[15:03] <Eickmeyer> Hey all. I'm going to be applying for the Ubuntu Studio packageset soon, so I'd appreciate comments/testimonials. :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Eickmeyer/PPUApplication2
[15:05] <Eickmeyer> j-goose: Saw your questions on main. To answer all of them, it's simply a matter of time: getting 20.04 out the door is priority #1.
 i missed questions heh
 *salts Eickmeyer*
[15:07] <Eickmeyer> teward: It was in #ubuntustudio. He was wondering why the lack of write-ups for certain applications and screenshots on the website. :P
[15:07] <teward> ah
[15:07] <Eickmeyer> ERR:Time
[16:26] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Looks like I'll be able to revive patchage.
[16:26] <Eickmeyer> https://gitlab.com/drobilla/patchage/-/issues/1
[16:26] <Eickmeyer> teward: Gonna have an upload here soon.
[16:27] <teward> upload where
[16:27] <teward> ubuntu, debian, deeznuts?
[16:27] <teward> *yawns*
[16:27] <Eickmeyer> Ubuntu.
[16:27] <Eickmeyer> No time for Debian on this one.
[16:27] <Eickmeyer> Besides, debian's repo is gone for this one.
[16:28] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I do prefer patcge to Carla because I don't have to go looking for the patch bay.
[16:28] <Eickmeyer> Uh... you find it hard to click on a tab OvenWerks ?
[16:28] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: As falktx separates his utilities and we can get just the patchbay I would like to switch to that.
[16:29] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, Catia would be that. I'd like that too.
[16:29] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer:  Carla is also slow in start up for a quick look at the graph
[16:29] <Eickmeyer> Either way, I'm working on it.
[16:29] <OvenWerks> That is one of my complaints about qjackctl for looking at the graph as well
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> teward: Any clue which part of debhelper applies the patches? I need it to run first which might require an override.
 that's handled by quilt I think and applied automatically
 not sure if you can override that without quilt patches
 would have to dig
 but currently dealing with power disruptions at home
[17:16] <Eickmeyer> The problem is that the patches need to run before it calls .waf distclean at the beginning of the build.
[17:16] <Eickmeyer> (it's not currently doing that0
 then the patches need to be quilt patches
 are they?
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> Yes, they are.
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> I'm just trying to figure out in what order.
 which repo
[17:22] <namn> Yo, this is christoffer Tallerås the social media guy. For some reason the matrix thing doesn't work at all, I think it's a privacytools.io issue. But the important part is that my Facebook account got nuked by Facebook so I ended up making one in my real name. So just discard the "Namn Namnesen" permissions to the FB site. This is my new one with my IRL name https://www.facebook.com/christoffer.talleras
[17:23] <namn> Kind of sucks TBH
 the question then is why did Facebook ban you :P
 unless you did it yourself :P
[17:26]  * OvenWerks thinks that about fb in general
[17:28] <Eickmeyer> Well, Facebook doesn't like fake accounts, so that might've been why.
[17:28] <namn> Yeah, they want you too use your real name and shit
[17:28] <Eickmeyer> Yep.
[17:29] <Eickmeyer> It's against their TOS to have a fake name on there.
[17:29] <OvenWerks> and then they leak it to all and sundry
[17:29] <namn> Luckily Twitter aren't so stuck up
[17:31] <namn> Just a shame as I had left Facebook forever a long time ago
[17:47] <namn> BTW, I'm gonna make a social media content plan
[17:47] <namn> How have you guys done stuff like that previously?
[17:48] <namn> I'm thinking of just having a shared spreadsheet or something
[17:52] <teward> Eickmeyer: ask #ubuntu-devel for an assist
[17:52] <teward> at the moment I've got shit-on-fire (metaphorically) that takes my attention
[17:53] <namn> and related to that, are there any dates besides the release that I should know about when planning our social media presence?
[18:00] <Eickmeyer> teward: No worries, I'm probably not going to worry about it.
[18:01] <Eickmeyer> namn: Hold please...
[18:01] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Bad news, Patchage won't build. Looks like Dave is targeting Arch, which has a newer version of ganv than we do, and it wants to build against that. Basically, we can't even backport it.
[18:02] <Eickmeyer> namn: Ok, so just read what you have. Right now, release is really the next big date. I'll be posting the announcement on the website.
[18:03] <Eickmeyer> namn: As far as a content plan, it's usually just announcements.
[18:03] <Eickmeyer> If you come up with something better, I'd like to see it.
[18:12] <namn> Eickmeyer: I'm just starting on the content plan, I haven't put down anything yet, but with the planned dates and announcements I'm gonna make some proposials. This plan will include what day it is posted, what time it is posted, topic and content and each platform will have it's own plan as each needs to be used differently.
[18:12] <Eickmeyer> namn: Ack.
[18:13] <namn> But my general idea is to plan for some graphics or similar type content which communicates something about Ubuntu Studio and that are easily shared
[18:14] <Eickmeyer> Ok, yeah, sure. You've got the material you need. If you need anything else, such as backgrounds or what-not, you can use your usr/share/backgrounds/ubuntustudio directory.
[18:14] <namn> As I'm not being paid there is limitations to what I can do, but I'm thinking I could easily spin something up for tomorow and next friday. And Obviously there should be put in a lot of fancy content on the release date
[18:14] <namn> Great!
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> That's fine. I'm not paid either. None of us are.
[18:15] <namn> Yeah heheh
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> The people who made the website theme weren't paid for that, but since they were starting their business, they wanted something for their portfolio.
[18:15] <namn> I'll manage to do most of this myself but will try to keep you up to date to approve stuff and stuff like that
[18:16] <namn> The plan will be a important tool for that
[18:17] <Eickmeyer> Cool
[18:17] <namn> I see, I'm hoping to get some portfolio stuff myself. Have done a lot of personal work that isn't really fit for portfolio stuff, so I'm hoping to get more material in the field which also has more weight to them in a setting like this
[18:18] <namn> If Eyul additional time she is free to join in this tentative plan too
[18:19] <Eickmeyer> @azbulutlu ^
 huh wha..
 sorry I was on phone
[18:20] <Eickmeyer> No worries, just read up. namn (Christoffer) wants you involved in the social media stuff if you have time.
[18:21] <namn> @azbulutlu TLDR; I'm working on a tentative social media plan for time time until the release and the release. You are free to join.
 yeah sure can help as I still have some of the assets
 can especially help with the visuals
[18:21] <Eickmeyer> namn has the assets too. I linked him pretty much everything.
 sorry. namn -> christoffer was the part I was missing
 was like. wait we have a second person interested in this?
[18:22] <namn> Oh yeah. My matrix home server went down lol
 ouch
 temp or permanent?
[18:23] <namn> idk, it's not fully down. just doesn't work
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> I'm staying off Matrix until they get their junk in order. Trying a few different things right now.
 I might try the kde server
 you suggested.
[18:23] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I might too.
[18:24] <Eickmeyer> I'm on Weechat right now, relayed through my Digital Ocean droplet just like my quassel core is.
[18:24] <eylul[m]> testing the matrix in question
[18:24] <eylul[m]> oh look what is working now
[18:25] <namn> (Namn = Name in Nynorwegian, which is the non-danish influenced written tongue we use outside the cities in Norway, kind of like the commoner's tongue, if anyone wondered) I can change my name if needed
[18:25] <Eickmeyer> Oh yay!
[18:26] <Eickmeyer> Can confirm, we see you eylul[m]!
[18:26] <eylul[m]> we'll see how long it lasts, it says my name isn't registered
[18:26] <eylul[m]> no idea what is happening here. 
[18:26] <eylul[m]> xD
[18:26] <eylul[m]> anyways
[18:26] <eylul[m]> but yeah I might try weechat. or quassel, depending on which one yunohost supports if either
[18:27] <Eickmeyer> You should be able to message nickserv and tell it "identify eylul <password>".
[18:27] <namn> Is it possible to join this chat through XMPP?
[18:27] <eylul[m]> via matrix probably would be the only way to do that
[18:27] <eylul[m]> I have never seen XMPP bridged to IRC
[18:28] <eylul[m]> I did use to have an XMPP via dreamhost, I stopped using it because nobody else did
[18:28] <Eickmeyer> I don't know enough about XMPP.
[18:29] <eylul[m]> its basically like gchat
[18:29] <eylul[m]> gchat used to be based on xmpp for context
[18:29] <namn> I use it mostly for direct messages, but I know it works for group chats too.
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> Like Jabber?
[18:29] <namn> Yeah, Jabber is XMPP
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> Ah, gotcha.
[18:29] <Eickmeyer> I've used it before.
[18:29] <eylul[m]> its really intuitive especially for 1-on-1 the problem with group video audio etc, is that the implementations are not standard and everything does something else
[18:29] <eylul[m]> yep 
[18:30] <eylul[m]> is weechat commandline based?
[18:32] <eylul[m]> anyway back on the topic. I'll be busy around the weekend, but I do have some time tomorrow, especially around evening, and a bit on monday to work on things. not sure when the release is planned
[18:32] <eylul[m]> I am assuming within a week (possibly less?)
[18:33] <Eickmeyer> Weechat is command line based, but there are graphical clients in development.
[18:34] <namn> I'm planning for a social media post tomorow and for the next friday, and the release. That makes three posts for Facebook. While on Twitter and Mastodon I think a different approach should be done.
[18:34] <namn> I don't know what types of posts they are gonna be yet
[18:35] <Eickmeyer> Ok, just run them by me. :)
[18:36] <namn> But I'm thinking some graphics talking about the attributes of ubuntu studio, and maybe one about something regarding ethical software with agree & disagree
[18:36] <namn> Eickmeyer: @eylul are there any thoughts and ideas that comes to mind that fits those two types of social media content?
[18:36] <Eickmeyer> Let's leave the ethical software debate out of it.
[18:37] <namn> I see
[18:37] <eylul[m]> yeah I know this is something that you feel strongly about christoffer. 
[18:37] <eylul[m]> but... well you also know my opinion on it as well. :))
[18:38] <namn> But as a context thing, types of posts on facebook that has a discussion factor using the emotes have a huge impact on facebook
[18:38] <eylul[m]> I would think that mastodon has a very different audience. communicating with people, and interacting with them is the right approach there
[18:38] <eylul[m]> I actually know very little about how to make it through twitter these days through
[18:38] <namn> I'm not really concerned with what that post will be, but something we could talk about fitting that type of post
[18:38] <eylul[m]> the main reason I have twitter/instagram/facebook is because I have been more or less forced to have it, because people keep asking to follow me there :P
[18:39] <eylul[m]> nods
[18:39] <eylul[m]> I would say something like encouraging people to use #ubuntustudio hashtag could be interesting
[18:39] <eylul[m]> and tag their work with it
[18:39] <eylul[m]> also obviously mirror boost longer content we put on facebook/blog
[18:41] <namn> We can go through all the platforms. But the two fridays I suggesten I'm planning as Facebook specific posts.
[18:41] <eylul[m]> ok
[18:42] <eylul[m]> what do you have in mind, and what do you need from me and eickmeyer?
[18:42] <namn> So one of these posts could be like a "hot take" or discussion topic
[18:42] <namn> Not neccessarilly too hot of a topic
[18:42] <namn> but enough for people to want to engage
[18:42] <namn> just like a statement
[18:43] <namn> "We think (...) is how things should be"
[18:43] <namn> Then the post will have two emotes or reactions on it
[18:43] <eylul[m]> errrr...
[18:43] <Eickmeyer> Again, ethical software is not our soapbox.
[18:43] <namn> No
[18:43] <eylul[m]> do we want to open the whole thing by basically encouraging people to free for all feature suggest?
[18:43] <namn> Humph
[18:43] <namn> Think more abstractely
[18:44] <namn> Just anything that has that effect
[18:44] <eylul[m]> we could simply ask people how they use ubuntustudio? the facebook community seem to be already really interested in showcasing their work.
[18:44] <Eickmeyer> I don't want discussions that are going to pit people against each other.
[18:44] <eylul[m]> and from there we could open workflows, and then from there get to VERY gently into open source software issue.
[18:45] <eylul[m]> just thinking out loud
[18:45] <namn> So the trick here is to do something that no one disagrees with but that people feel is an unfair thing
[18:45] <namn> and it should be something that ubuntu studio solves
[18:45] <namn> oor stands against
[18:45] <eylul[m]> nods
[18:46] <eylul[m]> do we know yet what ubuntustudio solves for them?
[18:46] <namn> Don't get too hung up on the ethical software thing, just the first thing that came to mind
[18:46] <eylul[m]> or maybe part of it is asking them what it solves for them, why did they end up ehre. :) 
[18:46] <namn> Yeah, that is why we need a social media strategy heheh
[18:46] <eylul[m]> here*
[18:46] <eylul[m]> eylul's typos are in action again :P
[18:47] <namn> I can come with a visual example that I've done for another social media page
[18:47] <eylul[m]> sure!
[18:48] <eylul[m]> sorry christoffer, it is possible that we are simply not understanding what you are talking about here
[18:48] <eylul[m]> I know you have background in campaigning
[18:49] <eylul[m]> I do come from more of a non-profit experience and that of an artist, so it is possible that we are simply not visualizing what you are talking about well.
[18:49] <namn> Yeah, and it's fine. Like it's understandable
[18:50] <eylul[m]> btw I am available to voice chat if either of you are up to it, have time (eickmeyer I know it is not always possible for you these days)
[18:50] <namn> So here is a very successfull post I've done before. Now this one is very populistic and has political messaging, I'll be asking you to look away from that
[18:50] <namn> https://christalleras.no/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Kven-vill-du-ha-liten.png
[18:51] <namn> But visually there will be either one or two pictures, a statement, emotes and a logo
[18:51] <eylul[m]> ohhhhhhh!!!!! you want to create meme posts!
[18:51] <eylul[m]> a type of them at least.
[18:52] <namn> It's not a meme, it's just a type of rhetorical post that does well with the facebook algorythm
[18:52] <namn> It's in essence like a meme, but it shouldn't feel like a meme to the audience
[18:52] <eylul[m]> ok...
[18:52] <namn> so you are correct in that respect
[18:53] <namn> As these types of posts have like a set up
[18:53] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: re: patchage... thats the way the cookie crumbles...
[18:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Yep, and indeed.
[18:54] <namn> But I'll try to figure out some ideas for you guys to approve, but if you got any ideas give me a shout
[18:55] <eylul[m]> namn: I think this could be very good to attract new people to the page. the group. I am less sure how it will go with the existing audience there. which.. I am not sure but feels like an older age group. 
[18:56] <namn> It should go well with any age group I think, but it is a important concern, so the visuals used should work for older folks!
[18:56] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's very much an older age group that interacts on Facebook.
[18:56] <eylul[m]> Christoffer, did you look at the existing posts by users on the facebook page? 
[18:56] <eylul[m]> and nods at that
[18:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://facebook.com/ubuntustudiogroup
[18:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> You'll want to re-join that.
[18:58] <eylul[m]> also the other thing is we do have a facebook page separate from the group, if that is the case, these two might need to be treated differently (genuinely tries to remember)
[18:58] <Eickmeyer[m]> Bad URL
[18:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> https://facebook.com/groups/ubuntustudiogroup
[18:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> They are treated differently, and the page can post to the group.
[18:59] <namn> I don't necessarilly agree. You can attract young people on facebook too. But the types of posts you do matter a lot
[18:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> Rather, they can be treated differently.
[19:00] <namn> There is ofc platforms you can use to direct towards younger auiences more strongly though
[19:00] <eylul[m]> we don't say we cannot attract young people. 
[19:00] <namn> @eylul I had a quick glance of facebook, twitter and Mastodon
[19:01] <eylul[m]> I actually think we can with some of the ideas you present. we are more talking about the current existing audience (e.g. people who are members/following)
[19:01] <eylul[m]> :)
[19:01] <eylul[m]> and yes the page is separate from the group
[19:01] <namn> Ahh, but I'll make sure to not alienate those of course
[19:02] <eylul[m]> nods
[19:02] <namn> You guys will be helping me do that too^^
[19:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> I set the facebook group to invisible because spammers would try to join. It ended up being a pain. I'll probably link it from the website, but I don't want it discoverable on Facebook itself.
[19:03] <eylul[m]> we could also put the group aside for now, focus on the page witht the ideas namn mentioned.
[19:03] <eylul[m]> and then see where we are? is thinking out loud
[19:03] <namn> I agree
[19:05] <namn> I'd love to buy in to the feelings towards the big standing in opposition to the big corps
[19:05] <namn> How do you feel about that
[19:06] <OvenWerks> ubuntu is not a big corp?
[19:06] <OvenWerks> (well the ownwer)
[19:06] <namn> I don't mean rationally ;) ;)
[19:07] <namn> But Linux in itself is kind of counter culture, a bit rebelious. And people overall feel uneasyness with the Microsofts, the Apples and so on of the world
[19:09] <eylul[m]> ubuntustudio audience is a bit different. especially the audio folks.
[19:10] <eylul[m]> a lot of people especially who come to ubuntustudio comes to ubuntustudio because it literally is one of the easiest ways to get into audio production
[19:10] <namn> Not even privacy? That is good to know
[19:10] <Eickmeyer[m]> namn: I don't want to portray that image. That's not our soapbox.
[19:10] <eylul[m]> it comes with presetting 2 pretty hard to install tools: jack and ardour
[19:11] <eylul[m]> that's kind of why many of the audio distros existed. 
[19:11] <namn> What is our soapbox? That's kind of what I'm trying to figure out to be frank
[19:11] <eylul[m]> I have been trying to bring other art (visual art) etc, but that has been me mostly. *dodges the incoming object from all the developers :P *
[19:11] <Eickmeyer[m]> We are about enabling people to be creative with audio production, video production, graphic design, photography, and publishing.
 *drags eylul out into the middle of the arena and ties them to a post*
 *leaves them there in the heat of the three suns*
[19:12] <eylul[m]> ouch
[19:13]  * Eickmeyer[m] throws an armed nuke at @teward001
[19:13] <eylul[m]> although now we are starting to work on tools, and put the effort in to make tools available for visual artists. like ovenwerks is currently working on ubuntustudio-controls that will come with its own wacom controls, and I'd argue that one of the advantages of swapping to KDE plasma will be harnassing plasma's awesome toolkit for folks working with open source graphics software
[19:14] <eylul[m]> (e.g. gwenview, dolphin's ability to thumbnail raw files, Plasma's innate setup for powerusers etc) 
[19:14] <eylul[m]> <3 teward001
[19:14] <eylul[m]> and <3 eickmeyer
[19:14] <Eickmeyer[m]> BTW, the Plasma thing is not yet public knowledge.
[19:15] <eylul[m]> but yeah a huge HUGE userbase of ubuntustudio (especially users who came in earlier) are there for audio primarily, because it makes it very trivial to install this software
[19:15] <eylul[m]> (I mean jack is also kind of cool if you livestream too, being able to adjust which audio goes where is nice in general)
 *dodges the nuke, then drags Eickmeyer through `/dev/urandom`*
 :P
 yeah we regularly take potshots at each other we're all insane and friends though :)
[19:15]  * Eickmeyer[m] sends @teward001 to /dev/zero
 too late i'm already there
 :)
[19:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> Facts
 ERR: File already exists
[19:16] <eylul[m]> ubuntustudio was always cross-domains and had the software for visuals arts as well (as long as I have known it) but yeah that is one of the biggest assets of this distro: jack and ardour. 
[19:16] <eylul[m]> (and now carla, etc. too I suppose, so parts of KXstudio)
[19:16] <eylul[m]> (which is no longer its own distro)
[19:17] <eylul[m]> I love that you two dissolved into linux geekery. :) 
[19:17] <namn> "We are about enabling people to be creative with audio production, video production, graphic design, photography, and publishing." That's not really anything else than every other creative software is, isn't it? And there is definately more to ubuntu studio than just that
[19:18] <namn> as well
[19:18] <namn> But another thing to consider is that we gotta have "something to say"
[19:18] <Eickmeyer[m]> namn: There is no social cause here.
[19:18] <namn> What do we have to tell the world and differenciates us from other creative software, suits and so on
[19:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> We're free. You don't have to pay for it. You can just do what you need to do.
[19:19] <namn> Those are some good examples
[19:19] <eylul[m]> unlike commercial software it doesn't lock you in, you can customize and combine software as you need, your data is yours in free formats
[19:20] <eylul[m]> I mean this is one important thing about most open source software that is not sheer propaganda. they often do come with open formats
[19:20] <eylul[m]> e.g. you can take an image from mypaint, the raw format, and bring it to krita for further edit
[19:20] <eylul[m]> but gimp also can open .ora files
[19:21] <eylul[m]> similarly there are many audio tools, independently produced, but often, moving data between them is easy, and you are not locked into a creative suite
[19:21] <eylul[m]> what people say about opensource is that it is hard to install, etc
[19:21] <eylul[m]> but we make it easy, for even the mostly complicated software like jack and ardour
[19:21] <eylul[m]> and give you a settings tool to help setup your audio settings. we make these tools actually accessible to end user
[19:22] <namn> BTW, I'm not all "social cause" here. I'm gauging your branding here and try to take a professional look. I don't appreciate if eveything is going to go back to that I do other stuff else where or that I mentioned ethical software.
[19:23] <namn> And trying to do marketing without engaging with what is in the public discussion is not very feasable. Reason I mention like privacy is that it's one of the most popular topics right now
[19:24] <namn> And ubuntu studio would clearly be a solution to that, just to make things clear.
[19:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, so then the question: other than that, why do you use Ubuntu Studio?
[19:25] <namn> I'll note down all of these things BTW.
[19:25] <namn> Me personally?
[19:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah. I mean, you're part of this conversation too.
[19:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Really, that's what it comes down to.
[19:25] <Eickmeyer[m]> Why are any of us using it?
 just don't ask me i just help out :)
 *shot*
[19:26]  * Eickmeyer[m] blasts @teward with 30hz sound at 120dB...
[19:27] <eylul[m]> heh well I assume you do use linux teward001
[19:27] <eylul[m]> OWWW behave gentlemen
[19:27] <eylul[m]> frowns at both of the guys :P
[19:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> LOL
 jokes' on you i'm already blasting Motorhead in my earbuds at max volume Eickmeyer ;)
 which is far higher than that xD
[19:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> 30hz simply rattles your insides at that volume, you can't actually hear it.
[19:27] <Eickmeyer[m]> And can make you poop.
 they never verified that ;)
 but you're right.
 this said
 i'm already vibrating with the power of my music :)
 sooooooooooooooo :
 p
[19:28] <eylul[m]> (namn, feel free to reply to what eickmeyer asked, ignore them)
 yeah just ignore us :)
[19:28] <eylul[m]> (release deadlines is bringing the worst in everyone laughs)
[19:28] <eylul[m]> you two do realize that you are filling a poor log somewhere with this random chat right? xD
[19:28] <namn> Yeah. I think we got 4 personas. 1.Professionals 2.Students 3.Enthusiasts 4. Creatives I'd be in the first and third persona.
[19:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'd be 1 and 4.
[19:29] <namn> We still have some work to define these personas though
[19:29] <eylul[m]> 1 3 4 for me. (3 and 4 depending on audio vs visual arts)
[19:30] <eylul[m]> nods
[19:30] <eylul[m]> I think one funky aspect of the whole thing is that
[19:30] <eylul[m]> we have pretty distinct personas based on audience in different social media
[19:30] <namn> Enthusiasts would be people who have high insight into techical things but don't do creative things professionally.
[19:30]  * Eickmeyer[m] has to take son to his school to get some books they need to give him
[19:31] <namn> Creatives would be people who don't have high technical knowledge but that use their time for creative stuff.
[19:31] <eylul[m]> so for example mastodon, we have probably quite a few non-audio folks. which is unusual elsewhere. (again sorry for causing that :P ) vs facebook is a very narrow subset of the audio folk specifically
[19:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> Then that makes me 1, 3, and 4.
[19:31] <eylul[m]> (actually in that case 1 vs 3 for visual vs audio)
[19:32] <namn> Yeah, different platforms definately engage different personas
[19:34] <namn> Problem with professionals is that they are a very small demographic
[19:35] <eylul[m]> remembers recently having to have had this conversation elsewhere
[19:35] <eylul[m]> yep 
[19:36] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, speaking of group #2, homeschool duties. Back later.
 Eickmeyer: LIES these are lies you just want to go to the bathroom or get away from the computer for a few minutes lol :P
 (just kidding)
[19:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> @teward001: I did that without announcing. :P
[19:37] <eylul[m]> xD
[19:37] <eylul[m]> eickmeyer go. the backlog will be here when you get back
[19:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'll leave a window open.
[19:38] <eylul[m]> namn I hope this at least helped you a little bit understanding what facebook side looks like
[19:38] <eylul[m]> I have absolutely no idea what the audience is like on twitter through
[19:39] <namn> TBH Twitter is not as good as a place for engagement, I consider Twitter and Mastodon a secondary focus kind of
[19:40] <namn> One should be present but in a different and less big way than on facebook
[19:40] <eylul[m]> mastodon is a nice place I find because it might lack in numbers but people we get are very highly engaged and in many ways offers a lot of feedback
[19:41] <namn> Now that is my view on it and I will work with whatever things that have been decided on
[19:41] <eylul[m]> twitter one thing about it is that (for some reason I cannot understand) the whole open source community is there
[19:41] <namn> Yeah, Mastodon are what I conside enthusiasts
[19:42] <eylul[m]> there is actually a fair number of professionals in mastodon
[19:42] <namn> Hmm, I think it might have to do with the political start of the use and branding of opensource software
[19:42] <eylul[m]> I dare say we have a much higher proportion of professionals then we do elsewhere.
[19:42] <namn> But I'm not sure
[19:42] <namn> I'd be inclined to agree
[19:43] <namn> Mastodon has more professionals and enthuisasts
[19:43] <eylul[m]> nods
[19:43] <eylul[m]> I will say also through that the professionals and enthusiasts we have on facebook group/page is more diverse
[19:44] <eylul[m]> diverse -> literally from more countries
[19:45] <namn> That is a thing to consider
[19:45] <eylul[m]> nods
[19:45] <namn> Inclusion of more than english in graphics could be beneficial
[19:46] <namn> Linux does really well in South America for example I know
[19:46] <eylul[m]> that and also realize that a good portion of these people are not there for alternative culture 
[19:46] <eylul[m]> exactly
[19:46] <namn> Biggest linux youtuber is from Brazil
[19:46] <eylul[m]> and it does because it is affordable. 
[19:46] <namn> Yeah
[19:46] <eylul[m]> well one of the reasons
[19:47] <eylul[m]> but yeah to a lot of these people this is genuinely an alternative that makes their lives easier
[19:47] <eylul[m]> not a political statement
[19:48] <namn> Everything is arguably political. It's hard to get besides it. Ubuntu itself engages in a lot of politics regarding national safety and privacy lately for example
[19:49] <namn> Speaking on the relationship with China and hackers
[19:50] <namn> As long as one distinguishes between what type of speech, like this is us engaging with the world as a business and not a political organization or person
[19:51] <eylul[m]> yes I know that argument of everything is political, yet that is not the focus. 
[19:52] <namn> I mean, it's important for our work
[19:53] <namn> At least in terms of marketing
[19:54] <namn> Just got an idea for the emote type post
[19:54] <namn> "Professional software shouldn't cost your shirt"
[19:56] <namn> Problem is that ubuntu studio can sound cheap
[19:56] <namn> in terms of lous
[19:56] <namn> lousy
[20:00] <namn> And I don't think it's enough to warrant an engagement
[20:00] <namn> Like proper facebook engagement
[20:01] <namn> "Professional software should respect your privacy" is one that I actually like
[20:02] <namn> Everyone agrees with it, but it also has a lot of force behind it
[20:04] <eylul[m]> do they? actually many people care more about ease of use than privacy. that is how we end up in the situation we are :) 
[20:04] <eylul[m]> not because they don't care. they simply don't have the time.
[20:09] <namn> I think they can value both
[20:10] <namn> I don't really care about what the actual message is per say
[20:10] <namn> I think about it as a song, what kind of emotional response can I illicit 
[20:11] <namn> The one about privacy has stronger emotional resonance, which is what I am looking for
[20:14]  * Eickmeyer[m] is reading the backscroll a bit
[20:15] <namn> This is for the second type of post, the one for tomorow
[20:15] <namn> "Own the software you use, don't let it own you"
[20:15] <namn> Maybe a bit too on the nose
[20:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> namn: You seem to be highly driven by the political and privacy arguments, moreso than the entire Ubuntu culture. Honestly, that doesn't at all fit with our ethos and culture, not just here within Ubuntu Studio, but Ubuntu more broadly.
[20:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> I understand your enthusasm for that, but that can't be the lens you see everything with.
[20:17] <Eickmeyer[m]> I'm just not 100% sure you're the right person for this, and I'm not 100% sure you're a good fit for the team here.
[20:17] <namn> I don't think I see everything through that lence.
[20:17] <namn> Well, that is unfortunate
[20:18] <namn> But any person working with social media and marketing would approach this the same way
[20:18] <namn> :P
 you'd have to prove that, because that mindset is not actually the case in a lot of marketing approaches.
[20:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> ^
[20:19] <namn> What kind of mindset?
 to quote Eickmeyer:
 > You seem to be highly driven by the political and privacy arguments, moreso than the entire Ubuntu culture. Honestly, that doesn't at all fit with our ethos and culture, not just here within Ubuntu Studio, but Ubuntu more broadly.
 that's the mindset
 that i am talking about
 STUPID KEYBOARD!  *yeets his computer out the window*
[20:20] <Eickmeyer[m]> Enter keys are hard.
[20:20] <namn> Well, I don't think that is true
[20:20] <namn> I just explained earlier that I'm looking for emotional resonance
[20:20] <namn> I mean, the privacy stuff are suggestions plainly because those are the best material I can think of right now
[20:21] <eylul[m]> Christoffer, I think what we are trying to say is that, that is not the best material
[20:21] <eylul[m]> based on our audience
[20:21] <eylul[m]> and that is what I think eickmeyer and teward001 especially are trying to communicate.
[20:21] <namn> That's false
[20:22] <namn> They don't think I fit the team because I am too political and they think I don't have a mind for anything outside that
[20:22] <teward> be aware of something:
[20:22] <teward> while i just simply support the team
[20:22] <teward> Eickmeyer **is the project leader**
[20:22] <teward> and therefore the one you have to convince
[20:22] <teward> if he says you are not fit for the team
[20:23] <teward> his word is law
[20:23] <teward> and there's not much you can say in counter to that.
[20:23] <namn> I don't dissagree with that.
[20:24] <namn> But that's the kind of response you give if you don't want to hear my side of the story.
[20:24] <namn> I've never argued to do anything but what has been decided
[20:24] <Eickmeyer> I love your enthusasm, really, I do. But I want to see better examples, because every single one is centered on privacy and politics. If you can come up with better examples, then cool! If not, then we will have to part ways.
[20:24] <teward> let me give a little tidbit I got from my marketing classes when I had to take them
[20:24] <teward> A marketing strategy **has to match the target audience**
[20:24] <namn> I've also tried to repeat that
[20:24] <teward> and their **target goals and needs*
[20:24] <teward> NOT privacy
[20:24] <teward> NOT politics
[20:25] <teward> but what **they want** and what the project/item gives to support their goals and needs
[20:25] <teward> not broad ideals that aren't geared for the project or target market
[20:25] <teward> for example
[20:25] <teward> my consulting LLC in the tech world
[20:25] <teward> I'm a security guy
[20:25] <teward> so I advertise i provide security and network experience in the IT world and have for the past five years, and have extensive experience
[20:25] <teward> I then go to quote testimonials in support of that from local small businesses
[20:26] <teward> that's my marketing model
[20:26] <teward> and my target audience - those companies needing IT support and IT Security/Networking support
[20:26] <teward> so I target *that* specifically
[20:26] <teward> i don't discuss politics
[20:26] <teward> I don't discuss privacy EXCEPT in the context of generic IT Security and current global market needs for IT SEcurity consultants and the concerns of most companies
[20:26] <teward> but tha'ts a **company**
[20:26] <teward> not a product.
[20:26] <teward> Ubuntu Studio's marketing point is NOT political.  It is NOT privacy.
[20:27] <teward> it's marketing point is that it provides a Linux OS that is geared towards audiophiles and designers who want a platform for audio/visual/digital artistry components and needs
[20:27] <teward> so if you are unable to gear a strategy with that in mind
[20:27] <namn> I think you guys are free to decide that on the matter. But I don't think it's anything but personal preference on how you want to run things here
[20:27] <teward> using facts and not political spin or propaganda
[20:27] <teward> then you are not a good fit as Eickmeyer said
[20:27] <teward> (and yes, I DO run my LLC, even though I'm full time employed)
[20:28] <eylul[m]> namn understand that when we explain about our target audience,  we did give you reasons. its the easy install of open source software that is otherwise very powerful, and has an installation difficulty as the main hurdle. it is quick access to discovery of many alternative software into a suite that is already curated for them. and you might think these are not important, but these are important for our audience
[20:28] <teward> ^ and that's your target with any marketing campaign
[20:30] <namn> Personally I think "easy installation" for example lack emotional resonance. It may fit with your target audience, but it isn't very strategic when used towards the facebook algorythm
[20:30] <eylul[m]> this might not look  important to you (it might even not be as important to me, or other savvy users, who are able to install things easily, and find software, or discover how they can interact) but it is for example important, very important to a more casual end user.
[20:31] <namn> No, I appreciate these things. But I'm discussing marketing
[20:31] <teward> okay, now we're going in a circle here
[20:31] <teward> because those points are CRUCIAL for marketing Studio to the target audience
[20:31] <namn> The algorythm doesn't care how much I like it as long as it doesn't gather engagement
[20:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> From the very beginning, I joined Ubuntu Studio with one thing in mind: what I, as a creative professional in audio/video/photography, wanted to see out of software. That's the lens through which I lead this.
[20:32] <namn> I understand
[20:32] <eylul[m]> emotional resonance: ease of use. comfortable, powerful, but works from the start. when adobe promotes a product on facebook, this is what they put forward, and it works.
[20:32] <eylul[m]> ease of use, convenience. these things are what we are going for. 
[20:32] <namn> I don't believe they make people engage on facebook though
[20:33] <namn> But I mean, I have no problem with you giving me your input on the marketing
[20:33] <eylul[m]> (wonders why eickmeyer was not moderator in first place)
[20:33] <teward> we gave you the input
[20:33] <Eickmeyer> So, let's stop with the circular arguments.
[20:33] <teward> and you basically said that you think we should do Y instead
[20:34] <namn> Yeah, a professional opinion
[20:34] <teward> this is now going in a circular argument - you've received input from the Project Leader that this approach you are taking is NOT in line with the goals of the project
[20:34] <namn> If you can't deal with that then I can't help. Not trying to be facetious
[20:34] <namn> No, this is not circular
[20:35] <teward> and now i'm going to go bash my head against upload sponsorship requests
[20:58] <Eickmeyer> teward: Go for it.
[21:46] <josefvin> so, as a lurker, I will chime in (hey free channel right!?) -- I consider myself technical. I am a SW professional for 6+ years mostly using linux. However as a musician (target audience) I do not professionally know a lot about how to set up jack, ardour, etc. I am very much interested in the curated, *supported* and preinstalled aspect of ubuntu studio
[21:49] <josefvin> I am not a pro musician. I don't have a lot of time for it and I want it to be easy. Windows or MacOS would be easier in many ways, but for many reasons I want linux to succeed. I'm not anti big corporations, they are currently a fact of life/necessary evil. But I want to have alternatives. The large collection of powerful software, curated and free, is too personally tempting to resist giving it a try. For me, the success 
[21:49] <josefvin> of this project is whether it works reaosnably well out of the box with minimal hacking around and stuff. Hacking around is cool and good, but for the basic tasks that I want to do *creatively* it is to be avoided
[21:49] <josefvin> I'll end my rant there
[21:50] <Eickmeyer[m]> josefvin: *slow clap*
[21:50] <josefvin> heh
[21:51] <eylul[m]> <3
[21:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> josefvin: This might be the first time I've been able to catch you.
[21:51] <josefvin> I've kept IRC up for several days now :P
[21:51] <eylul[m]> josefvin that's a lot of us re what you said. (also yeah well beta/release weeks are where people are sitting here pulling allnighters, or at least following the chat all day)
[21:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> Welll, you keep disconnecting then. Might be a connection issue.
[21:52] <eylul[m]> (generally through if you want to contribute, email lists are a great place, if we are not replying here)
[21:52] <eylul[m]> znc can be... temperemental. (well mine is)
[21:53] <josefvin> yeah. I have not posted much. I am on the testing and dev mailing lists. Trying to figure out best chat method... I signed up for matrix/riot and telegram as well but it all seems to bridge back here as the main spot. So I'm looking at setting up ZNC or something, not used a lot of IRC in the past
[21:53] <Eickmeyer[m]> I've been taking to weechat a little, but quassel is pretty easy to set-up.
[21:54] <eylul[m]> I would try quassel, before trying znc. znc is... a lot of overhead for a single user. 
[21:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> Same with weechat.
[21:54] <eylul[m]> is totally talking from experience re znc
[21:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> Back later, taking the dog out.
[21:55] <josefvin> [m] == moderator? matrix? *has lots of questions*
[21:55] <eylul[m]> josefvin, telegram only works with the devel channel, but works fine in my experience. 
[21:55] <eylul[m]> [m] is matrix
[21:55] <eylul[m]> moderator here is eickmeyer (and I think teward?)
[21:56] <eylul[m]> matrix works until the freenode bridge starts having issues
[21:56] <teward> only if Eickmeyer ops me
[21:56] <teward> I was acting as his agent when  using ops powers because he forgot the IRC commands
[21:56] <eylul[m]> (you might notice a really strange one sided conversation of eickmeyer having a conversation with an invisible person. that was me. you could see me chat on matrix side, but not on IRC side)
[21:57] <eylul[m]> teward I see.
[21:57] <eylul[m]> sorry didn't mean to distract you btw
[21:58] <eylul[m]> josefvin: also no problem having questions
[21:58] <josefvin> thanks for the info. I am trying to observe and read docs more before I bombard with the questions
[21:59] <eylul[m]> restrain is appreciated, but honestly. if you are stumped feelf ree to ask. 
[21:59] <josefvin> heard
[22:00] <eylul[m]> I cannot type but yeah that f was supposed to be attached to the 'ree'
[22:06] <Eickmeyer[m]> Reeeeee 😂
[22:06] <eylul[m]> xD
[22:06] <eylul[m]> also brb as I prepare some food
[22:07] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah, I've got house chores.