[00:08] <kc2bez> Eickmeyer: It was likely installed on the system already but one of the remixes was having issues with LUKS without it. I didn't totally reinvent the wheel either, I followed debian a bit https://salsa.debian.org/live-team/calamares-settings-debian-packaging/-/blob/master/debian/control
[00:08] <Eickmeyer> Interesting.
[00:09] <kc2bez> If it really is an issue I can look at removing.
[00:09] <Eickmeyer> I'm going to roll with it for now and see what happens. I just fixed a bug I had previously fixed (love it when that happens) in the Studio configs, so we'll see what happens.
[00:10] <kc2bez> I didn't touch those (or at least I didn't intentionally).
[00:11] <kc2bez> Apologies for the trouble.
[00:12] <Eickmeyer> You didn't, the fix I had previously (blacklisting the file) didn't work.
[00:13] <Eickmeyer> So now I'm checking for if it exists.
 0.15 landed
 @tsimonq2 [0.15 landed], Fantastic work Simon
 Thanks :) you too!
 amazing! good/hard work!
 It's a team effort :)
 In the meantime, I have some prototype code at home which refactors the nightly
 Makes it about 6-10x faster and allows for different config files
 This puts me really close to starting Qt 6 nightlies
 And then we can build LXQt against it
 Then once there's an actual release of Qt 6, we can work with Debian Qt/KDE to get it in Debian
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[01:51] <Eickmeyer[m]> Hmmmm... Anybody notice that if you're using luks encryption that it asks for the password before Plymouth loads?
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[02:20] <guiverc> Eickmeyer[m], I assumed that (encryption key first) was to give less detail away (ie. plymouth/lubuntu info not yet seen) but I know nothing about it
[02:21] <Eickmeyer> guiverc: Yeah, the issue is that it doesn't give a prompt box and visual feedback (****) without Plymouth. I've actually had emails that people expect that.
[02:22] <guiverc> I can imagine end-users would like it...  I've opted (i guess) to see it as a security-feature :)
[02:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> Well, it's not really. Plymouth is part of initramd which is required to load prior to mounting anything.
[02:23] <guiverc> I didn't say it was a good security feature... it's less easily giving out details :)
 @Eickmeyer[m] [<Eickmeyer[m]> Hmmmm... Anybody notice that if you're using luks encryption that …], Yes, that is normal and expected. … Calamares encrypts /boot and the LUKS container is unlocked twice. … With Grub, where you have to enter the passphrase and later with a keyfile. … Currently, Calamares does not support FDE with an u
[04:59] <Eickmeyer> @aptghetto That's not good. I've been sent emails about that, people want that graphical prompt in Plymouth.
[05:00] <Eickmeyer> Anaconda (Fedora), YaST (OpenSUSE), and Ubiquity support it. This needs to be fixed.
[05:00] <Eickmeyer> I mean, it's not a complete deal breaker, but it's less than ideal.
 There is an upstream bug, but no one is working on it.
[05:05] <Eickmeyer> I just commented on it. https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1311#issuecomment-639260847
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 ^ expected
[12:17] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[12:18] <lotuspsychje> i have a little question about language-selector-gnome, seems like lubuntu has dropped this due gtk?
[12:19] <lotuspsychje> so is the user supposed to install his own language pack himself now
[12:21] <lotuspsychje> i fixxed things manually on a fresh installed lubuntu 20.04 with check-language-support -l nl and installing the packs
[16:44] <wxl> Eickmeyer: even though it's not super user friendly it *IS* the more secure option. to not have /boot encrypted is to have non-full disk encryption. 
[16:45] <Eickmeyer> wxl: I know, but I'm looking out for my users. Either way, looks like they're going to take action and allow it.
[16:47] <wxl> Eickmeyer: that's not what i read 
[16:47] <wxl> Eickmeyer: also i think looking out for users would mean looking out for their security first
[16:48] <Eickmeyer> wxl: Then why does every other installer allow it?
[16:48] <Eickmeyer> Ubiquity, Anaconda, YaST.... every one except Calamares.
[16:48] <wxl> Eickmeyer: because they don't consider security a priority
[16:49] <Eickmeyer> I disagree. I think an unencrypted /boot is completely fine. You're not going to have any sensitive files in there.
[16:50] <wxl> the keys are there, of course
[16:50] <Eickmeyer> Uh, no. The keys should be stored in RAM when the user enters it.
[16:51] <Eickmeyer> I've seriously had complaints about this.
[16:51] <wxl> not the password
[16:51] <wxl> start here https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1311#issuecomment-579741764
[16:51] <Eickmeyer> wxl: Read down, I've already commented.
[16:52] <wxl> i see that, though it doesn't necessarily directly resolve those particular concerns
[16:52] <Eickmeyer> Ok, then how can we implement a prompt? Grub won't do it, only Plymouth will.
[16:52] <wxl> even kkofler's comment after it refers to the issue i bring up
[16:53] <wxl> it's literally a question of choosing to actually do full disk encryption or choosing user friendliness and not encrypting /boot, which is a security risk
[16:53] <Eickmeyer> I have some very low opinions about kkofler. He's constantly being negative in #fedora-kde and is bitter at Redhat for removing KDE from RHEL. He's a very negative person, and I take everything he says with a grain of salt.
[16:54] <wxl> i understand your personal feelings about him and can relate, but he's not necessarily wrong in his assertions on this issue because of his lackings in social abilities :)
[16:54] <Eickmeyer> Also, that's if the EFI partition is /boot. EFI partition should always be /boot/efi. /boot should be a separate partition from EFI.
[16:55] <Eickmeyer> He didn't address a separate partition option.
[16:55] <Eickmeyer> Seems as though Chrysostomus seems to agree with me.
[16:56] <wxl> there's lots of people that agree with the idea
[16:56] <wxl> *i* agree with the idea
[16:56] <wxl> but implementing it without compromising security is the problem
[16:57] <Eickmeyer> This is a situation where I want user friendliness. My target user base isn't going to know what to do when they recieve no prompt for the encryption password.
[16:57] <wxl> in general, compromising a little security isn't a terrible problem but when you're making someone think they're securing their disk but they're really not getting that, it's a problem
[16:57] <Eickmeyer> And they'll be further confused when they enter it and don't recieve (***) when they type.
[16:58] <wxl> that's, honestly, the least of the issues
[16:58] <wxl> the biggest issue is for non-us keyboard users
[16:59] <Eickmeyer> Probably, but I guarantee I'll get complaints in October if this happens. People going to Ubuntu Studio are looking for user friendlines.
[16:59] <wxl> https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1203
[16:59] <Eickmeyer> And that's a problem that Plymouth solves.
[16:59] <wxl> it's really nothing a manual can't resolve
[17:00] <wxl> assuming you don't encrypt /boot, it all works fine
[17:01] <wxl> but that also makes "full disk encryption" a lie
[17:01] <wxl> it honestly requires a caveat
[17:01] <Eickmeyer> Well, technically then, one cannot do "full disk encryption" with UEFI then because the /boot/efi partition must be unencrypted to load the .efi file.
[17:02] <wxl> i'm the type of person that likes full disk encryption and when i learned all this, it made me rather uncomfortable to know that i actually never had it
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> I'm OK with partial disk encryption. So long as the sensitive files are encrypted, it's good.
[17:02] <wxl> *all* of your users are not going to want to encrypt their disk
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> Right, but I want to avoid the angry "You broke it" emails.
[17:03] <wxl> and the ones that do may not actually want what you're advocating for
[17:04] <Eickmeyer> I've already had emails unhappy about the plymouth theme we included in 20.04 since it doesn't properly give a box for the masked password.
[17:04] <Eickmeyer> I can't imagine what's going to happen when there's not even a prompt.
[17:04] <wxl> you can make some of the people happy some of the time but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time
[17:05] <Eickmeyer> I know, I know, but I've been all about improving UX ever since I joined Ubuntu Studio.
[17:05] <Eickmeyer> From that perspective, this is a regression.
[17:06] <wxl> and from mine, it's an improvement
[17:06] <wxl> and again, i'm prone to encrypt my disk
[17:06] <Eickmeyer> Either way, I might chalk it up to "those wanting to encrypt their disk won't care about the UX as much".
[17:06] <wxl> you may want to ask for second opinions from your users that actually have interest in encryption
[17:07] <wxl> i don't think that would be an unreasonable assumption
[17:07] <wxl> they care (i care) but if security is a priority, there you go
[17:08] <Eickmeyer> Right, but I think I'd still like the option. We'll see what happens with my comment, it seems to have restarted the conversation.
[17:11] <wxl> i think it would be nice if they offered the option to not encrypt /boot. it seems relatively simple. i still wouldn't use it, personally, 
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[17:36] <tsimonq2> Launching a nightly after deploying that.
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[17:36] <tsimonq2> Oh...
[17:36] <tsimonq2> Well...
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[17:37] <tsimonq2> mmm, that makes sense...
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 It does?
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[17:44] <tsimonq2> Working on it.
 I trust you.
[17:53] <tsimonq2> OHHHHHHHHHHHH
[17:53] <tsimonq2> One line messup breaks the entire thing.
[17:53] <tsimonq2> Nice.
[17:54] <tsimonq2> There we go, I'll push this changeset then.
[17:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCId052943e6dce: Yo dawg, I heard you like dict values, so I made your dict value a dict value.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCId052943e6dce
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[17:57] <tsimonq2> ;)
 Thanks dawg ;)
[17:57] <tsimonq2> XD
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[18:36] <tsimonq2> That should be fixed now.
[18:36] <tsimonq2> Once I fix this timer logic, I'll kick off a nightly.
[18:36] <tsimonq2> I'm almost there, fwiw.
[18:45] <tsimonq2> It's off by a little more than a second but that's about the closest I can get for now.
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[18:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_nm-tray ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_nm-tray/291/
[18:48] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_libsysstat ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_libsysstat/46/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-archiver ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-archiver/75/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_nm-tray ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_nm-tray/291/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_nm-tray ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_nm-tray/45/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_libsysstat ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_libsysstat/46/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_compton-conf ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_compton-conf/45/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-policykit ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-policykit/288/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_compton-conf ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_compton-conf/297/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-openssh-askpass ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-openssh-askpass/46/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_compton-conf ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_compton-conf/297/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-policykit ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-policykit/46/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-archiver ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-archiver/75/
[18:49] <tsimonq2> That's me.
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/68/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-runner ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-runner/298/
[18:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-runner ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-runner/298/
[18:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_sddm FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_sddm/48/
[18:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_sddm FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_sddm/48/
[18:51] <tsimonq2> Ooo, fun one.
[18:51] <tsimonq2> Here...
[18:53] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCI44d9368d3fff: Don't override cascade if it already exists.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCI44d9368d3fff
[18:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCIMETADATA4bb53fa7cfea: Manually override cascade for SDDM.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCIMETADATA4bb53fa7cfea
[18:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCIMETADATA51dc85a9742d: Add ubuntu/focal to the default merger cascade.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCIMETADATA51dc85a9742d
[18:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] jobgenerator just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/jobgenerator/624/
[18:55] <Eickmeyer> tsimonq2 forgot a simicolon or did a 20 GOTO 20.
[18:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCI5b70b9b93df0: Add cascade to the optional fields so if we manually override it there isn't a…] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCI5b70b9b93df0
[18:56] <tsimonq2> hahahahahaha
[18:56] <tsimonq2> No, actually I forgot to update the field list.
[18:56] <Eickmeyer> Ohhhhh... XD
[18:56] <tsimonq2> Now it should be fine.
[18:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] jobgenerator just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/jobgenerator/625/
[18:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_libfm-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libfm-qt/538/
[18:58] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_libfm-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libfm-qt/539/
[18:58] <tsimonq2> ^ that is a valid failure.
[18:58] <tsimonq2> Unfortunately my time today is limited.
[18:58] <tsimonq2> However, before I go I'll paste a CI report in here.
[19:08] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/46/
[19:08] <tsimonq2> not this again
[19:08] <tsimonq2> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[19:09] <tsimonq2> makes sense
[19:14] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/295/
[19:15] <tsimonq2> Total jobs failing: 16
[19:15] <tsimonq2> Total packages failing: 5
[19:15] <tsimonq2> Packages which are failing: calamares sddm libfm-qt lxqt-powermanagement qterminal 
[19:15] <tsimonq2> SDDM is just failing because of Lintian problems.
[19:15] <tsimonq2> (Well, it's Unstable.)
[19:16] <tsimonq2> All of the rest are actual failures.
[19:16] <tsimonq2> https://ci.lubuntu.me/ <-- take a look and fix packages if you have time.
 Why did cala start failing?
[19:17] <tsimonq2> I think it's a transient failure.
[19:18] <tsimonq2> I'll paste the report here again when I get back from work. The nightly should be done by then.
 I will keep my eyes open.
[19:18] <tsimonq2> merger_libfm-qt is definitely some fun low-hanging fruit. I enabled merges from ubuntu/focal -> ubuntu/groovy -> etc.
[19:18] <tsimonq2> Just in case we need to do SRUs.
[19:19] <tsimonq2> At some point in the next several days I'll be making a Backports branch for Focal.
 Cool
[19:20] <tsimonq2> I *think* the way I'm going to do that is ubuntu/focal -> ubuntu/groovy -> backports/focal -> ci/stable -> ci/unstable.
[19:20] <tsimonq2> Actually, hold on, it's a one line change and I can have CI create it for me.
[19:21] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rCIMETADATAf68e2499b8f3: Add the backports/focal branch.] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rCIMETADATAf68e2499b8f3
[19:21] <tsimonq2> There.
[19:22] <tsimonq2> There's a solid chance we'll see quite a few duplicate builds.
[19:22] <tsimonq2> Bad builds could get spammy.
[19:22] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_libfm-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libfm-qt/540/
[19:24] <tsimonq2> And nice, I see backports/focal now.
[19:24] <tsimonq2> That was easy.
 nice
[19:28] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/46/
 I don't get what this mean : …  + git merge --ff-only ubuntu/focal … fatal: Not possible to fast-forward, aborting. … Build step 'Execute shell' marked build as failure
 in https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libfm-qt/539/console
[19:32] <tsimonq2> Basically what it's saying is, when you're on the ubuntu/groovy branch, you can't merge ubuntu/focal into ubuntu/groovy using the fast-forward merge strategy.
[19:33] <tsimonq2> This means it needs to be done manually.
[19:33] <tsimonq2> I don't trust CI to do it for itself, so when a merger job fails we need to fix that ourselves.
[19:33] <tsimonq2> Locally you can do that but don't specify --ff-only.
[19:33] <tsimonq2> Then Git can pick whatever merge strategy it thinks is suitable.
 i didn't knew there existed different merge strategies
[19:34] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/295/
[19:35] <tsimonq2> https://git-scm.com/docs/git-merge#_fast_forward_merge and on
[19:35] <tsimonq2> Yeah, it's interesting.
[19:35] <tsimonq2> Git can do all kinds of wonderful things.
 tl;Dr git merge will tell you where the merge errors are.
[19:37] <tsimonq2> Right.
[19:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/46/
 interesting
[19:44] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/295/
[19:44] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools ABORTED: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools/261/
[20:04] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/46/
[20:05] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/295/
[20:20] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_qterminal FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_qterminal/67/
[20:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/295/
[20:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_qterminal FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_qterminal/68/
[20:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/46/
[20:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_qterminal FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_qterminal/69/