jackd based to alsa based and I guess I may need to update https://github.com/ovenwerks/mcpdisp to keep it from bitrot
[17:33] <OvenWerks> Studio-controls needs to get up loaded (if Eickmeyer hasn't yet)
[17:33] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ack on -controls.
[17:34] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Additionally, I don't think we need to switch anything to Qt. Plasma's handling of GTK is pretty seamless now.
 Eickmeyer: I think we'd have to coordinate with the Release Team
 but keep in mind that the upgrade process for the upgrade checker in < 20.04 may not be specific enough per flavor
[17:35] <Eickmeyer> teward: In terms of software-updater?
 d-r-u for instance doesn't give a damn under the hood about the flavor only the release codename
[17:35] <OvenWerks> That is one of the things I like about plasma, It tries to make the applications run well rather than the desktop.
 Eickmeyer: you have to address it in the software updater app AND `do-release-upgrade` on the CLI
[17:35] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed. It's well-optimized and dosn't try to take-over the app.
[17:36] <Eickmeyer> teward: Ack. I won't bug the release team until after 20.04 releases, but it's good to keep in mind.
 probably should talk to them earlier like now before release
 because we dont want people to attempt updates and brick things
[17:37] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: I'm showing Controls in the archives is the latest?
[17:38] <Eickmeyer> Unless you had something to fix.
[17:38] <OvenWerks> -controls is at release... there is work on the tablets part on my machine
[17:38] <Eickmeyer> teward: Well, upgrading to 20.04 isn't the issue, so I'm confused. Upgrading FROM 20.04 would be the issue.
 durrr i'm tired :P
 you're correct :)
[17:38] <OvenWerks> I think he was refering to lubuntu
[17:39] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: No, he's referring to Studio. It's just a slightly-less-caffinated verson of teward we're talking to.. :)
[17:39] <teward> ERR:NotEnoughCaffeine
[17:39] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: In that case, there's nothing for me to upload.
[17:39]  * OvenWerks is in the same state
[17:40] <Eickmeyer> I'm on my second cup.
[17:40] <OvenWerks> my coffe "cup" (container) is a 16 ounce so I may be as well...
[17:41] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: In terms of the tablet stuff: Is this going to be more advanced than what Plasma carries?
[17:42] <OvenWerks> I guess I should check that Probably not right now... 
[17:42] <OvenWerks> right so it may be that is not needed
[17:42] <Eickmeyer> That's kinda what I'm thinking, and what went through Eylul's head as well.
[17:43] <OvenWerks>  (except for people doing studio over a flavour that does)
[17:43] <Eickmeyer> Which is fair.
[17:44] <OvenWerks> the one thing I want to do is add a fix for tablets that are supported by the kernel but not by xsetwacom out of the box
[17:44] <Eickmeyer> That would be amazing.
[17:44] <Eickmeyer> So, +1 on that.
[17:44] <OvenWerks> I have filed a bug against the package that should install the file but have heard nothing back
[17:45] <Eickmeyer> Can you throw me the bug number? It might be that a bug needs to be filed upstream in Debian to get any movement.
[17:45] <OvenWerks> It would work by listing pad/stylus devices and the user can choose one and I can add a file to xstartup
[17:46] <OvenWerks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-wacom/+bug/1857509
[17:47] <Eickmeyer> Nope, not a Debian sync. The Ubuntu X-SWAT maintains that one.
[17:47] <Eickmeyer> Although, the changelog is a DD (tjaalton)
[17:48] <OvenWerks> I was just going to grab the device ID and add a file like /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-studio.conf
[17:48] <Eickmeyer> Well, that would be a decent workaround.
[17:48] <OvenWerks> with a paragraph for each device the user has (some people have more than one
[17:49] <Eickmeyer> I just subscribed the maintainer to the bug. It could be they weren't paying any attention.
[17:49] <OvenWerks> The user would of course have to reboot after for x to pick it up
 (sorry to interrupt but this is the known installer issue right? https://mastodon.eus/@PorrurenGrabatokia/103901740021263131)
[18:17] <OvenWerks> that file should be a link normally added when the setup for the kernel is done (update-grub)
[18:27] <OvenWerks> so first suspision is not a full iso download or not a full transfer to the install media
[18:27] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: They were downloading from /pending not /current.
[18:27] <OvenWerks> has this person run a media (cd) check from the boot commandline of the install media?
[18:28] <OvenWerks> ok
[18:29] <OvenWerks> I see lubuntu is also 64bit only.
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> (/pending is always incomplete.)
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> yep,
[19:03] <teward> OvenWerks: Yes, Lubuntu is 64bit only now
[19:03] <teward> they discontinued 32bit after 18.04 I believe
[19:03] <teward> i forget when they did that though
[19:03] <OvenWerks> same as everyone
 yep
[19:03] <teward> no 32bit ISOs
[19:03] <teward> there's still some 32bit PACKAGES
[19:03] <teward> but
 yeah no 32bit ISOs anymore