[18:57] <slashd> o/
[18:58] <rafaeldtinoco> o/
[18:58] <sil2100> o/
[18:59] <rbasak> o/
[18:59] <rafaeldtinoco> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board Meeting
[18:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 15 18:59:58 2020 UTC.  The chair is rafaeldtinoco. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:59] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:00] <ddstreet> o/
[19:00] <rafaeldtinoco> #chair rafaeldtinoco
[19:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: rafaeldtinoco
[19:00] <rafaeldtinoco> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:00] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: should i start with your items ?
[19:01] <ddstreet> sure, i think most are done
[19:01] <rafaeldtinoco> alright
[19:01] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet follow up on packageset owning team for ubuntu-mate (carried over)
[19:01] <ddstreet> done, team's created and pkgset is moved over to using it
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> I have a question regarding the team creations to the end
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> moving on
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet to handle PPU rights of tux{math,paint,type},x11vnc for alkisg ahead of edubuntu packageset removal in the future
[19:02] <ddstreet> done
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet send out announcement for oSoMoN addition to mozilla packageset (rolled over)
[19:02] <ddstreet> yep sent, done
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> ok.. now my stuff
[19:02] <ddstreet> one addition first
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> sure
[19:02] <ddstreet> briefly
[19:03] <ddstreet> as alkisg should now have all the upload rights needed from the edubuntu pkgset, we should add a action item to remove it, unless there is any other reason for keeping it
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> what happened to the seeds, do u know ?
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> i can add filters to pkgset scripts, but they are basically creating the sets coming from existing seeds
[19:04] <ddstreet> no, i haven't looked at it other than adding alkisg's upload pkgs
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> ok.. let me add an action to myself here
[19:05] <rbasak> The packageset scripts have a list of autogenerated packagesets, don't they?
[19:05] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: yep, I can simply filter out edubuntu
[19:05] <rafaeldtinoco> im wondering about the seeds existance
[19:05] <rafaeldtinoco> should we care ?
[19:05] <rbasak> I thought was an inclusion list rather than an exclusion list?
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> its a shell script with an array currently
[19:06] <rbasak> But yeah, we could be good citizens and remove the seed too
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> and then germinate runs through all generated files
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> ok, for the seed removal we will need an aa
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped
[19:06] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped
[19:06] <ddstreet> and we should probably manually remove edubuntu from groovy, right?  but leave it untouched from focal and earlier?
[19:06] <rbasak> That might be more of a release team or AA thing, yeah
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> if you all agree ^
[19:07] <rbasak> Presumably the image generation machinery needs disconnecting if it isn't already
[19:07] <rbasak> +1
[19:07] <rafaeldtinoco> hum. true
[19:07] <ddstreet> +1
[19:07] <rafaeldtinoco> it will be a good exercise to understand in deep the correlation
[19:07] <rbasak> Yes - I'd love to learn from you when you're done figuring it out :)
[19:07] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: yes (for the groovy removal part)
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> yep the pkgsets changes emails are about the re-start once im done
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> let me move to my items
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> and we can catch up after
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to follow up with TB / packageset tooling on ubuntu-studio-uploaders being added to ubuntustudio packageset for upload rights
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> >  Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-studio-uploaders: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntustudio' in groovy
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> done
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" (carried over)
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> > Archive Upload Rights for lubuntu-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'lubuntu' in groovy
[19:08] <rafaeldtinoco> done
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to complete documentation on existing packageset tooling, and discuss the current (large) delta in the packagesets that need adjusted (rolled over)
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> > Work in progress, move to long term please.
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to move pkgset tooling documentation to long term
[19:09] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to move pkgset tooling documentation to long term
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to handle getting gnome-shell into ubuntu desktop exceptions list
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> > Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in groovy
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> done
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to handle "Refresh the packagesets" mailing list item (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001486.html)
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> done ^
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> @ddstreet lets talk about this one after I finish my items
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> per your previous email
[19:10] <ddstreet> ack
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "Including yaru-theme in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001487.html)
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> > Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in groovy
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> done
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to look into mailing list item "Include fprint packages in the ubuntu-desktop set" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-April/001488.html)
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> >    Add libfprint to exceptions for ubuntu-desktop pkgset
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> committed
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> > $ edit-acl add -S {groovy,focal,eoan,bionic} -s libfprint -P ubuntu-desktop -t upload
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> done
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to handle "Packages to Remove from ubuntustudio packageset" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-May/001497.html)
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> > Done with the pkgset tool re-run for Groovy.
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> rafaeldtinoco to handle "Applying packageset exceptions transitively" (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2020-May/001501.html)
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> > Work in progress, move to long term please.
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to document exceptions inclusion for DMB team
[19:11] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to document exceptions inclusion for DMB team
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> ok
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> we have no applications today
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> should we discuss anything here
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> or at the end ?
[19:12] <ddstreet> i guess just the mailing list items?
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> jackd2 for ubuntustudio packageset (Erich Eickmeyer)
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: ^
[19:13] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco so, i don't really understand your email reply, but i think that's because i don't understand the tooling yet
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> let me clarify for you then
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> in single terms
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> simple
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> all pkgset inclusion/exclusion is done by the tooling.. for -devel only
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> based on the existing seeds for the -devel version.
[19:15] <rafaeldtinoco> if there is a pkg that is in the wrong pkgset (server instead of ubuntustudio, lets say)
[19:15] <rafaeldtinoco> we have one file to be updated to mark it as an exception
[19:15] <rafaeldtinoco> the tooling will be ran 2 or 3 times a week and send an email with the changes
[19:16] <rafaeldtinoco> if no complains, the changes will be applied (to devel, based on seed, again)
[19:16] <ddstreet> so, packages can only be in a single packageset?
[19:16] <rafaeldtinoco> good question
[19:17] <rafaeldtinoco> there are seeds that extend other seeds
[19:17] <rbasak> AIUI, there are various edge cases that are handled poorly or have surprising results
[19:17] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: +1 on what you said
[19:17] <rafaeldtinoco> the logic is a big python batch with lots of edge cases
[19:17] <rbasak> When we've tried to clean these up in the past, different DMB members have had different opinions on what the answer should be
[19:17] <rafaeldtinoco> that part is the one I still have to work on
[19:18] <ddstreet> so with this example, was it wrong for me to add jackd2 to ubuntustudio packageset?
[19:18] <ddstreet> because that would break some other packageset?
[19:18] <rafaeldtinoco> so with that example
[19:18] <rbasak> I think for now we have to just keep adding exceptions case-by-case, and longer term it'd be nice to specify what the behaviour should be and then start adjusting the tooling to head towards that goal.
[19:18] <rafaeldtinoco> for all previous versions .. doing by hand was correct (because we are not automatically updating those).
[19:18] <rafaeldtinoco> for groovy .. the correct thing was to put it as an exception.. so instead of "server" it would be "ubuntustudio" in the next automatic generation changes
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> an email would be sent to us saying that it was about to add the source package (jackd2) to ubuntustudio
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> we would not complain and the changes would be committed
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: yes
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> i want to put what we have "in production"
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> and read the batch better
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> and document what it does (with germinate output)
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> and we can maybe discuss
[19:19] <ddstreet> so our packageset list doesn't include 'hidden' packagesets like 'server'? https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/packagesets/groovy/
[19:20] <ddstreet> or do you mean 'ubuntu-server'
[19:20] <rbasak> ddstreet: a consequence of manually adjusting an automatic packageset is that the next time the tooling is run, it might try to undo what you did, and then the person running it has to either go with it or code up an exception. Sometimes that's hard to do. The alternatives are to fix the tooling before making the adjustment, or to leave the uploader stuck without the packageset change. None of
[19:20] <rbasak> these options are good :-/
[19:20] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/H4GBJFYpNK/
[19:20] <ddstreet> right, i was clear that my addition of jackd2 might be undone later, which is why i added the follow-up in the agenda to see if the seed update was all that's needed
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> the jackd2 case I'll re-check
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> actually
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> I replied to you on that already
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> right ?
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> (just checking)
[19:21] <rbasak> ddstreet: yeah and to be clear I'm fine with your approach.
[19:21] <ddstreet> ok, maybe it's just me who doesn't see the link between the seeds and packagesets, i'm hoping to get a clearer picture once the tooling is documented...
[19:22] <ddstreet> maybe i should just read the existing tooling now
[19:22] <ddstreet> well, not *now*, but i mean before refactoring
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps)
[19:22] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco add jackd2 as an exception (from ubuntu-server to audio-plugins perhaps)
[19:22] <rbasak> In the case that a package is only seeded from one place, it'll end up in the corresponding automatic packageset if there is one.
[19:22] <rbasak> If it's seeded from more than one place, then the tooling has various logic to try and resolve it.
[19:22] <rbasak> That's the extent of my knowledge :)
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> yes
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: said correctly
[19:23] <rbasak> (and when I say seed, I probably mean germinate - it doesn't matter whether the package is directly or indirectly seeded)
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> there are some decisions made to see where the package will stay (and now it even reads the pkg dependencies)
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> this part was made by iain in last change
[19:24] <rafaeldtinoco> im about to enter that batch code now =)
[19:24] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: let me document something "quick" for the next meeting
[19:24] <rafaeldtinoco> "what to do instead of edit-acl for -devel"
[19:24] <rafaeldtinoco> - guaranteeing seed is good
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> - editing exceptions file and commiting
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> - waiting pkgset auto re-generation
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> type of thing
[19:25] <ddstreet> +1 would definitely help me
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel
[19:25] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab)
[19:25] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco to put pkgset tooling to automatically update pkgsets (crontab)
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> ok
[19:26] <rafaeldtinoco> that was it on my side for this #)
[19:26] <Laney> YEAHHHHH
[19:26] <rafaeldtinoco> =)
[19:26] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: should I move on to TB bugs ?
[19:26] <ddstreet> sure
[19:26] <rafaeldtinoco> #topic Open TB bugs
[19:26] <Laney> The idea is that flavour developers get to maintain their own stuff, btw, and 'their own stuff' is defined as the things in their flavour, i.e. what they seed
[19:27]  * Laney runs
[19:27] <rafaeldtinoco> Laney: +1 and dont go to far
[19:27] <rafaeldtinoco> Packageset modification for ~ubuntu-mate-uploaders
[19:27] <rafaeldtinoco> @ddstreet fix released ^
[19:27] <ddstreet> yep
[19:27] <ddstreet> though
[19:28] <rafaeldtinoco> I have a question about this
[19:28] <ddstreet> just for my own info, should the devel release have been done differently?
[19:28] <ddstreet> (or any of it)
[19:28] <rafaeldtinoco> devel should be done automatically (through seed updates -> pkgset changes OR by exceptions file being changed)
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> ah for this change
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> no
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> sorry, this is just a permission change
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> right ? from person to the team
[19:29] <ddstreet> i think just uploader change is totally separate from the tooling, right?
[19:29] <ddstreet> yep
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> that is the exact question I have
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> who defined we would start creating the teams ?
[19:29] <rafaeldtinoco> i mean, is there anything we should follow ?
[19:30] <rafaeldtinoco> (start creating dev groups with dmb permissions)
[19:30] <ddstreet> there's some docs in the kb
[19:30] <ddstreet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase
[19:30] <rafaeldtinoco> because this change gives DMB the power to add/remove people from pkgsets
[19:31] <ddstreet> yep
[19:31] <rafaeldtinoco> should we do this ad-hoc like you're doing ?
[19:31] <rafaeldtinoco> or try to guarantee all pkgsets have their respective devel group ?
[19:32]  * rbasak doesn't follow
[19:32] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: last changes coming from ddstreet
[19:32] <rafaeldtinoco> like this
[19:32] <rafaeldtinoco> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1881666
[19:32] <ddstreet> changing the ubuntu-mate packageset uploader from an individual to a team
[19:33] <ddstreet> note that this was the last 'flavor packageset' that *was not* set to team-uploader
[19:33] <ddstreet> so now, all the flavor packagesets have team uploaders
[19:33] <rafaeldtinoco> ah was it ?
[19:33] <rbasak> The main thing is that we own the team, and nobody else apart from the DMB can change its membership
[19:33] <rafaeldtinoco> ok.. so my question is dead
[19:33] <rbasak> That seems correct
[19:33] <ddstreet> rbasak so team members can't add other members?
[19:33] <rbasak> There's also the stuff about ~ubuntu-dev vs. ~ubuntu-upladers which is covered in the docs I think?
[19:33] <rbasak> Correct
[19:34] <rbasak> That can be done with a delegation, but the team must explicitly have that
[19:34] <ddstreet> we should make sure not to add anyone to an uploader team as 'administrator' though, right?
[19:34] <rbasak> Right
[19:34] <ddstreet> unless they have a delegation
[19:34] <ddstreet> ack
[19:34] <rafaeldtinoco> hum.
[19:34] <rafaeldtinoco> that is new to me, will have to read
[19:35] <ddstreet> rbasak rafaeldtinoco note that i did update the dmb kb with some clarification steps
[19:35] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: tku, ill read it carefully
[19:35] <ddstreet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase?action=diff&rev2=33&rev1=27
[19:35] <ddstreet> or just check the 'info' tab to select diffs
[19:35] <rafaeldtinoco> cool
[19:35] <ddstreet> i think everything i added is correct, but please do correct anything as needed
[19:35] <rbasak> Delegations documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation
[19:36] <rafaeldtinoco> alright, got homework on this
[19:36] <rafaeldtinoco> anything else on this discussion ?
[19:36] <ddstreet> we should link the teamdelegation from our kb page
[19:36] <ddstreet> if it isn't already
[19:37] <rafaeldtinoco> #action rafaeldtinoco link teamdelegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates
[19:37] <meetingology> ACTION: rafaeldtinoco link teamdelegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates
[19:37] <rafaeldtinoco> ill do it since I'll read it again
[19:37] <ddstreet> thanks
[19:37] <rafaeldtinoco> #topic PPU addition for ~alkisg
[19:37] <rafaeldtinoco> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1881653
[19:37] <rafaeldtinoco> fix released also ^
[19:38] <ddstreet> yep
[19:38] <rafaeldtinoco> do I have to check groovy for this one ?
[19:38] <rafaeldtinoco> ah it was permission only
[19:38] <rafaeldtinoco> nm
[19:38] <rafaeldtinoco> ppu, ok moving on
[19:39] <ddstreet> right, and next one is ppu also i think
[19:39] <rafaeldtinoco> #topic PPU addition for ~rcj
[19:39] <rafaeldtinoco> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1866679
[19:39] <rafaeldtinoco> fix released also
[19:39] <ddstreet> yep, and while the tb bug doesn't list groovy, i am pretty sure he already had ppu for groovy
[19:39] <rafaeldtinoco> cool
[19:40] <rafaeldtinoco> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
[19:40] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: can u chair the next one ?
[19:40] <rafaeldtinoco> you're the next on the list
[19:41] <rafaeldtinoco> I can change it later if you can't
[19:41] <rafaeldtinoco> #topic Any other business
[19:41] <rafaeldtinoco> ok..
[19:41] <rafaeldtinoco> any other stuff to be discussed ?
[19:42] <ddstreet> nothing else from me
[19:42] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: sure
[19:42] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: tku
[19:42] <rafaeldtinoco> ok.. im calling it in ... 5
[19:42] <rafaeldtinoco> 4
[19:42] <rafaeldtinoco> 3
[19:42] <slashd> Just as an fyi ... I'll need to catch up on the current todo, but I'm back after a few weeks of absence.
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> slashd: welcome back =)
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> slashd: you will be chairing after rbasak
[19:43] <ddstreet> glad to have you back slashd :)
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> fyio
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> 3
[19:43] <slashd> rafaeldtinoco: no problem for the chairing order
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> 2
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> 1
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> #endmeeting
[19:43] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 15 19:43:46 2020 UTC.
[19:43] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-06-15-18.59.moin.txt
[19:43] <slashd> \o
[19:43] <rafaeldtinoco> thank you everyone !
[19:44] <rafaeldtinoco> have a nice evening!
[19:44] <ddstreet> thanks! o/