/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2020/06/15/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

slashdo/18:57
rafaeldtinocoo/18:58
sil2100o/18:58
rbasako/18:59
rafaeldtinoco#startmeeting Developer Membership Board Meeting18:59
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Jun 15 18:59:58 2020 UTC.  The chair is rafaeldtinoco. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.18:59
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick18:59
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic:
ddstreeto/19:00
rafaeldtinoco#chair rafaeldtinoco19:00
meetingologyCurrent chairs: rafaeldtinoco19:00
rafaeldtinoco#topic Review of previous action items19:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
rafaeldtinocoddstreet: should i start with your items ?19:00
ddstreetsure, i think most are done19:01
rafaeldtinocoalright19:01
rafaeldtinocoddstreet follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate (carried over)19:01
ddstreetdone, team's created and pkgset is moved over to using it19:01
rafaeldtinocoI have a question regarding the team creations to the end19:02
rafaeldtinocomoving on19:02
rafaeldtinocoddstreet to handle PPU rights of tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc for alkisg ahead of edubuntu packageset removal in the future19:02
ddstreetdone19:02
rafaeldtinocoddstreet send out announcement for oSoMoN addition to mozilla packageset (rolled over)19:02
ddstreetyep sent, done19:02
rafaeldtinocook.. now my stuff19:02
ddstreetone addition first19:02
rafaeldtinocosure19:02
ddstreetbriefly19:02
ddstreetas alkisg should now have all the upload rights needed from the edubuntu pkgset, we should add a action item to remove it, unless there is any other reason for keeping it19:03
rafaeldtinocowhat happened to the seeds, do u know ?19:04
rafaeldtinocoi can add filters to pkgset scripts, but they are basically creating the sets coming from existing seeds19:04
ddstreetno, i haven't looked at it other than adding alkisg's upload pkgs19:04
rafaeldtinocook.. let me add an action to myself here19:04
rbasakThe packageset scripts have a list of autogenerated packagesets, don't they?19:05
rafaeldtinocorbasak: yep, I can simply filter out edubuntu19:05
rafaeldtinocoim wondering about the seeds existance19:05
rafaeldtinocoshould we care ?19:05
rbasakI thought was an inclusion list rather than an exclusion list?19:05
rafaeldtinocoits a shell script with an array currently19:06
rbasakBut yeah, we could be good citizens and remove the seed too19:06
rafaeldtinocoand then germinate runs through all generated files19:06
rafaeldtinocook, for the seed removal we will need an aa19:06
rafaeldtinoco#action rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped19:06
meetingologyACTION: rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped19:06
ddstreetand we should probably manually remove edubuntu from groovy, right?  but leave it untouched from focal and earlier?19:06
rbasakThat might be more of a release team or AA thing, yeah19:06
rafaeldtinocoif you all agree ^19:06
rbasakPresumably the image generation machinery needs disconnecting if it isn't already19:07
rbasak+119:07
rafaeldtinocohum. true19:07
ddstreet+119:07
rafaeldtinocoit will be a good exercise to understand in deep the correlation19:07
rbasakYes - I'd love to learn from you when you're done figuring it out :)19:07
rafaeldtinocoddstreet: yes (for the groovy removal part)19:07
rafaeldtinocoyep the pkgsets changes emails are about the re-start once im done19:08
rafaeldtinocolet me move to my items19:08
rafaeldtinocoand we can catch up after19:08
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to follow up with TB / packageset tooling on ubuntu-studio-uploaders being added to ubuntustudio packageset for upload rights19:08
rafaeldtinoco>  Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-studio-uploaders: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntustudio' in groovy19:08
rafaeldtinocodone19:08
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)19:08
rafaeldtinoco> Archive Upload Rights for lubuntu-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'lubuntu' in groovy19:08
rafaeldtinocodone19:08
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to complete documentation on existing packageset tooling, and discuss the current (large) delta in the packagesets that need adjusted (rolled over)19:09
rafaeldtinoco> Work in progress, move to long term please.19:09
rafaeldtinoco#action rafaeldtinoco to move pkgset tooling documentation to long term19:09
meetingologyACTION: rafaeldtinoco to move pkgset tooling documentation to long term19:09
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to handle getting gnome-shell into ubuntu desktop exceptions list19:09
rafaeldtinoco> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in groovy19:09
rafaeldtinocodone19:09
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to handle "Refresh the packagesets" mailing list item (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001486.html)19:09
rafaeldtinocodone ^19:09
rafaeldtinoco@ddstreet lets talk about this one after I finish my items19:09
rafaeldtinocoper your previous email19:09
ddstreetack19:10
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "Including yaru-theme in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001487.html)19:10
rafaeldtinoco> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in groovy19:10
rafaeldtinocodone19:10
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "Include fprint packages in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001488.html)19:10
rafaeldtinoco>    Add libfprint to exceptions for ubuntu-desktop pkgset19:10
rafaeldtinococommitted19:10
rafaeldtinoco> $ edit-acl add -S {groovy,focal,eoan,bionic} -s libfprint -P ubuntu-desktop -t upload19:10
rafaeldtinocodone19:10
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to handle "Packages to Remove from ubuntustudio packageset" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-May/001497.html)19:10
rafaeldtinoco> Done with the pkgset tool re-run for Groovy.19:10
rafaeldtinocorafaeldtinoco to handle "Applying packageset exceptions transitively" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-May/001501.html)19:10
rafaeldtinoco> Work in progress, move to long term please.19:11
rafaeldtinoco#action rafaeldtinoco to document exceptions inclusion for DMB team19:11
meetingologyACTION: rafaeldtinoco to document exceptions inclusion for DMB team19:11
rafaeldtinocook19:11
rafaeldtinocowe have no applications today19:11
rafaeldtinocoshould we discuss anything here19:11
rafaeldtinocoor at the end ?19:11
ddstreeti guess just the mailing list items?19:12
rafaeldtinoco#topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign19:12
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
rafaeldtinocojackd2 for ubuntustudio packageset (Erich Eickmeyer)19:12
rafaeldtinocoddstreet: ^19:12
ddstreetrafaeldtinoco so, i don't really understand your email reply, but i think that's because i don't understand the tooling yet19:13
rafaeldtinocolet me clarify for you then19:14
rafaeldtinocoin single terms19:14
rafaeldtinocosimple19:14
rafaeldtinocoall pkgset inclusion/exclusion is done by the tooling.. for -devel only19:14
rafaeldtinocobased on the existing seeds for the -devel version.19:14
rafaeldtinocoif there is a pkg that is in the wrong pkgset (server instead of ubuntustudio, lets say)19:15
rafaeldtinocowe have one file to be updated to mark it as an exception19:15
rafaeldtinocothe tooling will be ran 2 or 3 times a week and send an email with the changes19:15
rafaeldtinocoif no complains, the changes will be applied (to devel, based on seed, again)19:16
ddstreetso, packages can only be in a single packageset?19:16
rafaeldtinocogood question19:16
rafaeldtinocothere are seeds that extend other seeds19:17
rbasakAIUI, there are various edge cases that are handled poorly or have surprising results19:17
rafaeldtinocorbasak: +1 on what you said19:17
rafaeldtinocothe logic is a big python batch with lots of edge cases19:17
rbasakWhen we've tried to clean these up in the past, different DMB members have had different opinions on what the answer should be19:17
rafaeldtinocothat part is the one I still have to work on19:17
ddstreetso with this example, was it wrong for me to add jackd2 to ubuntustudio packageset?19:18
ddstreetbecause that would break some other packageset?19:18
rafaeldtinocoso with that example19:18
rbasakI think for now we have to just keep adding exceptions case-by-case, and longer term it'd be nice to specify what the behaviour should be and then start adjusting the tooling to head towards that goal.19:18
rafaeldtinocofor all previous versions .. doing by hand was correct (because we are not automatically updating those).19:18
rafaeldtinocofor groovy .. the correct thing was to put it as an exception.. so instead of "server" it would be "ubuntustudio" in the next automatic generation changes19:18
rafaeldtinocoan email would be sent to us saying that it was about to add the source package (jackd2) to ubuntustudio19:19
rafaeldtinocowe would not complain and the changes would be committed19:19
rafaeldtinocorbasak: yes19:19
rafaeldtinocoi want to put what we have "in production"19:19
rafaeldtinocoand read the batch better19:19
rafaeldtinocoand document what it does (with germinate output)19:19
rafaeldtinocoand we can maybe discuss19:19
ddstreetso our packageset list doesn't include 'hidden' packagesets like 'server'? https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/groovy/19:19
ddstreetor do you mean 'ubuntu-server'19:20
rbasakddstreet: a consequence of manually adjusting an automatic packageset is that the next time the tooling is run, it might try to undo what you did, and then the person running it has to either go with it or code up an exception. Sometimes that's hard to do. The alternatives are to fix the tooling before making the adjustment, or to leave the uploader stuck without the packageset change. None of19:20
rbasakthese options are good :-/19:20
rafaeldtinocoddstreet: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H4GBJFYpNK/19:20
ddstreetright, i was clear that my addition of jackd2 might be undone later, which is why i added the follow-up in the agenda to see if the seed update was all that's needed19:20
rafaeldtinocothe jackd2 case I'll re-check19:21
rafaeldtinocoactually19:21
rafaeldtinocoI replied to you on that already19:21
rafaeldtinocoright ?19:21
rafaeldtinoco(just checking)19:21
rbasakddstreet: yeah and to be clear I'm fine with your approach.19:21
ddstreetok, maybe it's just me who doesn't see the link between the seeds and packagesets, i'm hoping to get a clearer picture once the tooling is documented...19:21
ddstreetmaybe i should just read the existing tooling now19:22
ddstreetwell, not *now*, but i mean before refactoring19:22
rafaeldtinoco#action rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps)19:22
meetingologyACTION: rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps)19:22
rbasakIn the case that a package is only seeded from one place, it'll end up in the corresponding automatic packageset if there is one.19:22
rbasakIf it's seeded from more than one place, then the tooling has various logic to try and resolve it.19:22
rbasakThat's the extent of my knowledge :)19:22
rafaeldtinocoyes19:23
rafaeldtinocorbasak: said correctly19:23
rbasak(and when I say seed, I probably mean germinate - it doesn't matter whether the package is directly or indirectly seeded)19:23
rafaeldtinocothere are some decisions made to see where the package will stay (and now it even reads the pkg dependencies)19:23
rafaeldtinocothis part was made by iain in last change19:23
rafaeldtinocoim about to enter that batch code now =)19:24
rafaeldtinocoddstreet: let me document something "quick" for the next meeting19:24
rafaeldtinoco"what to do instead of edit-acl for -devel"19:24
rafaeldtinoco- guaranteeing seed is good19:24
rafaeldtinoco- editing exceptions file and commiting19:25
rafaeldtinoco- waiting pkgset auto re-generation19:25
rafaeldtinocotype of thing19:25
ddstreet+1 would definitely help me19:25
rafaeldtinoco#action rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel19:25
meetingologyACTION: rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel19:25
rafaeldtinoco#action rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab)19:25
meetingologyACTION: rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab)19:25
rafaeldtinocook19:25
rafaeldtinocothat was it on my side for this #)19:26
LaneyYEAHHHHH19:26
rafaeldtinoco=)19:26
rafaeldtinocoddstreet: should I move on to TB bugs ?19:26
ddstreetsure19:26
rafaeldtinoco#topic Open TB bugs19:26
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Open TB bugs
LaneyThe idea is that flavour developers get to maintain their own stuff, btw, and 'their own stuff' is defined as the things in their flavour, i.e. what they seed19:26
* Laney runs19:27
rafaeldtinocoLaney: +1 and dont go to far19:27
rafaeldtinocoPackageset modification for ~ubuntu-mate-uploaders19:27
rafaeldtinoco@ddstreet fix released ^19:27
ddstreetyep19:27
ddstreetthough19:27
rafaeldtinocoI have a question about this19:28
ddstreetjust for my own info, should the devel release have been done differently?19:28
ddstreet(or any of it)19:28
rafaeldtinocodevel should be done automatically (through seed updates -> pkgset changes OR by exceptions file being changed)19:28
rafaeldtinocoah for this change19:29
rafaeldtinocono19:29
rafaeldtinocosorry, this is just a permission change19:29
rafaeldtinocoright ? from person to the team19:29
ddstreeti think just uploader change is totally separate from the tooling, right?19:29
ddstreetyep19:29
rafaeldtinocothat is the exact question I have19:29
rafaeldtinocowho defined we would start creating the teams ?19:29
rafaeldtinocoi mean, is there anything we should follow ?19:29
rafaeldtinoco(start creating dev groups with dmb permissions)19:30
ddstreetthere's some docs in the kb19:30
ddstreethttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase19:30
rafaeldtinocobecause this change gives DMB the power to add/remove people from pkgsets19:30
ddstreetyep19:31
rafaeldtinocoshould we do this ad-hoc like you're doing ?19:31
rafaeldtinocoor try to guarantee all pkgsets have their respective devel group ?19:31
* rbasak doesn't follow19:32
rafaeldtinocorbasak: last changes coming from ddstreet19:32
rafaeldtinocolike this19:32
rafaeldtinocohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/188166619:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1881666 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] Packageset modification for ~ubuntu-mate-uploaders" [Undecided,Fix released]19:32
ddstreetchanging the ubuntu-mate packageset uploader from an individual to a team19:32
ddstreetnote that this was the last 'flavor packageset' that *was not* set to team-uploader19:33
ddstreetso now, all the flavor packagesets have team uploaders19:33
rafaeldtinocoah was it ?19:33
rbasakThe main thing is that we own the team, and nobody else apart from the DMB can change its membership19:33
rafaeldtinocook.. so my question is dead19:33
rbasakThat seems correct19:33
ddstreetrbasak so team members can't add other members?19:33
rbasakThere's also the stuff about ~ubuntu-dev vs. ~ubuntu-upladers which is covered in the docs I think?19:33
rbasakCorrect19:33
rbasakThat can be done with a delegation, but the team must explicitly have that19:34
ddstreetwe should make sure not to add anyone to an uploader team as 'administrator' though, right?19:34
rbasakRight19:34
ddstreetunless they have a delegation19:34
ddstreetack19:34
rafaeldtinocohum.19:34
rafaeldtinocothat is new to me, will have to read19:34
ddstreetrbasak rafaeldtinoco note that i did update the dmb kb with some clarification steps19:35
rafaeldtinocoddstreet: tku, ill read it carefully19:35
ddstreethttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase?action=diff&rev2=33&rev1=2719:35
ddstreetor just check the 'info' tab to select diffs19:35
rafaeldtinococool19:35
ddstreeti think everything i added is correct, but please do correct anything as needed19:35
rbasakDelegations documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation19:35
rafaeldtinocoalright, got homework on this19:36
rafaeldtinocoanything else on this discussion ?19:36
ddstreetwe should link the teamdelegation from our kb page19:36
ddstreetif it isn't already19:36
rafaeldtinoco#action rafaeldtinoco link teamdelegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates19:37
meetingologyACTION: rafaeldtinoco link teamdelegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates19:37
rafaeldtinocoill do it since I'll read it again19:37
ddstreetthanks19:37
rafaeldtinoco#topic PPU addition for ~alkisg19:37
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: PPU addition for ~alkisg
rafaeldtinocohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/188165319:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1881653 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] PPU addition for ~alkisg" [Undecided,Fix released]19:37
rafaeldtinocofix released also ^19:37
ddstreetyep19:38
rafaeldtinocodo I have to check groovy for this one ?19:38
rafaeldtinocoah it was permission only19:38
rafaeldtinoconm19:38
rafaeldtinocoppu, ok moving on19:38
ddstreetright, and next one is ppu also i think19:39
rafaeldtinoco#topic PPU addition for ~rcj19:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: PPU addition for ~rcj
rafaeldtinocohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/186667919:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1866679 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] PPU addition for ~rcj" [Undecided,Fix released]19:39
rafaeldtinocofix released also19:39
ddstreetyep, and while the tb bug doesn't list groovy, i am pretty sure he already had ppu for groovy19:39
rafaeldtinococool19:39
rafaeldtinoco#topic Select a chair for the next meeting19:40
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting
rafaeldtinocorbasak: can u chair the next one ?19:40
rafaeldtinocoyou're the next on the list19:40
rafaeldtinocoI can change it later if you can't19:41
rafaeldtinoco#topic Any other business19:41
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board Meeting | Current topic: Any other business
rafaeldtinocook..19:41
rafaeldtinocoany other stuff to be discussed ?19:41
ddstreetnothing else from me19:42
rbasakrafaeldtinoco: sure19:42
rafaeldtinocorbasak: tku19:42
rafaeldtinocook.. im calling it in ... 519:42
rafaeldtinoco419:42
rafaeldtinoco319:42
slashdJust as an fyi ... I'll need to catch up on the current todo, but I'm back after a few weeks of absence.19:42
rafaeldtinocoslashd: welcome back =)19:43
rafaeldtinocoslashd: you will be chairing after rbasak19:43
ddstreetglad to have you back slashd :)19:43
rafaeldtinocofyio19:43
rafaeldtinoco319:43
slashdrafaeldtinoco: no problem for the chairing order19:43
rafaeldtinoco219:43
rafaeldtinoco119:43
rafaeldtinoco#endmeeting19:43
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Jun 15 19:43:46 2020 UTC.19:43
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-06-15-18.59.moin.txt19:43
slashd\o19:43
rafaeldtinocothank you everyone !19:43
rafaeldtinocohave a nice evening!19:44
ddstreetthanks! o/19:44

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