[01:00] <pieq> Hi!
[01:00] <Eickmeyer> pieq: Hi, what' sup?
[01:02] <pieq> Eickmeyer, hi! Great, and you?
[01:02] <Eickmeyer> Oh, I'm fine. Do you have an Ubuntu Studio question?
[01:02] <pieq> Eickmeyer, you read my mind like an open book! :D
[01:02] <Eickmeyer> Well, you're in the right place for it.
[01:03] <pieq> I'm a seasoned Ubuntu user (been using it since Warty Warthogs!), and I've helped a friend set up his laptop with 20.04
[01:04] <pieq> He's a musician, and he has a USB Audio interface (one of the Scarlet) to record saxophone/accordion
[01:04] <pieq> He's often on the go, and when he's recording with friends, he would like to use the USB Audio interface as an input source, but use his laptop speakers as an output
[01:05] <Eickmeyer> Ok, I see where you're going with that.
[01:05] <pieq> We've set up Ubuntu Studio Controls on 20.04, and it does a great job setting up JACK and everything
[01:06] <pieq> but once we select the USB Interface in Ubuntu Studio Controls, the sound is automatically output to the USB Audio output, and we haven't found a way to select `PCH,0,0` which is the standard laptop input/output
[01:06] <pieq> I was wondering if I was doing something wrong
[01:06] <pieq> or if it was just not meant to do this
[01:06] <Eickmeyer> So, what you'll want to do is open up Carla and go to the Patchbay. From there you should be able to see every audio device connected, including the internal laptop speakers.
[01:07] <Eickmeyer> Then it's just a matter of connecting a wire (in the Carla patchbay) from the input to the speaker output.
[01:07] <pieq> OK, then it leads me to another question
[01:09] <pieq> I setup his laptop last year with 19.04. We had some problems but in the end he was happy with his workflow. He got used to Gladish, even though it seems like a pain to setup and "maintain" (especially since he switches from configs depending if he's home or on the go)
[01:09] <Eickmeyer[m]> In my case, that would be like so:
[01:09]  * Eickmeyer[m] uploaded an image: image.png (66KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uCKQojzNKmANqvpGiDVHbRmM >
[01:09] <pieq> Yesterday, while browsing the Web after installing 20.04, I saw that Gladish hadn't been updated since 2014 and was pretty much deprecated
[01:09] <pieq> but he insisted on using it.
[01:09] <Eickmeyer> Gladish is depricated, yes.
[01:09] <Eickmeyer> In fact, is dead upstream.
[01:09] <pieq> I was wondering: what is the replacement for Gladish? Carla?
[01:09] <Eickmeyer> We have Raysession and Carla combined to replace that.
[01:10] <Eickmeyer> Since Glasish is a session handler and patchbay, one can use RaySession and Carla to duplicate the functionality.
[01:10] <pieq> OK
[01:10] <pieq> Since I'm really not familiar with all that, I didn't know how to help him
[01:10] <pieq> I'm gonna pass the info, then
[01:11] <Eickmeyer> It was in the release notes for 19.10 that the LADI tools (incl. Gladish) was replaced since dead upstream.
[01:11] <pieq> ah crap, I missed the 19.10 release notes
[01:11] <Eickmeyer> And they were Py2 tools.
[01:11] <pieq> (by the way, very excited about the move to Plasma for Ubuntu Studio 20.10!)
[01:12] <Eickmeyer> It's looking pretty good so far! I just now uploaded a dark variant of the default global theme.
[01:13] <pieq> We've also identified some weird startup issue with Ardour 5.12. We setup different keyboard input methods (Chinese and Japanese, since my friend can type both), so it pulled these Noto fonts. And whenever Ardour is started, it wastes 35-40 seconds loading all these fonts one by one (I checked with strace). I don't understand why it's so slow and what's the point of loading these fonts
[01:13] <pieq> Do you think it could be a bug? If so, where should I report it?
[01:14] <pieq> And, one last question: my friend has a workflow to record and edit which is a mix of using Ardour, Reaper, and then Ardour again. He told me Ardour was very not user-friendly for some things and that's why he was switching back to Reaper (he has a license for it).
[01:14] <Eickmeyer> I don't think it's a bug, I just think that Ardour is used to latin fonts, and since Chinese and Japanese characters are so numerous, it probably takes quite a bit of time. New version of Ardour is supposed to be out within the month.
[01:15] <pieq> I told him it was probably just a matter of understanding Ardour better, but I don't know what his problems are exactly, and where he could find guidance
[01:15] <pieq> Since my friend wanted Gladish, by the way, I activated the KX Studio repos. Was it a bad idea?
[01:16] <Eickmeyer> Yep, very bad idea. That's no longer Ubuntu Studio now, it's a frankenbuntu known as KXStudio.
[01:16] <Eickmeyer> As long as he doesn't use Cadence, it might be OK, but yeah, I wouldn't have done that.
[01:16] <Eickmeyer> This needs to be updated but....
[01:16] <Eickmeyer> !kxstudio
[01:17] <Eickmeyer> Basically, it's like mixing PPA versions. KXStudio is built against 18.04.
[01:18] <Eickmeyer> As far as guidance with Ardour, #ardour is a thing.
[01:22] <pieq> shit.
[01:22] <pieq> I'm wondering if I can remove the PPAs
[01:23] <pieq> on the KXStudio page, the install instruction say "Debian / Ubuntu", so I assumed it was OK
[01:23] <Eickmeyer> It's possible, but with the weird way it's done, you'd have to look in /etc/apt/sources.d.
[01:23] <pieq> OK. I guess it would be safer to just wipe the laptop and start afresh then
[01:23] <Eickmeyer> It might be, unfortunately.
[01:24] <pieq> Eickmeyer, that's alright, fault's on me. I'm learning a lot though
[01:24] <Eickmeyer> pieq: It's all good. We have to pick-up after a lot of KXStudio users, so it's a bit messy when people add that
[01:25] <Eickmeyer> And yeah, it would be difficult to remove the packages since the developer of those repos has very bad Debian packaging habits and uses a lot of epochs, which override package versions big time.
[01:26] <pieq> argh
[01:26] <Eickmeyer> It's part of what motivated the creation of the Ubuntu Studio Backports PPA.
[01:26] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-backports
[01:27] <Eickmeyer> That needs to be updated too.
[01:27] <pieq> I had an interesting conversation with my friend yesterday about music production. Our conclusion was like the Linux setup for music production is *very* complicated, but *very* flexible. The thing is, in his case (recording real instruments, mixing, mastering), this flexibility isn't really useful (the magics of JACK being able to take any output from any program and plugging it as an input for another program sounds great for electronic music, but
[01:27] <pieq> not so useful for his use case)
[01:29] <Eickmeyer> I've done real-time effects processing with Jack.
[01:29] <Eickmeyer> I'm a 26-year live audio engineer (think stage or concert).
[01:30] <Eickmeyer> He could do some real cool reverb effects for his sax with the right setup.
[01:30] <pieq> "with the right setup". That's the problem :D
[01:31] <Eickmeyer> As far as complicated, that's why Ubuntu Studio exists: to make it easy.
[01:31] <Eickmeyer> I think most of the complicated-ness comes from people'
[01:31] <Eickmeyer> s heads.
[01:31] <pieq> He's a little bit technology-averse, but he wanted to try Linux after we discussed with a bunch of friends, for the philosophical standpoint.
[01:31] <Eickmeyer> Ah, I see.
[01:32] <Eickmeyer> Well, I come at it from an audio engineer standpoint, and OvenWerks comes at it from a musician standpoint.
[01:32] <pieq> I think no matter where you come from, moving to something else (OS, software, technique) is always gonna be a pain, because you naturally tend to think "but it's so easy to do on X! How come I can't achieve the same with Y???"
[01:32] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, I agree.
[01:33] <pieq> It's all about the gap you're ready to jump to get to the other side
[01:34] <Eickmeyer> It's also about not being afraid to try new things.
[01:36] <pieq> and to have time to spend investigating issues and solving them
[01:48] <pieq> Eickmeyer, thanks a lot for your support! It's much more clear now
[01:48] <Eickmeyer> pieq: Glad to help. :)
[01:49] <pieq> Eickmeyer, earlier you were talking about a new version of Ardour. Do you think it will solve this non-latin font loading issue? And I guess it won't be available in the Ubuntu repo, so how will I be able to get it?
[01:50] <Eickmeyer> pieq: I don't know.
[01:50] <Eickmeyer> We'll have a PPA for it, but it *should* be in for 20.10.
[01:54] <Eickmeyer> pieq: We would make it part of the Ubuntu Studio Backports PPA, but if it imports an Ardour 5.12 project it can no longer be used for anything lower than 6.0, so to keep from breaking people's workflows, it'll have to be a separate PPA.
[01:54] <Eickmeyer> !ubuntustudio-backports
[02:00] <pieq> Eickmeyer, yes, it's too risky to do that
[02:00] <pieq> Eickmeyer, have you thought about snaps?
[02:00] <pieq> I don't know how horribly complicated it would be to snap an application that requires access to JACK and other audio sub-systems, with a low latency...
[02:09] <pieq> Eickmeyer, one last question (I think?): in the Ubuntu Studio Installer, it's not very clear what the `ubuntustudio-audio` package does. My understanding is that it pulls a lot of audio applications, but does it play any part in the installation and configuration of JACK? Or is this achieved by ubuntustudio-controls?
[03:27] <Eickmeyer> pieq: The configuration is done with the installation and running of ubuntustudio-controls.
[03:27] <Eickmeyer> You run it, click on "Fix Real-Time Permissions", log out, log in, done.
[03:28]  * Eickmeyer was away playing minecraft with his son
[03:42] <pieq> Eickmeyer, got it. So ubuntustudio-audio is more of a convenience meta package to install all the audio-related software available by default in Ubuntu Studio?
[03:42] <Eickmeyer> pieq: Correct.
[03:42] <pieq> so it's not necessary per se? I can just manually install Ardour and be good to go, for instance?
[03:43] <Eickmeyer> Yep.
[03:45] <pieq> Eickmeyer, OK, thanks!
[03:45] <pieq> Eickmeyer, where is the source code for this app? (the installer one)
[03:46] <Eickmeyer> pieq: https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio-installer/tree/
[03:46] <Eickmeyer> It's really just a simple tk/tcl script.
[03:53] <pieq> Eickmeyer, thanks! I remember I stumble upon the source code, indeed
[03:54] <Eickmeyer> pieq: Technically it runs from source, being a script and all. :)
[03:54] <pieq> hehe, yeah but it still needs to be packaged
[03:55] <Eickmeyer> True.
[21:58] <toomanyxrunstoco> I've been having problems with Ubuntu whenever I try to record. I get tons of xruns, Ardour stops and then freezes and 30 seconds later it continues playing/recording.
[21:59] <toomanyxrunstoco> Jack shows messages like this: 16:59:04.896 XRUN callback (39801).
[21:59] <OvenWerks> what type of audio interface? (internal, USB, etc) which kernel?
[22:00] <OvenWerks> which jack settings
[22:03] <toomanyxrunstoco> Internal, Linux 5.3.0-51-lowlatency x86_64. Driver: alsa (realtime), sample Rate: 44100, frames/period:256, periods/Buffer: 2, no memory lock, force 16bit, port maximum: 128, timeout: 500, start delay: 0 secs.
[22:04] <OvenWerks> why no memory lock?
[22:05] <toomanyxrunstoco> I've no idea, I've had this settings for a long time.
[22:05] <toomanyxrunstoco> I just copied them from someone a long time ago, I think.
[22:05] <OvenWerks> so by internal audio I guess you mean the mother board audio?
[22:06] <OvenWerks> but not hdmi
[22:06] <toomanyxrunstoco> I might have messed them up between installs/reinstalls. Yes, by internal I mean motherboard
[22:07] <OvenWerks> ok, I wouldn't think hdmi would even start at 256 buffer size
[22:08] <OvenWerks> have you tried Ardour with no jack just ALSA?
[22:08] <OvenWerks> is it any different
[22:09] <toomanyxrunstoco> No, I haven't tried it
[22:09] <OvenWerks> I am assuming Ardour 5.12. It does work fine with straight ALSA so long as you do not need something only Jack has.
[22:10] <toomanyxrunstoco> Yeah, 5.12
[22:11] <toomanyxrunstoco> Well, I like that I can route audio from place to place with Jack, I'm not sure how to do that with ALSA
[22:12] <OvenWerks> ok, if you use audio sw outside of Ardour you would need jack for routing
[22:12] <OvenWerks> I run jack all the time here with no trouble.
[22:13] <OvenWerks> using a delta66 for audio.
[22:13] <OvenWerks> however, finding out if using just alsa works better or not could help.
[22:14] <toomanyxrunstoco> I'll try right now
[22:14] <OvenWerks> how are you starting jack? (ubuntustudio-controls, qjackctl, commandline, etc
[22:14] <toomanyxrunstoco> qjackctl
[22:15] <OvenWerks> are you bridging from pulse?
[22:16] <toomanyxrunstoco> If I use ubuntustudio-controls when I record I get like a buzzing/beeping sound on the recordings, that's why I stick to qjackctl
[22:16] <toomanyxrunstoco> I'm not sure, I just start qjackctl
[22:16] <OvenWerks> wow, they should be both the same
[22:17] <toomanyxrunstoco> (when trying to close Ardour froze and qjackctl too)
[22:17] <toomanyxrunstoco> (Had to terminate)
[22:19] <toomanyxrunstoco> Mmm... still the same problem without jack
[22:19] <toomanyxrunstoco> But I have a feeling it might be running in the background since I had to terminate it. Anyway to check?
[22:20] <OvenWerks> ps x
[22:20] <OvenWerks> or ps x|grep jack
[22:20] <OvenWerks> the normal way to kill jack is kill -9 jackd jackdbus
[22:21] <OvenWerks> sorry killall -9 jackd jackdbus
[22:21] <toomanyxrunstoco> Okay, I got the output, but I've no idea if it's running or not
[22:22] <toomanyxrunstoco> Oh wait, if it's showing up in that list it means it's running.
[22:22] <toomanyxrunstoco> It is.
[22:23] <OvenWerks> jackdbus auto does not mean jackd is running
[22:23] <toomanyxrunstoco>  1903 ?        S      0:00 /usr/bin/python3 -u /usr/bin/autojack >~/.log/autojack.log 2>&1 < /dev/null &
[22:23] <toomanyxrunstoco> I got that one and jackdbus
[22:24] <toomanyxrunstoco> And this "0:00 grep --color=auto jack"
[22:28] <toomanyxrunstoco> Okay, got Ardour running with alsa now
[22:29] <toomanyxrunstoco> It runs smoothly
[22:39] <toomanyxruns> I got disconnected, but I'm back
[22:43] <OvenWerks> if Ardour runs with Alsa ok I would suspect memlock as the rpoblem. SO far as I know Ardour will not even start if it can not get memlock
[22:43] <OvenWerks> Anyway, My wife just got home so I need to go for now.
[22:44] <toomanyxruns> Okay, so I'll uncheck that and report later
[22:44] <toomanyxruns> Thanks!