[03:22] <Curly> Wow!  This channel is so quiet.
[03:25] <Curly> Whatever happened to the:   Linux babe?   Has she been here?   She was funny.
[06:34] <Curly> Day changed to 13 Jun 2020
[06:36] <Curly> Does anyone remember the year 2,000    there was the hype about when a computer turned to the year 2,000 it would not work and all kinds of kaos would take place.
[06:36] <Curly> It was headline news.
[06:37] <Curly> Anyone can set the computer time to any date.
[06:39] <Curly> What would happen if the computer runs out of digits?   The year  pi  3.14159
[06:41] <Curly> Angular velocity is  6.28    that is   2 x pi
[06:47] <bodiccea_> I am thinking about upgrading to 20.04 (from 19.10), but I have a concern about snaps. Will such upgrade imply some snaps will be on my system ? Out of question for me to have this kind of stuff on my machine.
[06:49] <Curly> Greetings Bodicea_   Nice to see you again.
[06:50] <Curly> Bodiccea_ upgrading I don't know. It all depends upon your hardware and what you plan on doing with that Linux box.
[06:51] <Curly> If it works, don't fix it.
[06:51] <diogenes_> bodiccea_, you can check what's incuded into 20.04 right here: https://distrotest.net/Xubuntu
[06:52] <Curly> To me  18.04   is just fine and it is a STABLE distro. Keep with what is stable.
[06:52] <Curly> I am using the LTS version.
[06:53] <Curly> Long Term Support.
[06:53] <bodiccea_> Curly, this is a "standard" desktop PC. The link you gave gives the packages list, not the packaging system. I am asking about packaging system only (dpkg vs snap)
[06:54] <Curly> Oh! I am running the Server version right now.
[06:55] <Curly> You can always modify your desktop to a Server.
[06:56] <Curly> If you do   dpkg use the  pipe   |  less    command.
[06:57] <bodiccea_> Said a different way: I do not not want snap packaging on my PC. As I will still need to upgrade my system, and if snap becomes the default packaging system in all Ubuntus from 20.04, I will have no choice than going to another distro, unfortunately.
[06:59] <Curly> Bodiccea_ Is this your installation for a professional business or a private install?
[07:00] <bodiccea_> Curly, I don't understand what is the difference for snaps, but to answer you: private.
[07:01] <Curly> I see.
[07:01] <Curly> Well! Let me cogitate on this.   Snaps   <-------<   Sounds like a cracker.  :)
[07:04] <Curly> From what I am reading,   Snaps is a   .deb   Debian or UNICES.
[07:04] <Curly> Snaps-which have the ".snap" extension-are more similar to containers. Applications in Snaps are self-contained, include all the libraries they need to function, and are sandboxed. They'll install to their own directory and they won't interfere with the rest of your system.
[07:04] <bodiccea_> exact, this is what i *do not* want.
[07:08] <Curly> Your last statement was ambiguous.   You "want interference with the rest of your system?
[07:09] <bodiccea_> No, I don't want hundreds of duplicated libraries. I call this bloatware :)
[07:09] <Curly> Hey!  I am on the same page.   Usless crap on the hard drive is garbage.
[07:09] <bodiccea_> You said you are running 18.04, do you have any issue with "interferences" ?
[07:10] <Curly> Interferrence from what?
[07:10] <Curly> My system runs like a top.
[07:10] <bodiccea_> because you don't use snaps :)
[07:10] <Curly> I don't need it.
[07:10] <Curly> I keep things simple.
[07:10] <bodiccea_> exact. Nor me.
[07:11] <Curly> The more crap you put on your computer, the more things you have to be concerned about.
[07:11] <bodiccea_> So I come back to my first question: Will upg to 20.04 imply snaps will be default packaging system instead of debian (.deb) one ?
[07:11] <Curly> Homey don't play that    :)     ;)
[07:12] <Curly> From my personal experience, Debian is the closest thing to a bonafide UNIX kernel.
[07:13] <Curly> Actually,   BSD is closest. I have used both. I like them.
[07:13] <Curly> BSD has a whole different set of commands.
[07:15] <Curly> https://www.howtogeek.com/252047/how-to-install-and-manage-snap-packages-on-ubuntu-16.04-lts/
[07:16] <Curly> Howtogeek is one of my favorite websites.
[07:16] <Unit193> Curly: ...You're really not answering the question here, if you don't know that's fine too.
[07:17] <Unit193> bodiccea_: Some upgrades have gotten the "snap store" or so I've read, rather than the normal software center.  lxd and chromium are also snaps, but generally speaking Xubuntu is still usable without snapd.
[07:17] <bodiccea_> In fact, as it is not clear for me, I am starting to look at Mint (which refuses snap packaging distro), and Debian. They may be others.
[07:18] <Curly> I am studying up on this and I found some interesting sites.
[07:18] <bodiccea_> s/distro/system/
[07:19] <Unit193> Didn't know that about Mint, but if it is a concern to you and Xubuntu is no longer a fit, I'd say go with Debian.  But I am biased, you should do your own evaluation.
[07:19] <Curly> What is interesting is that SNAP is not only a Linux thing:   https://www.snapppackaging.com/index
[07:19] <Curly> That is funny.
[07:20] <Curly> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23052108
[07:25] <Curly> I didn't know there was a 20.04 version. http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/snap-vs-deb-package
[07:26] <Curly> Yes I did. I didn't like it. Too many problems.
[07:27] <Curly> I burned the DVD disk and threw it out.
[07:27] <Curly> Not on fire. Burn like digital burn.
[07:28] <bodiccea_> I was thinking Mint, as it is derived from Debian/Ubuntu. Without snaps :) Less changes for me. Debian, I will ask my local LUG, some are using it as desktop.
[07:28] <Curly> Pyromaniac   burning disks.  :)
[07:29] <Unit193> Curly: You seem to be rambling a bit, mind toning that down?
[07:29] <Curly> Bodiccea_ if your version is working OK, why invest in time looking for something else? I don't understand.
[07:31] <bodiccea_> Curly, because non LTS versions have 9 months support only.
[07:34] <Unit193> I mean that's kind of the point, LTSes get 3 years, typical releases basically are only supported until the next release.
[07:34] <Curly> I will assure you that your LTS version runs just fine and if you know about the expression:  "Guilding the Lilly." It seems that you want an aircastle. Which is a space in the clouds. By that time, perhaps a newer kernel will be present. :)
[07:36] <Curly> Even if a newer kenel were to be, this now Xubuntu will be around for a long time to come.
[07:37] <Curly> Lots of programmers and gurus are moving to Xubuntu rather than the Linux daemon. It is all Lunux in the long run.
[07:41] <Curly> From what I have learned and I know programmers who work for Microsoft, Microsoft is plagiarizing source code from Linux source code.
[07:43] <Curly> Linux is open source. Microsoft is compiled and closed source code.
[07:44] <bodiccea_> What is the point in discussion ?
[07:47] <bodiccea_> Well, I think I made my decision. What I will do: upg to 20.04. If I see any snap, switch to Mint. Debian will be too difficult for "proprietary" stuff (audio/video codecs, drivers, etc...). And release cycle is too slow for me.
[07:50] <Curly> Debian is a great choice. By the way I do   forensic data recovery.    The data software is Debian. I was surprised to find that out.
[07:51] <bodiccea_> With a 2 years release cycle, I don't like it very much.
[07:51] <bodiccea_> I mean for desktop.
[07:53] <bodiccea_> And still the issue with needed proprietary stuff. I want to listen Music/watch videos out of the box :) And use nvidia driver out of the box for example.
[07:53] <Curly> Don't worry about the 2 years.  What you are working on right now is paramount. As you stated, your installation is a home based install.
[07:53] <Curly> Have you installed   VLC  Media Player?
[07:54] <bodiccea_> I don't on my server (a Beaglebone Black), which runs Debian. I do for desktop.
[07:54] <Curly> VLC if you do the homework is a Video Server and much more. Check it out.
[07:55] <bodiccea_> I have VLC.
[07:55] <Curly> VLC means   video  LAN   Local Area Network.
[07:56] <Curly> It is a free video software but more than that, it works great and it is free.
[07:58] <bodiccea_> why do you say what everybody knows? And VLC is common name for (former) VideoLan Client.
[07:59] <bodiccea_> Well, I must quit, starting 20.04 upgrade.
[08:07] <Curly> Never quit!  Be  steadfast.
[09:03] <bodiccea_> Oh, no more supported in 20.04 (beside others): emacs, nmap, gsfonts. What is that ? Where is Ubuntu going ?
[09:13] <brainwash> !info emacs
[09:14] <brainwash> bodiccea_: not sure what you mean
[09:14] <bodiccea_> What is not clear for you ?
[09:15] <bodiccea_> When I started 20.04 upgrade, a message said 21 packages were no more included, including 3 important one.
[09:15] <brainwash> you claim that emacs is not in 20.04
[09:15] <bodiccea_> Yes.
[09:16] <bodiccea_> s/included/supported/
[09:16] <brainwash> possibly the package name changed
[09:16] <bodiccea_> impossible.
[09:16] <bodiccea_> emacs is emacs, nmap is nmap.
[09:16] <brainwash> no
[09:17] <bodiccea_> yes it is.
[09:17] <brainwash> in 18.04 there is emacs25
[09:17] <bodiccea_> this was emacs.
[09:17] <brainwash> in 20.04 the (meta)package name is now "emacs"
[09:18] <brainwash> so, you can reinstall it
[09:18] <bodiccea_> I will see after upgrade is finished, but the message seemed clear.
[09:19] <brainwash> !info nmap
[09:19] <brainwash> it's still there too
[09:19] <bodiccea_> Will see too. So why this stupid message if wrong ?
[09:19] <brainwash> did you maybe install those packages from a 3rd party repository?
[09:19] <brainwash> PPA
[09:20] <bodiccea_> No.
[09:20] <bodiccea_> Anyway, I run my own compiled emacs version, but I had the Ubuntu one installed.
[09:24] <bodiccea_> What is strange is the message, which clearly said "no more supported". How do you understand these words ? For me, meaning is: it was, it is no more.
[14:25] <bodiccea> Well, I am on 20.04, no specific snap installed, I immediately did : https://dr-knz.net/ubuntu-without-snap.html hoping that none will ever be installed.
[14:29] <bodiccea> the upgrade was smooth (from 19.10). Only I had to download radiotray-ng from github, as radiotray in no more on Ubuntu (which depends on python2, which is no more on Ubuntu 20.04)
[16:41] <sebtty0> Hi, here is a PC repair story: There were 2 random crashs in xubuntu 20.04. I startet memtest, frozen at 30%. I switched the RAM, CPU, Mainboard - same problem. Memtest still frozen at 30%. Ok last piece to change was power supply. No sucess still frozen. This was very frustrating. Then I started memtest86+ 5.01 from USB drive - no problem. ??? There was a problem in the integrated memtest86+ 5.01 of xubuntu 20.04! Same problem on another machine. Can anybody
[16:41] <sebtty0> please test his integrated memtest
[18:01] <tomreyn> sebtty0: what seems to be the problem with the memtest utility then?
[18:01] <tomreyn> also note you may want to discuss this in #ubuntu for a larger audience
[18:04] <tomreyn> is your platform supported at all? did you read http://www.memtest.org/ and http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/m/memtest86+/ and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/memtest86+/+bugs yet?
[18:11] <Curly> Sebtty0 I have a question for you.  Are the RAM modules identical ?  If not you have a problem.
[18:16] <sebtty0> I have two PCs Desktop: 4x4GB, Laptop 2x8GB on both xubuntu 20.04. the integrated memtest is on both machines freezing. When I start memtest (same version 5.01) from usb drive, no problems
[18:17] <sebtty0> the problem with the integrated memtest (started from grub) is freezing at about 30% of the first test, after 10s running
[18:18] <Curly> Someone had the same problem:   https://www.techspot.com/community/topics/computer-freezes-during-memtest.117669/
[18:20] <Curly> I have seen this before. It had to do with  asymmetrical RAM modules.
[18:20] <Curly> RAM modules must be identical.  Also same speed modules.
[18:21] <sebtty0> but why is the same memtest version running from pen drive without problems?
[18:21] <Curly> If you put two asymmetrical modules on a system, the slowest speed module will rule and it doesn't matter how fast that other module is.
[18:23] <Curly> It may be a BUS issue I cannot say for sure.
[18:24] <sebtty0> my laptop has 2 identical modules. also on this computer: ubuntu memtest started from grub - freeze, memtest from USB pen drive 100% successfull
[18:24] <Curly> That  test you are doing is a   benchmark  test. Those type of tests bog down the CPU.
 my platform is supported and I read your links
 memtest86+ is a memory stability test
[18:26] <Curly> What about everything else?  Is it working OK?
[18:26] <sebtty0> yes it is working
[18:27] <Curly> That's a good sign. :)
[18:27] <sebtty0> but i think there is a bug in (x)ubuntu with the memtest.
[18:27] <Curly> You could be 100% correct.
[18:28] <Curly> Keep on    sudo    update & upgrade
[18:29] <sebtty0> ok thank you
[18:29] <Curly> Before I do anything on this server, I always   sudo apt-get
[18:34] <tomreyn> sebtty0: how did you ensure it's the exact same memtest when you run it from a usb pen drive vs from installed disk / via grub?
[18:36] <tomreyn> 5.01 is an upstream version number. the software packaged in ubuntu can be modified, getting a different (package) version number.
[19:02] <sebtty0> tomreyn Now I test on my netbook with xubuntu 18.04. memtest (version 5.01 is displayed in memtest) is running fine. I copied the complete /boot. Now i upgrade to 20.04. Then I will checksum-compare the memtest files
[19:07] <Curly> memtest
[19:15] <sebtty0> I thought memtest is a binary blob in all ubuntu versions. Now I understand the difference between the upstream and the package version 18.04: memtest86+ 5.01-3ubuntu2     20.04: 5.01-3.1ubuntu2 - and USB-drive: official memtest5.01
[19:16] <Curly> Binary
[19:16] <Curly> Blob
[19:16] <Curly> That's funny.
[19:17] <sebtty0> :) ok not a binary binary LOB :)
[19:18] <Curly> Keep in mind that all memory modules have a  BIOS that is factory set.
[19:18] <Curly> I have a USB   Verbatim  memory stick.  It always shows up on the prompt as Verbatim.
[19:19] <Curly> It is hard-wired.
[19:28] <sebtty0> ok now my netbook is at 20.04 - now memtest is freezing at 60% (8GB) - memtest of 18.04 was running fine
[19:29] <sebtty0> https://imgur.com/a/9D73zjT
[19:30] <Curly> There is a possibility that the RAM modules are defective.
[19:31] <Curly> Never rule anything out.
[19:32] <Curly> Brand new parts can be defective. I have invariably seen this happen many times.
[19:52] <sebtty0> On my netbook I only compared memtest between 18.04 and 20.04 without USB
[20:00] <Curly> Have you seen the Linux babe?
[20:00] <Curly> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Goddess_gif_small_4.gif
[21:18] <n-iCe> hello
[21:18] <Curly> Hello to you too.   :)
[21:21] <Curly> What is on your mind n-iCe   ?
[21:51] <n-iCe> Curly: nothing, just watching youtube videos
[22:13] <Curly> n-iCe  I have been watching CNN with the video capture of a police officer involved in shooting a man. This world is going crazy. And we worry about computers.  Deadly force seems OK with the police dept.
[22:16] <Curly> Justifialble homicide by police. What a disgrace.
[22:30] <n-iCe> Curly: world has been always crazy
[22:30] <n-iCe> we just notice more because of social networks and tech
[22:31] <Curly> It is not the world that is crazy, it is the people who choose to be crazy.
[22:31] <Curly> I agree.
[22:31] <Curly> This IRC channel is a Social Network.
[22:32] <n-iCe> it is
[22:32] <n-iCe> and old one
[22:32] <Curly> It is baneful to feel no power to see the superior authorities abusing other human being.
[22:32] <Curly> beings.
[22:35] <Curly> Yes baneful and painful too.
[22:36] <Curly> I remember the Rodney King   interview with him. "Can't we all just get along?" His plaintive cry.
[22:40] <n-iCe> well, it is the world we live in
[22:40] <Curly> We have no choice to be alive my friend. How we conduct our lives is paramount.
[22:41] <Curly> People like to bully others. It is a power struggle which is unreasonable.
[22:43] <Curly> I saw a video of Iran. One of the dictators beheaded his own cousin on National TV. I was amazed to see that. That was during the Osama Bin Laden regime.
[22:45] <Curly> The Gulf War was a terrible tragedy.
[22:49] <Curly> You may not have seen this word but that type of behavior is   opprobrious.
[22:50] <Curly> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=oprobrious&atb=v215-1&ia=definition
[23:00] <Curly> 115,251 deaths right now due to the Corona virus.
[23:25] <krytarik> Curly: I know various people have tried to remind you before of the purpose of this channel, it is solely for support of the Xubuntu distro, rather than anything you care to talk about, and also not for chit chat - there are channels on this network dedicated to those other topics, including #xubuntu-offtopic as mentioned in the channel description.
[23:27] <Curly> Who are the   " Various People?"       chit chat. I don't chit chat. I take umbrage to that statement. Your comment to me is off topic.
[23:28] <krytarik> !guidelines | Curly
[23:29] <Curly> I like to help people and to act like a robot is not humane.
[23:29] <Unit193> We're not asking you to act like a robot, just to stay on the subject of support.  Going off on Iran, the Gulf War, and corona aren't related to Xubuntu.
[23:30] <Curly> Human life is human life. You sound like you don't give a  *******   Tell someone else that chatter.
[23:31] <Curly> Who is    "   We   <-0-<    ?
[23:31] <Curly> We
[23:31] <Curly> We are not asking?    <0----<   Who is the   WE?
[23:31] <Curly> The    " we "  is you.
[23:32] <krytarik> In this case two users who are also operators of this channel.
[23:32] <Curly> Oh! Operators.
[23:33] <Curly> I am not trying to be a smart ass but if you push buttons, you won't like the response.
[23:34] <Unit193> We're not pushing buttons, we're just trying to get you to follow the rules as laid out in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines, and to which you seem to take exception to.
[23:34] <krytarik> And by "push buttions" you mean reminding someone of the channel purpose?
[23:34] <Curly> No. not at all.
[23:34] <Curly> You want everyone here on this channel to see how much authority you want to dictate. OK.
[23:37] <krytarik> Curly: Well, you've been using this channel for days as your personal soap box and also hardly give any valuable input on the actual topic, so..
[23:37] <Curly> That is your opinion. Soap Box, ?   That was rediculous.
[23:38] <n-iCe> Curly: you have to understand them, this channels is for xubuntu help purposes, you might want to find a more social channel to chat in!
[23:38] <n-iCe> don't get it wrong!
[23:38] <Curly> Hiding behind a monitor and computer screen and keyboard is not a good thing. Go outside and breath some real air.
[23:40] <Curly> By the time you just castigated me, you could have said something nice, but you chose to denegrate my character.
[23:42] <krytarik> Well, by now we are just sick of seeing you rambling in here on unrelated things every time we look at the channel.
[23:42] <Curly> Krytarik, I don't use this channel as "my personal soap box."
[23:42] <Curly> We again.
[23:42] <krytarik> Yes, we.
[23:43] <Curly> That is so immature.
[23:44] <Curly> Soap box is used as a term for preachers. I never preached the Bible here. If I did you would know. I don't think you ever read the Bible and that is your prerogative.
[23:46] <krytarik> Curly: You know, I've started to wonder, did you frequent these channels before using another nick?
[23:46] <Curly> Why ask that?
[23:47] <krytarik> The way you talk started to seem familiar, that is.
[23:47] <Curly> Maybe you met me on the old #Linux channel on Dalnet.
[23:48] <krytarik> Nope, never been on that network even.
[23:48] <Curly> You remind me of   Jblack.
[23:48] <Curly> He was cool.
[23:49] <Curly> Oh!   Yeah!  you also remind me of:      Dr Doug
[23:50] <Curly> He was studying at a University and he used me as a suspect or student of his study in psychology. That was years ago.
[23:50] <krytarik> Well, whatever.  Just try and stick to the topic and we'll be fine.
[23:51] <Curly> Krytarik, thanks for the discipline. I will work at complying.  :)  don't get your bowels in an uproar. I hope all is forgiven.  :)
[23:53] <Curly> Most operating systems have     "Easter Eggs."  I found one in Ubuntu.  the  cow. But no others yes.
[23:57] <Curly> https://askubuntu.com/questions/12336/easter-eggs-in-ubuntu#13058