[00:12] <aabbcc> Hi all, I don't know if I'm using IRC corectly, but I'm running into a bizarre problem installing kubuntu 20.04
[00:12] <aabbcc> and am looking for thoughts/help
[00:15] <aabbcc> my Plasma Shell is massively scaled up, and I'm not sure why
[00:15] <aabbcc> feels like running in 800x600 res, but in high res if that makes sense?
 @aabbcc, Did you start in safe mode?
[00:21] <aabbcc> @DarinMiller, I did when I installed it
[00:22] <aabbcc> I started it regularly this time
 what is your native screen resolution and do you have an NVidia card?
 Hey guys! Do you know if the backport ppa will have the same "issue" as in 18.04 meaning that the Plasma version will be stuck on 5.18?
 The backport ppa for 20.04 that is.
 hi, new to linux here. is there a way for me to upgrade to 20.04 lts from 19.10 using the iso file? `sudo do-release-upgrade` says there aren't any new releases yet
 try: `sudo do-release-upgrade`  -d
 "`sudo do-release-upgrade`" will not work until the point release (20.04.1) which is schedule for July release.
 thank you :)
 So, how's 20.04 workin' out thus far for y'all that have upgraded already?  (I'm plannin' to upgrade mine here over the next day or two sometime.  Just busy freeing up the HD space for the download.)
 @Linuxophil, The backports packages depend on how fast other dependencies change.  Backports should continue to support new releases of plasma, frameworks, app as long as they depend on QT 5.12.x  If the QT dependency increase above 5.12, newer backport versions of the above will most likely cease.
 @dryllmedaddy, Welcome to Linux, BTW.  Enjoy learnin' all the fun new stuff you can do.  😁
 @blooalien, thank you! I'm really enjoying it thus far
 Overriding the default version of QT can issues with non-KDE apps that were not build with the newer version of QT and rebuilding all qt dependent apps in the Canonical library is beyond the support scope of Kubuntu.
[01:07] <aabbcc> @DarinMiller sorry I had to get up from the PC, Native screen res is 1920x1080 and I have an Nvidia Geforce GTX 570
 @dryllmedaddy, The more you learn, the more you'll find you enjoy it.  It's a ridiculously powerful and customizable operating system.  :)
 You may find this website useful → https://alternativeto.net/ ← It'll help you find native Linux alternatives to most software you know the names of.  It's saved me so much time searching since my own switch to Linux ages ago.  :)
 @aabbcc, Were you able to resolve the large display issue?  If not, ensure to install NVidia drivers and force your fond DP to 96 (in system settings).  Let me know if more detailed instructions are required.
 @blooalien, this is really handy. thank you again :D
 @dryllmedaddy, Welcome.  Enjoy.  :)
[01:16] <aabbcc> @DarinMiller is that "Found DP?" Where is system settings? I don't see that under Display configuration
 Oh, speaking of Android...  If you have an Android phone or tablet, look into a program called KDE Connect.  Makes your phone/tablet and your KDE desktop into the best of friends.  :)
 System Settings -> Fonts, check the Force font DPI box and set it 96.
 Restart and open apps and from a terminal, run "plasmashell —replace &" to see the full effects of the dpi changes ( i.e. in the panels).
[01:20] <aabbcc> @DarinMiller Thank you! I'll give it a shot! I appreciate this very much
 Restart any^
 Is the proprietary NVidia driver installed?
[01:25] <aabbcc> @DarinMiller  Yes, I installed iwth proprietary, and it's selected.  The problem is solved, thank you very much!
 excellent :)
[01:25] <aabbcc> for something like this, I'm surrised I was having so much trouble looking it up
[01:25] <aabbcc> You're the real MVP
 Fully understand.  I struggled with the same issue back when I first started using linux and found problem hard to solve with internet searches.
 If you knew what caused the problem, then you could narrow the search like "large fonts nvidia driver kubuntu" which would lead to something like https://www.hecticgeek.com/2018/01/kubuntu-17-10-fonts-big-nvidias-driver/
 But how is a new user supposed know problem?   And that the beauty of forums like this. :)
[01:37] <valorie> exactly, irc is indispensible!
[01:56] <ApprovedCargo91> Hi, I'm running into an issue with both Kubuntu 18.04.4 LTS and Kubuntu 20.04 LTS where I think the amdgpu driver isn't being loaded properly? I get a black screen after selecting Ubuntu in GRUB, but when I look at my kernel log it seems like the system has booted up fine. If I add "nomodeset" to my boot parameters before booting, I am able to use
[01:56] <ApprovedCargo91> the system as normal (but there are some graphical issues such as tearing because the correct driver is not loaded). I've got a Ryzen 5 2600 and an R9 Fury - has anyone else run into these kinds of issues? I've tried a variety of solutions I found online over the past few days but nothing has done the trick.
 I have no experience with AMD cards.  You may poke around Phoronix forums and see if anybody left any AMD hints.  Michel at Phoronix covers AMD all the time...
[02:04] <ApprovedCargo91> Ok, I'll try there. Thanks!
[02:06] <valorie> ApprovedCargo91: have you tried typing "drivers" into krunner?
[02:06] <valorie> alt+space
[02:07] <valorie> it should take you right to the systemsettings for choosing and installing the correct drivers
[02:10] <ApprovedCargo91> If you're talking about the Driver Manager, it says that no additional drivers are available
[02:11] <ApprovedCargo91> Also, I think I read somewhere that amdgpu has been built into the kernel since some time ago
[02:11] <ApprovedCargo91> I freshly installed 20.04 LTS just now and there's already an amdgpu folder under /lib/firmware
[02:18] <Guest_85> hi
[02:18] <Guest_85> i cnat install wifi drivers.  help
 Hey guys! I struggle with setting up a samba share on Kubuntu 18.04. The tutorials on the net seem to all be about Gnome. Dolphin is not help. Just states that Samba is not installed.
 @Guest_85, Hi! Type "drivers" into the search of the menu (hit the windows button first).
[02:19] <Guest_85> no, it wont connect to wifi so i cant download drivers.. plus my drivers arent supported..
 Then wait for about a minute. Then pick one of the options.
[02:19] <Guest_85> i need to install the drivers via usb, is possible ?
[02:20] <valorie> driver manager is sorta broken
 @Guest_85, Can you give us details about your hardware?
 @valorie, Which Kubuntu?
[02:20] <Guest_85> lenovo ideapad 330
[02:20] <Guest_85> git clone https://github.com/tomaspinho/rtl8821ce.git
[02:20] <Guest_85> that works.. but how to install it via usb?
[02:20] <valorie> plain old ubuntu-drivers should work
 @valorie, Hey valorie! If you dont mind: Hey guys! I struggle with setting up a samba share on Kubuntu 18.04. The tutorials on the net seem to all be about Gnome. Dolphin is not help. Just states that Samba is not installed.
[02:21] <valorie> but not the old kubuntu-drivers
 Any ideas?
[02:21]  * valorie is not a guy
[02:21] <valorie> !samba
 LOL!
[02:21] <valorie> there has been a lot of work recently on samba shares
[02:21] <Guest_85> valorie. tey dont.. i have to use that in terminal.. but i have no ethernet. so need it on usb
[02:22] <Guest_85> otherwise i cant even download the drivers
[02:22] <valorie> so I imagine it is much better on 20.04
[02:22] <Guest_85> so im on windows.. then cna download them. then put on to usb and install into linux ?
 @valorie, Thanks. I found lots of tutorials to do it on the CLI. But is there no GUI way in Plasma?
[02:22] <valorie> perhaps?
[02:22] <valorie> I've never done that
[02:22] <Guest_85> i need help to know hpw
[02:22] <Guest_85> how*
[02:22] <valorie> @linuxophil there should be, right in Dolphin
 OK, thanks Valorie, woman of knowledge!
[02:23] <valorie> https://askubuntu.com/questions/963670/how-do-i-access-a-local-network-share-in-dolphin
[02:23] <valorie> lol
[02:23] <valorie> basically I know a lot of people and know how to google
[02:23] <Guest_85> can anyone help or is this another linux fail ?  lol
[02:23] <valorie> Guest_85: sec
[02:24] <Guest_85> thanks
 @valorie, Nono. I try to set one up, not access it.
 In Dolphin it gives me this. It means "No Samba installed".
 (Photo, 773x609) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/uKU2HpUt/file_28087.jpg
[02:24] <valorie> !broadcom
[02:25] <valorie> Guest_85: ^^ any help there?
[02:25] <valorie> and https://askubuntu.com/questions/146425/how-can-i-install-and-download-drivers-without-internet
[02:25] <Guest_85> ive installed it before on ubuntu.. btu need a ehterneet cable to download it via terminal/.   i dont have one now
[02:25] <Guest_85> so i need to download it on windows and somehow install it via usb on linux.. otherwise i cannot use linux at all
[02:27] <valorie> that's what the second link is about
[02:27] <valorie> I have no personal experience of doing that
[02:27] <valorie> been a long time since I needed to download a driver for *anything*
[02:28] <Guest_85> i have no answers there
[02:28] <valorie> :(
[02:28] <valorie> I'm sorry
[02:28] <Guest_85> nevermind i'll stick to windows
[02:28] <valorie> If I know where the drivers GO
[02:28] <Guest_85> linux always gives me trouble
[02:28] <valorie> then I could tell you how to move it there
[02:28] <valorie> but I dunno
[02:29] <Guest_85> if they cant bother to make drivers i wont bother to use it
[02:29] <Guest_85> thanks for the time
 @Guest_85, You know who you should blame for this?  Hint: Not Linux...
[02:31] <Guest_85> definately linux.  hpw hard is it to include the drivers in the iso?
[02:32] <Guest_85> i cant download the damn drivers without wifi lol
 @Guest_85, You know who makes it hard to do exactly that?  Your hardware manufacturer.  You shouldn't blame Linux for something that your hardware manufacturer has gone out of their way to make complicated or impossible.  Most of us never ever have driver issues of any kind anymore.
[02:33] <valorie> "The propietary Broadcom STA Wireless driver is maintained upstream by Broadcom. As this driver is closed source, fixes in the driver itself may only be provided by Broadcom"
[02:34] <Guest_85> dont care how 'hard' it is.  if linux cant provide basic functionality to comuters then its pretty useless
 @valorie, Exactly this!
[02:34] <valorie> all that can be provide are Free alternatives
[02:34] <valorie> anything is is not allowed
[02:34] <Guest_85> the nwhy is it available in terminal?   its AVAILABLE  but i cnat download it.  stupid.  put it in the dman iso already
 @Guest_85, Are you truly that ignorant?  Wow.  I'm sorry.  I thought you might actually have more than two braincells to rub together.  Jesus...  My bad.  I should have realized.
[02:35] <valorie> because from the term you will have to agree to their terms of service
[02:35] <valorie> @blooalien, please hold your tongue
[02:35] <Guest_85> yea your bad.   i should have realised only windows actually works out of the box.. as usual
[02:35] <valorie> !
[02:35] <Guest_85> not linux fault of course.  never is
[02:35] <valorie> lol
[02:35] <valorie> that's hilarious
[02:36] <dax> folks, please
[02:36] <dax> Guest_85: if Windows works better for you, that's regrettable but please feel free to go back to using it.
[02:36] <dax> Kubuntu can't do anything about Broadcom's licensing terms for its drivers, sorry.
 @valorie, Apologies.  I just get so frustrated with the hatred that some of these clueless folk fling at the first sign of trouble.  Just so truly exhausted by it.
[02:36] <Guest_85> i do.. just came her eor help.. as usual i get the 'its not our fault'  spiel.. but either way.. it wont work
[02:36] <valorie> thank you dax
[02:37] <valorie> Guest_85: sorry that we could not help
[02:37] <Guest_85> first sign of toruble?  lol.. pretty much NO linux distros work for me on this laptop
[02:37] <Guest_85> thast ok Valorie, thanks for the time
[02:37] <valorie> with broadcom, I'm not surprised
[02:37] <dax> Same, I actively avoid it these days. Bad experiences with BCM4311 back in the netbook days.
 Instantly it's all "Linux sucks so bad!" and "Linux users are SO toxic!"  Well, yea they are.  When they're the constant target of abuse for tryin'a be HELPFUL.
[02:37] <Guest_85> so why not just put a damn driver in the iso?  if i can be installed via terminal. why mnot on the iso?
[02:37] <dax> blooalien: that's enough
[02:38] <valorie> it cannot be on the ISO
[02:38] <valorie> because Broadcom will not allow it
 Whatever.  I truly don't care anymore.  Fuck off, everyone.
[02:38] <valorie> they forbid it
[02:38] <Guest_85> not a 3rd party one ?  or waterver its called
[02:38] <valorie> even those are restricted to those who agree to terms
[02:38] <valorie> set by Broadcom
[02:38] <Guest_85> didnt g et the option
[02:39] <Guest_85> so noone can help me put it on to a usb stick and then into linux?
[02:39] <valorie> @blooalien this is a family-friendly channel
[02:39] <valorie> Guest_85: you might get more help in #ubuntu
[02:39] <Guest_85> couldnt get in there.. full or somerthing
[02:39] <valorie> this is a small channel and I have no more help to give
[02:39] <dax> (#ubuntu requires nickserv registration right now)
[02:40] <valorie> ah, you have to be registerd with freenode, perhaps
[02:40] <Guest_85> cant get my head around registering either.. confuseing.. whats wring with adding a username and password lol
[02:40] <dax> you could put it on a USB stick, but you'd also need to put its dependencies on there, and it depends on dkms, and thus gcc and whole bunch of other stuff
[02:40] <valorie> so much spam.....
[02:40] <Guest_85> git clone https://github.com/tomaspinho/rtl8821ce.git
[02:40] <valorie> that's what registering is
[02:40] <Guest_85> thast the terminal code needed
 question, if i use `sudo do-release-upgrade -d`, it will download the dev build right?
[02:40] <dax> dryllmedaddy: if you do it right now, it will download 20.04
 but now that 20.04 is out officially, it's pretty much the stable?
[02:41] <valorie> yes
[02:41] <dax> it's exactly the stable release, yes
 thank you :)
[02:41] <valorie> 20.04 is LTS
[02:41] <Guest_85> but still no wifi for me even in 20.04...
[02:44] <Guest_85> lol @ blooalien.. and im the toxic one   silly cretin
[02:45] <valorie> please
[02:45] <valorie> Kubuntu is for friendly computing
[02:45] <valorie> we try to be polite, and helpful here
[02:46] <valorie> or to direct people to help elsewhere
[02:46] <Guest_85> i just need help.. i know linux is not as simple as windows..  i hopes someone would help me get this ti usb at least.  if its a known issue i thought there would at least be help for me.  its just to hard to use it then
[02:46] <valorie> !register
[02:46] <valorie> Guest_85: sorry, you have an unusual problem
[02:46] <Metamorphosis> I'm putting Kubuntu 20.04 on a usb stick so that I can replace the / drive and upgrade my existing 18.04.4. Is this process safe?
[02:46] <Guest_85> i cant register.. its like lines of code or something just to register
[02:46] <valorie> most can at least use their phone tethered long enough to get the needed driver
[02:47] <valorie> ?
[02:47] <valorie> no
[02:47] <valorie> name, email
[02:47] <Guest_85> i cant tether my phone as i need wifi to tether it
[02:47] <valorie> and you choose the password
[02:47] <Guest_85> its nto name email. its all  /nickers//   grub    etc
[02:47] <valorie> oh, a nick
[02:48] <valorie> right now you are Guest_85
[02:48] <valorie> that's your temporary nick
[02:48] <valorie> mine is valorie
[02:48] <valorie> which happens to be my real name as well
[02:48] <valorie> grub has nothing to do with IRC
[02:48] <valorie> :-)
[02:48] <Guest_85> « /nick your_favorite_nickname »
[02:49] <Guest_85> all t hat.. should i include <<  etc
[02:49] <Guest_85> its so stupiflty compolocated just ot register
[02:49] <valorie> you use a short name of some sort
[02:49] <Guest_85> with << ??
[02:49] <valorie> as long as it's family-friendly it's fine
[02:49] <valorie> just txt
[02:49] <valorie> text
[02:49] <valorie> mine is valorie, as I said
[02:50] <Hiryu> "apt full-upgrade" wants to install gnome for some weird reason in Kubuntu 20.04... Keeping in mind it says there's no packages to update. It just wants to newly install all of these packages
[02:51] <Hiryu> and I have no idea why
[02:51] <Hiryu> I've been using mostly Kubuntu since 9.x
[02:51] <valorie> Hiryu: perhaps you have something installed that has new dependencies
[02:52] <valorie> did you do `sudo apt update` first?
[02:52] <gruber> this is confuseing as hell just to register
[02:52] <Hiryu> yes I did
[02:52] <valorie> hi gruber
[02:53] <valorie> Hiryu: unless you are super short of space, it won't do any harm
[02:53] <valorie> and you can uninstall anything you install
[02:53] <gruber> « /msg nickserv register password_of_your_choice your@email.address ».   with spaces ot no?   this is RIDICULOUS
[02:53] <Hiryu> I was thinking along those lines too... but I just figured it out
[02:54] <Hiryu> I've never seen behavior from apt like this... and I started with Debian in '99
[02:54] <valorie> all I can think of is what I said above
[02:54] <Hiryu> valorie: it's the system76 PPA that's causing this
[02:54] <gruber> i hate freenode
[02:54] <valorie> hmmm, I have used that for nvidia drivers
 you shouldn't use ppa's with debian
[02:55] <valorie> and it never did that
[02:55] <valorie> I have a sys76 laptop
 so I ran the update command
 now I seem to be stuck in firefox
 konsole was running in the background
[02:56] <gruber> tell me what to type exatclylease
 can't switch apps anymore
[02:56] <gruber> i cant even register
[02:56] <valorie> gruber: you must have, because you have a nickname
[02:56] <gruber> i need to ass paswwrods and email its says
[02:57] <gruber> all i did was change my name
[02:57] <valorie> ok
[02:57]  * Hiryu has never tried using a PPA with Debian FYI
 @Hiryu, you know you are not supposed to use PPA's with Debian
[02:57] <Hiryu> hahaha
[02:57] <gruber> so how do i do it
[02:57] <gruber> im sure freenode was designed by linux users..
[02:58] <valorie> could be
[02:58] <valorie> I'm just a grandma, and registered years ago
[02:58] <Hiryu> valorie: I'm half tempted to go just go with this... Since it's less than half a gig of additional space used
[02:58] <valorie> like I said, you can always uninstall things you don't want
[02:58] <valorie> later
[02:58] <valorie> popOS is gnome
[02:59] <gruber> how to join other rooms in here?
[02:59] <gruber> dammit
[02:59] <valorie> but the PPA I use dosn't install that
[02:59] <Hiryu> well, the weird behavior of this repo is causing all this stuff to be pulled in... so I'm not sure I can
[02:59] <valorie> gruber
[02:59] <valorie> oops
[02:59] <Hiryu> valorie: maybe I'm using the wrong PPA
[02:59] <valorie> commands in IRC are like /join #ubuntu
[02:59] <valorie> on a newline
[02:59] <valorie> as you did to change your nick
[03:00] <valorie> !ppapurge | Hiryu
[03:00] <gruber> ''Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services - see https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration''
[03:00] <gruber> GRRRR
[03:00] <Hiryu> valorie: yes, I know thanks. :)
[03:00] <valorie> oh good
[03:01] <gruber> cant effing register...
[03:01] <gruber> sod it
[03:01] <gruber> damn linux dung
[03:01] <valorie> ha
[03:02]  * valorie commands the dung beetles to clean the chan
[03:03] <Hiryu> valorie: I'm curious... Which sys76 PPA are you using>
[03:03] <Hiryu> ?
[03:03] <valorie> let me check if it made it past the upgrade
[03:05] <salma> bjr
[03:05] <valorie> system76-dev-ubuntu-stable-eaon
[03:05] <Hiryu> AHA
[03:06] <Hiryu> I was using their Pop!OS (sp) PPA
[03:06] <valorie> there ya go
[03:06] <Hiryu> maybe when I originally included that in my notes, that was the correct one
[03:06] <valorie> that will get you popos
[03:06] <valorie> which I Did Not Want
[03:06] <Hiryu> If I were a Gnome user... I'd just use PopOS :D
[03:06] <valorie> I got the name of that ppa from the sys76 support staff
[03:06] <valorie> right
[03:07] <Hiryu> ah that makes sense
[03:07] <valorie> some of the staff are friends and one is my son, so I sorta get what i need
[03:07] <valorie> I think everyone does, however
[03:07] <Hiryu> valorie: how do you like your Sys76 machine?
[03:07] <valorie> love it!
[03:07] <valorie> Sysinfo for 'valorie-Oryx-Pro': Running inside KDE Plasma 5.18.4 on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS (Focal Fossa) powered by Linux 5.4.0-7625-generic, CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700HQ CPU @ 2.80GHz at 2725-3198/3800 MHz, RAM: 20368/32067 MB, Storage: 309/1144 GB, 289 procs, 4.27h up
[03:08] <valorie> beefy machine with lotsa storage and RAM
[03:08] <valorie> their service is fantastic too
[03:09] <Hiryu> yeah, I've been pretty happy with them
[03:09] <Hiryu> been using them since about '09
[03:10] <valorie> years ago I bought a little travel laptop from ZaReason
[03:10] <valorie> with Kubuntu on it
[03:10] <valorie> :-)
[03:10] <valorie> loved that too
[03:10] <valorie> it's a i386 but afaik still running an older Kubuntu
[03:10] <valorie> I gave it to my nephew
[03:11] <valorie> the Kubuntu Focus is pretty cool too
[03:11] <Hiryu> valorie: I wasn't sure if I could get anything from ZaReason since they're in South Africa
[03:11] <Hiryu> my nephew has my previouls Oryx Pro right now :D
[03:11] <valorie> ? No, they are in Berkeley, California
[03:11] <Hiryu> oh then why did I think they were in South Africa?
[03:11]  * Hiryu shrugs
[03:11] <Hiryu> that's driving distance for me..
[03:12] <dax> because ZA is the country code for south africa
[03:12] <Hiryu> aaah
[03:12] <dax> but yeah, they're in Berkeley
[03:12] <valorie> I met some of the too, when they came to LinuxFest Northwest
[03:12] <valorie> and they fixed, on the spot a little problem I had
[03:12] <dax> although their contact page says Michigan now. huh.
[03:12] <valorie> linux people are generally pretty cool
[03:13] <dax> i wonder if they moved
[03:13] <valorie> hmmm, I got an email from them the other day
[03:13] <valorie> didn't sound like it
[03:13] <dax> their FAQ says to mail stuff to their HQ in MI too
[03:13] <dax> odd.
[03:13] <valorie> hmmm
[03:14] <dax> oh there's a section about it in https://zareason.com/About.html
[03:14] <valorie> certainly less expensive to live in MI than the SF area!
[03:14] <dax> yeah
[03:14] <dax> berkeley is not cheap lol
[03:14] <dax> and i know they were struggling for a while, sounds like they took the opportunity to pick up and move
[03:15] <Hiryu> hmm....
[03:15] <valorie> sounds like a fun move on their part
[03:15] <valorie> I know my son loves working in Denver for sys76
[03:16] <Hiryu> that's pretty cool
[03:17] <valorie> very nice folks
[03:17] <valorie> https://kfocus.org/ is the Focus
[03:17] <valorie> big machine
[03:18] <valorie> but I'm not doing Big Data
[03:19] <Hiryu> valorie: do you have 'linux-system76' installed by chance?
[03:20] <valorie> yep
[03:20] <valorie> $ apt policy linux-system76
[03:20] <Hiryu> linux-system76 : Depends: linux-generic (= 5.4.0-7625.29~1587437458~20.04~2960161) but 5.4.0.26.32 is to be installed
[03:20] <valorie> linux-system76:
[03:21] <valorie>   Installed: 5.4.0-7625.29~1587437458~20.04~2960161~dev
[03:21] <valorie> hmmm
[03:21] <valorie> and do you have system76-dev-ubuntu-stable-eaon installed?
[03:22] <valorie> and if so, did you do a sudo apt update after installing it?
[03:22] <Hiryu> yes and yes
[03:23] <valorie> $ apt policy linux-generic
[03:23] <Hiryu> no on the first
[03:23] <valorie> linux-generic:
[03:23] <valorie>   Installed: 5.4.0-7625.29~1587437458~20.04~2960161~dev
[03:23] <Hiryu> I take it back
[03:23] <valorie> on my machine
[03:23] <Hiryu> I have focal
[03:23] <Hiryu> but I should have focal
[03:24] <valorie> not sure that they have relabeled the ppa yet
[03:24] <valorie> mine still says eoan
[03:24] <valorie> but I did an upgrade, not a re-install
[03:24] <Hiryu> maybe because I did mine after you did yours, I'm getting focal
[03:24] <Hiryu> ah
[03:24] <Hiryu> I did a re-install
[03:25] <Hiryu> here we go
[03:25] <Hiryu> apt policy linux-generic
[03:25] <valorie> that's fine; I would do sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
[03:25] <Hiryu> is the candidate and what I have installed
[03:25] <Hiryu> 5.4.0-7625.29~1587437458~20.04~2960161~dev is available, but is not the candidate because it's older (and no preferences have been set)
[03:26] <valorie> well then
[03:26] <Hiryu> so probably the Sys76 package is behind the curve
[03:26] <Hiryu> okay, so probably everything is okay
[03:26] <valorie> I would message sys76 and see what they say
[03:26] <Hiryu> it seems this package simply pulls in the latest generic kernel that they think you should be running and nothing else, should be fine
[03:26] <valorie> tell them Valorie said to ask
[03:26] <valorie> lol
[03:27] <Hiryu> frankly, I run custom kernels anyway. Thanks for being my sanity check :D
[03:27] <valorie> aha
[03:27] <valorie> well, you know far more than I do then
[03:27] <Hiryu> my laptop is running hotter with 20.04...
[03:28] <Hiryu> but I think this was the case with <19.10 as well
[03:28] <Hiryu> It seemed with 19.10, there was a better fan profile or *something* going on there
[03:28] <Hiryu> I'll see if I can't figure it out
[03:29] <Hiryu> valorie: is changing betwee the Intel/Nvidia GPU a thing on your model of Oryx Pro?
[03:29] <Hiryu> *between
[03:29] <valorie> maybe?
[03:29] <valorie> I've never tried
[03:29] <valorie> I doubt I would remember to switch
[03:29] <valorie> <-- not a gamer
[03:29] <Hiryu> now that I think about it... it was the last Oryx Pro model that added Prime support
[03:29] <Hiryu> because it was around that time Prime support became mature enough to use
[03:30] <Hiryu> and you're before that
[03:30] <Hiryu> because it was around that time Prime support became mature enough to use "system76-power" on the CLI
[03:30] <Hiryu> woah
[03:30] <Hiryu> my IRC client just barfed
[03:30] <Hiryu> What I was trying to say was
[03:31] <valorie> lol
[03:31] <Hiryu> I was wondering if you had a more clver way of changing it than running "system76-power" on the CLI
[03:31] <Hiryu> PoPOS can do it through the GUI naturally
[03:31] <Hiryu> it's not a big deal and hasn't really bothered me :)
[03:31] <valorie> never tried
[03:32] <Hiryu> no worries, thanks for humoring my inane questions :D
[03:32] <valorie> next time I talk to my son I'll ask him if I have a use-case for Learning A New Thing
[03:32] <valorie> Hiryu: so much better than angry people!
[03:32] <Hiryu> I think the other reason I'm hotter is that I'm in Nvidia mode... Usually I'm in Intel
[03:32] <Hiryu> valorie: indeed!
[03:32] <Hiryu> I remember when I first started in the 90's... the community was a lot less friendly generally
[03:33] <Hiryu> a lot of "STFU RTFM"... They never bothered to tell me there was a "man" command
[03:33] <valorie> that's what kept me away for a long time
[03:33] <Hiryu> i thought they meant for me to yahoo search for documents (because Google wasn't big yet)
[03:33] <valorie> and that's why I ended up in Kubuntu and KDE and Linuxchix
[03:33] <valorie> all friendly, helpful places
[03:33] <Hiryu> awesome
[03:33] <valorie> oh yes, remember dogpile?
[03:34] <valorie> and dr. Jeeves
[03:34] <Hiryu> I used to help folks on IRC... maybe I should do that again with the shelter in place stuff :D
[03:34] <valorie> err, Mr. Jeeves
[03:34] <Hiryu> I remember hearing about Ask Jeeves
[03:34] <Hiryu> but I didn't know dogpile
[03:34] <valorie> I've been doing it ever since I learned something
[03:34] <valorie> in IRC
[03:34] <valorie> it's usually fun
[03:34] <Hiryu> my mother sorta started me down this route in the 90's... we had a dial up shell
[03:34] <Hiryu> she showed me how to use lynx, our first browser
[03:35] <valorie> ha, I started with the Coleco ADAM
[03:35]  * Hiryu has to look this up...
[03:35] <valorie> my first modem was 200 baud
[03:35] <valorie> which is about how fast you can type
[03:35] <Hiryu> yeah, that's old school
[03:35] <valorie> we wanted our kids to grow up with computers
[03:35] <valorie> because of course we did not
[03:36] <Hiryu> my father and I were into it... but we were too poor to afford anything... We had a 386 when pentiums were a thing
[03:36] <valorie> my husband learned a bit of programming with punchcards....
[03:36] <Hiryu> ouch, punch cards
[03:36] <valorie> <--- old
[03:36] <Hiryu> my uncle told me about that
[03:36] <valorie> it's where "stack" came from!
[03:36] <valorie> literally a stack of card
[03:37] <valorie> s
[03:37] <Hiryu> in 99, I used my student aid money to get my first computer... best decision I ever made
[03:37] <Hiryu> no kidding! I didn't know that!
[03:37] <valorie> I didn't either until I knocked over part of one of his "stacks"
[03:37] <valorie> lol
[03:37] <Hiryu> oh man
[03:37] <valorie> fortunately he didn't really need it anymore
[03:38] <Hiryu> yeah, I heard order was pretty important with those things
[03:38] <valorie> "sequencing error"
[03:38] <valorie> even in BASIC each line was numbered
[03:38] <Hiryu> I've never learned basic
[03:39] <Hiryu> Perl and C were my firsts
[03:39] <valorie> me either but I can still debug it
[03:39] <valorie> almost all spelling errors or the wrong "goto" line number
[03:40] <valorie> an amazing number of bugs are still caused by spelling errors
[03:41] <valorie> my coding language is English
[03:42] <valorie> and it is much more forgiving of spelling variation
[03:44] <Hiryu> sorta
[03:44] <Hiryu> haha
[03:45] <Hiryu> sound only works in Intel mode... Not Nvidia... I remember having this issue a long time ago
[04:00] <Metamorphosis> Hello, How can I install Kubuntu-restricted extras in 20.04? the command doesn't work.
 sudo apt install kubuntu-restricted-extras
 it's case sensitive.
[04:02] <Metamorphosis> ah, I see. thanks
[04:02] <Metamorphosis> Any other pro tip for a non-IT user?
[04:04] <Metamorphosis> I wonder why does Kubuntu install loads of strange fonts for me, like Bengali and Hindi, as I'm never going to use these.
 wow, that's quite an open ended question.
[04:04] <dax> because fonts aren't big and the world is international these days
[04:04] <dax> better than seeing a bunch of boxes on websites etc.
[04:05] <Metamorphosis> dax so why are Persian and Arabic fonts missing?
[04:05] <dax> dunno. i wouldn't expect them to be
 @Metamorphosis, its called localization, happens in almost all popular operating systems
[04:06] <Metamorphosis> coming from OpenSUSE I didn't had these fonts preinsalled there. It's fine.
[04:07] <dax> s/wouldn't/would have/, i guess that typo changed the meaning slightly lol
[04:07] <valorie> mmm, I bet you did
[04:07] <valorie> you just didn't notice
 @Metamorphosis, well you always have the option to remove them.
[04:09] <Metamorphosis> Yeah, its ok, I was just asking to know if I didn't install a wrong local.
 Metamorphosis, if you type "locale" in the terminal, do you see the expected language?  Drop downs such as the language option sometimes respond to the scroll wheel (which could have happened during install). But an unfamiliar language is usually quite obvious in subsequent install menus and post reboot. :)
[04:21] <Metamorphosis> Yeah I got it, I thought I've mistakenly choosen the Indian locale, thanks.
 Coming from open suse, you may not know of "sudo apt autoremove".  This is both a handy but potentially dangerous command.  It removes old kernels and packages that are no longer needed.  The command will list the packages to remove, so ensure watch for any packages or even full desktop environments that you know should  NOT be remove (answer "no" when in doubt).
 The package removal issue typically occurs if you enable test ppa's or are playing with alpha/beta releases. (very unlikely  on an LTS release as most updates are heavily tested).
[04:29] <dhcolesj> when will the 20.04 upgrade be enabled from 19.10 for Kubuntu?
 @valorie, Have you tried installing with the third party codecs/driver ticked on?
 @dhcolesj, Valorie said earlier that is is already!
[04:37] <valorie> I always tick that
[04:37] <valorie> it's so much easier
[04:37] <valorie> someone else mentioned that tonight however, not me
[04:38] <valorie> ah, @DarinMiller
[04:38] <valorie> tester extraordinaire
[04:39] <DarwinElf> how would I upgrade (on command-line) from 18.04 to 20.04 without waiting until July or whenever?
[04:39] <dax> ubottu: ltsupgrade
[04:40] <dax> ubottu: ltsupgrade =~ s/do-release-upgrade/sudo do-release-upgrade/
[04:43] <DarwinElf> why does it say testing purposes... an LTS isn't 'testing?'
[04:44] <valorie> DarwinElf: because it is not officially supported
[04:44] <valorie> I did it on two different laptops, one of the nvidia
[04:44] <DarwinElf> very confusing
[04:44] <valorie> flawless
[04:44] <valorie> we do a LOT of testing before release
[04:45] <valorie> can you suggest better wording?
[04:45] <dax> i can just drop the "for testing purposes" bit
[04:45] <dax> i stole it from a manual page and it's a bit awkward
[04:45] <valorie> as you just saw, we're always adjusting if necessary
[04:46] <valorie> well, it doesn't happen automatically until July
[04:46] <dax> ubottu: ltsupgrade =~ s/Until then, if you need to upgrade for testing purposes,/If you would prefer to upgrade immediately,/
[04:46] <dax> !ltsupgrade
[04:46] <valorie> in July, when the .1 is released and upgrading has been intensively tested, you will get a popup asking if you want to upgrade
[04:47] <dax> ugh i dont like the new wording either
[04:47] <valorie> thanks for the suggestion, DarwinElf
[04:47] <dax> i'll ponder it in PM and stop spamming channel
[04:47] <valorie> and to dax for updating it
[04:52] <DarwinElf> i didn't know if it means the currently-downloadable 20.04 (like .ISO) is still being tested, or just the upgrade process is being tested.  I thought as soon as that 20.04 (20.04.0) is available, it's already tested to a reasonable extent...
[04:52] <valorie> tested extensively, for weeks
[04:52] <dax> Ubuntu goes through a lot of testing before release. There's still always lingering bugs that don't shake out until it's in the hands of lots and lots of people.
[04:52] <valorie> over and over
[04:52] <valorie> even today
[04:52] <dax> Testers do not have every weird hardware and software configuration out there.
[04:52] <valorie> but upgrades not so much
[04:53] <valorie> I did, but the focus is on ISO testing
[04:53] <dax> So, Ubuntu delays LTS upgrades until the first point release so that those bugs have a chance to be found and sorted out first.
[04:53] <dax> and yeah, everyone doing do-release-upgrade -d between now and 20.04.1 is also testing upgrades for the people running production systems :)
[04:53] <valorie> which is why I use my travel laptop first
[04:53] <dax> which, again, we do our best but there's just so many configurations out there
[04:54] <valorie> DarwinElf: and we always welcome more testers
[04:54] <Metamorphosis> How to enable system startup song in Kubuntu 20.04? I don't see the settings for that.
[04:54] <valorie> I don't think we have one anymore
[04:54] <DarwinElf> the .ISO says '20.04 "LTS"'... so it's already the first LTS?  I want to use it either way, whether just upgrade now, or backup & erase & install ISO... I don't know which is definitely safer...
[04:55] <Metamorphosis> I'm also having dependancy issues with a couple of software that I used fine in 18.04
[04:55] <valorie> DarwinElf: I suggest backing up your system and upgrading
[04:55] <valorie> I have found it perfectly safe
[04:55] <DarwinElf> thanks
[04:55] <valorie> if you want to be 100% safe, do the backup and a fresh install
[04:56] <valorie> IMO that is faster but then you have to futz with setting up your software again
[04:56] <valorie> sort of a wash, really
[04:56] <valorie> I prefer upgrading
[04:58] <Metamorphosis> I'd like to enable system startup KDE song but the options are moved or missing
[05:00] <valorie> Metamorphosis: as I just said, I don't think that's available anymore
[05:02] <viewer|5> Hi I have a fresh install of 20.04, and the telegram try-icon is black. I dont have made any change in any setting.
[05:03] <viewer|5> Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/245934a3c1c18a6d0ee126ffea605256/image.png
[05:07] <dax> looks like a bug that telegram and KDE are blaming on each other: https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/7399 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=418996
[05:25] <valorie> I'll bet someone fixes that soon because a lot of KDE devels use telegram
[05:27] <DarwinElf> that's pretty retro
[05:29] <valorie> the rest of them use IRC or matrix or both...
[06:04] <DarwinElf> come on guys, no one's seeding the new 20.04 LTS torrents... if I'd have been downloading a strictly Unix[-like] OS, all four main ones have their torrents up almost instantly...
[06:13] <valorie> maybe the guys aren't but I am....
[06:13] <valorie> all of them
 good to see 20.04 now has color temperature management by default
[06:21] <user|6275> hi all. is kubuntu 20.04 released?
[06:21] <dax> yes
[06:22] <user|6275> dax thanks for the quick response. kubuntu.org is a bit misleading as it has the 20.04 banner but 18.04 release video.
[06:33] <user|10642> Hi all. First time I am using this kind of support inquiry. Hope it is the right place to ask: I have installed kubuntu 20.4 on a thinkcentre m720q, intel UHD630 graphics, and the only way I can boot into the system is using recovery mode in grub. Otherwise the system freezes just before starting the gui. I can then see the mouse on a black screen,
[06:33] <user|10642>  that's all
[06:34] <Metamorphosis> Elisa can't play podcasts. Is there an addon or workaround for it?
[06:35] <valorie> user|10642: thanks for that report
[06:35] <valorie> I'll see that the  proper video is linked
[06:39] <Metamorphosis> I'm also curious to know what was the reason to replace Cantata.
[06:43] <valorie> Metamorphosis: we always want to offer KDE software if possible
[06:44] <valorie> Cantata was there after Amarok stopped being released, but it was not entirely acceptable for a lot of reasson
[06:44] <valorie> reasons
[06:44] <valorie> for instance, i could never get it to play music
[06:45] <valorie> I'm still hoping for Amarok to return, but who knows if it will ever return to the ISO
[06:45] <valorie> our ISO is already oversize....
[06:46] <valorie> I'd like to see Falkon instead of ff too
[06:46] <valorie> we'll see if that ever happens
[06:50] <Technique> hello all
[06:51] <Technique> I installed a fresh kubuntu today
[06:51] <Technique> It feels great to be clean all clean
[06:52] <valorie> :-)
[06:54] <Metamorphosis> valorie I seriously doubt that if all of the default software were iso friendly, I see no reason to keep Thunderbird around when KDE has Kmail and its great tools.
[06:54] <valorie> Metamorphosis: their latest release was too late to get in
[06:54] <Metamorphosis> valorie I can understand why many distros use Firefox as their default browser but seriously I see no reason to put thunderbird in
[06:54] <valorie> :(
[06:54] <valorie> tbird is ugh
[06:55] <valorie> but we didn't have to package it, and the older kmail was rather broken
[06:55] <valorie> so
[06:55] <valorie> decisions have to made by deadlines
[06:55] <Metamorphosis> valorie I've installed Kmail and it's working with my exchange service just fine.
[06:55] <valorie> right, we got it packaged at the last minute
[06:55] <valorie> but not soon enough to get on the ISO
[06:56] <valorie> well, RikMills did
[06:56] <valorie> our hero
[06:56] <valorie> :-)
[06:56] <Metamorphosis> I have issues with Falkon as many websites say it's unsupported and detect it as an older version of Google Chrome (sure it's a website problem but it does exists)
[06:56] <valorie> yes, I hope we can include it one of these days
[06:57] <valorie> I was happy with FF after givng up on my early favorite, konqueror
[06:57] <valorie> but it became too crashy
[06:57] <Metamorphosis> I'm looking for a good podcast player to use on Kubuntu as I'm a big fan of podcasts. It's also strange to me that Iphone support in Kubuntu is worse than Ubuntu while the two are basically the same OS.
[06:57] <valorie> falkon was great for a year or so and then IT began crashing
[06:58] <valorie> iphone is the same OS as Kubuntu?
[06:58] <valorie> oh, kubuntu/ubuntu
[06:58] <valorie> we're all the same os
[06:58] <valorie> ubuntu has gnome software, we have KDE software
[06:59] <valorie> I've never used an iphone so no clue
[06:59] <valorie> I use kdeconnect and it's perfect
 the time format that I set doesn't seem to reflect on the first boot sign-in screen
[06:59] <valorie> I do podcasts on my phone
 on my lock screen it shows up fine, though
[06:59] <valorie> well folks it's midnight
[06:59] <Metamorphosis> Gnome classifies my different installed iPhone software and their folders while KDE offers nothing rather than a broken sync with Gwenview. Given the fact that KDE is my favorite DE I hope the things change in future.
[07:00]  * valorie heads to sleep
[07:00] <valorie> gwenview?
[07:00] <valorie> hmmm
[07:29] <user|10642> got another one: Eizo EV2450 speakers not recognized
[07:37] <DarwinElf> is there a way to configure 'do-release-upgrade' to save its downloads somewhere else?  I don't have enough room in '/' but elsewhere...
[07:39] <DarwinElf> i have the .ISO now even... can it load from that?
[09:01] <ND95> hello, please how do i fix the start up login screen not displaying the theme  but keep bring out .....QtQuick version 2.11 not install... how do i et to install it
[09:48] <DarwinElf> help meeee
[09:51] <diogenes_> !ask
[09:52] <gena> hey
[09:53] <DarwinElf> well, scroll up
[09:54] <DarwinElf> [00:32:35] <DarwinElf> is there a way to configure 'do-release-upgrade' to save its downloads somewhere else?  I don't have enough room in '/' but elsewhere... [00:39:58] <DarwinElf> i have the .ISO now even... can it load from that?
[10:18] <viewer|17> Hey guys my installtion of 20.04 keeps failing and theres no real log. How can I display a log?
[10:46] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[10:46] <DarwinElf> 'real log' on an OS with systemd?  I thought April 1st was already some days ago...
[11:26] <troozers> Afternoon all.  Is there a way of getting a list of installed packages from a kubuntu system without using the usual commands (dpkg-query, etc.).  I have mounted a dd image of a decommissioned PC
 @troozers, apt list --installed
 finding an specific package ... Like firefox … apt list --installed | grep firefox  … @troozers
[11:37] <troozers> this is on a system that;s not running - just the disk, just wondering whether the information can be gotten from a file or list of files?
 @troozers, Idk
[14:04] <hieronymus> Hello. I just finished do-release-upgrade to 20.04. Where did my OpenJDK 13 disappear to? apt search doesn't show anything.
 @hieronymus, are you able locate openjdke-13 from the command line (i.e. locate openjdk-13-jdk)?
[14:10] <hieronymus> I am a step further. The proposal sources need to be activated. Loading and installing right at this moment.
 Good to know. thanks
 Hi, please speak in italian? I have one problem installing teamviewer on kubuntu
[15:05] <BluesKaj> !it | @AndreaPcDoctor
 ok thanks
[15:11] <masonbee-M1> Just trying to boot Kubuntu 20.04 in Virtual Box and after the disk check I have a blank screen for ten minutes. Any ideas? I have already inserted ctrl alt del, backspace, etc...
[15:26] <masonbee-M1> Solved, safe graphics mode.
[15:34] <kmh_> hi
[15:35] <kmh_> i'm having a problem with getting the nvidia drivers to run on focal fossa
[15:36] <kmh_> under a secure boot
[15:54] <lsd|2> @here
[15:54] <lsd|2> lsd@lsd-Latitude-E5400:~$ sudo do-release-upgrade -m desktop Checking for a new Ubuntu release No new release found.
[15:54] <lsd|2> where is problem sources.list?
[15:54] <lsd|2> from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FocalUpgrades/Kubuntu
[15:54] <hieronymus> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[15:55] <lsd|2> runned can you add that command to wiki?
[15:55] <lsd|2> i dont even know what it does
[15:55] <lsd|2> its for laptop ?
[15:56] <hieronymus> A normal computer? Laptop/Desktop is the same, isn't it?
[15:56] <ecov> i thought so
[15:56] <lsd|2> it is,               If using the latest supported release, upgrade to the development release  why its still hidden under development tree
[15:57] <lsd|2> if it has been released
[16:08] <BluesKaj> !es | @Christian Rodríguez
 I am asking a stupid question. I have kubuntu 20.04 beta installed on one of my machines one week ago before  LTS was released. Do I have to do somerting to upgrade to LTS? If I execute Neofetch it says that I am running kubuntu 20.04 LTS
 upgrade from beta to LTS current is automatic when updates are ran (sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade)
[16:32] <sosharp> has anyone notice that after installation and you set up a few items, that on restart, everything goes back to the way it was before you started.  I have ran the beta and never had this problem.   is it me?
[16:33] <sosharp> 20.04 beta
 Ok thanks @DarinMiller
[17:04] <BluesKaj> Franzpow, if you want to check your release name and version, run, lsb_release -a
[17:12] <BluesKaj> @William Daniela, no spamming please!
[18:35] <zotold> #ubuntu-it-party
 BluesKaj: thanks I will check it out later
 Ok lsb_release -a says I have kubuntu 20.04 LTS :)
 @Franzpow, So it's upgraded to the lts .. no more on development build
 Yep, good to know
[19:58] <daniilka> Goodnight! Tell me what to do if during installation it displays ubi-partman failed exit code 141?
 Good evening daniilka, you may have corrupt partition or mbr.  Is all the data on the disk backed up?  Or can you safely delete all data?
 This link show others who encountered a similar error: https://askubuntu.com/questions/817344/ubi-partman-failed-with-exit-code-141-from-usb-install
[20:19] <daniilka> The fact is that there is no operating system on the computer now, and the maximum that I can do is somehow manage the computer through BIOS.
[20:20] <oerheks> i would let windows create free space, with diskmngr, to avoid such errors and problems after booting windows again
[20:21] <oerheks> oh no operating system now.. you might want to boot into live session, to see if the disk needs to be initialised with MBR/GTP
[20:21] <Bolvaron> is anyone playing games here with kubuntu? im missing one game, then i would gladly switch to kubuntu completely
[20:21] <oerheks> err GPT
[20:37] <Arijit> Hi I have been using kubuntu 16.04 lts for a few years now and I want to upgrade to kubuntu 20.04 lts. Can I get a good performance from my laptop with 4gb ddr3 ram and Intel i5 2.20 GHz?
 Im sorry to bother but can i upgrade my Kubuntu 19.10 to 20.04 without reinstalling the whole system.
 Yes, you can
 It's apt update && apt dist upgrade, or something like that... Don't remember the exact command right now
 Thankies
[21:40] <valorie> it is sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[21:40] <cetjs2> kde
[21:40] <valorie> but sudo apt update && sudo full-upgrade first!
[21:40] <cetjs2> kde rullezz
[21:40] <valorie> we do
[21:40] <valorie> :-)
 its available to update or only fresh install?
[21:41] <cetjs2> valorie, :)
[21:41] <valorie> oops, typyo
[21:41] <valorie> but sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade
[21:41] <valorie> left out apt in the second part of that command
[21:42] <valorie> yes, available to update
[21:42] <valorie> I updated this machine I'm typing on yesterday afternoon
 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FocalUpgrades/Kubuntu
 great!! thanks 🙂
[21:42] <valorie> after backing up
 Just found the guide 😊
[21:42] <valorie> perfect
 @DavidStojke, .
[21:53] <user|61999> want to upgrade to 20.04
[21:53] <user|61999> how do i do it?
[21:53] <user|61999> please help
[21:58] <valorie> good lord, 2 minutes
[21:59] <valorie> !20.04
 @user|61999, Are you starting from windows or an older version of Kubuntu?
[22:54] <alain> installé et maintenu à jour kubuntu 20.04 beta, dois-je réinstaller avec la dernière livraison officielle?
[22:54] <alain> I installed and kept up to date kubuntu 20.04 beta, should I reinstall with the last official delivery?
 no need to reinstall, system updates will automatically move you to the final release.
[23:00] <alain> perfect thank you
[23:47] <Lernox> Hi, Telegram channel is down?
[23:54] <valorie> hmmm, let me look
 nope, working here