[01:27] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[04:37] <M_aD> morning
=== kostkon_ is now known as kostkon
[06:22] <ducasse> good morning
[17:51]  * M_aD found some cd's of Ubuntu 7.04, 8.04, 8.10 and 9.04
[17:54] <joelcrump> they must be old if they fit on a cd
[17:54] <M_aD> joelcrump: those were the days
[17:55] <joelcrump> win10 won't even fit on a single layer dvd anymore.. but linux will :)
[17:55] <M_aD> and memory usage with Gnome 2 on a 32 bit system was 195 to 200 MB
[17:55] <joelcrump> hmm wow
[17:55] <M_aD> after loadding the desktop
[17:56] <daftykins> actually the UK flavour win 10 does, it seems the US one is 1GB larger though
[17:56] <joelcrump> oh?
[17:57] <joelcrump> interesting
[17:57] <daftykins> but... optical media in 2020? i'd fall asleep during boot ;D
[17:57] <joelcrump> yeah i keep saying i'm gonna buy a usb drive but i have a whole stack of dvd5s that i want to use up
[17:57] <joelcrump> and since i'm not running win10 anymore i can
[17:58] <daftykins> i have dozens of flash drives with various OS installs or tools that i have on hand in my backpack when out and about at clients premises
[18:02] <joelcrump> the last win10 build i burned to a disk was 1809 (not surprisingly since that happened to be the build that deleted people's data and had other flaws that linux doesn't have)
[18:04] <daftykins> there have in fact been similar dramas reported in 'buntu's upgrade history, but try not to buy into these ramblings - it's just what passes for so called tech 'journalism' today
[18:05] <joelcrump> well no one's asking for perfection, but these issues with win10 are just bonkers to me
[18:05] <daftykins> the vast majority don't get any issues at all, but it's cool to rag on issues and spread the ol' finger pointing, so it persists
[18:05] <joelcrump> i mean 1809 didn't delete my data (i didn't even keep hardly anything in my user folder in the first place anyway), but i found other flaws
[18:08] <daftykins> overall i'm definitely not a fan of the new model, but it's definitely daft what people believe from reading pieces online
[18:10] <joelcrump> if you mean regarding win10, it's true that it's a subset of users, but how can i be assured i'm not part of that?
[18:11] <daftykins> that will be true of every OS in the context of upgrades
[18:13] <joelcrump> that is true, but not one linux distro i've tried has had any significant problem and moreover they don't fix what isn't broken.. that's what i see win10 doing in recent times, take something that has nothing wrong with it and make it different and not as good as it was before
[18:13] <daftykins> so i take it you don't provide support, then? if you haven't seen upgrade issues
[18:14] <joelcrump> oh i'm not expert on linux, no
[18:15] <joelcrump> i just learn what i need to install and use
[18:15] <daftykins> oh i don't mean being an expert, just that i helped out in #ubuntu for over a decade and saw plenty of fail
[18:16] <daftykins> your claim that Linux is better off is... amusing shall we say :D
[18:16] <joelcrump> i will see what happens in october when i try the upgrade to 20.10, but even if it did mess up, i could just reinstall clean
[18:17] <joelcrump> i will make backups in case
[18:17] <daftykins> again, true of every OS
[18:17] <daftykins> will you learn anything by wiping and not fixing? no
[18:17] <joelcrump> if i could figure out how to fix it i would
[18:17] <daftykins> there would be no better time to start than when something goes wrong
[18:17] <joelcrump> that's true
[18:18] <daftykins> that decade of support i mention? i did that from Windows - i don't even use desktop Linux - only servers
[18:18] <joelcrump> oh i see
[18:18] <joelcrump> well i am using a windows irc client :)
[18:19] <daftykins> i SSH to a VM to use irssi with screen
[18:20] <joelcrump> i would find console irc clients to be chaotic, too long using mirc
[18:22] <daftykins> the only chaos would be visiting #ubuntu with one during troll o'clock
[18:22] <joelcrump> yeah when i was looking at the list of ubuntu channels i kinda thought this one would be more my interest
[18:24] <rfm> Some time ago ubuntu (maybe debian?) basically got rid of /[s]bin, putting everything in /usr/[s]bin and symlinking /[s]bin to usr/[s]bin.   Yet /[s]bin are still in the default PATH in /etc/environment.
[18:24] <daftykins> and?
[18:25] <rfm> It seems untidy, but the real question is: I already totally override the /etc/environment path in my .profile, anybody see any reason not to clean /[s]bin out of there?
[18:27] <rfm> This actually just bit me, because I wanted to find which package had a command in it so I did "dpkg -S `which <command>`' and which found it in /sbin but dpkg couldn't find /sbin/<command> (since it was in /usr/sbin)
[19:58] <Jordan_U> rfm: I can't think of any reason not to remove it myself.
[19:59] <Jordan_U> rfm: If you wanted to be cautious, you also just move it to be after /usr/{s,}bin/ in $PATH .
[20:29] <rfm> Jordan_U, in fact I see /usr/environment does just that, but my .profile didn't, so I shot myself in the foot.  I decided to be bold and take it out.
[20:31] <daftykins> had it persisted in the same form through upgrade(s)?
[20:35] <rfm> do you mean /etc/environment?  The one I checked was a recent fresh install.  My ~/.profile is the one I've been copying around from machine to machine since I changed from csh to ksh about 30 years ago...
[20:37] <daftykins> yeah i meant lingering ~ cruft