/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2020/05/19/#xubuntu-devel.txt

Unit193Err, right!  Meeting mail.00:00
bluesabreOh yeah00:05
bluesabreIt's the easiest one to find, so I copy it00:05
bluesabreSo thanks for that :D00:05
Unit193\o/00:11
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jphilipsbluesabre: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/chromium-browser/+bug/187785702:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1838008 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1877857 [snap] cursor theme isn't respected" [Medium,Confirmed]02:34
jphilipsbluesabre: you gonna be on BDDL this saturday when they review xubuntu?02:38
bluesabrejphilips: that's the plan :)09:19
jphilipsbluesabre: anyone else from the team joining you, like ochosi or Unit193?09:42
Unit193BDDL?09:42
jphilipsyes09:42
bluesabreWas going to nag about it today at the meeting :)09:43
jphilipsoh i let the cat out the bag09:43
Unit193What is BDDL?09:44
jphilipsbig daddy linux09:44
Unit193Ah, the reverse of tails.  Interesting. :>09:47
jphilipssean was on the show for the 19.10 release i believe09:48
jphilipsyep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcb2lLVBKBw09:48
Unit193Because he's the face of Xubuntu, of course!09:50
bluesabreI did get ochosi to do the 19.10 destination linux episode :)09:51
Unit193...I haven't shaved since March, I'm surely not the face of anywhere right now. >_>09:52
jphilipsyou dont need to show your face :D09:58
bluesabre!team | Reminder, community meeting tonight at 21:00 UTC, hope to see you there!11:02
ubottuReminder, community meeting tonight at 21:00 UTC, hope to see you there!: bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit19311:02
bluesabrehttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2020-May/011971.html11:02
bluesabreUnit193: thanks for updating the factoid :)11:06
Unit193Sure thing.11:07
jphilipsfor those interested in helping with documentation, we are working on the 'What is Xubuntu?' page - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jqimfff79oQH63xNwVwIaO0YFUkvCBzZtMC4up5ssDY/edit#12:06
jphilipssorry wrong doc. here it is https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kkq51aJLT-BdCogUS4INhrR4e_IRgLT7YlUAWL32m4g/edit#12:08
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jphilipsbluesabre: meeting time21:00
pleia2o/21:00
jphilipshi pleia2. hope you are feeling better21:00
pleia2thank you :) getting there21:00
pleia2oh! I wanted to tell you that the release video was wonderful, thanks again for making that :)21:01
bluesabreI'm here!21:01
bluesabre:D21:01
bluesabreOne sec to get my bearings.21:02
bluesabre#startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting21:02
meetingologyMeeting started Tue May 19 21:02:32 2020 UTC.  The chair is bluesabre. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.21:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick21:02
bluesabre!team | Meeting time!21:02
ubottuMeeting time!: bluesabre, knome, krytarik, ochosi, pleia2 and Unit19321:02
pleia2o/21:02
bluesabre#chair pleia221:02
meetingologyCurrent chairs: bluesabre pleia221:02
bluesabre:)21:03
bluesabreAgenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings21:03
bluesabreWe'll wait a short few for everybody to show up. (and for me to close a bunch of tabs)21:04
jphilipspleia2: glad to hear you're getting there and that you enjoyed the release video. it got featured on OMG Ubuntu :D21:05
pleia2yes, I saw!21:05
jphilipsstumbled on your episode on linux spotlight, which i hope to watch soon21:07
bluesabreNoticed the meeting minutes weren't added from the last meeting, so adding those right quick21:08
pleia2I wish I had done it from my home office in california, I was sitting in my kitchen in pennsylvania and the backdrop is boring :)21:08
pleia2jphilips: just now finally got to reviewing the video text for what is Xubuntu21:09
jphilipspleia2: thanks21:10
bluesabreLast meeting minutes added, so let's go ahead and start the meeting :)21:10
pleia2thanks, bluesabre!21:10
bluesabre#topic Open action items21:10
bluesabre#info bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up email/vote to the list21:11
bluesabreThat was in regard to the desktop changes. Now that 20.10 has started, I say lets get that vote out this week (along with the other votes we're going to have)21:11
bluesabre#action bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML21:12
meetingologyACTION: bluesabre and jphilips to send follow-up vote for desktop changes to the ML21:12
bluesabre#topic Updates and announcements21:12
jphilipscurious how to have people vote on every item suggested in the google doc?21:13
bluesabre#info akxwi-dave and slickymaster have been deactivated from the team since they've been inactive for a while. Thanks for all the support you've given us over the years!21:13
bluesabrejphilips: we'll need to consolidate some of those suggestions. I think we discussed how we were going to combine them in this meeting: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-03-19-21.00.moin.txt21:14
bluesabre#info jphilips put together a nice release video for 20.04, check it out if you haven't seen it (link below)21:15
bluesabre#link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a_uVSNnIGY21:15
pleia2it's so good!21:16
bluesabreAny other updates or announcements?21:16
jphilipsdo we want to mention about the work going on with the documentation?21:16
bluesabreDefinitely21:17
jphilipsokay21:17
bluesabreMaybe get some more contributors in the process :)21:17
jphilipsevery week we are going through a single page of the documentation in google docs21:18
jphilipsannouncing the editing of the google doc on social media and in the ML21:18
jphilipswe had a new contributor today for this week's 'What is Xubuntu?' page21:18
bluesabreOh nice21:19
pleia2great :)21:19
jphilipswe have weekly meetings on Saturday at 3pm UTC for the finalization of the edits make on the google doc worked on each week21:19
jphilipsthe weekly meeting happens on Zoom21:19
jphilipsits in audio21:20
jphilipsi think that's it for documentation21:21
bluesabreCool, thanks :)21:22
bluesabrepleia2: anything else to add for U&A?21:22
pleia2I don't think so21:22
bluesabreAlrighty21:22
bluesabreOn to the next section :)21:23
bluesabre#topic Discussion21:23
bluesabre#subtopic GitHub Proposal21:23
bluesabreI've been working on this one for a bit.21:23
bluesabreHere's the proposal: https://wiki.xubuntu.org/proposals/github21:23
bluesabreA demo Xubuntu-Team organization so we can see it in practice: https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team21:24
pleia2does this cause any problems with iso building or any of the stuff Canonical does for us? (didn't see it in the Cons)21:24
bluesabreIt shouldn't affect anything of that nature.21:25
bluesabreI also spoke with Wimpress of Ubuntu Mate (and Desktop) and he says everything works well for them there.21:25
pleia2philosophically I'm sad to see us move from an open source platform for development and translations to proprietary ones (both github and transifex) but I do understand the practical considerations21:26
pleia2it's probably worth moving just so it's easier on new developers we always need21:26
bluesabreThe one codebase we'd keep hosted on Launchpad is the seed, since AAs contribute directly to it.21:26
pleia2gotcha21:26
Unit193I'd imagine the seed has to remain on launchpad though.  I think turning off 'issues' on Github and leaving those on Launchpad (package bugs) makes sense though, since it's linked and more findable.21:27
bluesabreYeah, and that's definitely an option.21:27
pleia2Unit193: good point re: bugs21:27
Unit193Also: `ubuntu-bug` will work. :P21:28
bluesabre:)21:28
pleia2yeah, and all the related testing documentation21:28
ochosihi all21:29
ochosiweird, i didn't see the ping for the meeting21:29
ochosisry to be late21:29
bluesabrehey ochosi, glad you could make it21:30
bluesabreDisabled issues and added a note on the readme @ https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team/xubuntu-default-settings/blob/master/README.md for that example21:31
jphilipswould moving to gitlab rather than github make it more acceptable to contributors who oppose github?21:31
bluesabreEasier to see at https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team/xubuntu-default-settings21:31
Unit193bluesabre: So if it's code and translations only, yeah that makes sense I guess.  I'm not exactly keen on it either, but it is what it is.21:31
bluesabrejphilips: I think Gitlab keeps the benefit of the more advanced platform, but loses out on the wider userbase. It also creates an issue of where and how to host.21:33
bluesabreWhereas Ubuntu, derivatives, and other projects are already on GitHub.21:33
Unit193I think he means gitlab.com.21:33
jphilipsi remember ubuntu mate used to host on gitlab.com and then moved to github.com21:34
Unit193bluesabre: gitlab.xfce.org! :>21:34
ochosihaha21:34
ochosiwell we're still working on gitlab.xfce ;)21:34
ochosii would also go for github21:34
ochosibecause of the rest of *buntu also being there21:34
jphilipsoh okay. i prefer it as well.21:35
bluesabre:)21:35
ochosihow does ubuntu handle LP bugs vs. GH issues?21:36
ochosiplus do we still run package builds through LP?21:36
bluesabreWe'd keep package builds running with mirrored LP repos21:36
bluesabreAs for the bugs, we're considering now: disable GH issues, and point visitors to report issues for the packages on Ubuntu. Not sure if that interferes with merge requests.21:37
bluesabreOtherwise, LP has upstream bug linking options, like we currently do for Xfce bugs21:38
ochosidepends on whether you want to be able to automatically close issues with MRs21:38
bluesabreEven now, our bugs are only closed by package uploads (or somebody reviewing them later after upload)21:39
Unit193Which to me, makes more sense.21:39
ochosisure21:40
ochosiwhat i meant: i wouldnt expect many troubles with MRs and issues21:40
Unit193I think LP has support for watching for fix committed, but think that only works with bzr. :P21:40
ochosibut the whole mix may end up being a little confusing21:40
ochosibecause the code will be mirrored on LP21:40
ochosibut then again, i don#t remember people flocking into LP to contribute...21:40
ochosi(in the last years at least, in the early years yes)21:41
pleia2mirroring of git repos is pretty common practice across open source these days21:41
bluesabreYeah, I get lots of pastes and random emails with patches.21:41
pleia2usually it's the other way around (so it's discoverable on github, but you contribute elsewhere), but it's still a thing21:41
jphilipsubuntu mate has a page showing where to file bugs and patches for different parts of the development - https://ubuntu-mate.org/get-involved/development/21:43
pleia2if I'm honest, launchpad is already so confusing to navigate, we don't lose much by having people do different things in different places :\21:44
bluesabrejphilips: that's a pretty cool resource21:44
jphilipsyep there new website is quite nicely organized21:45
jphilipstheir*21:45
bluesabreWith all the xubuntu things being fairly easy to find from the GH homepage, it might actually make things easier https://github.com/Xubuntu-Team :D21:46
pleia2indeed :)21:46
ochosiyup21:46
bluesabreSo yeah, any other concerns or talking points? Should we open up team voting here and resume it in the ML, or just do all in the ML?21:46
bluesabreOr should we just roll with it?21:47
Unit193Moving all code hosting seems like something we might want to vote on. :>21:48
bluesabreFigured as much :D21:48
bluesabre#vote Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?21:49
meetingologyPlease vote on: Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?21:49
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)21:49
bluesabre#chair ochosi21:49
meetingologyCurrent chairs: bluesabre ochosi pleia221:49
bluesabre#chair Unit19321:49
meetingologyCurrent chairs: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia221:49
bluesabre#voters Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia221:50
meetingologyCurrent voters: Unit193 bluesabre ochosi pleia221:50
bluesabre#voters knome krytarik 21:50
meetingologyCurrent voters: Unit193 bluesabre knome krytarik ochosi pleia221:50
bluesabre+121:50
meetingology+1 received from bluesabre21:50
pleia2+121:51
meetingology+1 received from pleia221:51
Unit193+121:51
meetingology+1 received from Unit19321:51
bluesabreochosi knome krytarik?21:52
ochosi+121:53
meetingology+1 received from ochosi21:53
bluesabreNeat, 4/621:53
bluesabre#endvote21:54
meetingologyVoting ended on: Move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex?21:54
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:021:54
meetingologyMotion carried21:54
bluesabre#action bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex21:54
meetingologyACTION: bluesabre to move code hosting and translations to GitHub and Transifex21:54
bluesabreThanks for voting!21:55
bluesabre#subtopic Telegram Groups and IRC Bridge21:55
Unit193Now, does everyone have an account?  I know krytarik doesn't.21:55
bluesabreThat's fun21:55
jphilipsi have an account21:55
bluesabreRE: Github, we'll still be able to accept MRs from remote repos21:56
bluesabre#link https://wiki.xubuntu.org/proposals/telegram-bridge21:56
bluesabrejphilips: want to lead on this?21:56
jphilipsnot sure how to :D21:57
jphilipscan answer any questions people have after they've read the proposal21:57
bluesabreThere's a in-testing Telegram bridge at https://t.me/XubuntuSupport and #xubuntu-support (I think that's right)21:58
jphilipsbut the basic idea is to create telegram groups for xubuntu and xubuntu-devel and bridge them to the irc channels to make it easier for people to get involved and get help21:58
jphilipsyes we've setup a group for support and bridged it with #xubuntu-support while we await approval21:59
Unit193While I'm fully against the idea, I understand the reasoning, but I don't see the point in linking the support medium.21:59
jphilipsaaditya is the one who has setup the bridge21:59
Unit193Reasining for development*21:59
ochosii don't have a big opinion on this22:00
ochosii'm not active in the support channel for a while already, not enough time22:00
ochosiand for development i read the backlog when i have time22:00
ochosion my phone i also read stuff when i *don't* have time22:00
Unit193I #kubuntu, I see spam all the time come across, and general frustration among some of the common folks that help out.22:00
bluesabreIs it general spam, or is it just less-than-ideal visitors?22:02
ochosican't say that surprises me22:02
bluesabreI'm still pretty new to Telegram, but I have seen more open source projects seeming to embrace it recently.22:03
pleia2who has access to bringing the bridge back up if it goes down?22:03
Unit193bluesabre: Spam, it's getting to the point that when you see a female name join, you wonder if it's another drive-by. :/22:04
bluesabreOuch.22:04
pleia2Unit193: yikes :(22:04
jphilipspleia2: once its on xubuntu infra, bluesabre would have it22:04
bluesabreOnce I have access to the infra22:04
pleia2on dev.xubuntu.org or...?22:04
bluesabreI'd be willing to support if we went forward with the proposal.22:04
pleia2ok, thanks bluesabre 22:04
jphilipsunlike IRC, its easy to ban someone from the telegram group, unless they create another account with a new cell number22:05
pleia2I'm wondering if we could do a trial, and if it doesn't work just split them off to entirely separate resources22:05
bluesabreHaven't done server-side stuff for Xubuntu to this point, but that's what I spend a lot of my time on in my IRL job22:05
pleia2doesn't work == spam, unreliability, anything else that annoys people22:06
Unit193I *really* don't like that it basically would change #xubuntu-offtopic into a logged channel. :/22:07
bluesabreThat seems like a reasonable way to go about it. If the bridges turn out to be bad, the Telegram support group could just be a separate supported.22:07
pleia2I don't think we'd do it for offtopic22:07
bluesabreUnit193: oh, this is only considering #xubuntu and #xubuntu-devel22:08
Unit193bluesabre: Aha!  Thanks!22:08
jphilipsdoes anyone here have OP for #xubuntu, so we can do the trial?22:08
bluesabrejphilips: where is the current bridge currently hosted? Would we need to move infra first?22:09
jphilipsaaditya is hosting it now on his private server22:10
Unit193Who is aaditya?22:10
jphilipsthe sysadmin who volunteered to assist in setting up the bridge22:10
Unit193...Yes thanks I got that part...22:10
pleia2hehe22:10
bluesabrelol22:10
pleia2jphilips: aaditya is ok with us going "into production" with it still on his server, right?22:11
pleia2aside from that, I suspect it's up to us whether we want to move it now or later22:12
jphilipsyes22:13
pleia2so, do we want to move it first? :)22:15
pleia2I'd be more comfortable that way, but it's signing up bluesabre for work :D22:15
bluesabreI'll be deep in Github for the next week22:15
jphilipsaaditya could do it to ease the burden22:16
pleia2he's been a very helpful volunteer, but it probably requires giving root on our development server, and I'm not willing to do that :\22:16
pleia2we know bluesabre, but we don't know aaditya yet22:16
bluesabreBut if we're fine with waiting a week, I'd happily help get it set up after that.22:16
jphilipsokay22:17
pleia2seems fine to me22:17
bluesabrepleia2: do I need to talk to somebody in Canonical to get server access, or do you handle that within our team?22:18
pleia2that's me22:18
bluesabreNeato.22:18
pleia2I just need a public ssh key and preferred username22:18
bluesabreCool, I'll send those your way.22:18
pleia2great22:19
bluesabreOnce I finish the Github migration, we'll do the bridge. :)22:19
pleia2oh, you already have an account22:19
bluesabreUnit193: And you're the one to talk to about OP on #xubuntu, I take it?22:19
bluesabrepleia2: oh22:19
ochosihah22:19
pleia2so just lmk if you can't log in and we can update your key ;)22:19
Unit193Would this be another thing we vote on?22:19
pleia2Unit193: oh, probably22:20
bluesabreYeah, that seems fair.22:20
bluesabre:D22:20
jphilipspresume OP isn't necessary, was only needed for a trial I was thinking about doing were the telegram bot would muted from the IRC side22:20
bluesabre#vote Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?22:20
meetingologyPlease vote on: Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?22:20
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)22:20
pleia2+122:21
meetingology+1 received from pleia222:21
Unit193-122:21
meetingology-1 received from Unit19322:21
bluesabre+122:21
meetingology+1 received from bluesabre22:21
bluesabreochosi knome krytarik?22:21
bluesabre(this one will probably head to ML)22:22
ochosihm22:22
ochosi-122:22
meetingology-1 received from ochosi22:22
bluesabreAlrighty, ML it is for this one :)22:23
bluesabre#endvote22:23
meetingologyVoting ended on: Connect Telegram with #xubuntu?22:23
meetingologyVotes for:2 Votes against:2 Abstentions:022:23
meetingologyDeadlock, casting vote may be used22:23
bluesabre#action bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge22:23
meetingologyACTION: bluesabre to send vote to ML for Xubuntu Telegram bridge22:23
bluesabre#subtopic Xubuntu Council Nominations for the 22.04 Cycle22:24
bluesabre20.04 was great, and now its time for a 22.04 council22:24
bluesabreI don't remember what we did last time, tbh22:25
bluesabreSo I'm gonna have to dig :D22:25
Unit193[18:27:30] < Unit193> If we want to be lazy and use a template: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2018-April/011644.html22:25
bluesabreI love not digging22:25
bluesabre:D22:25
Unit193So, you, Simon and Lyz this time? :>22:26
pleia2lol22:26
bluesabreI'll do lots of begging22:26
bluesabreSo yeah, I'll fire that announcement off to the ML too22:27
ochosii'm more than likely to stick around, just not sure how actively22:27
bluesabre#action bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations22:27
meetingologyACTION: bluesabre to notify the ML of Xubuntu Council nominations22:27
ochosias you've noticed i've drifted more and more towards the various upstreams (be it shimmer or xfce)22:27
pleia2as for me, being a new parent is hard22:28
bluesabreI'm just lazy most days22:28
pleia2hehe22:28
bluesabreLet's get this wrapped up soon so everybody can have a nice evening :)22:29
bluesabre#topic AOB22:29
Unit193We might need more ML list moderators.22:29
bluesabreAnybody, anything to discuss?22:29
bluesabreYeah22:29
bluesabreI should do a better job of it22:29
bluesabre(or some job of it)22:29
Unit193I do spam, but there's other stuff there now too. :P22:30
Unit193I had another thing, but I can't remember.22:30
pleia2oh yeah, I haven't been tending to the queue at all :\22:31
pleia2sometimes I look and let month+ old things through22:31
pleia2"oops"22:31
pleia2so if anyone wants to help with moderation, do let us know :)22:31
bluesabre"Those darn ubuntu mail servers, they hold email forever"22:31
pleia2for -devel mostly it's letting legit things through and replying to support requests redirecting them to support22:31
bluesabre:)22:32
bluesabreAnything else?22:33
bluesabre(I smell dinner)22:33
jphilipsdo we want to consider opening a forum or discourse for support?22:33
Unit193Still can't remember it, so guess not.22:33
Unit193ubuntuforums.org22:33
bluesabre^ seems like the way to go22:34
Unit193Pretty sure they have a flavors section already, so we're set.22:34
bluesabreNifty.22:34
jphilipsyes a section for all flavors22:34
jphilipseach flavor has their own forum or discourse22:34
Unit193Seems covered then.22:35
jphilipsmaybe what i said wasn't clear enough. none of the flavors use ubuntuforums.org22:35
bluesabreI think we have an adequate number of support options for now in askubuntu, irc, xfce forums, and non-specialized ubuntu forums22:36
jphilipsokay22:37
bluesabreWrapping up :)22:37
bluesabre#topic Schedule next meeting22:37
bluesabre#action knome to schedule next meeting22:37
meetingologyACTION: knome to schedule next meeting22:37
bluesabre#endmeeting22:37
meetingologyMeeting ended Tue May 19 22:37:50 2020 UTC.  22:37
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2020/xubuntu-devel.2020-05-19-21.02.moin.txt22:37
bluesabreThanks everybody22:37
bluesabreDinner time, bbl22:38
Unit193Thanks, bluesabre.22:38
jphilipsthanks bluesabre 22:39
ochosithanks22:39
ochosihave a nice evening/night everyone22:39
jphilipsyou to ochosi 22:39
Unit193pleia2: Nice to catch you around again!22:40
Unit193Hrm, is it July yet?  Can I scrub bionic from all PPAs? :323:36

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