| Scary_Guy | I saw the 0 downtime server on HN, was a good read. I liked the comment about the frozen server with a stuck fan that the guy greased with mayo from his sandwich he got along the way to fix it. | 01:28 |
|---|---|---|
| Scary_Guy | Also this is the part where I complain about not using old.reddit.com for the link. I do have a plugin to redirect such links though so not a huge deal. | 01:29 |
| jrwren | lul | 02:58 |
| rick_h | jrwren: that post misses the delaying of updates, the fact that we had broken apt updates to grub for a day last week that rendered systems unbootable, anyway, pick your poison. It all breaks eventually heh | 14:54 |
| cmaloney | I thought that how Canonical handled the grub2 breakage was quite good | 14:55 |
| cmaloney | I'm also grateful that I wasn't bit by it | 14:55 |
| jrwren | which post? | 14:55 |
| rick_h | sorry, the snap refresh one | 14:56 |
| * rick_h doesn't look at irc as much as he should since work moved to mattermost | 14:56 | |
| jrwren | from weeks ago? | 14:56 |
| rick_h | oh, was it weeks? It's like 10 lines up in the history lol | 14:56 |
| jrwren | oh, July 31, so just 1 week | 14:56 |
| rick_h | it says -- Wed, 05 Aug 2020 (Fri, 31 Jul 2020) -- | 14:56 |
| rick_h | so guess I thought it was yesterday but maybe it was before that | 14:57 |
| jrwren | It was Friday. | 14:57 |
| rick_h | weechat date confusion fail | 14:57 |
| jrwren | :) | 14:57 |
| jrwren | It would be cool if there was an update setting that ignored security issues of local priv escalation. | 14:58 |
| cmaloney | Mattermost fail. :) | 14:58 |
| jrwren | if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I dno't need any updates except remote compromise. | 14:58 |
| jrwren | but... *shrug* | 14:58 |
| jrwren | use of containers basically mitigates all of this. | 14:58 |
| cmaloney | I think the main reason I'm not a fan of snaps is it's a developer deciding what's important to me | 14:58 |
| jrwren | the issue gets pushed to whatever runs the OS that runs the containers :) | 14:58 |
| rick_h | ? that's basically what snaps are | 14:58 |
| cmaloney | rather than me deciding what is important to me | 14:58 |
| jrwren | WAT? | 14:59 |
| rick_h | snaps are basically containers with isolation of the workload, libs, etc. I guess if we're not talking about --classic (e.g. dangerous) snaps | 14:59 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: I mean... the devs who push to a PPA are deciding what is important to you too. | 14:59 |
| rick_h | right, there's always someone else in control | 14:59 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: True, but I can also pin a version if I want | 14:59 |
| cmaloney | I get final say on this | 15:00 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: you can also build yourself if you want to, and checkout the source and build previous versoins... can't do that with snap | 15:00 |
| cmaloney | You're making my point for me. :) | 15:00 |
| rick_h | bah, can't find popey's post | 15:00 |
| rick_h | why can't you build your own snap and sideload? | 15:00 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: your are welcome | 15:00 |
| cmaloney | how do I build Chrome? | 15:01 |
| cmaloney | or Scribus? | 15:01 |
| cmaloney | (Scribus is a bad example) | 15:01 |
| cmaloney | Skype? | 15:01 |
| jrwren | oh, snap has a lot of the technical ability, but in practice with teh way teh store is setup... the answer is far too often "can't" | 15:01 |
| jrwren | or the trade-off isn't worth it | 15:02 |
| cmaloney | I'm sure there's a version of tootstream out there when Canonical had the big push to snap all the things | 15:02 |
| cmaloney | and it hasn't been maintained in two years | 15:02 |
| cmaloney | but it'll be offered to someone at some point | 15:02 |
| jrwren | if it works for some people and increases their productivity, then good. | 15:04 |
| jrwren | I only know it is not for me. | 15:04 |
| jrwren | It is kinda like cocaine or amphetemines. | 15:04 |
| jrwren | is sideloaded snaps how all the openstack snaps are being used? | 15:06 |
| jrwren | or is juju openstack not snap by default yet? | 15:06 |
| jrwren | or juju k8s? | 15:07 |
| cmaloney | I mean, I think snaps are a good idea, but the implementation rubs me the wrong way | 15:07 |
| jrwren | well, which part is a good idea? | 15:07 |
| jrwren | I'm not convinced, because IMO they do nothing that couldn't also be done with debs. | 15:07 |
| cmaloney | containerized runtime for certain applications | 15:07 |
| cmaloney | and yes | 15:07 |
| cmaloney | I'm happier with PPAs than snaps by a country mile | 15:08 |
| jrwren | oh... are snaps actually run in namespaces now? because "container" could mean just a chroot, like snap, or it could be namespaced | 15:08 |
| cmaloney | I thought snaps were akin to LXC with privileges | 15:08 |
| cmaloney | but me being confused is more likely | 15:08 |
| jrwren | with systemd's support for containers, its almost trivial to containerize an app in one way or nother. | 15:09 |
| jrwren | i've not followed snaps for a few yrs. maybe they are now. but previously i dno't think they were namespaced, just chrooted | 15:09 |
| cmaloney | honestly appimage also seems like the way to go for hoary applications | 15:09 |
| cmaloney | kinda like Apple's applications | 15:09 |
| jrwren | yup. | 15:10 |
| jrwren | debs already had/has that in a large part with chrome deb as an example | 15:10 |
| jrwren | its own TLS, its own SQLite | 15:10 |
| jrwren | complete exception to the Debian philosophy, and that is OK IMO. | 15:10 |
| jrwren | you have to draw the line on what is your platform. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | for me, for many years that line has been linux+glibc, anything outside of that I've always considered part of my app, I have to be VERY aware of those dependencies. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | the mixing of those deps is always what a distro has solved. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | we are learning or have learned varying ways to solve it, but haven't gone the full macos - ship your own - the platform deps are much smaller, just yet. | 15:12 |
| cmaloney | I've not looked at Chrome's .deb, so that is interesting | 15:12 |
| jrwren | oh yeah, take a look. | 15:12 |
| jrwren | their own.... LOTS of things. | 15:12 |
| cmaloney | Makes sense | 15:12 |
| jrwren | many of the libs statically linked, separate from the system shipped versions of the same thing. | 15:12 |
| jrwren | This is a large part of why I dislike snap so much. It is based on a lie that it is too difficult to package this and that, and other debs are the example. It is too difficult if you go full debian-standard no duplicate libraries, but if you ignore that and ship your own dep libs, it is far less difficult. | 15:15 |
| cmaloney | it feels like an end-run around Docker | 15:16 |
| cmaloney | without any of the "advantages" of Docker | 15:16 |
| cmaloney | Honestly I'm taking the "wait until it passes" approach | 15:17 |
| jrwren | same. no reason to adopt unless there are clear benefits. | 15:17 |
| cmaloney | I think LXC is brilliant. Snaps? Less so. | 15:17 |
| jrwren | lxc was brilliant until it became snap only. :p | 15:17 |
| cmaloney | eh? | 15:17 |
| jrwren | the best version of docker is podman. | 15:17 |
| jrwren | :) | 15:17 |
| cmaloney | Oh, right. I'm still living in the past so lxc is not snaps for me. :) | 15:18 |
| jrwren | apt install lxc just installs the snap. | 15:18 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, screw that | 15:18 |
| cmaloney | I'll go with Vagrant then | 15:18 |
| cmaloney | for me LXC occupies the same space as Vagrant | 15:18 |
| cmaloney | and if LXC becomes less fun to use then Vagrant then LXC loses. | 15:19 |
| jrwren | ugh, so heavy weight. | 15:20 |
| jrwren | what is that hashi deploy tool. I hear they target some varying container solutions now. | 15:20 |
| cmaloney | not sure | 15:22 |
| cmaloney | and yeah, VirtualBox is a bit heavy. That's why I ported one of my processes to lxc | 15:23 |
| jrwren | i need vim help! how to replace characters in a subs? | 18:08 |
| jrwren | s/ ../prefix\1suffix/ what should \1 be there? | 18:08 |
| cmaloney | what are you looking to do? | 18:11 |
| jrwren | bah, I guess I can do it with multiple s/ commands. | 18:17 |
| jrwren | i wanted to take teh `2d 2d 2d 00 0a` style output from hexdump and... why didn't i just use sed??? | 18:18 |
| jrwren | hrm... i'm not sure how to do it with sed either. lol. | 18:19 |
| jrwren | doesn't matter, I used vim and a few s/ commands. | 18:19 |
| jrwren | oh... i wanted to take `2d 2d 2d 00 0a` style output from hexdump and turn it into a Go byte literal, so add 0x prefix and , suffix. => `0x2d, 0x2d, 0x2d, 0x00, 0x0a` | 18:20 |
| cmaloney | Ah, neat | 18:50 |
| cmaloney | yeah, I'm not sure how to do that without programming something | 18:50 |
| jrwren | your reply now 30min later made me try again... | 18:57 |
| jrwren | i didn't escape the () to create a backref, cuz vim. | 18:57 |
| jrwren | :s/ \(..\)/0x\1,/g works | 18:58 |
| cmaloney | <3 | 19:20 |
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