[01:55] <Eickmeyer> dragonfly-reverb will live in Backports for now. :/
[02:42] <OvenWerks> better than not at all.
[02:43] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I would suggest that Ardour6 be a separate package for at least a while to give people the chance to finish projects with 5.12
[02:44] <OvenWerks> The session file format is different and there are other differences that may affect the way a previously recorded session sounds
[02:45] <Eickmeyer> Well... ooo... that's touchy. When it comes to Ardour, when Ross merges my packaging back up to Debian, we'll likely go back to a Debian sync, which means we'll be at the mercy of whatever is decided there.
[02:45] <OvenWerks> (of course the may even be true from 5.12 in 19.10 and 5.12 in 20.04)
[02:45] <Eickmeyer> We *might* be able to put Ardour 5.12 in a PPA by itself.
[02:45] <Eickmeyer> Of course, this would be for GG onward.
[02:45] <OvenWerks> I know we had ardour and ardour 4 for a while
[02:45] <OvenWerks>  or was it ardour and ardour5?
[02:46] <OvenWerks> I think it was 3 and 4
[02:46] <Eickmeyer> Probably because Debian had it that way. It'll likely be ardour and ardour6, if it follows the same pattern.
[02:48] <OvenWerks> Then (if 60 is released in the next few weeks the way Robin is talking) 5.12 could be dropped for 20.10 and ardour6 become the new ardour
[02:48] <Eickmeyer> That's the way I'd want to go ideally, keeping 5.12 in 20.04 and in a PPA for those that need it in 20.10 onward.
[02:48] <OvenWerks> Basically if someone can't finish a mix in 6 months... a new or diff3erent sound is their problem
[02:49] <Eickmeyer> Uh... yeah. Totally.
[02:50] <Eickmeyer> Of course, I'm a live engineer, so if you couldn't finish the mix on the fly you had other problems.
[02:53] <OvenWerks> 6.0 is very much a better product and because mixbus came out first with most of the same code... most of the new bugs have been fixed (thankyou Ben)
[02:55] <Eickmeyer> Oh, cool! I plan on upgrading to Mixbus 6 tomorrow.
[14:57] <Guest38546> Hello, I have upgraded to 20.04 however i have noticed that Carla does not show up as a instrument plugin on LMMS. I was expecting this to be the case due to the Carla version upgrade
 Eickmeyer: ^ since I kno you're around
[15:09] <Eickmeyer> @teward001 he's in main and exited this channel.
 ah ok
[15:09] <Eickmeyer> We don't want those kinds of questions in this channel anyhow.
 it sucks IRC names aren't relayed here :)
 joins/parts*
 unreltaed you have a PM in your telegram :P
[15:44] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: do you even know how to use lmms? it does'n make sense to me, i open it and think now what?
[15:44] <Eickmeyer> I have no clue. I couldn't even figure out where to get the VST plugins in the UI.
[15:45]  * Eickmeyer makes mental note to drop it from 20.10
[15:45] <OvenWerks> some people like it
[15:46] <Eickmeyer> Oh, I know. Those people can install it from the repos. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[15:46] <OvenWerks> but they really do need to accept LV2 as the standard linux plugin. 
[15:47] <Eickmeyer> *sigh* Idk.... I just really don't like how the devs don't see upgrading from lv1 a priority.
[15:47] <OvenWerks> if you drop it put doesn't support lv2 as the reason
[15:47] <OvenWerks> :)
[15:47] <Eickmeyer> I think if I drop it, that might be the wake-up call they need. :)
[15:47] <OvenWerks> how does debian see VST3?
[15:48] <Eickmeyer> Debian doesn't like VST. Period. It tows the line of non-free. I think VST3 is like that since Steinberg won't even release it as open source.
[15:48] <OvenWerks> the headers are gpl
[15:49] <OvenWerks> the host code can be totaly open
[15:49] <OvenWerks> the plugin code can be too
[15:49] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. I don't know then. I just know that even Fedora has issues with VST.
[15:50] <OvenWerks> just not if one uses their tools to build
[15:51] <OvenWerks> Ardour 7 will support vst3 probably
[15:51] <Eickmeyer> That'd be cool.
[15:51] <Eickmeyer> Apparently lmms is working on lv2 for 1.3, whenver that gets released?
[15:54]  * OvenWerks is learning to use autotools :p
[15:55] <OvenWerks> "auto" in autotools is a lie I think
[15:58] <Eickmeyer> Ha! Indeed it is.
[15:59] <Eickmeyer> It's always fun when I'm packaging something and it requires "autobuild.sh" to be run before "autoconfig" and "automake". :P
[16:52] <OvenWerks> I have a very simple applet that has only one file mcpdisp.cc to compile (no .h file even) but it dos need to add to libs libjack and lib fltk.... and I can't even get that to work.
[16:54] <OvenWerks> it works fine with just the makefile... but getting automake to generate this is not working. It says add this line to this file but that file already has that line :P
[16:55] <OvenWerks> I want to have a configure script is all
[17:07] <OvenWerks> ok, success!!... well sort of. autoreconf which is not mentioned in any of these tutorials seems to like to be run frequently
[17:08] <OvenWerks> I finally have a makefile. I don't get an executable out of it yet... but that will come.
[17:09] <Eickmeyer> Yay
[17:09] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I thought the idea was to only have to run ./configure make and makeinstall
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> Ah.
[19:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> stevenjaycohen: I'm considering you part of the team now that you're a moderator on Reddit.
[19:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Welcome aboard.
 welcome
[19:42] <StevenJayCohen> Thank you
[19:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> stevenjaycohen: So, I can do a few introductions. You already know me. OvenWerks is basically the lead of development (ubuntustudio-controls is his baby among other things), eylul (azbulutlu on Telegram) is the lead of artwork and design/advises me on which graphics applications to have and proofreads stuff for the website, teward is an Ubuntu Core Dev that helps me get stuff into Ubuntu, and one other (Ross, aka rosco2) is our
[19:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> Debian developer who works mostly via email.
[19:46] <StevenJayCohen> Let me know other ways that I can help out
[19:49] <StevenJayCohen> Thanks OvenWerks I really appreciate all of the work you've done. I've recently migrated our whole recording studio to Ubuntu Studio -- not more mac or windows anywhere
 i also help advise on packaging issues that're chaotic to fix ;)
 but the team overall is well driven :)
 (and this is me via our Telegram bridge.)
[19:51] <StevenJayCohen> I was checking out riot.im and bridging to IRC when Eickmeyer pined me
[19:51] <StevenJayCohen> pinged*
[19:52] <StevenJayCohen> I've been working on a PWA and wanted to check out how riot built theirs.
[20:07] <StevenJayCohen> My most useful skills to this team may be my teaching/blogging background. I spent years teaching educators (non-geeks) how to use tech in the classroom, I've continued doing that by teaching narrators and actors how to self-record/edit/master in their home studios. And, I've been blogging since before WordPress was forked from cafelog. So, my skills are community facing, my tech skills make me more of a
[20:07] <StevenJayCohen> tester/hacker than a programmer, and if you need someone to work on documentation/etc, I'm your guy.
[20:08] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, then you're exactly the kind of person we're looking for.
[22:45] <eylul[m]> welcomeSteven Jay Cohen to team. :))
[22:47] <StevenJayCohen> Thanks eylul 
[22:48] <eylul[m]> by the way eickmeyer, I want to take a look at the long standing eyesore the screenshots at the website this week are, as it looks like I will find the time to do so, do you have a preference for the procedure for updating the content that is not version controlled (e.g. blurbs on front page, those screenshots etc - my suggestion would be just sticking all the new versions to wiki, and then copy pasting them in,
[22:48] <eylul[m]> but I am open to other ideas)
[22:49] <eylul[m]> by the way eickmeyer, I want to take a look at the long standing eyesore the screenshots are this week* I cannot construct sentences in english language, what else is new
[22:51] <Eickmeyer> eylul[m]: I already replaced them. :)
[22:51] <eylul[m]> oh?
[22:51] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, take a look.
[22:52] <Eickmeyer> Except the front page.
[22:52] <Eickmeyer> The tour is fixed.
[22:52] <eylul[m]> awesome!!!!!
[22:52] <eylul[m]> we should add Krita to the list on the tour
[22:53] <Eickmeyer> Agreed. I just replaced what was there.
[22:53] <eylul[m]> unless for some reason it doesn't get installed by default. (under the graphics category)
[22:53] <Eickmeyer> It does get installed by default.
[22:54] <eylul[m]> also an idea, how about we put the blurb on the top of each page as well so that there is a bit more context to the pages...
[22:54] <Eickmeyer> Sure.
[22:55] <eylul[m]> I'll do that now. that's pretty quick :) 
[22:55] <Eickmeyer> Sounds good.
[22:56] <Eickmeyer> One thing I noticed: We don't include Shotwell by default anymore, yet it's still on the photography page. Odd.
[22:56] <Eickmeyer> I mean, it's installable...
[22:57] <eylul[m]> it might have went during.. there was a pruning at some point, but I thought we updated the tour since then
[22:58] <eylul[m]> honestly it might be worth making a review of the software we preinstall, at some point. it has been a while since we last did that
[22:58] <Eickmeyer> I think next release Openshot might get the boot for shotcut. Openshot is much more feature-rich now, more like kdenlive.
[22:58] <eylul[m]> and I do know there is a few new photography tools that came out since then.
[22:58] <Eickmeyer> I think this next release is a perfect opportunity.
[22:58] <eylul[m]> kdenlive actually has been very actively developed, and is a lot more stable. 
[22:59] <Eickmeyer> Especially if we're going Plasma, which it feels like we are per consensus.
[22:59] <eylul[m]> I would keep the both and stick to the two. (kdenlive has been actively developed well for the past year) 
[22:59] <eylul[m]> nods
[22:59] <eylul[m]> there are also some new photography tools
[22:59] <Eickmeyer> I just don't feel like we need to have two fully-featured video editors. I'd rather go with kdenlive.
[22:59] <Eickmeyer> Pitivi needs to go too, it's very buggy.
[23:00] <eylul[m]> oh you want to lose openshot?
[23:00] <eylul[m]> I would say one out of pitivi and openshot
[23:00] <eylul[m]> not both
[23:00] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. Openshot used to be something to get quick stuff done with, now it competes with kdenlive. I'd replace it with shotcut, since shotcut now fits that mold.
[23:01] <eylul[m]> I would like to make sure one side has all the features other has
[23:01] <eylul[m]> but let me get back to you on that, after the release?
[23:01] <Eickmeyer> Sure.
[23:01] <eylul[m]> the problem with the video editing programs is that not all of them have some features  (like there still are some reasons to use blender)
[23:02] <Eickmeyer> Well, blender isn't a video editor, per se. It's a 3-D modellilng program that *happens* to have a video editor.
[23:02] <eylul[m]> but I mean we do keep rawtherapee and darktable together :))
[23:03] <eylul[m]> yet it still has features as a video editor that other software doesn't. :) 
[23:03] <Eickmeyer> Rawtherapee works for doing quick raw files. Darktable does that *and* catalogs them.
[23:03] <eylul[m]> (although kdenlive is catching up fast, so not sure where that count is these days :)) )
[23:03] <Eickmeyer> I see Blender as closer in style to After Effects, Kdenlive close to Premiere.
[23:04] <eylul[m]> darktable can do some pretty sophisticated edits, and anything short of compositing (you can technically composite with it, but it is.. hacky :P) raw therapee I haven't used it lately, but there is a fork of it that is called art. ergo. I really need to look what is going on. 
[23:04] <eylul[m]> true!
[23:04] <StevenJayCohen> A Venn Diagram on the website would be helpful
[23:05] <StevenJayCohen> showing the overlap between the apps
[23:05] <eylul[m]> :)
[23:05] <eylul[m]> likes the idea
[23:05] <Eickmeyer> Darktable is a lot like Adobe Lightroom.
[23:06] <StevenJayCohen> This is what made me think of suggesting it
[23:06]  * StevenJayCohen uploaded an image: image.png (754KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/eoVyESdIMRRcHhfxpmQuwcvZ >
[23:06] <StevenJayCohen> In the same way, you could show how each app overlaps others in functionality
[23:06] <Eickmeyer> TIL I'm an animal farm. 😝
[23:06] <StevenJayCohen> It would help people new to designing on Linux understand what does what
[23:07] <eylul[m]> Darktable is very much equivalent of that 
[23:07] <eylul[m]> except in some ways it is better subjective opinion. but hey! better noise reduction and it definitely works a lot better with infrared photography - shuts up
[23:07] <eylul[m]> I really like the idea.
[23:08] <eylul[m]> that could be integrated into the reviewing all the apps project through?
[23:08] <eylul[m]> that way it is not two rounds of work...
[23:08] <StevenJayCohen> App selection is subjective, always is (vim vs emacs as an example)
[23:08] <eylul[m]> you are here is probably firefox, ubuntustudio-controls and libreoffice ducks the incoming object
[23:08]  * Eickmeyer throws nothing
[23:09] <eylul[m]> unless you are a student. :) 
[23:09] <eylul[m]> well come on libreoffice addition at least deserved a popcorn thrown :))
[23:09] <StevenJayCohen> So, if it's free but closed source, it can't be in the Ubuntu Studio install, right?
[23:09] <eylul[m]> (libreoffice is actually in publishing category btw)
[23:09] <eylul[m]> (it actually has quite a few styling based features)
[23:10] <eylul[m]> short answer is yes.
[23:10] <Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: Correct. It must be licensed to be freely redistributable and open source.
[23:11] <eylul[m]> (I mean some codecs and such do come with ubuntu... sort of)
[23:11] <StevenJayCohen> A venn diagram per section would be great (audio, photo, video, pub)
[23:11] <StevenJayCohen> show the DAW overlap
[23:11] <eylul[m]> audio photo video, 3D pub
[23:12] <StevenJayCohen> right
[23:12] <eylul[m]> yes I just added that category in
[23:12] <eylul[m]> (is trying really not to get sidetracked, the week of release candidate)
[23:16] <eylul[m]> Also Eickmeyer: permission to add Features: Audio to the title (previously it was just: Audio - which looks a bit out of context when you are viewing the page by itself)
[23:17] <Eickmeyer> eylul[m]: Yeah, sounds good.
[23:17] <Eickmeyer> Would probalby need that for all of those pages.
[23:17] <eylul[m]> I am doing all of them at once
[23:17] <eylul[m]> was more giving the example of it
[23:20] <Eickmeyer> Ah, makes sense.
[23:20] <eylul[m]> :)
[23:21] <eylul[m]> oh grumble.
[23:22] <eylul[m]> it also changed the menu 
[23:22] <eylul[m]> http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/audio/
[23:25] <Eickmeyer> eylul[m]: Oof, yeah, that doesn't work. Sorry.
[23:26] <eylul[m]> that should be fixable through
[23:26] <eylul[m]> give me a moment let me see if I can fix it via menu
[23:26] <eylul[m]> I think it can be
[23:27] <eylul[m]> yeah it can be fixed
[23:27] <eylul[m]> fixes
[23:27] <eylul[m]> then shakes fist at too smart wordpress
[23:28] <Eickmeyer> Yes, that works.
[23:30] <eylul[m]> Todo: add a blurb for krita, update the blurb for graphics.
[23:40] <eylul[m]> replaced openshot with GIMP for photography as that should have never happened. but TODO: add many photography software we have.
[23:49] <eylul[m]> I'll do a few emergency fixes I see to these later tonight or tomorrow for very obvious problems but we can review the rest when we do the inventory of where we are. now i need to go send my students their take-home midterms. 
[23:54] <Eickmeyer> Ok, sounds good. :)