[02:44] <pragmaticenigma> el: I'll continue here
[02:45] <el> pragmaticenigma: there should be nothing to continue. you were corrected when giving out inaccurate information and now you're being defensive and accusing housecat of bad faith advice.
[02:45] <pragmaticenigma> The issue is the information is incomplete... the release team member was not asked anything about what happens when 20.10 starts development. Which was the point of the entire discussion. That is why I'm calling it incorrect
[02:46] <housecat> 20.10 starts development before the release of 20.04.1, pragmaticenigma.
[02:47] <pragmaticenigma> exactly... and when it starts, the file at "https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-development" would be updated to include that new development release... meaning that a machine set to "development" which is what "do-release-upgrade" performs will cause
[02:47] <housecat> As I have told you and confirmed with a release team member, that file will not be updated until after the release of 20.04.1.
[02:48] <housecat> or rather https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release-lts-development , which is the actual file in question here
[02:48] <pragmaticenigma> so incorrect information all around
[02:48] <pragmaticenigma> how lovely
[02:49] <housecat> Please elaborate on what that comment refers to.
[02:50] <pragmaticenigma> there is no published documentation on how any of this actually works... so no one could really give anything concrete, including myself
[02:51] <Unit193> The people that actually make the changes can.
[02:52] <pragmaticenigma> right. my problem is when it's not documented anywhere, it's really hard to believe or affirm what is fact and what isn't
[02:52] <housecat> Or people who have experience from supporting previous LTS -> LTS upgrade scenarios.
[02:53] <el> perhaps listening when someone says "i went and talked to the team who does the releases, here is a log" instead of accusing them of being suspicious
[02:53] <el> _that_ behaviour is not in line with the expected conduct of the channel
[02:53] <housecat> Some things just aren't on Google or on ubuntu.com, and while that's regrettable, it's a fact of life.
[02:54] <housecat> You're welcome to update the community help wiki or some other reference source so that other people do not make the same mistake in future.
[02:54] <Unit193> Lack of documentation is a problem, but it doesn't make something that's an internal process "false"
[02:55] <pragmaticenigma> listening isn't the problem. I've always followed a trust but verify principle. So it's great and appreciated someone took the effort to reach out to a member of the dev team. And I appreciate the effort.
[02:55] <el> calling someone suspicious because they use a debian pastebin instead of an ubuntu one is not a good way of showing appreciation
[02:55] <housecat> 02:24:54 < pragmaticenigma> housecat: you're making baseless assumptions without putting any proof of your statements. In all honestly, you don't know, so don't make your assumptions out to be fact without some sort of published documentation on the official ubuntu domain
[02:55] <housecat> i do not think i would call this "trusting"
[02:56] <housecat> 02:39:21 < pragmaticenigma> housecat: it's also hearsay... Until I see it published and documented on an Ubuntu domain website
[02:56] <housecat> or that
[02:56] <el> so now that this is all cleared up i have better things to do such as put on a mask and some gloves and go try avoid the silly virus in my local supermarket
[02:56] <housecat> Quite frankly, your attitude was absolutely unacceptable, and I hope that this experience will demonstrate the downsides of it.
[02:57] <housecat> but, since I'm the one who has to drive el to said supermarket, I will leave it at that. Hopefully Unit193 can clear up any lingering concerns.
[03:10] <valorie> as someone who has watched multiple LTS > LTS transitions, I can say that what el and housecat are saying is absolutely correct
[03:10] <valorie> and the release team does not have the duty to document their processes for the public
[04:36] <el> it'd be nice if they did though tbh
[04:43] <housecat> tbh i felt bad just going in there and asking them, they have better things to do. but, it was a quiet time and they're nice.
[06:04] <valorie> el, agreed
[13:35] <hggdh> there is a lot of tools and experience on doing the release. I do not mind not knowing (or having forgotten) most of it. But I agree that the *visible effects* should be documented somewhere
[15:06] <fcanela_> Hello, I interacted with the bot in a joking way and it seems like it sent something here. Sorry for that,just having fun on the #ubuntu-release-party
[15:06] <housecat> no worries, it happens sometimes, we just ignore it :)
[15:07] <fcanela_> Thanks and sorry again. Have a great day!
[15:19] <h00k> d'aw.
[15:19] <h00k> I just read up ^