| AppAraat[m] | Hello, ubuntustudio-controls is telling me that RT permissions have not been properly installed. However, I did click on "Fix RT permissions", then logged out and back in. However it's still telling me that. | 09:35 |
|---|---|---|
| AppAraat[m] | This might be a bug in ubuntustudio-controls but in the meantime I can listen to audio just fine. | 09:51 |
| * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/UJBFYjBvJuiscBUepssSpMkR > | 09:52 | |
| AppAraat[m] | I started it like 20 min ago and it's already at 20k+ lines. | 09:53 |
| AppAraat[m] | Hmm, come to think of it, I can't seem to be able to record audio from my internal mic into Audacity... | 10:00 |
| OvenWerks | AppAraat[m]: this is -controls from Studio 20.04? That message is sort of normal, but the new version should only do that once, it just means jack is not running right now. | 16:56 |
| AppAraat[m] | This is 18.04 but with the backport PPA | 16:57 |
| OvenWerks | You may have to actually reboot to get rid of the realtime message. | 16:58 |
| AppAraat[m] | but you're saying that even with the RT message, it should still work? | 17:00 |
| OvenWerks | What is the message with the rt warning? just that you have not logged out and in? Jack may not run | 17:01 |
| OvenWerks | Jack expects to be able to lock memory | 17:01 |
| OvenWerks | Your user has to have access via being a part of the audio group | 17:02 |
| OvenWerks | Once added to the audio group, there has to be a second login to pick that up | 17:03 |
| OvenWerks | The user gets the groups at login. | 17:04 |
| OvenWerks | systemd has added trouble to things in that most DEs have not yet figgured out how to actually log out of the logind session | 17:04 |
| OvenWerks | we have fixed this in xfce, but the gnome DE may still have trouble in this area | 17:05 |
| AppAraat[m] | My user has always been a part of the audio group and is so now as well. If I fire up `qjackctl` and start it that way, it just seems to run. Here's the log of that: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149188 | 17:05 |
| AppAraat[m] | (I know that this method isn't recommended, but it's possible) | 17:06 |
| OvenWerks | Wed May 27 19:04:10 2020: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 | 17:06 |
| OvenWerks | That looks good | 17:06 |
| OvenWerks | If controls still gives the warning, then there may be a problem | 17:07 |
| OvenWerks | ... not with your setup but with the way things interact with the DE you are using | 17:07 |
| AppAraat[m] | It does... however according to my syslog: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149191 | 17:08 |
| OvenWerks | starting jack from controls should work as well | 17:08 |
| AppAraat[m] | ...which is weird because those are pretty contradicting messages. | 17:08 |
| OvenWerks | I was wondering if this may be the problem but you are 18.04: https://discourse.ardour.org/t/anyone-encountering-rt-jack-issues-after-upgrading-to-ubuntu-20-04-lts/103477 | 17:11 |
| OvenWerks | And that seems to be a new one that has shown up for people in 20.04 on some systems. | 17:11 |
| OvenWerks | It seems no one has figgured out why and which systems | 17:12 |
| * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/sgDRAMzBLJlzDJAYinNKNKNv > | 17:15 | |
| OvenWerks | so you saying that hitting the start jack button on controls doesn't work? | 17:15 |
| AppAraat[m] | ...but since the `ubuntustudio-controls` is recommended, I thought I'd try it that way. Maybe something might have conflicts with something from the previous method? | 17:16 |
| OvenWerks | both qjackctl and -controls start jackdbus the same way | 17:16 |
| AppAraat[m] | It does, and here's the JACK log when I start it via `ubuntustudio-controls`: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149195 | 17:18 |
| OvenWerks | ok good | 17:19 |
| AppAraat[m] | Is it btw normal to have 2 of these instances running? `/usr/bin/python3 -u /usr/bin/autojack` - One is from my user and another is from root. | 17:19 |
| OvenWerks | you should be able to get extra functionallity from | 17:19 |
| OvenWerks | root? jack should never be run from root... ever | 17:19 |
| OvenWerks | running jack from root will block all possibilty of a user being able to access whatever device root has taken | 17:20 |
| AppAraat[m] | hmm yeah, seems when I start JACK from `ubuntustudio-controls` I can't run audio apps anymore. For example `play -n synth whitenoise gain -6` (which I use for testing) just hangs and I had to kill -9 it. | 17:22 |
| AppAraat[m] | Might this be because I start `ubuntustudio-controls` using sudo? | 17:22 |
| OvenWerks | again you should never start jack from root | 17:23 |
| OvenWerks | if you have to do that there are other problems | 17:23 |
| OvenWerks | but yes that will mess things up a lot | 17:23 |
| AppAraat[m] | I don't start JACK from root, only `ubuntustudio-controls` | 17:23 |
| OvenWerks | you now have three (maybe more) processes running from root that should not be | 17:24 |
| OvenWerks | starting -cxontrols from root (or qjackctl) will start jack from root | 17:24 |
| OvenWerks | I would sugest a reboot to clear that stuff out | 17:24 |
| OvenWerks | audio applications must run as the user you are using | 17:25 |
| * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/rzXqbnLJjROvAJTzmQWQcrJM > | 17:28 | |
| OvenWerks | reboot | 17:28 |
| AppAraat[m] | So I'm guessing the routing in JACK got messed up somewhere | 17:28 |
| OvenWerks | There will still be other processes running as root | 17:29 |
| AppAraat[m] | https://i.imgur.com/2dl1OYI.png | 17:29 |
| OvenWerks | running _any_ audio application, utility, etc as root will block the audio devices from the user | 17:29 |
| OvenWerks | have you rebooted yet? | 17:30 |
| AppAraat[m] | No, but I will shortly. Added note: When I started `ubuntustudio-controls` as normal user, the RT warning message did not appear. | 17:30 |
| OvenWerks | yes but you need to get rid of any odd things running as root that should not be | 17:31 |
| OvenWerks | good. | 17:31 |
| OvenWerks | (that the rt message is not there) | 17:31 |
| AppAraat[m] | roger that, I'll reboot and report. | 17:33 |
| AppAraat[m] | ok, rebooted. Audio works without starting `ubuntustudio-controls` (meaning perhaps JACK isn't started yet?) | 18:27 |
| AppAraat[m] | Now will try to start JACK via `ubuntustudio-controls` | 18:27 |
| OvenWerks | cool | 18:27 |
| AppAraat[m] | Ok, started JACK via `ubuntustudio-controls`, and now audio has disappeared... | 18:27 |
| OvenWerks | are you trying to use pulse or alsa? | 18:28 |
| OvenWerks | once jack has the audio device, no other device can use it at the same tiome | 18:28 |
| AppAraat[m] | ALSA as backend, this is how PA bridging looks like: https://i.imgur.com/V6TWGMW.png | 18:29 |
| OvenWerks | there should be a pulse to jack bridge (by default) that alklows pulse to keep doing things | 18:29 |
| AppAraat[m] | I'm trying to do ALSA <-> JACK <-> PA | 18:29 |
| OvenWerks | try in a terminal: jack_lsp -c |pastebinit | 18:30 |
| OvenWerks | (show me the URL) | 18:30 |
| AppAraat[m] | https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/w4t6t2bkxR/ | 18:30 |
| OvenWerks | did that have the -c in it? | 18:31 |
| OvenWerks | I don't see any connections | 18:31 |
| AppAraat[m] | yes, I pasted exactly what you gave me. | 18:31 |
| OvenWerks | Oh of course you have set the pulse bridging to no-connections | 18:32 |
| AppAraat[m] | So I guess I have to manually make connections in JACK? I was previously doing that using `qjackctl` but how would I do this in `ubuntustudio-controls`? | 18:32 |
| OvenWerks | on pulse bridging, the is a system:playback_<dropdown> | 18:32 |
| OvenWerks | change that dropdown to 1-2 | 18:33 |
| OvenWerks | then hit Apply Audio Settings | 18:33 |
| AppAraat[m] | done... and audio has appeared! | 18:33 |
| AppAraat[m] | ok, so that's that. Now onto the testing of recording. | 18:34 |
| AppAraat[m] | I guess this time I have to choose "1 and 2" in the system:capture dropdown? | 18:36 |
| OvenWerks | yes | 18:37 |
| OvenWerks | if you are using a pulse application for recording | 18:37 |
| OvenWerks | if you are using jack directly no | 18:37 |
| OvenWerks | audcity can connect to jack | 18:37 |
| * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ORfzIRWVJXlTKAZJNRELehRP > | 18:41 | |
| AppAraat[m] | curiously enough, if I change Playback device to pulse_in-1, I can't hear its playback. | 18:42 |
| * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (43KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AHDqKNOYhfdFLmNtKxeCjmmU > | 18:43 | |
| AppAraat[m] | ^ that's how my `alsamixer` situation looks like. | 18:43 |
| AppAraat[m] | (and I tested the playback by letting Audacity generate white noise) | 18:46 |
| OvenWerks | Are you listening with headphones? | 18:48 |
| OvenWerks | Or speakers plugged into the headphone jack | 18:48 |
| OvenWerks | your speaker level is muted and turned all the way down. | 18:49 |
| AppAraat[m] | headphones are plugged into the jack, yes | 18:49 |
| OvenWerks | if you use audio host jack, then sytem:capture_1 and system:playback_1 should be the way it is set | 18:51 |
| OvenWerks | either audio host jack or audio host pulse | 18:51 |
| OvenWerks | you would want Recording device pulse-in I thik | 18:52 |
| OvenWerks | oh no, pulse-out is just wrong. I just figured out what you see | 18:52 |
| OvenWerks | recording device should be system | 18:52 |
| OvenWerks | but if you are using jack then you should not be connecting to anything labeld pulse | 18:53 |
| OvenWerks | if you are using pulse it will probably audio connect to the only source/sink which is jack | 18:54 |
| AppAraat[m] | If Recording device = system, then I can't record either. | 18:55 |
| AppAraat[m] | I'll try with headphones out. | 18:55 |
| OvenWerks | That should not make a difference for inputs | 18:55 |
| AppAraat[m] | yeah, same result unfortunately. | 18:57 |
| OvenWerks | With audacity, I find that hitting pause and then record so I can set levels first. | 18:57 |
| OvenWerks | also look in carla or qjackctl connections to make sure your input(s) are connected to audacity | 18:58 |
| OvenWerks | (note that the ports for audacity are not labeld Audacity | 18:58 |
| AppAraat[m] | yeah for some reasons it's labeled as "Portaudio" IIRC | 18:59 |
| AppAraat[m] | I don't have Carla installed but I'll try with `qjackctl` | 18:59 |
| OvenWerks | yes, because they use the portaudio lib and don't set the name up | 18:59 |
| * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (44KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vwhtpdKAeDiuSTSsWOjNHbTn > | 19:01 | |
| AppAraat[m] | ^ That is how it looks like in connections | 19:01 |
| OvenWerks | ya but audacity is not running with pause + record. | 19:01 |
| AppAraat[m] | ah ok, lemme try again | 19:02 |
| * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (48KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XkOEhLKyzlXoVLQCugGXWuAS > | 19:03 | |
| AppAraat[m] | (It's a mono track) | 19:03 |
| OvenWerks | In that case I would also connect capture_2 to in_34 as well | 19:04 |
| OvenWerks | just to be sure | 19:04 |
| OvenWerks | is that the laptop mic? | 19:04 |
| AppAraat[m] | yes | 19:05 |
| OvenWerks | are you running 44k1 or 48k sample rate? | 19:06 |
| AppAraat[m] | 48k as specified in JACK settings | 19:06 |
| AppAraat[m] | (oh btw about that: How would I know that PA is not downsampling / upsampling whatever is set in JACK / ALSA?) | 19:07 |
| OvenWerks | pulse always resamples for just about anything | 19:07 |
| OvenWerks | I only asked because I have a laptop that has a 48k only mic even though the audio out can be 44k1, 48k 96k | 19:08 |
| AppAraat[m] | I remember being able to previously record with 48k on this machine | 19:09 |
| OvenWerks | 48k should be fine | 19:09 |
| AppAraat[m] | Is there a way to prevent PA doing that btw? | 19:09 |
| AppAraat[m] | Well I guess I could temporarily kill PA, but on Ubuntu 18.04+ that's pretty much impossible | 19:10 |
| OvenWerks | pulse is never bit perfect | 19:10 |
| OvenWerks | if you are using jack then pulse does not enter into the path anyway | 19:11 |
| OvenWerks | pulse is just there to allow desktop audio to make it through jack | 19:11 |
| AppAraat[m] | But if I want bit perfect playback from say mpv? | 19:11 |
| OvenWerks | no such thing | 19:11 |
| OvenWerks | pulse is not bit perfect | 19:12 |
| OvenWerks | if you record a stereo stream with pulse audio long enough, the left and right will be different lengths | 19:12 |
| OvenWerks | even with pulse running the same samplke rate as the device and file recorded | 19:13 |
| AppAraat[m] | that is terrifying lol :p | 19:13 |
| OvenWerks | it is meant for playback of youtube and doing skype calls | 19:13 |
| OvenWerks | that is why jack exists | 19:13 |
| OvenWerks | jack is bit perfect | 19:14 |
| AppAraat[m] | yeah I'd rather get rid of that behavior, so is there a way to (temporarily) kill PA on 18.04? | 19:14 |
| OvenWerks | you don't need to | 19:15 |
| OvenWerks | pulse can idle in the background without effecting anything | 19:15 |
| OvenWerks | you can remove the pulse-jack bridges if you want jack to be separated from pulse too | 19:15 |
| OvenWerks | pulse will just use a dummy back end | 19:15 |
| OvenWerks | (thing write only memory) | 19:16 |
| AppAraat[m] | as of now I've set mpv to try PA first, this is mainly because otherwise with videos that have 6 channels of audio, that's going to be messy (I have to repatch everything manually using JACK) | 19:16 |
| OvenWerks | :) yeah 6 channel stuff in jack is less than fun | 19:17 |
| AppAraat[m] | haha so it's a common thing then, I'm glad I'm not the only one frustrated with that | 19:17 |
| OvenWerks | something to add to another version of -controls would be pulse bridge with 6 channels | 19:18 |
| OvenWerks | it can be done from command line of course. | 19:18 |
| OvenWerks | most people interested in recording do two channel audio | 19:19 |
| AppAraat[m] | well currently as it stands I can just sum those 6 channels of audio into 2 using mpv's `cycle-values audio-channels mono stereo`... but that's _only_ when mpv has the PA as audio driver. If JACK, then all of it is summed on the left channel :p | 19:20 |
| OvenWerks | wierd | 19:20 |
| AppAraat[m] | oh for recording I just have set stuff up in my DAW, which uses JACK | 19:21 |
| OvenWerks | yes | 19:21 |
| OvenWerks | the pulse bridge just sits there and does nothing | 19:21 |
| OvenWerks | The only time to use pulse for a DAW, is if someone is using blue tooth head phones for monitoring | 19:22 |
| AppAraat[m] | oh lord... I'm not even going to ask why that is a thing | 19:23 |
| OvenWerks | it is handy for mixing on a subway... | 19:23 |
| OvenWerks | (I am told) | 19:23 |
| AppAraat[m] | lol | 19:23 |
| AppAraat[m] | hmm, well anyway there's one last thing I want to try about this whole recording shenanigans and that's to look whether or not I have disabled the mic in the BIOS | 19:24 |
| AppAraat[m] | because knowing myself, that would be the perfect conclusion of the day | 19:25 |
| OvenWerks | maybe try meter bridge connected to both of your capture ports | 19:25 |
| OvenWerks | if you don't se signal there, that is odd | 19:25 |
| OvenWerks | you can stop jack with controls and try audacity with either pulse of alsa as a back end as well | 19:26 |
| AppAraat[m] | What is a meter bridge though? | 19:28 |
| OvenWerks | just two meters that can be connected (via qjackctl connections) to your inputs to see if there is signal there | 19:29 |
| AppAraat[m] | oh ok, any recommendations of meters from the UbuntuStudio repos? | 19:30 |
| OvenWerks | the meterbridge package has them | 19:31 |
| OvenWerks | almost everything else is a plugin. | 19:31 |
| AppAraat[m] | meter bridge says no: | 19:40 |
| * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (51KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/aeKOHzYdlvnGeHyRSnQLnFHu > | 19:40 | |
| AppAraat[m] | let's stop JACK | 19:40 |
| Eickmeyer | There's a ton of different meter plugins, including BigMeter, accessible from Carla. | 19:44 |
| AppAraat[m] | Audacity with ALSA backend, have set recording device to "pulse" as well as "HDA Intel..." I still can't record. In terms of playback, I can only hear something when I set it to either "sysdefault" or "dmix" | 19:45 |
| AppAraat[m] | Welp, time for a BIOS setup dive then :) | 19:45 |
| OvenWerks | That sound hardwarish | 19:47 |
| AppAraat[m] | if I have it disabled in BIOS I will hit my head against the fridge | 19:50 |
| OvenWerks | don't hurt the fridge... | 19:52 |
| * OvenWerks didn't know laptop mics could be disabled in bios | 19:55 | |
| AppAraat[m] | Well, sacrifices have to be made. | 19:58 |
| AppAraat[m] | But luckily I don't see that option anywhere in the BIOS settings, so the fridge can rest assured. | 19:59 |
| AppAraat[m] | One other thing I can try is to download the UbuntuStudio 18.04 ISO and try this in a live environment.... | 20:12 |
| OvenWerks | yes | 20:12 |
| Eickmeyer | The Ubuntu Studio Controls on the 18.04 ISO is *way* different. | 20:18 |
| Eickmeyer | Why not 20.04? | 20:18 |
| OvenWerks | he has ppa version | 20:18 |
| Eickmeyer | Yeah, but that requires manually adding the PPA during the live session, which will eat RAM. | 20:19 |
| OvenWerks | Ah that. | 20:19 |
| AppAraat[m] | well, I remember it also working without that PPA. And yeah, migration to 20.04 is planned. | 20:36 |
| Eickmeyer | The version of Controls on the 18.04 ISO only has a couple of checkboxes. It never controlled Jack. | 20:37 |
| Eickmeyer | Hence, it's not supprted without the backports PPA. | 20:37 |
| AppAraat[m] | Sure, but I mean I could make recording work even without `ubuntustudio-controls` | 20:51 |
| Wangdoodle | I need help troubleshooting why my sound quit working. Was using qjackctl and ardour to add a midi drum track and it worked. After saving and reopening, I have no sound output. Tried ubuntustudio-controls and same. Is it okay to ask about this here? | 20:58 |
| Wangdoodle | I can see the beat playing in the mixer but I don't hear it. That output works fine when Jack is disconnected. | 21:10 |
| Wangdoodle | running kubuntu 20 with the ubuntustudio-installer packages | 21:11 |
| Wangdoodle | when I load the file in ALSA mode, not using jack, there's also no sound. I can double click the Red Zepplin drumkit and click the image and it does the visual, the eq jumps, but no sound. | 21:23 |
| Wangdoodle | Other sessions work fine with the midi drums. Weird. Well, it isn't important. I'll just start a new session for this... but is this chat even working? | 21:36 |
| Eickmeyer | Wangdoodle: The chat is working, just nobody is available to help you. | 21:37 |
| Wangdoodle | ok, thanks | 21:37 |
| Eickmeyer | You can try #opensourcemusicians or #lau (Linux Audio Users). | 21:37 |
| Wangdoodle | Thanks, making a note. :D | 21:38 |
| === genii_ is now known as genii | ||
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