[01:44] I guess we really need to packagr morph as click so that we can update it faster and won't rely on OTAs [01:52] Where do application logs go again? [01:53] I've got a crashing application and I don't know why. KeePit is eating dirt as soon as I try to open a DB [02:00] Ok, where do I go to ask about where application logs go? [02:00] download Logviewer, it's a great app. … orherwise, logs are in `.cache/upstart` [02:00] Oh, so cool. Thank you! [02:00] i have the attention span of a flea, you'll have to excuse the fact this is probably the third time I've asked this, and only the first time I stuck around long enough to get an answer [02:02] @Javacookies [I guess we really need to packagr morph as click so that we can update it faster …], if it was that simple, it'd be done already [02:02] the app portion can be compiled as a click already [02:03] probally all the webapp stuff that might be a problem [02:04] @dohbee [if it was that simple, it'd be done already], I didn't say it's simple but it might be the ideal way to go 😄 [02:12] @Javacookies [I didn't say it's simple but it might be the ideal way to go 😄], well ideal would be something completely different from clicks, but alas [02:25] Hallo everyone, I would like to do a try installing ubports on Asus ZenFone max Pro m2. Does anyone know if there is a live version or some practice I can do so to not brick the phone and just testing if it works on it without affecting permanently it? Thanks in advance for your replies [03:05] (Photo, 356x788) https://irc.ubports.com/C0A0m8Br.png .. [03:48] @Dazen5 [Hallo everyone, I would like to do a try installing ubports on Asus ZenFone max …], https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io is the supported list of devices. If yours is not listed then porting is your only option. I don't know of any way to live test. [03:55] When will make port UBPorts for Xiaomi Redmi Note 8T (willow)? This device have very similar hardware with Redmi Note 7 and Mi A3 [03:56] Also I want dualboot Android and Ubuntu Touch on this phone [03:57] I used UBPorts on my Xiaomi Redmi 4X (santoni), I like this OS [04:18] anyone knows the width of M10 or Nexus 7 in units.gu? [05:23] @reliable1 [When will make port UBPorts for Xiaomi Redmi Note 8T (willow)? This device have …], As with all other devices. A port will happen if someone who owns that device creates one. There is no porting service or schedule for ports. [05:23] The only 'exception' are open source devices like the pinephone. [06:01] fractalzero was added by: fractalzero [07:19] julijan1974 was added by: julijan1974 [07:30] @Javacookies [anyone knows the width of M10 or Nexus 7 in units.gu?], What is that? [07:32] @Stereofont [What is that?], grid units which is used in UT for dimensions … I was just checking the OSK and looks like the pinephone is identified as tablet because its width when in landscape is more than units.gu(90) [07:32] that logic really needs to be updated to make it more smart 😅 [07:33] Haha phablet [07:34] @Stereofont [Haha phablet], What happened to them? [07:46] @amyosx [What happened to them?], Still plenty two hand phones around [08:46] Gogi was added by: Gogi [09:19] Xperia x [09:20] ...howto install Libertine on it? [09:21] Whe I try to create the container it doesn't happen somehow..? [09:28] @phovi [...howto install Libertine on it?], https://forums.ubports.com/topic/3229/sony-xperia-x-suzu-f5121-f5122 … As the list says: … `Missing: … - Video recording … - Libertine` [09:28] So it's not possible to use libertine with the device yet. [09:48] Hiii [09:48] (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/5YS8N5l9.webp [09:49] Why it is not possible to install Ubuntu touch just like custom rom [09:49] We have to run Ubuntu touch only as another os [09:49] Custom rom == just android os … Ubuntu touch != android os … ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [09:50] @jedi2light [Custom rom == just android os … Ubuntu touch != android os … ¯\_(ツ)_/¯], Means Ubuntu is not Equals to android os [09:51] @heatHaL [Means Ubuntu is not Equals to android os], No of course not [09:53] @heatHaL [Means Ubuntu is not Equals to android os], That's what it's all about. [10:04] In other words, you can't install it like an Android ROM because it isn't Android [10:28] I want to install UBports on my Nexus 5 but I don't want to use the UBports installer, I just want to flash an image [10:28] where can I find the image? [10:32] Codename? [10:33] If you search UBPorts installer configs you can go through the steps manually [10:36] amyosx: where are the UBports installer configs? [11:01] I managed to find a github project which unfortunately isn't linked to from the ubports website, and I found this file: https://github.com/ubports/installer-configs/blob/master/v1/hammerhead.json [11:01] Toni was added by: Toni [11:01] however, the only files there are "recovery-hammerhead.img" and "boot-hammerhead.img" [11:01] @heatHaL [Means Ubuntu is not Equals to android os], Ubuntu Touch is not an AOSP. It’s an entire and complete independent OS [11:02] there seems to be no image for installing [11:02] amyosx? [11:11] @rah [there seems to be no image for installing], We do not have a single image. The installer downloads multiple files from our syste image server and combines them together. You might have a hard time doing that yourself [11:12] Flohack: I don't mind having a hard time [11:12] how can I determine which files I need? [11:13] looking through https://cdimage.ubports.com/ there isn't anything obvious [11:13] We have also the old cmdline line tool ubuntu-device-flash --server=http://system-image.ubports.com touch --device=turbo --channel=ubports-touch/16.04/devel [11:13] @rah [looking through https://cdimage.ubports.com/ there isn't anything obvious], Yes I told you you might have a hard time ^^ [11:13] You would need to replace turbo with your device name [11:14] Well if I would know this well I could tell you instantly. But alas, the file names are kinda unique IDs, and they are listed in the json files. [11:14] Flohack: I'd like to use just fastboot to install an image [11:14] @rah [Flohack: I'd like to use just fastboot to install an image], Thats not possible, I am sorry [11:15] why is it not possible? [11:15] I mean if you can make yourself an offline image then its possible [11:15] what mechanism does the installer use? [11:15] Well kinda. Normally we do not format/overwrite /data so the installer just pushes stuff with adb push [11:16] O_o [11:16] You need to flash boot and recovery with fastboot, then boot into recovery and push the remaining stuff [11:16] you install UBports using adb push? [11:16] @rah [you install UBports using adb push?], Yes [11:16] In more detail, you push the rootfs, then mount it tem,porarily and inject the device-dependent system image [11:16] how do you install UBports on a device that doesn't have adb, like a pinephone? [11:17] s/how do you/how does the installer/ [11:18] @rah [how do you install UBports on a device that doesn't have adb, like a pinephone?], pinephone is different, you basically flash the sdcard with a bootable image. Or, somehow you can also install it to the emmc but idk how this works [11:18] We do not have an installer yet for the pinephone [11:18] Its all manual [11:18] how is the bootable image created? [11:18] YOu ask in a general group, you will better join the developers group to ask such questions ;) [11:19] there are developers hedre [11:19] here [11:19] is it a bot can transfer from IRC channel? [11:20] @rah [there are developers hedre], Yes but we do not have lengthy developer discussions here that no one else understands and they are just boring. We are nearly 3000 people here. Its a generic meeting place, and then off you go to specific topics if needed [11:20] Plz join https://t.me/ubports_devel for that questions [11:20] I'm not going to use Telegram [11:21] Well you dont want to use our installer, you dont want to join our groups, I cant help you in this case. Sources for ubuntu device flash are here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/goget-ubuntu-touch/trunk/view/head:/ubuntu-device-flash/touch.go [11:21] You might find what you need there or also not [11:22] thanks for your help [11:27] rah, you may want to look at https://gitlab.com/ubports/core/rootfs-builder-debos/-/blob/master/pinephone-prebuilt.yaml [11:29] NotKit: thanks but this all just makes me feel bad [11:31] why is UBports installed in this odd piecemeal way rather than just producing an image that can be flashed using fastboot or heimdall or whatever? [11:31] we don't have fastboot or heimdall on PinePhone, it just generated raw image [11:31] [Edit] we don't have fastboot or heimdall on PinePhone, it just generates raw image [11:33] NotKit: I don't mean for the pinephone, I mean for those devices that use fastboot or heimdall [11:33] the installation system for those devices predates the pinephone [11:34] May be to prevent typos that brick devices. [11:35] Follpvosten: that doesn't make sense; there's no reason that installing using an image has to be any more or less sensitive to typos that installing using the piecemeal way [11:36] @rah [Follpvosten: that doesn't make sense; there's no reason that installing using an …], You can improve it of course. Currently its like that, its Canonical heritage and was not our design choice [11:36] if anything, installing using an image would be safer; there are fewer steps to lower change of a typo [11:36] *chance [11:36] But we are a tiny group of devs, and so far that was a non-issue for us [11:36] The installer automates all that in a safe way, our users are happy, and its available on all platforms [11:37] the installer is not safe [11:37] that's why I won't use it [11:37] I tried it once before and it (1) asked me for my password and (2) printed that password in cleartext on the fucking terminal [11:38] @rah [the installer is not safe], Well thats a claim that a) you must proof b) you can make any PRs that improve it. If you blame us then you also can start contributing today [11:38] If you dont trust yourself then I cant help you ;) [11:38] I disagree that it's something I must prove [11:38] rah, tbh you can study installer steps and replicate that [11:39] NotKit: I know what I can do, I was asking why I have to [11:39] installer was meant as a tool to hide all the complexity behind nice UI [11:40] Why should we though if it works for us? [11:40] @rah [I tried it once before and it (1) asked me for my password and (2) printed that …], Masking the password print should not be an issue. The sudo is needed due to many users having issues with running adb and fastboot as ordinary users [11:40] I kinda agree with rah point that having plain fastboot-flashable images will be easier for some people, but somebody needs to do it [11:42] (and there would have to be a CI job for every device every release to generate those images, so it's not a simple PR) [11:42] Flohack: that doesn't make sense; there's no reason to print the password on the terminal in cleartext or masked [11:42] Any bugs or issues for the installer plz post here: https://github.com/ubports/ubports-installer/issues [11:42] @rah [Flohack: that doesn't make sense; there's no reason to print the password on the …], Yeah we can remove it. PR it please [11:43] Flohack: I'm not going to invest in this [11:43] Well, if you just come to a place to complain about a product rather than helping for your usecase, you kind of look like a jerk. [11:43] @rah [Flohack: I'm not going to invest in this], Then I cant help you. Its a community thing. If you critize us for what we are doing but wont help to fix it, it will stay forever like this [11:44] Also, Telegram is the wrong place to do bug reports. I think that's a no brainer. [11:44] We are not a company, everybody works in his free time and we are mostly no professionals. So, we can use any help we can get [11:44] We have 2.5 employees only [11:45] Flohack: the bug is not the password handling, the bug is having a UBports-specific installer program rather than generating images [11:45] @rah [Flohack: the bug is not the password handling, the bug is having a UBports-speci …], I told you, we are open for improvements. But we currently do not see this as urgent problem, so nobody will pick it up. If you think its urgent, help us fixing it [11:47] "Hey I have an itch!" … "Scratch it" … "No, you scratch it!" [11:48] lol [11:52] there are too many big red flags for me to seriously invest in UBports [11:53] for example: I can't find any information whatsoever on the website about the source code to UBports [11:53] really that's the biggest thing [11:55] that a community-run project would obscure access to the main community resource seems completely insane to me [11:55] @rah [for example: I can't find any information whatsoever on the website about the so …], If you can't you are not good at searching. [11:55] the website reads like some corporation's brochure website [11:56] libremax: I'm happy to be proved wrong [11:56] libremax: can you show me where on http://ubports.com there is information about the UBports source code? [11:56] rah: Go to contribute, then to core development. [11:56] @rah [for example: I can't find any information whatsoever on the website about the so …], Ubports is the community not the os [11:57] It's not that hard. [11:57] There's a "where to find us" section at the bottom and there's a link to the source code. [11:57] UT is not android. Get over it [11:57] I stand corrected [11:57] @rah [there are too many big red flags for me to seriously invest in UBports], sorry to tell you but you already invested in it since you asked here 😝 [11:58] however, that doesn't change my view [11:58] information about the source code should be available up front [11:59] access to the source code is not, in my world view, tied to "contributing" [12:00] accessing the source code does not imply contributing [12:00] It's all on github and gitlab. There isn't a massive corporation paying for all this with thousands of people to work on it [12:01] Bitching about your petty trifles is not helpful to anyone, including you [12:01] that fact that the UBports website presents information about the source code in a way that assuming accessing the source code implies contributing is a big red flag [12:01] I agree that GitHub/GitLab links should be more visible on the website, but that's an overlook than obsucring it [12:01] @rah [that fact that the UBports website presents information about the source code in …], Then feel free to not contribute and leave [12:02] dohbee: unfortunately the github and gitlab projects are not easily accessible, are not presented up front [12:02] There's no need for your rudeness and pedantry [12:03] dohbee: the conversation here come to the subject of contributing and I layed out the reasons why I am not willing to do that [12:03] dohbee: I'm not being rude, I'm just expressing my position [12:03] Source for what? UT is not android. It's not a single repo. [12:03] @rah [information about the source code should be available up front], That's not an nodejs framework to be just source code, it is much more complicated. If you type "repo sync" (in halium) you sync hundreds of repos. [12:03] In Ubuntu touch its the same [12:04] If it would be just one repo that would be complete mess [12:04] @dohbee [Source for what? UT is not android. It's not a single repo.], + [12:05] It is not built in that way. There are hundreds of repos, and we don't host source for things that are in upstream Ubuntu archive [12:07] @rah [dohbee: the conversation here come to the subject of contributing and I layed ou …], Contribution isn't limited to source code. You've already stated your position. Finding other things to just pettily complain about in here is not helpful nor kind [12:07] @rah [dohbee: I'm not being rude, I'm just expressing my position], 450 repositories on Github alone. How can we make this more accessible than just saying, start getting involved, then you will see. Yes documentation is bad in some corners, but its a whole distribution that is being maintained by a handful of people. We are not obscuring [12:07] anything [12:08] Flohack: to start with, you could provide this link: https://github.com/ubports [12:09] There's less than 10 people who took over the work of hundreds, and you're expecting some corporate project [12:10] @rah [Flohack: to start with, you could provide this link: https://github.com/ubports], Imagine having problem with how website is created when it comes to os [12:10] rah, your expectations are a little off. [12:11] I agree we do not show our Github/Gitlab pages properly on the website. We shall fix that. [12:12] If you follow the website flow "Join us" -> "core development" the GitHub link is right at the "Where to find us" section [12:13] And i didn't even know that page existed. [12:13] yes, but it's a bit non-trivial nonetheless, having it same section as social media could be helpful [12:13] I wrote to the website team [12:13] *facepalm* [12:13] he has valid points, it's just his approach is off 😅 [12:14] @Javacookies [he has valid points, it's just his approach is off 😅], +1 [12:14] treating access to the project's source code in the same way as access to the project's twitter feed is, again, a big red flag [12:15] Well, you're not specifically saying what would be better, you're just stating what you would not do. That's not helping. [12:16] @rah [treating access to the project's source code in the same way as access to the pr …], the things you are saying as red flags are bugs/issue which can be fixed and it would have saves us a lot of times if you just tell them straightforward instead of telling us like everything that's wrong were intentional [12:16] @rah [treating access to the project's source code in the same way as access to the pr …], [Edit] the things you are saying as red flags are bugs/issue which can be fixed and it would have saved us a lot of time if you just tell them straightforward instead of telling us like everything that's wrong were intentional [12:17] like where can I file bugs on the site, the installer,etc. [12:17] Javacookies: the website was created with intention [12:17] You're not getting it. We didn't make the website hard to use *for you* intentionally [12:18] @rah [Javacookies: the website was created with intention], doesn't mean it's perfectly done [12:18] Javacookies: it's clear that the website was intended to appeal to "users" who just want things to look nice and be easy [12:18] Javacookies: which is to say, the source code was intentionally obscured [12:18] fredldotme: it seems to me that access to the source code *was* intentionally obscured [12:18] anyway, let's not waste anymore time … he's told his concerns and let's just let him think/do what he wants 😅 [12:18] No it was not, and differentiation between "website for users" and reality is completely wrong. [12:19] FFS, it is just a website [12:21] It is structured in a certain way, follows a certain flow. It's just that you don't like the way it is structured right now and, again, instead of proposing a real solution you're just saying "no" to proposals. [12:22] So rah, you're basically saying "if your website doesn't have a 'fork me on github' button, it's a red flag" [12:23] Follpvosten: lol, no those horrid things are themselves a red flag [12:23] @rah [Follpvosten: lol, no those horrid things are themselves a red flag], What would be better then? Tell us, we have time. [12:25] Follpvosten: the problem is not so much some specific issues on the website, the problem is the difference in values and worldview that gave rise to the website issues, the lack of images, the poor installer security, etc., etc. [12:26] So you basically came here to complain about our "values" (whatever you mean by that)? Instead of helping? [12:26] rah: I know, but that's what you sound like. What you say is received as unnecessary nitpicking by the other people here, probably in part because you're just complaining instead of creating a bug report. [12:26] I came here to try and install UBports without the installer [12:26] Yeah, well, good luck then. Have fun finding a way and not propose a solution for others to use as well. [12:27] If you insist on not helping out. [12:27] I just got my pinephone shipping notification. I'm super excited to try ubuntu touch. Thank you guys for all your hard work on it. [12:31] @rah [Follpvosten: the problem is not so much some specific issues on the website, the …], The biggest problem that triggers me always to the ceiling is that in Open Source communities there is constantly concerns about how wrong the world is. Everything must be done different, its political, its with intention to lock out ones freedoms e [12:31] tc. Like everybody is evil. That creates friction, hatred and uneffectiveness. No wonder that FOSS things are forked way more than there is sand on the beach. Well then, lets everyone have their own OS instead of creating one for all [12:31] NikhilNkk was added by: NikhilNkk [12:33] @Flohack [The biggest problem that triggers me always to the ceiling is that in Open Sourc …], People living in their own little bubble [12:33] Yes then plz stay there and dont upset all the others [12:34] Agreed [12:50] Ditto ^^ [12:50] how hard would it be to change how the lock screen works to allow there to be a delay before you need to put your password in? I am thinking for instance that you could set a delay of 15 minutes so you wouldn't have to put your password in all the time. [12:57] Ka1z3n was added by: Ka1z3n [12:59] Quite, and kind of defeats the purpose [13:02] I disagree there is also an option for now password at all so why not have a delay for reprompt and at least have some sort of password set. After all the way that you interact with a phone is very different than a desktop. you are not constantly locking and unlocking you screen within a few minutes of each other on a desktop or laptop. Ho [13:02] wever this is very common on a phone. So really not everytime you click the power button do you intend to "lock" sometimes you just want the screen off to conserve power. [13:17] I figure the website is not updated so how many promote devices are there? [13:20] Well, since a handful of people (and a growing community) took over from Canonical I have seen so much progress, got a lot of help and learned a lot. I've even managed to contribute a (very) wee bit. And of course I've been able to use a great OS and apps on my phone. … Somethings are harder than others to find out about and other peo [13:20] ple's priorities might not always match mine but I've never felt the need to sound off. A polite question usually gets a clearly explained response even although I'm not a developer or very knowledgeable so my queries or inability to understand the response must sometimes be a bit exasperating. Sad to see a rather negative in places thread but I t [13:20] hought it seemed a good opportunity to give a thumbs up for all the hard work everyone contributes. [13:21] @Ka1z3n [I figure the website is not updated so how many promote devices are there?], Plz see https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/ [13:22] @MenmuirMark [Well, since a handful of people (and a growing community) took over from Canonic …], 👍 [13:25] @Flohack [Plz see https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/], As I said I need to a list of a promoted devices and im not sure these are all … Since pine64 isn't there … https://ubports.com/devices/promoted-devices [13:32] @Ka1z3n [As I said I need to a list of a promoted devices and im not sure these are all … S …], Well Pine64 is a bit special. So add that one and you are good. By the way, the devices page lists a lot of community devices, the list of "core devices" did not change in the last 3 years [13:33] Hello guys I was asking abou port for Nokia 6.1 plus is anyone have it [13:35] Is it the only special one? Are there other devices that aren't there? [13:53] nihilazo was added by: nihilazo [13:54] hello, can libhandy applications run on ubports? Do I have to target ubuntu touch specifically if I want apps to run on it? [13:57] possibly, but you'll have to package all of it inside your click package [13:57] (libhandy + GTK) [13:58] don't think anyone tried before [13:59] Royal_Turd was added by: Royal_Turd [14:03] @nihilazo [hello, can libhandy applications run on ubports? Do I have to target ubuntu touc …], currently, unfortunately, no and yes [14:04] GTK3+ + libhandy should be possible on PinePhone with Wayland, but someone needs to work on that [14:04] [Edit] GTK+3 and libhandy should be possible on PinePhone with Wayland, but someone needs to work on that [14:05] IIRC, mir can display GTK natively but I'm not sure which version and how well they work [14:05] GTK version in xenial is too outdated for libhandy [14:06] ah ok [14:18]