[01:28] I saw the 0 downtime server on HN, was a good read. I liked the comment about the frozen server with a stuck fan that the guy greased with mayo from his sandwich he got along the way to fix it. [01:29] Also this is the part where I complain about not using old.reddit.com for the link. I do have a plugin to redirect such links though so not a huge deal. [02:58] lul [14:54] jrwren: that post misses the delaying of updates, the fact that we had broken apt updates to grub for a day last week that rendered systems unbootable, anyway, pick your poison. It all breaks eventually heh [14:55] I thought that how Canonical handled the grub2 breakage was quite good [14:55] I'm also grateful that I wasn't bit by it [14:55] which post? [14:56] sorry, the snap refresh one [14:56] * rick_h doesn't look at irc as much as he should since work moved to mattermost [14:56] from weeks ago? [14:56] oh, was it weeks? It's like 10 lines up in the history lol [14:56] oh, July 31, so just 1 week [14:56] it says -- Wed, 05 Aug 2020 (Fri, 31 Jul 2020) -- [14:57] so guess I thought it was yesterday but maybe it was before that [14:57] It was Friday. [14:57] weechat date confusion fail [14:57] :) [14:58] It would be cool if there was an update setting that ignored security issues of local priv escalation. [14:58] Mattermost fail. :) [14:58] if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I dno't need any updates except remote compromise. [14:58] but... *shrug* [14:58] use of containers basically mitigates all of this. [14:58] I think the main reason I'm not a fan of snaps is it's a developer deciding what's important to me [14:58] the issue gets pushed to whatever runs the OS that runs the containers :) [14:58] ? that's basically what snaps are [14:58] rather than me deciding what is important to me [14:59] WAT? [14:59] snaps are basically containers with isolation of the workload, libs, etc. I guess if we're not talking about --classic (e.g. dangerous) snaps [14:59] cmaloney: I mean... the devs who push to a PPA are deciding what is important to you too. [14:59] right, there's always someone else in control [14:59] jrwren: True, but I can also pin a version if I want [15:00] I get final say on this [15:00] cmaloney: you can also build yourself if you want to, and checkout the source and build previous versoins... can't do that with snap [15:00] You're making my point for me. :) [15:00] bah, can't find popey's post [15:00] why can't you build your own snap and sideload? [15:00] cmaloney: your are welcome [15:01] how do I build Chrome? [15:01] or Scribus? [15:01] (Scribus is a bad example) [15:01] Skype? [15:01] oh, snap has a lot of the technical ability, but in practice with teh way teh store is setup... the answer is far too often "can't" [15:02] or the trade-off isn't worth it [15:02] I'm sure there's a version of tootstream out there when Canonical had the big push to snap all the things [15:02] and it hasn't been maintained in two years [15:02] but it'll be offered to someone at some point [15:04] if it works for some people and increases their productivity, then good. [15:04] I only know it is not for me. [15:04] It is kinda like cocaine or amphetemines. [15:06] is sideloaded snaps how all the openstack snaps are being used? [15:06] or is juju openstack not snap by default yet? [15:07] or juju k8s? [15:07] I mean, I think snaps are a good idea, but the implementation rubs me the wrong way [15:07] well, which part is a good idea? [15:07] I'm not convinced, because IMO they do nothing that couldn't also be done with debs. [15:07] containerized runtime for certain applications [15:07] and yes [15:08] I'm happier with PPAs than snaps by a country mile [15:08] oh... are snaps actually run in namespaces now? because "container" could mean just a chroot, like snap, or it could be namespaced [15:08] I thought snaps were akin to LXC with privileges [15:08] but me being confused is more likely [15:09] with systemd's support for containers, its almost trivial to containerize an app in one way or nother. [15:09] i've not followed snaps for a few yrs. maybe they are now. but previously i dno't think they were namespaced, just chrooted [15:09] honestly appimage also seems like the way to go for hoary applications [15:09] kinda like Apple's applications [15:10] yup. [15:10] debs already had/has that in a large part with chrome deb as an example [15:10] its own TLS, its own SQLite [15:10] complete exception to the Debian philosophy, and that is OK IMO. [15:11] you have to draw the line on what is your platform. [15:11] for me, for many years that line has been linux+glibc, anything outside of that I've always considered part of my app, I have to be VERY aware of those dependencies. [15:11] the mixing of those deps is always what a distro has solved. [15:12] we are learning or have learned varying ways to solve it, but haven't gone the full macos - ship your own - the platform deps are much smaller, just yet. [15:12] I've not looked at Chrome's .deb, so that is interesting [15:12] oh yeah, take a look. [15:12] their own.... LOTS of things. [15:12] Makes sense [15:12] many of the libs statically linked, separate from the system shipped versions of the same thing. [15:15] This is a large part of why I dislike snap so much. It is based on a lie that it is too difficult to package this and that, and other debs are the example. It is too difficult if you go full debian-standard no duplicate libraries, but if you ignore that and ship your own dep libs, it is far less difficult. [15:16] it feels like an end-run around Docker [15:16] without any of the "advantages" of Docker [15:17] Honestly I'm taking the "wait until it passes" approach [15:17] same. no reason to adopt unless there are clear benefits. [15:17] I think LXC is brilliant. Snaps? Less so. [15:17] lxc was brilliant until it became snap only. :p [15:17] eh? [15:17] the best version of docker is podman. [15:17] :) [15:18] Oh, right. I'm still living in the past so lxc is not snaps for me. :) [15:18] apt install lxc just installs the snap. [15:18] Yeah, screw that [15:18] I'll go with Vagrant then [15:18] for me LXC occupies the same space as Vagrant [15:19] and if LXC becomes less fun to use then Vagrant then LXC loses. [15:20] ugh, so heavy weight. [15:20] what is that hashi deploy tool. I hear they target some varying container solutions now. [15:22] not sure [15:23] and yeah, VirtualBox is a bit heavy. That's why I ported one of my processes to lxc [18:08] i need vim help! how to replace characters in a subs? [18:08] s/ ../prefix\1suffix/ what should \1 be there? [18:11] what are you looking to do? [18:17] bah, I guess I can do it with multiple s/ commands. [18:18] i wanted to take teh `2d 2d 2d 00 0a` style output from hexdump and... why didn't i just use sed??? [18:19] hrm... i'm not sure how to do it with sed either. lol. [18:19] doesn't matter, I used vim and a few s/ commands. [18:20] oh... i wanted to take `2d 2d 2d 00 0a` style output from hexdump and turn it into a Go byte literal, so add 0x prefix and , suffix. => `0x2d, 0x2d, 0x2d, 0x00, 0x0a` [18:50] Ah, neat [18:50] yeah, I'm not sure how to do that without programming something [18:57] your reply now 30min later made me try again... [18:57] i didn't escape the () to create a backref, cuz vim. [18:58] :s/ \(..\)/0x\1,/g works [19:20] <3