=== xu-help45w is now known as Somdatta
=== brainwash_ is now known as brainwash
CurlyWow!  This channel is so quiet.03:22
CurlyWhatever happened to the:   Linux babe?   Has she been here?   She was funny.03:25
CurlyDay changed to 13 Jun 202006:34
CurlyDoes anyone remember the year 2,000    there was the hype about when a computer turned to the year 2,000 it would not work and all kinds of kaos would take place.06:36
CurlyIt was headline news.06:36
CurlyAnyone can set the computer time to any date.06:37
CurlyWhat would happen if the computer runs out of digits?   The year  pi  3.1415906:39
CurlyAngular velocity is  6.28    that is   2 x pi06:41
bodiccea_I am thinking about upgrading to 20.04 (from 19.10), but I have a concern about snaps. Will such upgrade imply some snaps will be on my system ? Out of question for me to have this kind of stuff on my machine.06:47
CurlyGreetings Bodicea_   Nice to see you again.06:49
CurlyBodiccea_ upgrading I don't know. It all depends upon your hardware and what you plan on doing with that Linux box.06:50
CurlyIf it works, don't fix it.06:51
diogenes_bodiccea_, you can check what's incuded into 20.04 right here: https://distrotest.net/Xubuntu06:51
CurlyTo me  18.04   is just fine and it is a STABLE distro. Keep with what is stable.06:52
CurlyI am using the LTS version.06:52
CurlyLong Term Support.06:53
bodiccea_Curly, this is a "standard" desktop PC. The link you gave gives the packages list, not the packaging system. I am asking about packaging system only (dpkg vs snap)06:53
CurlyOh! I am running the Server version right now.06:54
CurlyYou can always modify your desktop to a Server.06:55
CurlyIf you do   dpkg use the  pipe   |  less    command.06:56
bodiccea_Said a different way: I do not not want snap packaging on my PC. As I will still need to upgrade my system, and if snap becomes the default packaging system in all Ubuntus from 20.04, I will have no choice than going to another distro, unfortunately.06:57
CurlyBodiccea_ Is this your installation for a professional business or a private install?06:59
bodiccea_Curly, I don't understand what is the difference for snaps, but to answer you: private.07:00
CurlyI see.07:01
CurlyWell! Let me cogitate on this.   Snaps   <-------<   Sounds like a cracker.  :)07:01
CurlyFrom what I am reading,   Snaps is a   .deb   Debian or UNICES.07:04
CurlySnaps-which have the ".snap" extension-are more similar to containers. Applications in Snaps are self-contained, include all the libraries they need to function, and are sandboxed. They'll install to their own directory and they won't interfere with the rest of your system.07:04
bodiccea_exact, this is what i *do not* want.07:04
CurlyYour last statement was ambiguous.   You "want interference with the rest of your system?07:08
bodiccea_No, I don't want hundreds of duplicated libraries. I call this bloatware :)07:09
CurlyHey!  I am on the same page.   Usless crap on the hard drive is garbage.07:09
bodiccea_You said you are running 18.04, do you have any issue with "interferences" ?07:09
CurlyInterferrence from what?07:10
CurlyMy system runs like a top.07:10
bodiccea_because you don't use snaps :)07:10
CurlyI don't need it.07:10
CurlyI keep things simple.07:10
bodiccea_exact. Nor me.07:10
CurlyThe more crap you put on your computer, the more things you have to be concerned about.07:11
bodiccea_So I come back to my first question: Will upg to 20.04 imply snaps will be default packaging system instead of debian (.deb) one ?07:11
CurlyHomey don't play that    :)     ;)07:11
CurlyFrom my personal experience, Debian is the closest thing to a bonafide UNIX kernel.07:12
CurlyActually,   BSD is closest. I have used both. I like them.07:13
CurlyBSD has a whole different set of commands.07:13
CurlyHowtogeek is one of my favorite websites.07:16
Unit193Curly: ...You're really not answering the question here, if you don't know that's fine too.07:16
Unit193bodiccea_: Some upgrades have gotten the "snap store" or so I've read, rather than the normal software center.  lxd and chromium are also snaps, but generally speaking Xubuntu is still usable without snapd.07:17
bodiccea_In fact, as it is not clear for me, I am starting to look at Mint (which refuses snap packaging distro), and Debian. They may be others.07:17
CurlyI am studying up on this and I found some interesting sites.07:18
Unit193Didn't know that about Mint, but if it is a concern to you and Xubuntu is no longer a fit, I'd say go with Debian.  But I am biased, you should do your own evaluation.07:19
CurlyWhat is interesting is that SNAP is not only a Linux thing:   https://www.snapppackaging.com/index07:19
CurlyThat is funny.07:19
CurlyI didn't know there was a 20.04 version. http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/snap-vs-deb-package07:25
CurlyYes I did. I didn't like it. Too many problems.07:26
CurlyI burned the DVD disk and threw it out.07:27
CurlyNot on fire. Burn like digital burn.07:27
bodiccea_I was thinking Mint, as it is derived from Debian/Ubuntu. Without snaps :) Less changes for me. Debian, I will ask my local LUG, some are using it as desktop.07:28
CurlyPyromaniac   burning disks.  :)07:28
Unit193Curly: You seem to be rambling a bit, mind toning that down?07:29
CurlyBodiccea_ if your version is working OK, why invest in time looking for something else? I don't understand.07:29
bodiccea_Curly, because non LTS versions have 9 months support only.07:31
Unit193I mean that's kind of the point, LTSes get 3 years, typical releases basically are only supported until the next release.07:34
CurlyI will assure you that your LTS version runs just fine and if you know about the expression:  "Guilding the Lilly." It seems that you want an aircastle. Which is a space in the clouds. By that time, perhaps a newer kernel will be present. :)07:34
CurlyEven if a newer kenel were to be, this now Xubuntu will be around for a long time to come.07:36
CurlyLots of programmers and gurus are moving to Xubuntu rather than the Linux daemon. It is all Lunux in the long run.07:37
CurlyFrom what I have learned and I know programmers who work for Microsoft, Microsoft is plagiarizing source code from Linux source code.07:41
CurlyLinux is open source. Microsoft is compiled and closed source code.07:43
bodiccea_What is the point in discussion ?07:44
bodiccea_Well, I think I made my decision. What I will do: upg to 20.04. If I see any snap, switch to Mint. Debian will be too difficult for "proprietary" stuff (audio/video codecs, drivers, etc...). And release cycle is too slow for me.07:47
CurlyDebian is a great choice. By the way I do   forensic data recovery.    The data software is Debian. I was surprised to find that out.07:50
bodiccea_With a 2 years release cycle, I don't like it very much.07:51
bodiccea_I mean for desktop.07:51
bodiccea_And still the issue with needed proprietary stuff. I want to listen Music/watch videos out of the box :) And use nvidia driver out of the box for example.07:53
CurlyDon't worry about the 2 years.  What you are working on right now is paramount. As you stated, your installation is a home based install.07:53
CurlyHave you installed   VLC  Media Player?07:53
bodiccea_I don't on my server (a Beaglebone Black), which runs Debian. I do for desktop.07:54
CurlyVLC if you do the homework is a Video Server and much more. Check it out.07:54
bodiccea_I have VLC.07:55
CurlyVLC means   video  LAN   Local Area Network.07:55
CurlyIt is a free video software but more than that, it works great and it is free.07:56
bodiccea_why do you say what everybody knows? And VLC is common name for (former) VideoLan Client.07:58
bodiccea_Well, I must quit, starting 20.04 upgrade.07:59
CurlyNever quit!  Be  steadfast.08:07
bodiccea_Oh, no more supported in 20.04 (beside others): emacs, nmap, gsfonts. What is that ? Where is Ubuntu going ?09:03
brainwash!info emacs09:13
ubottuemacs (source: emacs): GNU Emacs editor (metapackage). In component universe, is optional. Version 1:26.3+1-1ubuntu2 (focal), package size 12 kB, installed size 76 kB09:13
brainwashbodiccea_: not sure what you mean09:14
bodiccea_What is not clear for you ?09:14
bodiccea_When I started 20.04 upgrade, a message said 21 packages were no more included, including 3 important one.09:15
brainwashyou claim that emacs is not in 20.0409:15
brainwashpossibly the package name changed09:16
bodiccea_emacs is emacs, nmap is nmap.09:16
bodiccea_yes it is.09:17
brainwashin 18.04 there is emacs2509:17
bodiccea_this was emacs.09:17
brainwashin 20.04 the (meta)package name is now "emacs"09:17
brainwashso, you can reinstall it09:18
bodiccea_I will see after upgrade is finished, but the message seemed clear.09:18
brainwash!info nmap09:19
ubottunmap (source: nmap): The Network Mapper. In component universe, is extra. Version 7.80+dfsg1-2build1 (focal), package size 1623 kB, installed size 4394 kB09:19
brainwashit's still there too09:19
bodiccea_Will see too. So why this stupid message if wrong ?09:19
brainwashdid you maybe install those packages from a 3rd party repository?09:19
bodiccea_Anyway, I run my own compiled emacs version, but I had the Ubuntu one installed.09:20
bodiccea_What is strange is the message, which clearly said "no more supported". How do you understand these words ? For me, meaning is: it was, it is no more.09:24
bodicceaWell, I am on 20.04, no specific snap installed, I immediately did : https://dr-knz.net/ubuntu-without-snap.html hoping that none will ever be installed.14:25
bodicceathe upgrade was smooth (from 19.10). Only I had to download radiotray-ng from github, as radiotray in no more on Ubuntu (which depends on python2, which is no more on Ubuntu 20.04)14:29
sebtty0Hi, here is a PC repair story: There were 2 random crashs in xubuntu 20.04. I startet memtest, frozen at 30%. I switched the RAM, CPU, Mainboard - same problem. Memtest still frozen at 30%. Ok last piece to change was power supply. No sucess still frozen. This was very frustrating. Then I started memtest86+ 5.01 from USB drive - no problem. ??? There was a problem in the integrated memtest86+ 5.01 of xubuntu 20.04! Same problem on another machine. Can anybody16:41
sebtty0please test his integrated memtest16:41
tomreynsebtty0: what seems to be the problem with the memtest utility then?18:01
tomreynalso note you may want to discuss this in #ubuntu for a larger audience18:01
tomreynis your platform supported at all? did you read http://www.memtest.org/ and http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/m/memtest86+/ and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/memtest86+/+bugs yet?18:04
CurlySebtty0 I have a question for you.  Are the RAM modules identical ?  If not you have a problem.18:11
sebtty0I have two PCs Desktop: 4x4GB, Laptop 2x8GB on both xubuntu 20.04. the integrated memtest is on both machines freezing. When I start memtest (same version 5.01) from usb drive, no problems18:16
sebtty0the problem with the integrated memtest (started from grub) is freezing at about 30% of the first test, after 10s running18:17
CurlySomeone had the same problem:   https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/computer-freezes-during-memtest.117669/18:18
CurlyI have seen this before. It had to do with  asymmetrical RAM modules.18:20
CurlyRAM modules must be identical.  Also same speed modules.18:20
sebtty0but why is the same memtest version running from pen drive without problems?18:21
CurlyIf you put two asymmetrical modules on a system, the slowest speed module will rule and it doesn't matter how fast that other module is.18:21
CurlyIt may be a BUS issue I cannot say for sure.18:23
sebtty0my laptop has 2 identical modules. also on this computer: ubuntu memtest started from grub - freeze, memtest from USB pen drive 100% successfull18:24
CurlyThat  test you are doing is a   benchmark  test. Those type of tests bog down the CPU.18:24
sebtty0<tomreyn> my platform is supported and I read your links18:25
sebtty0<Curly> memtest86+ is a memory stability test18:26
CurlyWhat about everything else?  Is it working OK?18:26
sebtty0yes it is working18:26
CurlyThat's a good sign. :)18:27
sebtty0but i think there is a bug in (x)ubuntu with the memtest.18:27
CurlyYou could be 100% correct.18:27
CurlyKeep on    sudo    update & upgrade18:28
sebtty0ok thank you18:29
CurlyBefore I do anything on this server, I always   sudo apt-get18:29
tomreynsebtty0: how did you ensure it's the exact same memtest when you run it from a usb pen drive vs from installed disk / via grub?18:34
tomreyn5.01 is an upstream version number. the software packaged in ubuntu can be modified, getting a different (package) version number.18:36
sebtty0tomreyn Now I test on my netbook with xubuntu 18.04. memtest (version 5.01 is displayed in memtest) is running fine. I copied the complete /boot. Now i upgrade to 20.04. Then I will checksum-compare the memtest files19:02
sebtty0I thought memtest is a binary blob in all ubuntu versions. Now I understand the difference between the upstream and the package version 18.04: memtest86+ 5.01-3ubuntu2     20.04: 5.01-3.1ubuntu2 - and USB-drive: official memtest5.0119:15
CurlyThat's funny.19:16
sebtty0:) ok not a binary binary LOB :)19:17
CurlyKeep in mind that all memory modules have a  BIOS that is factory set.19:18
CurlyI have a USB   Verbatim  memory stick.  It always shows up on the prompt as Verbatim.19:18
CurlyIt is hard-wired.19:19
sebtty0ok now my netbook is at 20.04 - now memtest is freezing at 60% (8GB) - memtest of 18.04 was running fine19:28
CurlyThere is a possibility that the RAM modules are defective.19:30
CurlyNever rule anything out.19:31
CurlyBrand new parts can be defective. I have invariably seen this happen many times.19:32
sebtty0On my netbook I only compared memtest between 18.04 and 20.04 without USB19:52
CurlyHave you seen the Linux babe?20:00
=== Rtfsc9 is now known as Rtfsc8
CurlyHello to you too.   :)21:18
CurlyWhat is on your mind n-iCe   ?21:21
n-iCeCurly: nothing, just watching youtube videos21:51
Curlyn-iCe  I have been watching CNN with the video capture of a police officer involved in shooting a man. This world is going crazy. And we worry about computers.  Deadly force seems OK with the police dept.22:13
CurlyJustifialble homicide by police. What a disgrace.22:16
n-iCeCurly: world has been always crazy22:30
n-iCewe just notice more because of social networks and tech22:30
CurlyIt is not the world that is crazy, it is the people who choose to be crazy.22:31
CurlyI agree.22:31
CurlyThis IRC channel is a Social Network.22:31
n-iCeit is22:32
n-iCeand old one22:32
CurlyIt is baneful to feel no power to see the superior authorities abusing other human being.22:32
CurlyYes baneful and painful too.22:35
CurlyI remember the Rodney King   interview with him. "Can't we all just get along?" His plaintive cry.22:36
n-iCewell, it is the world we live in22:40
CurlyWe have no choice to be alive my friend. How we conduct our lives is paramount.22:40
CurlyPeople like to bully others. It is a power struggle which is unreasonable.22:41
CurlyI saw a video of Iran. One of the dictators beheaded his own cousin on National TV. I was amazed to see that. That was during the Osama Bin Laden regime.22:43
CurlyThe Gulf War was a terrible tragedy.22:45
CurlyYou may not have seen this word but that type of behavior is   opprobrious.22:49
Curly115,251 deaths right now due to the Corona virus.23:00
krytarikCurly: I know various people have tried to remind you before of the purpose of this channel, it is solely for support of the Xubuntu distro, rather than anything you care to talk about, and also not for chit chat - there are channels on this network dedicated to those other topics, including #xubuntu-offtopic as mentioned in the channel description.23:25
CurlyWho are the   " Various People?"       chit chat. I don't chit chat. I take umbrage to that statement. Your comment to me is off topic.23:27
krytarik!guidelines | Curly23:28
ubottuCurly: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines23:28
CurlyI like to help people and to act like a robot is not humane.23:29
Unit193We're not asking you to act like a robot, just to stay on the subject of support.  Going off on Iran, the Gulf War, and corona aren't related to Xubuntu.23:29
CurlyHuman life is human life. You sound like you don't give a  *******   Tell someone else that chatter.23:30
CurlyWho is    "   We   <-0-<    ?23:31
CurlyWe are not asking?    <0----<   Who is the   WE?23:31
CurlyThe    " we "  is you.23:31
krytarikIn this case two users who are also operators of this channel.23:32
CurlyOh! Operators.23:32
CurlyI am not trying to be a smart ass but if you push buttons, you won't like the response.23:33
Unit193We're not pushing buttons, we're just trying to get you to follow the rules as laid out in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines, and to which you seem to take exception to.23:34
krytarikAnd by "push buttions" you mean reminding someone of the channel purpose?23:34
CurlyNo. not at all.23:34
CurlyYou want everyone here on this channel to see how much authority you want to dictate. OK.23:34
krytarikCurly: Well, you've been using this channel for days as your personal soap box and also hardly give any valuable input on the actual topic, so..23:37
CurlyThat is your opinion. Soap Box, ?   That was rediculous.23:37
n-iCeCurly: you have to understand them, this channels is for xubuntu help purposes, you might want to find a more social channel to chat in!23:38
n-iCedon't get it wrong!23:38
CurlyHiding behind a monitor and computer screen and keyboard is not a good thing. Go outside and breath some real air.23:38
CurlyBy the time you just castigated me, you could have said something nice, but you chose to denegrate my character.23:40
krytarikWell, by now we are just sick of seeing you rambling in here on unrelated things every time we look at the channel.23:42
CurlyKrytarik, I don't use this channel as "my personal soap box."23:42
CurlyWe again.23:42
krytarikYes, we.23:42
CurlyThat is so immature.23:43
CurlySoap box is used as a term for preachers. I never preached the Bible here. If I did you would know. I don't think you ever read the Bible and that is your prerogative.23:44
krytarikCurly: You know, I've started to wonder, did you frequent these channels before using another nick?23:46
CurlyWhy ask that?23:46
krytarikThe way you talk started to seem familiar, that is.23:47
CurlyMaybe you met me on the old #Linux channel on Dalnet.23:47
krytarikNope, never been on that network even.23:48
CurlyYou remind me of   Jblack.23:48
CurlyHe was cool.23:48
CurlyOh!   Yeah!  you also remind me of:      Dr Doug23:49
CurlyHe was studying at a University and he used me as a suspect or student of his study in psychology. That was years ago.23:50
krytarikWell, whatever.  Just try and stick to the topic and we'll be fine.23:50
CurlyKrytarik, thanks for the discipline. I will work at complying.  :)  don't get your bowels in an uproar. I hope all is forgiven.  :)23:51
CurlyMost operating systems have     "Easter Eggs."  I found one in Ubuntu.  the  cow. But no others yes.23:53

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