[09:35] <AppAraat[m]> Hello, ubuntustudio-controls is telling me that RT permissions have not been properly installed. However, I did click on "Fix RT permissions", then logged out and back in. However it's still telling me that.
[09:51] <AppAraat[m]> This might be a bug in ubuntustudio-controls but in the meantime I can listen to audio just fine.
[09:52]  * AppAraat[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/UJBFYjBvJuiscBUepssSpMkR >
[09:53] <AppAraat[m]> I started it like 20 min ago and it's already at 20k+ lines.
[10:00] <AppAraat[m]> Hmm, come to think of it, I can't seem to be able to record audio from my internal mic into Audacity...
[16:56] <OvenWerks> AppAraat[m]: this is -controls from Studio 20.04? That message is sort of normal, but the new version should only do that once, it just means jack is not running right now.
[16:57] <AppAraat[m]> This is 18.04 but with the backport PPA
[16:58] <OvenWerks> You may have to actually reboot to get rid of the realtime message.
[17:00] <AppAraat[m]> but you're saying that even with the RT message, it should still work?
[17:01] <OvenWerks> What is the message with the rt warning? just that you have not logged out and in? Jack may not run
[17:01] <OvenWerks> Jack expects to be able to lock memory
[17:02] <OvenWerks> Your user has to have access via being a part of the audio group
[17:03] <OvenWerks> Once added to the audio group, there has to be a second login to pick that up
[17:04] <OvenWerks> The user gets the groups at login.
[17:04] <OvenWerks> systemd has added trouble to things in that most DEs have not yet figgured out how to actually log out of the logind session
[17:05] <OvenWerks> we have fixed this in xfce, but the gnome DE may still have trouble in this area
[17:05] <AppAraat[m]> My user has always been a part of the audio group and is so now as well. If I fire up `qjackctl` and start it that way, it just seems to run. Here's the log of that: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149188
[17:06] <AppAraat[m]> (I know that this method isn't recommended, but it's possible)
[17:06] <OvenWerks> Wed May 27 19:04:10 2020: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10
[17:06] <OvenWerks> That looks good
[17:07] <OvenWerks> If controls still gives the warning, then there may be a problem
[17:07] <OvenWerks> ... not with your setup but with the way things interact with the DE you are using
[17:08] <AppAraat[m]> It does... however according to my syslog: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149191
[17:08] <OvenWerks> starting jack from controls should work as well
[17:08] <AppAraat[m]> ...which is weird because those are pretty contradicting messages.
[17:11] <OvenWerks> I was wondering if this may be the problem but you are 18.04: https://discourse.ardour.org/t/anyone-encountering-rt-jack-issues-after-upgrading-to-ubuntu-20-04-lts/103477
[17:11] <OvenWerks> And that seems to be a new one that has shown up for people in 20.04 on some systems.
[17:12] <OvenWerks> It seems no one has figgured out why and which systems
[17:15]  * AppAraat[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/sgDRAMzBLJlzDJAYinNKNKNv >
[17:15] <OvenWerks> so you saying that hitting the start jack button on controls doesn't work?
[17:16] <AppAraat[m]> ...but since the `ubuntustudio-controls` is recommended, I thought I'd try it that way.  Maybe something might have conflicts with something from the previous method?
[17:16] <OvenWerks> both qjackctl and -controls start jackdbus the same way
[17:18] <AppAraat[m]> It does, and here's the JACK log when I start it via `ubuntustudio-controls`: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1149195
[17:19] <OvenWerks> ok good
[17:19] <AppAraat[m]> Is it btw normal to have 2 of these instances running? `/usr/bin/python3 -u /usr/bin/autojack` - One is from my user and another is from root.
[17:19] <OvenWerks> you should be able to get extra functionallity from
[17:19] <OvenWerks> root? jack should never be run from root... ever
[17:20] <OvenWerks> running jack from root will block all possibilty of a user being able to access whatever device root has taken
[17:22] <AppAraat[m]> hmm yeah, seems when I start JACK from `ubuntustudio-controls` I can't run audio apps anymore. For example `play -n synth whitenoise gain -6` (which I use for testing) just hangs and I had to kill -9 it.
[17:22] <AppAraat[m]> Might this be because I start `ubuntustudio-controls` using sudo?
[17:23] <OvenWerks> again you should never start jack from root
[17:23] <OvenWerks> if you have to do that there are other problems
[17:23] <OvenWerks> but yes that will mess things up a lot
[17:23] <AppAraat[m]> I don't start JACK from root, only `ubuntustudio-controls`
[17:24] <OvenWerks> you now have three (maybe more) processes running from root that should not be
[17:24] <OvenWerks> starting -cxontrols from root (or qjackctl) will start jack from root
[17:24] <OvenWerks> I would sugest a reboot to clear that stuff out
[17:25] <OvenWerks> audio applications must run as the user you are using
[17:28]  * AppAraat[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/rzXqbnLJjROvAJTzmQWQcrJM >
[17:28] <OvenWerks> reboot
[17:28] <AppAraat[m]> So I'm guessing the routing in JACK got messed up somewhere
[17:29] <OvenWerks> There will still be other processes running as root
[17:29] <AppAraat[m]> https://i.imgur.com/2dl1OYI.png
[17:29] <OvenWerks> running _any_ audio application, utility, etc as root will block the audio devices from the user
[17:30] <OvenWerks> have you rebooted yet?
[17:30] <AppAraat[m]> No, but I will shortly. Added note: When I started `ubuntustudio-controls` as normal user, the RT warning message did not appear.
[17:31] <OvenWerks> yes but you need to get rid of any odd things running as root that should not be
[17:31] <OvenWerks> good.
[17:31] <OvenWerks> (that the rt message is not there)
[17:33] <AppAraat[m]> roger that, I'll reboot and report.
[18:27] <AppAraat[m]> ok, rebooted. Audio works without starting `ubuntustudio-controls` (meaning perhaps JACK isn't started yet?)
[18:27] <AppAraat[m]> Now will try to start JACK via `ubuntustudio-controls`
[18:27] <OvenWerks> cool
[18:27] <AppAraat[m]> Ok, started JACK via `ubuntustudio-controls`, and now audio has disappeared...
[18:28] <OvenWerks> are you trying to use pulse or alsa?
[18:28] <OvenWerks> once jack has the audio device, no other device can use it at the same tiome
[18:29] <AppAraat[m]> ALSA as backend, this is how PA bridging looks like: https://i.imgur.com/V6TWGMW.png
[18:29] <OvenWerks> there should be a pulse to jack bridge (by default) that alklows pulse to keep doing things
[18:29] <AppAraat[m]> I'm trying to do ALSA <-> JACK <-> PA
[18:30] <OvenWerks> try in a terminal: jack_lsp -c |pastebinit
[18:30] <OvenWerks> (show me the URL)
[18:30] <AppAraat[m]> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/w4t6t2bkxR/
[18:31] <OvenWerks> did that have the -c in it?
[18:31] <OvenWerks> I don't see any connections
[18:31] <AppAraat[m]> yes, I pasted exactly what you gave me.
[18:32] <OvenWerks> Oh of course you have set the pulse bridging to no-connections
[18:32] <AppAraat[m]> So I guess I have to manually make connections in JACK? I was previously doing that using `qjackctl` but how would I do this in `ubuntustudio-controls`?
[18:32] <OvenWerks> on pulse bridging, the is a system:playback_<dropdown>
[18:33] <OvenWerks> change that dropdown to 1-2
[18:33] <OvenWerks> then hit Apply Audio Settings
[18:33] <AppAraat[m]> done... and audio has appeared!
[18:34] <AppAraat[m]> ok, so that's that. Now onto the testing of recording.
[18:36] <AppAraat[m]> I guess this time I have to choose "1 and 2" in the system:capture dropdown?
[18:37] <OvenWerks> yes
[18:37] <OvenWerks> if you are using a pulse application for recording
[18:37] <OvenWerks> if you are using jack directly no
[18:37] <OvenWerks> audcity can connect to jack
[18:41]  * AppAraat[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ORfzIRWVJXlTKAZJNRELehRP >
[18:42] <AppAraat[m]> curiously enough, if I change Playback device to pulse_in-1, I can't hear its playback.
[18:43]  * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (43KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/AHDqKNOYhfdFLmNtKxeCjmmU >
[18:43] <AppAraat[m]> ^ that's how my `alsamixer` situation looks like.
[18:46] <AppAraat[m]> (and I tested the playback by letting Audacity generate white noise)
[18:48] <OvenWerks> Are you listening with headphones?
[18:48] <OvenWerks> Or speakers plugged into the headphone jack
[18:49] <OvenWerks> your speaker level is muted and turned all the way down.
[18:49] <AppAraat[m]> headphones are plugged into the jack, yes
[18:51] <OvenWerks> if you use audio host jack, then sytem:capture_1 and system:playback_1 should be the way it is set
[18:51] <OvenWerks> either audio host jack or audio host pulse
[18:52] <OvenWerks> you would want Recording device pulse-in I thik
[18:52] <OvenWerks> oh no, pulse-out is just wrong. I just figured out what you see
[18:52] <OvenWerks> recording device should be system
[18:53] <OvenWerks> but if you are using jack then you should not be connecting to anything labeld pulse
[18:54] <OvenWerks> if you are using pulse it will probably audio connect to the only source/sink which is jack
[18:55] <AppAraat[m]> If Recording device = system, then I can't record either.
[18:55] <AppAraat[m]> I'll try with headphones out.
[18:55] <OvenWerks> That should not make a difference for inputs
[18:57] <AppAraat[m]> yeah, same result unfortunately.
[18:57] <OvenWerks> With audacity, I find that hitting pause and then record so I can set levels first.
[18:58] <OvenWerks> also look in carla or qjackctl connections to make sure your input(s) are connected to audacity
[18:58] <OvenWerks> (note that the ports for audacity are not labeld Audacity
[18:59] <AppAraat[m]> yeah for some reasons it's labeled as "Portaudio" IIRC
[18:59] <AppAraat[m]> I don't have Carla installed but I'll try with `qjackctl`
[18:59] <OvenWerks> yes, because they use the portaudio lib and don't set the name up
[19:01]  * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (44KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vwhtpdKAeDiuSTSsWOjNHbTn >
[19:01] <AppAraat[m]> ^ That is how it looks like in connections
[19:01] <OvenWerks> ya but audacity is not running with pause + record.
[19:02] <AppAraat[m]> ah ok, lemme try again
[19:03]  * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (48KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XkOEhLKyzlXoVLQCugGXWuAS >
[19:03] <AppAraat[m]> (It's a mono track)
[19:04] <OvenWerks> In that case I would also connect capture_2 to in_34 as well
[19:04] <OvenWerks> just to be sure
[19:04] <OvenWerks> is that the laptop mic?
[19:05] <AppAraat[m]> yes
[19:06] <OvenWerks> are you running 44k1 or 48k sample rate?
[19:06] <AppAraat[m]> 48k as specified in JACK settings
[19:07] <AppAraat[m]> (oh btw about that: How would I know that PA is not downsampling / upsampling whatever is set in JACK / ALSA?)
[19:07] <OvenWerks> pulse always resamples for just about anything
[19:08] <OvenWerks> I only asked because I have a laptop that has a 48k only mic even though the audio out can be 44k1, 48k 96k
[19:09] <AppAraat[m]> I remember being able to previously record with 48k on this machine
[19:09] <OvenWerks> 48k should be fine
[19:09] <AppAraat[m]> Is there a way to prevent PA doing that btw?
[19:10] <AppAraat[m]> Well I guess I could temporarily kill PA, but on Ubuntu 18.04+ that's pretty much impossible
[19:10] <OvenWerks> pulse is never bit perfect
[19:11] <OvenWerks> if you are using jack then pulse does not enter into the path anyway
[19:11] <OvenWerks> pulse is just there to allow desktop audio to make it through jack
[19:11] <AppAraat[m]> But if I want bit perfect playback from say mpv?
[19:11] <OvenWerks> no such thing
[19:12] <OvenWerks> pulse is not bit perfect
[19:12] <OvenWerks> if you record a stereo stream with pulse audio long enough, the left and right will be different lengths
[19:13] <OvenWerks> even with pulse running the same samplke rate as the device and file recorded
[19:13] <AppAraat[m]> that is terrifying lol :p
[19:13] <OvenWerks> it is meant for playback of youtube and doing skype calls
[19:13] <OvenWerks> that is why jack exists
[19:14] <OvenWerks> jack is bit perfect
[19:14] <AppAraat[m]> yeah I'd rather get rid of that behavior, so is there a way to (temporarily) kill PA on 18.04?
[19:15] <OvenWerks> you don't need to
[19:15] <OvenWerks> pulse can idle in the background without effecting anything
[19:15] <OvenWerks> you can remove the pulse-jack bridges if you want jack to be separated from pulse too
[19:15] <OvenWerks> pulse will just use a dummy back end
[19:16] <OvenWerks> (thing write only memory)
[19:16] <AppAraat[m]> as of now I've set mpv to try PA first, this is mainly because otherwise with videos that have 6 channels of audio, that's going to be messy (I have to repatch everything manually using JACK)
[19:17] <OvenWerks> :) yeah 6 channel stuff in jack is less than fun
[19:17] <AppAraat[m]> haha so it's a common thing then, I'm glad I'm not the only one frustrated with that
[19:18] <OvenWerks> something to add to another version of -controls would be pulse bridge with 6 channels
[19:18] <OvenWerks> it can be done from command line of course.
[19:19] <OvenWerks> most people interested in recording do two channel audio
[19:20] <AppAraat[m]> well currently as it stands I can just sum those 6 channels of audio into 2 using mpv's `cycle-values audio-channels mono stereo`... but that's _only_ when mpv has the PA as audio driver. If JACK, then all of it is summed on the left channel :p
[19:20] <OvenWerks> wierd
[19:21] <AppAraat[m]> oh for recording I just have set stuff up in my DAW, which uses JACK
[19:21] <OvenWerks> yes
[19:21] <OvenWerks> the pulse bridge just sits there and does nothing
[19:22] <OvenWerks> The only time to use pulse for a DAW, is if someone is using blue tooth head phones for monitoring
[19:23] <AppAraat[m]> oh lord... I'm not even going to ask why that is a thing
[19:23] <OvenWerks> it is handy for mixing on a subway...
[19:23] <OvenWerks> (I am told)
[19:23] <AppAraat[m]> lol
[19:24] <AppAraat[m]> hmm, well anyway there's one last thing I want to try about this whole recording shenanigans and that's to look whether or not I have disabled the mic in the BIOS
[19:25] <AppAraat[m]> because knowing myself, that would be the perfect conclusion of the day
[19:25] <OvenWerks> maybe try meter bridge connected to both of your capture ports
[19:25] <OvenWerks> if you don't se signal there, that is odd
[19:26] <OvenWerks> you can stop jack with controls and try audacity with either pulse of alsa as a back end as well
[19:28] <AppAraat[m]> What is a meter bridge though?
[19:29] <OvenWerks> just two meters that can be connected (via qjackctl connections) to your inputs to see if there is signal there
[19:30] <AppAraat[m]> oh ok, any recommendations of meters from the UbuntuStudio repos?
[19:31] <OvenWerks> the meterbridge package has them
[19:31] <OvenWerks> almost everything else is a plugin.
[19:40] <AppAraat[m]> meter bridge says no:
[19:40]  * AppAraat[m] uploaded an image: image.png (51KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/aeKOHzYdlvnGeHyRSnQLnFHu >
[19:40] <AppAraat[m]> let's stop JACK
[19:44] <Eickmeyer> There's a ton of different meter plugins, including BigMeter, accessible from Carla.
[19:45] <AppAraat[m]> Audacity with ALSA backend, have set recording device to "pulse" as well as "HDA Intel..." I still can't record. In terms of playback, I can only hear something when I set it to either "sysdefault" or "dmix"
[19:45] <AppAraat[m]> Welp, time for a BIOS setup dive then :)
[19:47] <OvenWerks> That sound hardwarish
[19:50] <AppAraat[m]> if I have it disabled in BIOS I will hit my head against the fridge
[19:52] <OvenWerks> don't hurt the fridge...
[19:55]  * OvenWerks didn't know laptop mics could be disabled in bios
[19:58] <AppAraat[m]> Well, sacrifices have to be made.
[19:59] <AppAraat[m]> But luckily I don't see that option anywhere in the BIOS settings, so the fridge can rest assured.
[20:12] <AppAraat[m]> One other thing I can try is to download the UbuntuStudio 18.04 ISO and try this in a live environment....
[20:12] <OvenWerks> yes
[20:18] <Eickmeyer> The Ubuntu Studio Controls on the 18.04 ISO is *way* different.
[20:18] <Eickmeyer> Why not 20.04?
[20:18] <OvenWerks> he has ppa version
[20:19] <Eickmeyer> Yeah, but that requires manually adding the PPA during the live session, which will eat RAM.
[20:19] <OvenWerks> Ah that.
[20:36] <AppAraat[m]> well, I remember it also working without that PPA. And yeah, migration to 20.04 is planned.
[20:37] <Eickmeyer> The version of Controls on the 18.04 ISO only has a couple of checkboxes. It never controlled Jack.
[20:37] <Eickmeyer> Hence, it's not supprted without the backports PPA.
[20:51] <AppAraat[m]> Sure, but I mean I could make recording work even without `ubuntustudio-controls`
[20:58] <Wangdoodle> I need help troubleshooting why my sound quit working. Was using qjackctl and ardour to add a midi drum track and it worked. After saving and reopening, I have no sound output. Tried ubuntustudio-controls and same. Is it okay to ask about this here?
[21:10] <Wangdoodle> I can see the beat playing in the mixer but I don't hear it. That output works fine when Jack is disconnected.
[21:11] <Wangdoodle> running kubuntu 20 with the ubuntustudio-installer packages
[21:23] <Wangdoodle> when I load the file in ALSA mode, not using jack, there's also no sound. I can double click the Red Zepplin drumkit and click the image and it does the visual, the eq jumps, but no sound.
[21:36] <Wangdoodle> Other sessions work fine with the midi drums. Weird. Well, it isn't important. I'll just start a new session for this... but is this chat even working?
[21:37] <Eickmeyer> Wangdoodle: The chat is working, just nobody is available to help you.
[21:37] <Wangdoodle> ok, thanks
[21:37] <Eickmeyer> You can try #opensourcemusicians or #lau (Linux Audio Users).
[21:38] <Wangdoodle> Thanks, making a note. :D