[00:00] <Eickmeyer> Well, too late now.
[00:05] <OvenWerks> window handles are pretty narrow and impossible to grab
[00:07] <OvenWerks> there, fixed...
[00:11] <OvenWerks> xfce4-color-settings just crashed... maybe I give it nothing to do :)
[00:12] <OvenWerks> but it seemed to crash on applet exit so maybe a false positive
[00:13] <Eickmeyer> It's a false positive and a known issue upstream.
[00:14] <Eickmeyer> The window handle issue is also known, and it's not necessarily theme specific.
[00:14] <OvenWerks> hmm moving to a new theme seemed to help.
[00:14] <OvenWerks> but then I have always switched to something with wide borders off the top
[00:15] <Eickmeyer> Yes, but the Xfce developers know that they need to have better window management in Xfwm to handle any theme.
[00:15] <Eickmeyer> Even Graybird (Xubuntu's theme) has the same issue.
[00:15] <Eickmeyer> And it's considered Xfce's standard.
[00:15] <OvenWerks> I use Moheli
[00:16] <Eickmeyer> Yes, but you go for function over form.
[00:16] <OvenWerks> (with Numix colours)
[00:17] <OvenWerks> Gives me a nice orange title bar
[00:17]  * OvenWerks installs synaptic
[00:19] <OvenWerks> none of the menu icons are oversized this time even from right click on the desktop
[00:20] <Eickmeyer> Status on respin and everything is here and gets updated as they go: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/focal-fossa-20-04-lts-final-release-status-tracking/15366
[00:21] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: BTW, the plymouth screen on ISO live boot is different from shutdown and install startup
[00:22] <OvenWerks> I don't know if thats good or bad
[00:22] <Eickmeyer> Plymouth or grub? Do you mean the progress bar?
[00:22] <OvenWerks> but it does give a lot more info while booting
[00:22] <OvenWerks> ya progress bar instead of spining dot
[00:23] <Eickmeyer> That's just for the validation check. I had nothing to do with that, and it's not part of a normal boot.
[00:23] <OvenWerks> I figured I was just surprised (twice)
[00:57] <OvenWerks> I like the CDE theme. Reall easy to grab handles
[01:00] <StevenJayCohen> I agree, I think defaulting to nothing makes more sense
[01:01] <StevenJayCohen>  * I agree, I think defaulting to not mounting CDs makes more sense
[01:04] <OvenWerks> as Eickmeyer said it seems kde already does this
[01:07] <OvenWerks> here is the theme I am trying: https://imgur.com/0RK9566.png
[01:08] <OvenWerks> There are some things not quite right with it. when I took the screen shot, I selected area and then the whole screen went grey so I had to guess at the area.
[01:08] <OvenWerks> I am guessing it doesn't handle alpha very well
[01:10] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we lost simnple scanner? it got renamed? we got something better?
[01:13] <OvenWerks> simple scanner got renamed
[01:13] <OvenWerks> and it does not follow the desktop theme.... it has been gnomed....  :P
[01:14] <OvenWerks> the window handles are impossible to grab
[01:14]  * OvenWerks hopes plasma comes with a better scanner app
[01:25] <Eickmeyer> !info skanlite focal
[01:25] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: ^
[01:26] <OvenWerks> that is what comes in kde?
[01:26] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: By default? I don't know. RikMills? ^
[01:27] <OvenWerks> if it's better we can add it next cycle
[01:27]  * OvenWerks is loading kubuntu next
[01:31] <OvenWerks> anyway, everything seems to work despite all my drama...
[01:39] <Eickmeyer> Heh
[08:37] <RikMills> OvenWerks: yes, skanlite
[08:41] <StevenJayCohen> <OvenWerks "here is the theme I am trying: h"> That is a nice CDE theme.
[08:44] <StevenJayCohen> This is sort of the KDE of where we're at now: https://store.kde.org/p/1229134/
[08:48] <StevenJayCohen> wow, people will do anything if you let them: https://store.kde.org/p/1157516/
[08:50] <RikMills> StevenJayCohen: you can still build and run CDE on Ubuntu!
[08:51] <RikMills> OvenWerks: ^
[08:54] <StevenJayCohen> I do love that
[08:55] <StevenJayCohen> You're making me want to play with GNUStep stuff again. Stop it!
[08:58] <RikMills> StevenJayCohen: https://i.imgur.com/alS8LhF.jpg
[08:58] <RikMills> real CDE on bionic
[09:00] <StevenJayCohen> scrollbar doesn't look right
[09:01] <RikMills> that is because firefox uses the gtk one, no matter what the system thinks
[09:04] <StevenJayCohen> foo
[09:12] <StevenJayCohen> I do like Materia, even Materia-KDE
[09:15] <RikMills> new build for you lot coming soon
[10:04] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: I'm awake, and smoke testing here shortly.
[10:04] <Eickmeyer> (was up at 3am yesterday, my body seemed to think it's a good idea)
[10:07] <RikMills> tsimonq2 is just living UK time today :P
[10:09] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2 is insane, and I'm missing his presence at LFNW this year. Really, missing everyone at LFNW this year.
[10:10] <tsimonq2> RikMills: So, I've been up since 2 PM yesterday. It's now 5 AM.
[10:10] <tsimonq2> I'm actually trying (and failing) to reach a stopping point to go get another energy drink.
[10:10]  * RikMills hands you a redbull
[10:10] <tsimonq2> I already have a case, but thanks. :P
[10:10] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Insomnia sucks a fat one.
[10:11] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: No, I did this by choice.
[10:11] <Eickmeyer> Oh!
[10:11] <RikMills> LOL
[10:11] <Eickmeyer> Well, in my case it's insomnia.
[10:11] <tsimonq2> True.
[10:11] <tsimonq2> I've found... other ailments if I can't fall sleep for more than like 30 mins.
[10:11] <RikMills> 'SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK'
[10:11] <tsimonq2> ^^^
[10:11] <StevenJayCohen> Ha
[10:11] <tsimonq2> "I don't sleep, I just rest my eyes."
[10:12] <Eickmeyer> I guess I'll sleep when I'm dead.
[10:12] <tsimonq2> Precisely.
[10:12] <StevenJayCohen> you guys deserve a brain break
[10:12] <StevenJayCohen> (I mean that in a good way)
[10:12] <StevenJayCohen> sot of a brain spa... that doesn't sound much better
[10:13] <Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: In case you're wondering, tsimonq2 mostly leads Lubuntu. Mostly. :D
[10:13] <tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: I schedule my time off.
[10:13] <StevenJayCohen> I just installed Lubuntu on a Dell Netbook, kudos tsimonq2 !
[10:14] <tsimonq2> When I'm not grinding for cash to throw into these markets or hacking away on some project that may or may not include Lubuntu, I do sometimes relax. Sometimes.
[10:14] <tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: :D
[10:14] <tsimonq2> Yeah, I may or may not be the Team Lead.
[10:15] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Oh and btw, something something sphinx not going in, something something stuck in proposed, something something ping Eickmeyer.
[10:15] <StevenJayCohen> I need breaks, without them, on some issues, I just spin my wheels. I'm that guy who falls asleep with a problem and wakes up with an idea
[10:15] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I was raging at the CI when I read that, so best to just go check out release.
[10:15] <StevenJayCohen> tsimonq2: Team lead and team then? I've been there (1 man dept)
[10:15] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: I saw, and something something respin being smoke-tested...
[10:16] <tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: I figured out that by carefully planning my breaks and relaxation, I about double my productivity. I bet RikMills can imagine me at double speed...
[10:16] <tsimonq2> StevenJayCohen: Nope, our team has about 10 official members and 15 others that I'd say take care of various things.
[10:16] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Throw it at the wall. Hard. Did it break? No? Ship it.
[10:18] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: That's about where I'm at with it. If it boots, it's good. :D
[10:18] <RikMills> tsimonq2: yikes!
[10:20] <Eickmeyer> It won't take me long to test. 90% SSD setup here now.
[10:23] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Also, re: sphinx, looks like they pushed it through.
[10:25] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: Right. :)
[10:25] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: sphinx> Nice.
[10:25] <tsimonq2> RikMills: That's what I've been up to the last few months, testing myself and my limits.
[10:25] <Eickmeyer> sphinx = something in Egypt (I don't use it, but it looks interesting)
[10:26] <RikMills> tsimonq2: hopefully non-destructive testing
[10:27] <tsimonq2> Eickmeyer: I think it's funny that they ping you about that but Lubuntu and Kubuntu are the flavors who actually use it.
[10:27] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Right??
[10:27] <tsimonq2> RikMills: Non-destructive generally, yes. For me? No comment.
[10:43] <Eickmeyer> OMG... "The download doesn't use SSL!" "Then verify the checksum" "But that could've been compromised too!" *facepalm*
[10:47] <RikMills> sigh
[10:50] <tsimonq2> Some people's kids.
[10:52] <Eickmeyer> I'm about ready to punt this person.
[10:59]  * RikMills gets popcorn and joins
[11:02] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Meh, they're gone. They didn't know today is release day for 20.04, which means they're living under a rock and not paying any attention anyhow.
[11:03] <RikMills> lol
[11:05] <StevenJayCohen> Just read the thread sigh
[11:06] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. I don't think I've facepalmed so hard in my entire life.
[12:01] <StevenJayCohen> Very interesting, Kubuntu is #2
[12:01]  * StevenJayCohen uploaded an image: image.png (65KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/BfOtecVmJrPEkezXrDjomAkt >
[12:06] <RikMills> o_O
[12:08] <Eickmeyer> BTW, with the release announcement for Ubuntu Studio will also be the announcement of switching to Plasma for the next release.
[12:08] <RikMills> :D
[12:09] <StevenJayCohen> <RikMills "o_O"> Just assume that everyone who checked Official Ubuntu also checked one of the others as well and the numbers make more sense.
[12:10] <RikMills> still, I would have expecterd mate
[12:10] <RikMills> but hey :)
[12:10] <Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: "U MeAN I cAn LiKe MOrE ThAN 1??!?"
[12:17] <StevenJayCohen> Plasma is slick. Despite what the owners of KDE do to undermine it, they can't kill the slickness of it.
[15:06] <OvenWerks> why does plasma want to open every html:// in gwenview? which then fails anyway
[15:07] <StevenJayCohen> You sound like me complaing about evince
[15:08] <OvenWerks> looking at this: https://store.kde.org/p/1229134/  how does the user figure out which window has focus?
[15:09] <Eickmeyer> Shade of titlebar text.
[15:09] <OvenWerks> totally useless
[15:09] <Eickmeyer> Length of shadows.
[15:10] <OvenWerks> to me both windows look the same
[15:10] <OvenWerks> decorationwise
[15:11] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: If we used the themes you like, nobody would ever download Studio because aesthetics is what sells.
[15:12] <OvenWerks> Ack! I press the centre mouse button on the desktop and now I have a paste it note I can't get rid of
[15:13] <Eickmeyer> O_O
[15:13] <Eickmeyer> Press/hold with left button anywhere on that note, it will give you a close box.
[15:14] <Eickmeyer> Cool trick, though.
[15:14] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: this is one place where instead of themes having a tool that would allow just changing the colour of the window decorations
[15:15] <OvenWerks> (like there used to be)
[15:15] <Eickmeyer> Uhhh... there is something built-in to the Plasma Settings Manager that lets you color anything any color you want.
[15:15] <OvenWerks> the theme itself is whatever people like and I am ok with that.
[15:16] <OvenWerks> but usability should not require going through every theme in the world and trying them all out
[15:16] <OvenWerks> I am not sure there still is such a tool. It seems to me a year agho I could find it
[15:17] <Eickmeyer> Well, Breeze is pretty obvious which window has focus (dark titlebar vs light).
[15:17] <OvenWerks> That one is better yes
[15:17] <StevenJayCohen> So, again Vimix isn't much different than Materia but it uses the red yellow green dots (think macOS) as window decorations that go grey when not in focus. It's accompanying icon theme has some positives, but isn't what I'm talking about here.
[15:17] <OvenWerks> and the handle width, even if not visible still seems to be easily grabable
[15:17] <StevenJayCohen> Breeze is also more standard
[15:18] <Eickmeyer> So, if you go to System Settings > Application Style > Window Decorations, there's a pen in the corner of each theme. Go to your active theme and change it to whatever color you want.
[15:18] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: nothing is standard
[15:19] <OvenWerks> StevenJayCohen: or to put it another way, what is standard is so different from one year to the next, no one can keep up with it
[15:20] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: ah, when I hover over the theme the pen shows up.
[15:20] <Eickmeyer> Exactly.
[15:21] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: well some themes have more options than others...
[15:21] <Eickmeyer> Probably true. I haven't done it myself except with Breeze on Fedora, because Fedora's KDE spin uses blue titlebars.
[15:22] <OvenWerks> breeze has the most options and thge only colour I can change is the colour of the shadow
[15:22] <StevenJayCohen> What I meant by standard is that Breeze is a KDE theme with optional GTK stylings whereas MAteria is a GTK theme that has optional KDE styling. So, for a KDE distro to choose Materia as a default seems non-standard.
[15:22] <Eickmeyer> Oh shoot... wrong place.
[15:23] <Eickmeyer> System Settings > Colors > Edit to your hearts content.
[15:23] <StevenJayCohen> And, I really like Materia, it's my default and will stay my personal default
[15:25] <StevenJayCohen> I do find it odd that we are talking Gregarious Gastropod on Focal Focca's release day
[15:31]  * OvenWerks was finished with the release a while ago  :)
[15:33] <Eickmeyer> Giddy Gnu
[15:36] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: odd thing happening. kubuntu with Studio on top.
[15:36] <Eickmeyer> Oh?
[15:36] <OvenWerks> after install there are a pile of applications listed as no longer required... 
[15:37] <Eickmeyer> Which applications?
[15:37] <OvenWerks> many of them are xfce packages so I am not worried about those
[15:37] <Eickmeyer> Oh, that makes sense.
[15:37] <OvenWerks> but: papirus-icon-theme ubuntustudio-icon-theme?
[15:37] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: That seems odd. Did you install ubuntustudio-icon-theme from -installer?
[15:38] <OvenWerks> yes
[15:38] <Eickmeyer> I'll have to test.
[15:38] <OvenWerks> as part of one of the packages
[15:38] <OvenWerks> branding maybe?
[15:38] <Eickmeyer> Branding maybe.
[15:39] <Eickmeyer> I'll take a look. If one uninstalls materia, it would render all of Branding not needed.
[15:39] <Eickmeyer> Which means anything it has as a depends would be not needed.
[15:44] <OvenWerks> hmmm, after I have selected one of the Studio icon themes a bunch of icons have vanished
[15:47] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Might need a log out/in.
[15:49] <OvenWerks> The gtk3 windows still look goofy but at least plasma forces the BG colour
[15:50] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, that's one thing that's nice about it. You can select any GTK theme and the color preferences transfer now.
[15:51] <Eickmeyer> GTK2 doesn't respond that way, an unfortunate limitation of GTK2.
[15:53] <OvenWerks> Well kubuntu has native applications for just about averything
[15:54] <Eickmeyer> Yep. Pretty much.
[15:54] <OvenWerks> I happen to like the gtk version of sudoku
[15:55] <OvenWerks> wierd, system setting does not seem to have a tool for setting the desktop backdrop. I have to left click on the desktop for that.
[15:56] <dax> i like the sudoku version that's in sgt-puzzles. some other great stuff in there too
[15:56] <dax> not sure what toolkit the version in ubuntu uses, it's gtk3 on my gentoo
[15:56] <OvenWerks> forgot about that one.
[15:58] <Eickmeyer> I like the Solitaire (KPatience). It's nice and smooth.
[15:58] <OvenWerks> yaeh I install that in xfce
[16:04]  * OvenWerks fixed his middle button
[16:10] <OvenWerks> fstab fixed, time for a reboot
[17:52] <Eickmeyer> https://ubuntustudio.org/2020/04/ubuntu-studio-20-04-lts-released/
[20:20] <StevenJayCohen> Eickmeyer: When you have a chance, could you replace the PH in my name with a V? I'd appreciate it. Guessing you have a friend or family member that's a PH Stephen.
[20:21] <StevenJayCohen> Thanks for the mention :)
[23:10] <Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: Hey, you're part of the team now, so don't mention it. Honestly, no clue where I got the PH from; in the second mention about your studio I managed to get it right. :D
[23:29] <josefvin> congrats to you all. Anybody taking a break before working on next release? :P
[23:51] <StevenJayCohen> Thank you
[23:51] <StevenJayCohen> Seeing this: Community +linuxallstars:matrix.org not found
[23:58] <StevenJayCohen> Can't join it shrug