[06:06] <lordievader> Good morning
[13:31] <geosmile> does anyone have a good pointer to a systemd service that spins up docker compose / down?
[15:40] <DammitJim> someone in the office was just telling me that Ubuntu 16.04 LTS is end of life 04.2021
[15:40] <DammitJim> but then I reviewed the Ubuntu page and it says it's EOL in 2024
[15:40] <DammitJim> what kinda support does one get between 2021 and 2024?
[15:46] <xnox> DammitJim: most likely one will either need a free Ubuntu Advantage personal (free) or one of the paid tiers to access ESM (Extended Security Maintenance). Like one currently needs for 12.04 LTS and 14.04 LTS both of which are end of basic support. You can ask questions about Ubuntu Advantage in the live chat at https://buy.ubuntu.com/
[15:46] <xnox> DammitJim:  but that will be announced next year, as xenial is still currently supported.
[15:46] <DammitJim> ty
[15:48] <xnox> DammitJim:  we try to not use "EOL" anymore, and we try to instead use "End of Basic support" and "End of Extended Security Maintenance" because it is ambigious, 2021 vs 2024.
[15:48] <xnox> or well 2026
[15:49] <xnox> who knows what ESM offering for 16.04 will be.
[15:49] <DammitJim> si
[16:30] <RoyK> DammitJim: it's probably not much of a problem to upgrade it, though, depending on what it runs
[18:11] <DammitJim> how can I figure out if a certain package came from main or something else?
[18:11] <DammitJim> for example openjdk-8-jdk on Ubuntu 16
[18:11] <quadrathoch2> DammitJim apt policy <package>
[18:11] <DammitJim> ty
[18:11] <DammitJim> I don't know why I was thinking there was a webpage with that info
[18:11] <DammitJim> querying
[18:11] <quadrathoch2> you could use packages.ubuntu.com DammitJim ;)
[18:12] <quadrathoch2> but only if it's within the ubuntu repos
[18:12] <DammitJim> man, things get very weird... when upgrading the OS
[18:12] <quadrathoch2> DammitJim oO what specifically?
[18:12] <DammitJim> because it almost forces you to update your applications to support the version that is in main for the OS you are going to
[18:13] <DammitJim> so, we have servers that run applications written in java and go on tomcat
[18:13] <DammitJim> so, for example, we have Ubuntu 16 servers with tomcat 7 and openjdk 8
[18:13] <DammitJim> if I upgrade to Ubuntu 18 because Ubuntu 16 is EOS 04.2020
[18:14] <DammitJim> then it sounds like I won't get support for installing/keeping openjdk 8 and tomcat 7 because those aren't coming from main
[18:14] <DammitJim> does that make sense?
[18:14] <quadrathoch2> yup :) DammitJim
[18:14] <DammitJim> gotta keep up with tech, I guess
[18:15] <quadrathoch2> DammitJim yeah, tech is really fast in comparison to anything else
[18:15] <quadrathoch2> advancing
[18:15] <DammitJim> I might just have to run the outdated OS...
[18:16] <DammitJim> actually, I wonder what is worse... I think I loose either way
[18:16] <DammitJim> or pay for support, I guess
[18:16] <quadrathoch2> support _should_ not be too expensive
[18:16] <DammitJim> it adds up, though
[18:17] <quadrathoch2> in comparison to what?
[18:17] <DammitJim> 100 VMs @ $100 a pop per year
[18:18] <DammitJim> I don't have $10k laying around
[18:18] <DammitJim> I better start cracking the whip and get the devs updating their applications
[18:20] <quadrathoch2> yes, but imho when having a 100 VMs you probably (as a company) already earn more/have more revenue, where it should be possible to pay it (I mean or you could get more devs who update the software)
[18:20] <DammitJim> yeah, you know how it is... it's not my money, it's the president's
[18:20] <DammitJim> maybe the problem I have is that I haven't been moving fast enough telling devs to get off java 8
[18:21] <quadrathoch2> probably, as it's already 6 years old
[18:22] <quadrathoch2> and already out of support (at least commercial from oracle)
[18:22] <DammitJim> well, Ubuntu support java 8 since it's in main for Ubuntu 16
[18:22] <DammitJim> there's a fine balance
[18:23] <quadrathoch2> yup :) I know, just saying that upstream support is eol.
[22:57] <dasjoe> I've done debootstrapped root-on-ZFS server installs for what, 7? years by now, although I have no experience with zsys either
[22:58] <sarnold> dasjoe: wow
[23:02] <dasjoe> sarnold, long time no see :-)
[23:03] <sarnold> dasjoe: indeed, it's been ages :) how are you doing?
[23:03] <dasjoe> I found some of my notes about how to get an installation similar to Ubuntu Server on ZFS, https://gist.github.com/dasjoe/09ecf8190c523bf7a7dc
[23:05] <dasjoe> sarnold, I'm fine! Just a bit busy all the time, so I "kind of forgot about" IRC for a while. I was cleaning up some stuff and stumbled upon my client again. How are you?
[23:06] <sarnold> dasjoe: I can relate to most of that, hehe :) too busy, too little time, but happy to be gainfully employed at home, you know? :)
[23:07] <sarnold> dasjoe: here's hoping you'll remember your client more often :)
[23:08] <sarnold> dasjoe: five years ago .. installing the wily hwe kernel. man.
[23:11] <dasjoe> sarnold, I've set it to autostart when I login, so there's that :-) Yeah, I'm enjoying my last week off. Past few months have been quite stressful with everybody working from home and my team having to fix not only our office stuff but home networks, too :-)
[23:12] <dasjoe> sarnold, yeah, the gist even contains some hacks for grub like enabling only some feature flags and symlinking ZFS partitions into /dev/ so grub can find them
[23:13] <dasjoe> sarnold, also, BIOS only, no UEFI grub. Times were simpler!
[23:14] <sarnold> dasjoe: hah, and at the moment I'm composing a knowledge base thing for folks booting ith legacy / bios etc and busted grub installs...
[23:14] <sarnold> dasjoe: .. at the moment, uefi is feeling simpler in many ways :)
[23:15] <sarnold> dasjoe: how long did you have off?
[23:15] <dasjoe> sarnold, well, I'm sadly no longer too involved with ZFS as of now. My laptop's root filesystem is NTFS ;-)
[23:16] <sarnold> a swedish pal is lamenting the end of his month off .. actuall I htink he returns tomorrow
[23:16] <sarnold> dasjoe: *gasp*
[23:16] <sarnold> dasjoe: actually, I'm thinking of buying a windows myself, MS flightsim is looking pretty good..
[23:19] <dasjoe> sarnold, I uninstalled Outlook and RocketChat on July 17th, so it's three and a half weeks in total. Originally we wanted to have a real vacation - as in travel somewhere for a week or so - oh well
[23:20] <sarnold> dasjoe: yeah :(
[23:20] <sarnold> I love the "uninstall" though :) hahaha
[23:22] <dasjoe> sarnold, yes! Uninstalled everything at around 23:50 on that friday, so I'm really out of the loop about what's happening in the office right now. We still have no on-call rotation, so I had to explain again and again how I'm not reachable for anybody in any case
[23:24] <sarnold> dasjoe: more than once I've heard of folks using 'vacation time' to get work done.. without being bothered by co-workers
[23:26] <dasjoe> sarnold, I found it easier to ignore bothering requests working from home, we could actually focus on some problems or do some research for once :-)
[23:29] <sarnold> dasjoe: yay :D I do imagine we're going to see more work-from-home..
[23:30] <dasjoe> sarnold, still, I'm thnking about looking for a job at a real remote company instead of "remote-first"-as-long-as-it-suits-us, especially now that my family and I established methods and rules for me working from home
[23:31] <sarnold> dasjoe: oooo good luck :D
[23:33] <dasjoe> So I'm browsing through SRE jobs every few weeks. As of now my short commute (a 5 minute walk) and okay-ish compensation is what's keeping me there. Better compensation with no commute would be nice to have, but I can't really complain