| === tds5 is now known as tds | ||
| lotuspsychje | good morning | 02:20 |
|---|---|---|
| ducasse | good morning | 06:17 |
| lotuspsychje | hey eddvrs | 13:20 |
| eddvrs | hey | 13:21 |
| lotuspsychje | ubuntulog2: 16.04 is still cared off, think ESM will also be a fact after eol so.. | 13:21 |
| lotuspsychje | ubusr: ^ | 13:21 |
| ubusr | lotuspsychje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-pip/+bug/1864766 | 13:22 |
| ubusr | that bit me hard on my 16.04 CI servers.... the bug it already 4 month old (altough the report + fix isn't) | 13:22 |
| lotuspsychje | ubusr: bug shows fixed and it isnt? | 13:23 |
| ubusr | where do you see it's fixed ? It says xenial - in progress | 13:24 |
| lotuspsychje | right | 13:24 |
| ubusr | maybe, one day... It cause me and others to move to 18.04 | 13:25 |
| tomreyn | ubusr: so most of the people in #ubuntu and here, too, are volunteers. it's quite unlikley that one of us is involved with SRUs. | 13:26 |
| ubusr | and to think about not depending on system python for our stuff | 13:26 |
| tomreyn | as such, there's nothing any of us can do about it | 13:26 |
| lotuspsychje | unless find more users to get the bug affected, and turn up the heat on it a bit | 13:27 |
| ubusr | it's ok, it's nothing personal, just hope that people see that LTS isn't always mean supported | 13:27 |
| tomreyn | i *assume* that if yo have a commercial support contract already you may have a better leverage on increasing its priority. | 13:27 |
| lotuspsychje | ubusr: we cant generalize statements like 1 bug affecting = the same as 'not supported' | 13:27 |
| lotuspsychje | the community and the devs do what they can, but you as user can also influence your own bug | 13:28 |
| tomreyn | well in this case i don't think the reporter could do more than they already did really | 13:29 |
| lotuspsychje | he could talk to people about it, find other users affected? | 13:29 |
| lotuspsychje | maybe rbasak might know more after poking around? | 13:29 |
| tomreyn | yes, this is true. shouldn't be neede,d though | 13:29 |
| tomreyn | patches were provided, SRU process initiated, it's probably just a matter of "when someone gets to it" | 13:30 |
| tomreyn | and they'll have been busy with the release | 13:30 |
| lotuspsychje | agree | 13:30 |
| daftykins | there must always be things that slip between the dates of development | 13:31 |
| daftykins | what makes more sense, the easier path of moving to a release where things work, or fighting for change? :) | 13:31 |
| lotuspsychje | xenial still goes a while though, and when the user would choose to esm, things might still be worth to solve | 13:34 |
| ubusr | I am really intrigued by how come not so many people have complaint on this | 13:35 |
| lotuspsychje | thats why i think you should find more heat on your bug | 13:36 |
| tomreyn | i guess in long term support environments they don't use pip to manage libraries but install (and craft, if needed) debian packages | 13:37 |
| ubusr | tried, but besides people I know who got it too (and they all moved to 18.04 cause of it)... | 13:38 |
| tomreyn | if you manage libraries with pip you're basically outside of the supported area | 13:38 |
| ubusr | tomreyn: this is for using virtualenv so you aren't depnent on debian packages | 13:38 |
| ubusr | tomreyn: in python people usually do a virtualenv, and there they update pip | 13:38 |
| ubusr | but you can't setup a virtualenv anymore on system 16.04 ... | 13:38 |
| tomreyn | so you're saying that if you installed a fresh ubuntu 16.04 release, never used pip, and installed virtualenv and started it it would fail? | 13:40 |
| ubusr | isn't that whats written tehre ? | 13:40 |
| tomreyn | hmm i guess there is no "python-virtualenv" package in 16.04 | 13:40 |
| ubusr | ofcourse there is | 13:41 |
| tomreyn | i see, "virtualenv" | 13:41 |
| tomreyn | hmm the "virtualenv" package in xenial depends on "python3-virtualenv" though | 13:43 |
| ubusr | tomreyn: check the docker output there https://github.com/pypa/packaging-problems/issues/325 | 13:44 |
| ubusr | there is (or was) a python-virtualenv package | 13:44 |
| tomreyn | and there actually is "python-virtualenv" in xenial (not sure why rmadison wouldn't show this earlier): https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial-updates/python-virtualenv | 13:44 |
| tomreyn | but this does not provide the "virtualenv" command | 13:46 |
| lotuspsychje | ubusr: could you also apport-collect 1864766 on your bug please? | 13:46 |
| tomreyn | just *suggests* "virtualenv", which is python 3 virtualenv | 13:46 |
| tomreyn | so i guess python 2 virtualenv can't be run on xubuntu in a supported way at this time (but it probably was possible in the past, although i'm not 100% certian there). | 13:47 |
| tomreyn | all of these packages are in universe, though, which means they got nothing other than coimmunity support anyways | 13:48 |
| tomreyn | ubusr: ^ might be relevant | 13:48 |
| tomreyn | "all of those" -> https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=virtualenv | 13:48 |
| tomreyn | it probably also explains the turnaround time for your SRU | 13:49 |
| daftykins | lotuspsychje: ESM is for those with £££ so a bit different :P | 13:50 |
| lotuspsychje | daftykins: i know, i just kind of understand his point of being an LTS and not working | 13:51 |
| tomreyn | not a valid point for universe, esm has no universe anyways | 13:54 |
| daftykins | ah ha | 13:55 |
| daftykins | i don't do anything with python really, so can't comment on this one | 13:55 |
| lotuspsychje | ah | 13:56 |
| lotuspsychje | ok so this might be a case then as daftykins points, the time this bug gets solved, its time to move to a working version? | 13:57 |
| tomreyn | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ESM/14.04#Maintained_Packages | 14:02 |
| tomreyn | therE's no list for 16.04, yes, but i guess it'll be missing (python-)virtualenv and python-pip as well | 14:03 |
| tomreyn | *yeT | 14:03 |
| bertand | guys can anyone tell me what is this chanserv and whats its purpose? I can understand why nickserv is there but not chanserve | 14:18 |
| lotuspsychje | bertand: chanserv is a service running to handle things on the ircd network | 14:19 |
| lotuspsychje | bertand: /query chanserv and type help to know more of it | 14:20 |
| daftykins | that'd be a topic for #freenode | 14:20 |
| bertand | lotuspsychje: thanks for letting me know that | 14:20 |
| === kostkon_ is now known as kostkon | ||
| lotuspsychje | there are 5 known nvidia bugs for 20.04 on the releasenotes, ive added 1 bug #1845801 to the ubuntu-discuss bug team https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-discuss | 17:08 |
| lotuspsychje | the nvidia/autologin bug | 17:09 |
| ubusr | didn't nvidia promise open source linux drivers @ start of 2020 ? | 19:01 |
| daftykins | couldn't care less, theirs at least work - AMD have amdgpu but it's far from functional | 19:11 |
| joelcrump | i'm reluctant to blame NVIDIA for wanting to keep their official drivers proprietary, certainly it's not ideal in the abstract, but in practice they may have their reasons.. i bought an NVIDIA card because at the time i'd been led to believe they were better for linux, and i knew the day might come when i'd want to run it.. nearly a decade later the situation seems a bit different, | 19:15 |
| joelcrump | but like you said at least it works | 19:15 |
| daftykins | i'd say it's still well and truly the best for use, i don't see any drama with use | 19:17 |
| joelcrump | cool, i feel good about what i chose then | 19:17 |
| daftykins | really depends what you use it for and which it is | 19:20 |
| joelcrump | GTX 460 | 19:21 |
| daftykins | ok that's quite the museum piece | 19:21 |
| joelcrump | still works great | 19:21 |
| daftykins | for drawing the desktop i suppose | 19:23 |
| joelcrump | if you're talking about gaming i don't do that | 19:23 |
| daftykins | that doesn't really leave anything left for why to have a discrete card | 19:25 |
| joelcrump | well my motherboard doesn't actually have integrated video | 19:25 |
| joelcrump | and i wanted all the outputs that this zotac implementation had | 19:25 |
| daftykins | yeah probably more a sign of the time, pretty much anything can do triple head output now | 19:27 |
| daftykins | something that old probably even works fine from nouveau though :D | 19:27 |
| joelcrump | oh it does, i ran a different distro for a while last year that didn't offer the proprietary driver, but the problem was i couldn't watch youtube with firefox, i had to install chrome for that one site | 19:29 |
| daftykins | that doesn't make an awful lot of sense | 19:31 |
| daftykins | what distro can't use their binary package? | 19:32 |
| joelcrump | it was fedora | 19:32 |
| daftykins | yeah so that absolutely does have support | 19:33 |
| joelcrump | i guess i missed it if so | 19:37 |
| joelcrump | i seem to remember trying to use it and running into some issue but my memory is fuzzy on that | 19:38 |
| daftykins | it's a bit of a joke as you have to add this rpm repo to do it the easiest way | 19:40 |
| daftykins | rpmfusion i think they call it | 19:40 |
| joelcrump | ahh | 19:40 |
| daftykins | getting the nvidia binary leads you to this funny situation where you have to boot with nouveau blacklisted to install, else it won't run - but often you can't even get a shell when booted without nouveau on an unsupported modern card, so you're blocked xD | 19:41 |
| joelcrump | ouch | 19:42 |
| tomreyn | daftykins: i've been using amdgpu with an rx580 for ~ 2 years without any issues now. but i agree there are problems with the recent ones, and those chips when they switch from radeon to amdgpu. | 19:53 |
| tomreyn | *switched | 19:54 |
| daftykins | weren't they struggling with quite the basic of HDMI audio for a very long time? | 19:56 |
| tomreyn | hmm, i think this was a lacking feature in all open source drivers for a while. to me this never was a required feature for a graphis card. but i think DP worked earlier, and that's what i'm using there. | 19:58 |
| daftykins | audio via displayport? weird one :D | 19:59 |
| tomreyn | i rarely use it, my monitors' audio is not very good. | 20:00 |
| daftykins | i was gonna say :) | 20:00 |
| tomreyn | :) | 20:02 |
| === akem_ is now known as akem | ||
| === katnip is now known as yarddog | ||
| === yarddog is now known as Guest20677 | ||
| === Guest20677 is now known as katnip | ||
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