[09:35] Hello, ubuntustudio-controls is telling me that RT permissions have not been properly installed. However, I did click on "Fix RT permissions", then logged out and back in. However it's still telling me that. [09:51] This might be a bug in ubuntustudio-controls but in the meantime I can listen to audio just fine. [09:52] * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/UJBFYjBvJuiscBUepssSpMkR > [09:53] I started it like 20 min ago and it's already at 20k+ lines. [10:00] Hmm, come to think of it, I can't seem to be able to record audio from my internal mic into Audacity... [16:56] AppAraat[m]: this is -controls from Studio 20.04? That message is sort of normal, but the new version should only do that once, it just means jack is not running right now. [16:57] This is 18.04 but with the backport PPA [16:58] You may have to actually reboot to get rid of the realtime message. [17:00] but you're saying that even with the RT message, it should still work? [17:01] What is the message with the rt warning? just that you have not logged out and in? Jack may not run [17:01] Jack expects to be able to lock memory [17:02] Your user has to have access via being a part of the audio group [17:03] Once added to the audio group, there has to be a second login to pick that up [17:04] The user gets the groups at login. [17:04] systemd has added trouble to things in that most DEs have not yet figgured out how to actually log out of the logind session [17:05] we have fixed this in xfce, but the gnome DE may still have trouble in this area [17:05] My user has always been a part of the audio group and is so now as well. If I fire up `qjackctl` and start it that way, it just seems to run. Here's the log of that: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149188 [17:06] (I know that this method isn't recommended, but it's possible) [17:06] Wed May 27 19:04:10 2020: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 [17:06] That looks good [17:07] If controls still gives the warning, then there may be a problem [17:07] ... not with your setup but with the way things interact with the DE you are using [17:08] It does... however according to my syslog: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149191 [17:08] starting jack from controls should work as well [17:08] ...which is weird because those are pretty contradicting messages. [17:11] I was wondering if this may be the problem but you are 18.04: https://discourse.ardour.org/t/anyone-encountering-rt-jack-issues-after-upgrading-to-ubuntu-20-04-lts/103477 [17:11] And that seems to be a new one that has shown up for people in 20.04 on some systems. [17:12] It seems no one has figgured out why and which systems [17:15] * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/sgDRAMzBLJlzDJAYinNKNKNv > [17:15] so you saying that hitting the start jack button on controls doesn't work? [17:16] ...but since the `ubuntustudio-controls` is recommended, I thought I'd try it that way. Maybe something might have conflicts with something from the previous method? [17:16] both qjackctl and -controls start jackdbus the same way [17:18] It does, and here's the JACK log when I start it via `ubuntustudio-controls`: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149195 [17:19] ok good [17:19] Is it btw normal to have 2 of these instances running? `/usr/bin/python3 -u /usr/bin/autojack` - One is from my user and another is from root. [17:19] you should be able to get extra functionallity from [17:19] root? jack should never be run from root... ever [17:20] running jack from root will block all possibilty of a user being able to access whatever device root has taken [17:22] hmm yeah, seems when I start JACK from `ubuntustudio-controls` I can't run audio apps anymore. For example `play -n synth whitenoise gain -6` (which I use for testing) just hangs and I had to kill -9 it. [17:22] Might this be because I start `ubuntustudio-controls` using sudo? [17:23] again you should never start jack from root [17:23] if you have to do that there are other problems [17:23] but yes that will mess things up a lot [17:23] I don't start JACK from root, only `ubuntustudio-controls` [17:24] you now have three (maybe more) processes running from root that should not be [17:24] starting -cxontrols from root (or qjackctl) will start jack from root [17:24] I would sugest a reboot to clear that stuff out [17:25] audio applications must run as the user you are using [17:28] * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/rzXqbnLJjROvAJTzmQWQcrJM > [17:28] reboot [17:28] So I'm guessing the routing in JACK got messed up somewhere [17:29] There will still be other processes running as root [17:29] https://i.imgur.com/2dl1OYI.png [17:29] running _any_ audio application, utility, etc as root will block the audio devices from the user [17:30] have you rebooted yet? [17:30] No, but I will shortly. Added note: When I started `ubuntustudio-controls` as normal user, the RT warning message did not appear. [17:31] yes but you need to get rid of any odd things running as root that should not be [17:31] good. [17:31] (that the rt message is not there) [17:33] roger that, I'll reboot and report. [18:27] ok, rebooted. Audio works without starting `ubuntustudio-controls` (meaning perhaps JACK isn't started yet?) [18:27] Now will try to start JACK via `ubuntustudio-controls` [18:27] cool [18:27] Ok, started JACK via `ubuntustudio-controls`, and now audio has disappeared... [18:28] are you trying to use pulse or alsa? [18:28] once jack has the audio device, no other device can use it at the same tiome [18:29] ALSA as backend, this is how PA bridging looks like: https://i.imgur.com/V6TWGMW.png [18:29] there should be a pulse to jack bridge (by default) that alklows pulse to keep doing things [18:29] I'm trying to do ALSA <-> JACK <-> PA [18:30] try in a terminal: jack_lsp -c |pastebinit [18:30] (show me the URL) [18:30] https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/w4t6t2bkxR/ [18:31] did that have the -c in it? [18:31] I don't see any connections [18:31] yes, I pasted exactly what you gave me. [18:32] Oh of course you have set the pulse bridging to no-connections [18:32] So I guess I have to manually make connections in JACK? I was previously doing that using `qjackctl` but how would I do this in `ubuntustudio-controls`? [18:32] on pulse bridging, the is a system:playback_ [18:33] change that dropdown to 1-2 [18:33] then hit Apply Audio Settings [18:33] done... and audio has appeared! [18:34] ok, so that's that. Now onto the testing of recording. [18:36] I guess this time I have to choose "1 and 2" in the system:capture dropdown? [18:37] yes [18:37] if you are using a pulse application for recording [18:37] if you are using jack directly no [18:37] audcity can connect to jack [18:41] * AppAraat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ORfzIRWVJXlTKAZJNRELehRP > [18:42] curiously enough, if I change Playback device to pulse_in-1, I can't hear its playback. [18:43] * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (43KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AHDqKNOYhfdFLmNtKxeCjmmU > [18:43] ^ that's how my `alsamixer` situation looks like. [18:46] (and I tested the playback by letting Audacity generate white noise) [18:48] Are you listening with headphones? [18:48] Or speakers plugged into the headphone jack [18:49] your speaker level is muted and turned all the way down. [18:49] headphones are plugged into the jack, yes [18:51] if you use audio host jack, then sytem:capture_1 and system:playback_1 should be the way it is set [18:51] either audio host jack or audio host pulse [18:52] you would want Recording device pulse-in I thik [18:52] oh no, pulse-out is just wrong. I just figured out what you see [18:52] recording device should be system [18:53] but if you are using jack then you should not be connecting to anything labeld pulse [18:54] if you are using pulse it will probably audio connect to the only source/sink which is jack [18:55] If Recording device = system, then I can't record either. [18:55] I'll try with headphones out. [18:55] That should not make a difference for inputs [18:57] yeah, same result unfortunately. [18:57] With audacity, I find that hitting pause and then record so I can set levels first. [18:58] also look in carla or qjackctl connections to make sure your input(s) are connected to audacity [18:58] (note that the ports for audacity are not labeld Audacity [18:59] yeah for some reasons it's labeled as "Portaudio" IIRC [18:59] I don't have Carla installed but I'll try with `qjackctl` [18:59] yes, because they use the portaudio lib and don't set the name up [19:01] * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (44KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vwhtpdKAeDiuSTSsWOjNHbTn > [19:01] ^ That is how it looks like in connections [19:01] ya but audacity is not running with pause + record. [19:02] ah ok, lemme try again [19:03] * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (48KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XkOEhLKyzlXoVLQCugGXWuAS > [19:03] (It's a mono track) [19:04] In that case I would also connect capture_2 to in_34 as well [19:04] just to be sure [19:04] is that the laptop mic? [19:05] yes [19:06] are you running 44k1 or 48k sample rate? [19:06] 48k as specified in JACK settings [19:07] (oh btw about that: How would I know that PA is not downsampling / upsampling whatever is set in JACK / ALSA?) [19:07] pulse always resamples for just about anything [19:08] I only asked because I have a laptop that has a 48k only mic even though the audio out can be 44k1, 48k 96k [19:09] I remember being able to previously record with 48k on this machine [19:09] 48k should be fine [19:09] Is there a way to prevent PA doing that btw? [19:10] Well I guess I could temporarily kill PA, but on Ubuntu 18.04+ that's pretty much impossible [19:10] pulse is never bit perfect [19:11] if you are using jack then pulse does not enter into the path anyway [19:11] pulse is just there to allow desktop audio to make it through jack [19:11] But if I want bit perfect playback from say mpv? [19:11] no such thing [19:12] pulse is not bit perfect [19:12] if you record a stereo stream with pulse audio long enough, the left and right will be different lengths [19:13] even with pulse running the same samplke rate as the device and file recorded [19:13] that is terrifying lol :p [19:13] it is meant for playback of youtube and doing skype calls [19:13] that is why jack exists [19:14] jack is bit perfect [19:14] yeah I'd rather get rid of that behavior, so is there a way to (temporarily) kill PA on 18.04? [19:15] you don't need to [19:15] pulse can idle in the background without effecting anything [19:15] you can remove the pulse-jack bridges if you want jack to be separated from pulse too [19:15] pulse will just use a dummy back end [19:16] (thing write only memory) [19:16] as of now I've set mpv to try PA first, this is mainly because otherwise with videos that have 6 channels of audio, that's going to be messy (I have to repatch everything manually using JACK) [19:17] :) yeah 6 channel stuff in jack is less than fun [19:17] haha so it's a common thing then, I'm glad I'm not the only one frustrated with that [19:18] something to add to another version of -controls would be pulse bridge with 6 channels [19:18] it can be done from command line of course. [19:19] most people interested in recording do two channel audio [19:20] well currently as it stands I can just sum those 6 channels of audio into 2 using mpv's `cycle-values audio-channels mono stereo`... but that's _only_ when mpv has the PA as audio driver. If JACK, then all of it is summed on the left channel :p [19:20] wierd [19:21] oh for recording I just have set stuff up in my DAW, which uses JACK [19:21] yes [19:21] the pulse bridge just sits there and does nothing [19:22] The only time to use pulse for a DAW, is if someone is using blue tooth head phones for monitoring [19:23] oh lord... I'm not even going to ask why that is a thing [19:23] it is handy for mixing on a subway... [19:23] (I am told) [19:23] lol [19:24] hmm, well anyway there's one last thing I want to try about this whole recording shenanigans and that's to look whether or not I have disabled the mic in the BIOS [19:25] because knowing myself, that would be the perfect conclusion of the day [19:25] maybe try meter bridge connected to both of your capture ports [19:25] if you don't se signal there, that is odd [19:26] you can stop jack with controls and try audacity with either pulse of alsa as a back end as well [19:28] What is a meter bridge though? [19:29] just two meters that can be connected (via qjackctl connections) to your inputs to see if there is signal there [19:30] oh ok, any recommendations of meters from the UbuntuStudio repos? [19:31] the meterbridge package has them [19:31] almost everything else is a plugin. [19:40] meter bridge says no: [19:40] * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (51KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/aeKOHzYdlvnGeHyRSnQLnFHu > [19:40] let's stop JACK [19:44] There's a ton of different meter plugins, including BigMeter, accessible from Carla. [19:45] Audacity with ALSA backend, have set recording device to "pulse" as well as "HDA Intel..." I still can't record. In terms of playback, I can only hear something when I set it to either "sysdefault" or "dmix" [19:45] Welp, time for a BIOS setup dive then :) [19:47] That sound hardwarish [19:50] if I have it disabled in BIOS I will hit my head against the fridge [19:52] don't hurt the fridge... [19:55] * OvenWerks didn't know laptop mics could be disabled in bios [19:58] Well, sacrifices have to be made. [19:59] But luckily I don't see that option anywhere in the BIOS settings, so the fridge can rest assured. [20:12] One other thing I can try is to download the UbuntuStudio 18.04 ISO and try this in a live environment.... [20:12] yes [20:18] The Ubuntu Studio Controls on the 18.04 ISO is *way* different. [20:18] Why not 20.04? [20:18] he has ppa version [20:19] Yeah, but that requires manually adding the PPA during the live session, which will eat RAM. [20:19] Ah that. [20:36] well, I remember it also working without that PPA. And yeah, migration to 20.04 is planned. [20:37] The version of Controls on the 18.04 ISO only has a couple of checkboxes. It never controlled Jack. [20:37] Hence, it's not supprted without the backports PPA. [20:51] Sure, but I mean I could make recording work even without `ubuntustudio-controls` [20:58] I need help troubleshooting why my sound quit working. Was using qjackctl and ardour to add a midi drum track and it worked. After saving and reopening, I have no sound output. Tried ubuntustudio-controls and same. Is it okay to ask about this here? [21:10] I can see the beat playing in the mixer but I don't hear it. That output works fine when Jack is disconnected. [21:11] running kubuntu 20 with the ubuntustudio-installer packages [21:23] when I load the file in ALSA mode, not using jack, there's also no sound. I can double click the Red Zepplin drumkit and click the image and it does the visual, the eq jumps, but no sound. [21:36] Other sessions work fine with the midi drums. Weird. Well, it isn't important. I'll just start a new session for this... but is this chat even working? [21:37] Wangdoodle: The chat is working, just nobody is available to help you. [21:37] ok, thanks [21:37] You can try #opensourcemusicians or #lau (Linux Audio Users). [21:38] Thanks, making a note. :D === genii_ is now known as genii