[00:35] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: s-c is now updated with bug fix
[00:35] <OvenWerks> Hope fully I can just move forward now...
[01:31] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Agreed. That regression was a PITA.
[01:32] <Eickmeyer> Technically not a regression, but whatever.
[02:34] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: What do you make of bug 1877806?
[11:59] <StevenJayCohen> I'm planning an article about installing Studio into other flavors. Is it okay to mention the eventual goal of Studio Controls not being exclusive to Ubuntu? 
[12:12] <StevenJayCohen> Building the article around a reference to Janet from The Good Place: Girl/Not-a-girl becomes Flavor/Not-a-flavor
[12:14] <StevenJayCohen> So, yes, I am implying that UbubtuStudio is a Janet
[14:35] <Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: I'd rather publicly announce that on our site first, but one idea I had for you was giving you access to the website to do some posts there.
[14:40] <RikMills> kde frameworks 5.70.0 landing in proposed
[14:40] <StevenJayCohen> That's why I thought to ask. It felt like something requiring an official announcement. I've got enough to make a post without that part anyway. Reminding people that Studio can work inside any other flavor seems like enough for an article. We're both using wordpress, right? If I remember correctly there is a way to syndicate a post. Or I can keep my personal posts about my personal experience and figure
[14:40] <StevenJayCohen> out how to generalize the advice for posts to the official blog.
[14:56] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: \o/
[14:57] <RikMills> maybe /o\ https://pointieststick.com/2020/05/10/why-the-animations-in-your-plasma-5-18-feel-slow-now-and-when-it-will-be-fixed/
[14:57] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: uhoh...
[14:57] <RikMills> I wish plasma devs would tell me these things before they release things!
[14:57] <Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: Yeah, keep your personal posts separate. I'm sure you can come up with stuff for the site though. And maybe Twitter, too.
[14:58] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: So, slugfest for a month then, it seems.
[14:58] <RikMills> unless I can safely revert the commits in question via a patch
[14:59] <RikMills> I am not sure how long until we get 5.19, as it requires new qt and 2 new sources
[14:59] <Eickmeyer> Are we waiting on Debian for new qt or....?
[15:00] <RikMills> yes debian, and then a transition here
[15:00] <Eickmeyer> Ok
[15:01] <RikMills> we might get our transition done 1st, but not all qt 5.14 is packaged yet
[17:01] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: Calf plugins are not known for stability, dsp quality, care is coding etc.
[17:03] <OvenWerks> Ardour does not "sandbox" plugins as some other sw does or allows because it does not scale and there are Ardour users who regularily use Ardour with well over 100 channels in live situations where their livelyhood depends on quality.
[17:04] <OvenWerks> Ardour is profesional sw, Calf plugins are not.
[17:06] <OvenWerks> I wish people would not suggest the use of calf plugins except where there is no other sw that can do the same job (almost never)
[17:06] <OvenWerks> I would (if it was up to me) drop the package from US.
[17:09] <OvenWerks> They are working on replacing the the gui tool kit with a unique built in kit.
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Right, and lsp-plugins are more complete nowadays anyhow. Might be worth dropping calf from the default, but we can't drop it from the repo. That bug was originally filed against Ardour, should I remove Ardour from the bug report?
[17:15] <StevenJayCohen> I mostly use: AirWindows, GVST, and LSP plugins. Then again, I rarely use virtual instruments.
[17:17] <StevenJayCohen> The LSP plugins have an odd glitch graphically, but I think its the plugins and not Ubuntu Studio at fault.
[17:18] <Eickmeyer> Got a screenshot?
[17:19]  * StevenJayCohen uploaded an image: image.png (48KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/bWTXPVTeSGkugnuqgBIYqNpJ >
[17:19] <StevenJayCohen> I've seen this on windows when VSTs don't properly request a window size, some hosts just collapse
[17:20] <StevenJayCohen> I can resize it and use it fine
[17:20] <StevenJayCohen> That's not Reaper, Reaper works fine.
[17:20] <Eickmeyer> Ok, so yeah, that means the plugin isn't requesting a proper window size. Might be worth filing a bug report with the developer. https://github.com/sadko4u/lsp-plugins
[17:21] <StevenJayCohen> I had that on my todo list ;)
[17:21] <Eickmeyer> As a matter of fact, looks like you've got nothing to do then: https://github.com/sadko4u/lsp-plugins/issues/101
[17:21] <Eickmeyer> Known issue. :)
[17:22] <StevenJayCohen> I'll just chime in there then.
[17:23] <StevenJayCohen> My screenshot was in OcenAudio https://www.ocenaudio.com/
[17:23] <Eickmeyer> Looks like it's fixed, just awaiting a hotfix.
[17:23] <StevenJayCohen> I don't get the error in Reaper at all
[17:24] <Eickmeyer> Still might get fixed in the hotfix. I'd wait until after that is released. Will probably be 1.1.20 when released.
[17:24] <Eickmeyer> I track this pretty closely and try to backport when able.
[17:24] <StevenJayCohen> true
[17:24]  * Eickmeyer notes that 1.1.19 still needs to be pushed to groovy, but ERR:PackageSetRightsDelayed
[17:25]  * Eickmeyer *ahem*teward*ahem*
[17:25] <Eickmeyer> And yes, I know Rafael was working on them, but this sure is taking a while.
[17:26] <teward> i have a headache what
[17:26] <Eickmeyer> Packageset. Go back to your hangover. :)
[17:26] <teward> 1.1.19 of what?
[17:26] <teward> not a hangover
[17:26] <Eickmeyer> 1.1.19 of lsp-plugins
[17:26] <teward> allergies + sinuses
[17:26] <teward> Eickmeyer: is it ready to go?
[17:27] <Eickmeyer> teward: Yes. lp:lsp-plugins
[17:27] <StevenJayCohen> Now I can't remember, did Studio come with GVST installed or did I add that?
[17:28] <Eickmeyer> StevenJayCohen: I'm not 100% sure on that.
[17:29] <teward> Eickmeyer: on radar for BeforeBedtime today
[17:29] <StevenJayCohen> I think they haven't been updated in a few years (the linux and mac versions).
[17:29] <Eickmeyer> teward: Ok, go nurse your headache. :)
[17:29] <teward> can't
[17:29] <teward> work requires attention
[17:29] <Eickmeyer> teward: My condolances and regrets. :(
[17:29] <StevenJayCohen> These: https://www.gvst.co.uk/portpage.htm
[17:30] <Eickmeyer> Innnnterrrresssssting.
[17:30] <StevenJayCohen> teward: Sorry about the headache. I get them too.
[17:30] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I don't think we carry that by default.
[17:31] <StevenJayCohen> Guess I added it and forgot
[17:31] <StevenJayCohen> THey are solid and simple
[17:31] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, but where's the source code?
[17:31] <teward> StevenJayCohen: meh it happens.  I also need my caffeine but E:NOCOFFEE
[17:31] <StevenJayCohen> Right, I wasn't sure on that
[17:31] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, doesn't look like they're open source.
[17:31] <StevenJayCohen> been there
[17:32] <Eickmeyer> Unfortunatelly, means I have to Nack adding them.
[17:32] <teward> if it's not open source we can't package it normally.  we'd need to touch base with Canonical, etc. to see if it needs to go into multiverse or such
[17:32] <teward> yeah which means we can't include them per licensing policy
[17:32] <teward> *yawns*
[17:32] <teward> Eickmeyer: we need to set up a trello board or something with tasks to assign :P
[17:32] <teward> Lubuntu has Phabricator
[17:32] <teward> maybe we just need something similar
[17:33] <StevenJayCohen> Probably added it when I grabbed this: https://loudmax.blogspot.com/
[17:33] <Eickmeyer> Yeah. I'll look into it, but first; housecleaning, because Mother's Day, and my wife deserves a day.
[17:34] <StevenJayCohen> Universe would be a great place for OcenAudio - quick QT based sound editor - free, project from a Brazilian University, not open source packaged in a deb file.
[17:35] <StevenJayCohen> https://www.ocenaudio.com/whatis
[17:36] <teward> > not open source packaged
[17:36] <Eickmeyer> ^ That
[17:36] <teward> so the source isn't available.
[17:36] <teward> if we can't get the source we can't ship it
[17:36] <StevenJayCohen> Much slicker than AUdiacity, QT based, and respects theming
[17:36] <Eickmeyer> We cannot include anything that's not open source, StevenJayCohen .
[17:36] <teward> ^ this
[17:36] <StevenJayCohen> right, but would that be Universe? or not?
[17:36] <teward> it can't be universe
[17:36] <Eickmeyer> That would technically be Multiverse.
[17:36] <teward> because we can't ship non-open-source packages
[17:36] <teward> Eickmeyer: and even then we STILL need source access
[17:36] <Eickmeyer> ^True.
[17:37] <StevenJayCohen> Multi -- got it
[17:37] <StevenJayCohen> I wonder if they'd be open to that?
[17:37] <Eickmeyer> We would still need the source code, even if in multiverse.
[17:37] <teward> i'd have to consult with Release Team and Archive Admins
[17:37] <teward> as well as Canonical
[17:37] <teward> because I need to cover our butts legally :P
[17:37] <StevenJayCohen> Yep, understood.
[17:37] <teward> MOST closed source things are not open to it
[17:37] <teward> and Multiverse isn't default enabled last I checked.
[17:38] <Eickmeyer> That's correct.
[17:38] <StevenJayCohen> Performance-wise, it wipes the floor with Audacity (if all you need is a single track editor)
[17:38] <Eickmeyer> So, even if it was in Multiverse, we can't include it by default.
[17:38] <StevenJayCohen> Yeah, I get it -- too bad really.
[18:13] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: we can point out places where people can get other sw that may be approriate to their workflow
[18:15] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: We have to be careful with that. The open source zealots would have a field day if we endorsed anything that's closed-source. Something on the website might be good, though. 
[18:16] <OvenWerks> it would be nice to add zyn/fussion now that fussion has been released open
[18:16] <RikMills> Eickmeyer: I'm told that kde animation commit should be fine to revert for now
[18:18] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I would n ot add a utility that points to them or even urls, but a web page that list some sites was all I meant.
[18:18] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Cool. That could be a decent stopgap until we know for certain if 5.19 is going to drop with the new qt.
[18:19] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, we're on the same page.
[19:27] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer, teward: Is this a valid licence: https://github.com/zynaddsubfx/zyn-fusion-build/blob/master/COPYING
[19:28] <Eickmeyer> The WTFPL? Yes. It is definitely valid.
[19:28] <OvenWerks> As in valid for inclusion in debian?
[19:28] <OvenWerks> (acceptable)
[19:29] <Eickmeyer> I don't see why not, it's probably not the first time a Debian package has been WTFPL.
[19:29] <tsimonq2> I've seen it. Don't ask. :P
[19:30] <tsimonq2> As long as it's documented in debian/copyright, it's a legit license.
[19:30] <OvenWerks> Cool we should change the upstream for zynaddsubfx
[19:31] <tsimonq2> ...was it relicensed or just forked?
[19:31] <tsimonq2> Sorry, I'm missing some context.
[19:31] <OvenWerks> the fussion gui adds controls to function ality that the old gui doesn't
[19:31] <OvenWerks> relicenced
[19:32] <OvenWerks> the first year out it was closed source (just the GUI)
[19:32] <tsimonq2> Might be slightly sketchy if there are still original files with an older license.
[19:32] <tsimonq2> Ohh, okay.
[19:32] <tsimonq2> And the vendor gave permission to relicense?
[19:32] <OvenWerks> The vender did the relicence
[19:32] <tsimonq2> Okay.
[19:32] <tsimonq2> That works then.
[19:33] <tsimonq2> Just make sure you do a full copyright check - so check every file for anything which may say that it could still be closed.
[19:33] <tsimonq2> It's tedious and it's the worst part of packaging but it's vital.
[19:36] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2: Oh, look what that cat dragged in!
[19:36] <OvenWerks> It was part of the business plan from the day it was released. Make the new gui paid for the first year and then release the code open source after that.
[19:37] <OvenWerks> The actual dsp with the old gui remained open source the whole time.
[19:38] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: So, I'm trying to understand this thing. This is a build script on TOP of zynadsubfx for the fusion GUI?
[19:40] <OvenWerks> It loks so. I am looking at https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2020-May/113013.html
[19:40] <Eickmeyer> I'm getting a strong whiff of this requiring a repack to be a valid package.
[19:41] <OvenWerks> where it seems to that cloning that will auto pull in the other?
[19:41] <OvenWerks> could be.
[19:41] <Eickmeyer> Yes. We can't simply do that in packaging.
[19:42] <Eickmeyer> I mean, RPM packaging is capable, but this is running into the limitations of DEB packaging.
[19:44] <Eickmeyer> This seems to use two separate repos to build zyn-fusion.
[19:45] <Eickmeyer> Theoretically, it could be done with a repack, but this is debian packaging gymnastics for sure.
[19:46] <Eickmeyer> I'd just have to patch the build script to ignore a whole bunch since you can't be "git clone"-ing anything inside a Debian package build.
[19:49] <OvenWerks> I now understand why this has not happened yet
[20:12] <Eickmeyer> I'm also leery anytime I see the name rosea grammostola. Technically, that's the name of a tarantula, but in this case it's the moniker of a very pushy, militant, "I know what's best for the Linux Audio community and I represent it" person.
[20:45] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: but it is a pointer to the repo that I was interested in more than the poster who was posting in responce to another person.
[21:16] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Right, gotcha. So, the big thing is that the build script clones the main zynaddsubfx repo, not like a typical submodule thing.
[23:52] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: re:pitivi, I had thought when we put that one in, it was because it was a live videa editor... sort of half way between other editors and obs. However, I just opened it up and it is nothing like I remember so maybe I was thinking of something else...
[23:53] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Yeah, it's pretty much a basic video editor now. It's done by Gnome, IIRC.
[23:55] <OvenWerks> Anyway, from my POV those changes are fine
[23:56] <OvenWerks> RE: most plugins... If we could not install the jack client variety I would be happy
[23:56] <Eickmeyer> So, even lsp-plugins since I made that submenu?
[23:57] <Eickmeyer> I'm not against it, by any means.
[23:57] <Eickmeyer> Rather, not against that proposal.