[04:43] <Dmitrii-Sh> o/
[05:41] <jam> morning Dmitrii-Sh
[06:35] <Dmitrii-Sh> morning jam
[06:36] <Dmitrii-Sh> regarding https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/216#discussion_r405455364 - we'll need to change our copyright header checks then
[06:37] <Dmitrii-Sh> as for serialization, I converted the interface code to use json instead https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/216/commits/68152461b5b104ccf4aaea3c04ea36e9d1fd5c7b
[06:38] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, indeed, it really depends how we want to do it as a project, and then update the source checks, etc to match that.
[06:38] <jam> I think I clarified that my preference is to keep Copyright as a comment and put the docstring after copyright comment
[06:38] <jam> which wouldn't require changes
[06:48] <Dmitrii-Sh> jam: ok, I reverted the change. Might be good to discuss during the standup
[08:24] <niemeyer> Good morning all
[08:25] <jam> morning
[08:32] <Chipaca> gooood morning team!
[08:45]  * jam steps away for lunch, bbaib
[08:48] <Chipaca> 'be back after i burp' 👍
[09:47] <jam> I thought I was the one that made up backronyms. I did realize once I hit submit that it was a typo, wasn't sure it was worth a second message :)
[10:22] <jam> I just came across this https://www.theonion.com/nasa-launches-vengeance-rover-to-pay-back-mars-for-kill-1842750166
[10:31] <jam> Dmitrii-Sh, Chipaca : thoughts on parameter formatting. 'git annotate' says that I use ":param foo: description" style, while the two of you have used more "foo -- description" style.
[10:31] <jam> we should probably get shared agreement on that style (possibly based on what Sphinx/readthedocs renders)
[10:31] <Chipaca> jam: agreed
[10:31] <jam> s/we should probably/we need to get/
[10:31] <Chipaca> so, questions
[10:31] <Chipaca> do we want to use python type annotations or not?
[10:32] <Chipaca> (if we did, we could then use mypy to do static analysis while not requiring it to run)
[10:32] <jam> I've never used them, my primary Python time was in the 2.* era. AIUI they are just documentation as well, right?
[10:32] <jam> eg, not actually enforced.
[10:32] <Chipaca> right, except mypy can check for them
[10:32] <Chipaca> ie you can do static analysis
[10:32] <jam> I don't have enough experience with them to know whether they feel good or feel like noise.
[10:33] <Chipaca> when running with plain python, they're just metadata
[10:33] <Chipaca> to me they feel more natural than the :type: docstrings
[10:33] <Chipaca> but I don't have a super-strong preference :)
[10:34] <Chipaca> let's talk about it on tuesday when facu is back
[10:34] <Chipaca> facu and myself, that is :)
[10:34] <jam> Given the language has built-in support for them, I'd tend to go with that over :type:, It also depends heavily on how well supported they are in editors
[10:34] <Chipaca> i'll set up a meeting so we remember
[10:34] <jam> but PyCharm seems to support either.
[10:34] <Chipaca> sphinx supports either also (with a plugin)
[10:35] <Chipaca> i need to check if readthedocs supports that plugin but it should (and i have a friend working on the readthedocs backend so i might be able to influence that if they don't)
[10:35] <jam> My main concern with "foo --" is that it is missing the "bulleted list" indicator. (start of new section is after the section has started)
[10:37] <Chipaca> jam: 1 sec
[10:37] <Chipaca> jam: http://www.sphinx-doc.org/en/master/usage/extensions/napoleon.html
[10:38] <Chipaca> jam: I'd prefer either of those styles (google or numpy) to the default rst style
[10:38] <Chipaca> jam: in any case 'foo --' is wrong :)
[10:38] <Chipaca> jam: and, 1 further sec for me to find the other extension
[10:39] <jam> Chipaca, interestingly, their statement "Compare the jumble above to this alternative". I actually find it easier to read the "jumble" but that is likely just lots of usage of that style. :)
[10:39] <jam> I can imagine that practice with an alternative will similarly improve my ability to read it.
[10:39] <Chipaca> jam: https://github.com/agronholm/sphinx-autodoc-typehints would be the extension that gets type from the annotation, and it supports napoleon also
[10:40] <jam> for some reason I don't like "foo (type):"
[10:40] <jam> I would have preferred it "foo: (type)"
[10:40] <niemeyer> I'm not a big fan of the :type: etc notation.. I've never seen it being worth the cost of having to write and read it, compared to normal English text in the summary
[10:40] <jam> In that, I prefer Numpy, though it feels rather spaced out.
[10:41] <niemeyer> We generally end up re-stating the type in the sentence anyway
[10:41] <Chipaca> jam: note that with the typehints thing we'd just write foo: in the google style
[10:41] <niemeyer> :type:FooBar:  The FooBar used to process it.
[10:42] <Chipaca> maybe we should write them out in full for a single realistic docstring for the meeting tuesday
[10:42] <Chipaca> i'll get on that after finishing dispatch support
[10:42] <niemeyer> +1
[10:42] <niemeyer> Thanks for that
[10:42] <jam> Chipaca, sounds like some nice examples to have on hand
[10:43] <niemeyer> Are we skipping the standup today?
[10:43] <Chipaca> we can do it on IRC just to make sure we're aware of what we're doing
[10:43] <niemeyer> Well.. :)
[10:43] <Chipaca> :-D
[10:44] <Chipaca> but, no, i don't think we should (it's just facu that's away)
[10:44] <Chipaca> i did delete it and then re-created it because i thought we'd do the bug revue today (but facu's away)
[10:44] <Chipaca> otoh i don't mind doing it on irc because introvert
[10:49] <niemeyer> I don't have it in my calendar.. if it's just Facundo out, we should do it
[10:50] <jam> so the weekly operator sync meeting that collided on Tues got moved to Friday evening....
[10:50] <Chipaca> jam: yeap
[10:51] <Chipaca> jam: don't worry about it
[10:51] <jam> I was going to say that it isn't a time that I think I'll be attending regularly.
[10:53] <niemeyer> Best time for regular weekly meetings.. Friday evening..
[10:53] <Chipaca> I've emailed Anthony about it being sub-ideal, we'll see
[10:53] <Chipaca> meanwhile, don't fret it
[10:56] <niemeyer> Better than that only if it was a Good Friday..
[10:59] <Chipaca> they're all good fridays bront
[11:10] <Chipaca> oh drat 12pm and i didn't have mah mid-morning protein
[11:10] <Chipaca> lunch is gonna be a big thing
[12:29]  * jam heads to help my son study Spanish
[13:08] <Chipaca> I think this is relevant to our interests: https://mobile.twitter.com/fasterthanlime/status/1248025337235210243
[13:09] <niemeyer> Weeeeee
[13:33] <Chipaca> niemeyer, Dmitrii-Sh, jam, 👋
[13:33] <Dmitrii-Sh> o/
[13:33] <Chipaca> I came back from getting a cup of tea to find my desktop wouldn't un-map the lock screen
[13:33] <Chipaca> annoying
[13:33] <niemeyer> We're in the standup..
[13:33] <Chipaca> omw
[13:33] <jam> Chipaca, Dmitrii-Sh https://meet.google.com/fqw-mdqc-dsf
[13:33] <Chipaca> ta
[13:52] <jam> https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/221 reviewed
[13:52] <jam> 'osp' is that supposed to be 'ops' ?
[13:55] <pekkari> Hi, anybody can take a quick read to this pastebin to see what I'm doing that wrong settinga relation data? https://pastebin.canonical.com/p/sJGfT8Cx7v/
[13:56] <jam> pekkari, you are setting "admin_url" to a tuple (url,) is that intended?
[13:57] <pekkari> jam: no those commas are not intended, I was trying to set a full dictionary first, and then moved to key by key assignment, thanks for the hint
[13:57] <jam> pekkari, the other bug is that "event.unit" is the *remote* unit whose data has changed
[13:57] <jam> pekkari, you're not allowed to write to the remote unit's data
[13:58] <jam> pekkari, you want event.relation.data[self.model.unit]
[13:58] <jam> pekkari, event.relation.data[event.unit] is to read the data that the remote side is telling you about during relation-changed
[13:58] <pekkari> I see, yeah, I was suspecting it was a newbie issue here
[13:59] <pekkari> thanks jam! I'll test it this way
[13:59] <Chipaca> jam: thanks for the review
[14:00] <Chipaca> jam: the "run the hook _as well_" was not what I had understood... but that's ok :)
[14:01] <jam> Chipaca, so we had a number of discussions about it, where I ended up was that the operator framework already likes to have multiple event handlers
[14:01] <jam> lots of things can listen for 'install'
[14:01] <jam> the hooks/* is just another one of them
[14:01] <Chipaca> right, so that seems in tune with that
[14:01] <Chipaca> i'll fix
[14:01] <jam> If you don't do that, then it ends up that dropping a shell script ends up breaking all the components that you're using
[14:01] <Chipaca> you say that like it's a bad thing
[14:01]  * Chipaca hides
[14:02] <jam> Chipaca, no worries, I was originally more in favor of what you implemented. It was when I realized the multi-event thing that it clicked in my head.
[14:02] <Chipaca> jam: and yes i seem to have been in more of a hurry than needed when writing the commit message, will fix that also
[14:15] <Chipaca> I think I'm going to go for a run now, and return to this after
[14:26]  * Chipaca goes
[16:07] <niemeyer> #218
[16:07] <mup_> PR #218: Add relation-created events <Created by dshcherb> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/218>
[16:26] <Chipaca> #waat
[16:27] <Chipaca> cockroachdb-operator#1
[16:27] <mup_> PR cockroachdb-operator#1: initial cockroachdb-operator charm for review <Created by dshcherb> <https://github.com/canonical/cockroachdb-operator/pull/1>
[16:32] <Dmitrii-Sh> reworked #212
[16:32] <mup_> PR #212: Harness: do not emit extra relation changed events <Created by dshcherb> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/212>
[16:32] <Dmitrii-Sh> nice ^
[16:33] <Dmitrii-Sh> thanks for making mup_ work niemeyer
[16:34] <niemeyer> My pleasure.. this is still not 100% online as it's running in my laptop for now, but hopefully next week I can finish the migration
[16:35] <niemeyer> This is a separate instance from mup.. eventually mup will die and this will get renamed to it
[17:14] <Chipaca> OK guys, i'm off, mostly. Will checkback from time to time to poke at things, but other than that, see you Tuesday!
[17:26] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Have a good evening and a good holiday
[17:26] <Chipaca> i've got a slow-cooking pork shoulder going since breakfast time
[17:26] <Chipaca> the whole house smells of it
[17:26] <Chipaca> so it's off to a good start i reckon :-)
[17:27] <niemeyer> Poor neighbors :P
[17:27] <Chipaca> :-D