[18:58] <ddstreet> o/
[18:58] <sil2100> o/
[18:58] <rbasak> o/
[18:59] <rafaeldtinoco> o/
[19:01] <sil2100> Guess that's a quorum, I think it's my  time to chair, right?
[19:01] <rafaeldtinoco> Upcoming: Łukasz, Teward, Rafael, Dan, Robie, Eric <wrap>
[19:01] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[19:01] <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[19:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Aug 10 19:01:50 2020 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:02] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[19:02] <sil2100> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco to check edubuntu seed <-> pkgset relationship (generation) and if edubuntu pkgsets can be dropped (carried over)
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> I think this is duplicated
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: ^ did you have this also ?
[19:02] <rafaeldtinoco> (last item)
[19:03] <sil2100> Ah, indeed
[19:03] <ddstreet> rafaeldtinoco yeah i think that's a new one on my action list
[19:03] <sil2100> ddstreet: any progress? Or should we carry over?
[19:03] <ddstreet> new from last mtg
[19:03] <ddstreet> no progress sorry, plz carry over
[19:04] <sil2100> Ok then
[19:04] <sil2100> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco to create, for now, a small "what-to-do" for pkgset changes in -devel (document exceptions inclusion for DMB team) (carried over)
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/SeedsAndAutomatedPkgsets
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> and its a Makefile now
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> this is the "quick what to do"
[19:04] <rafaeldtinoco> it will get better (as the long standing item)
[19:05] <rafaeldtinoco> for now you can consider done
[19:05] <sil2100> Ok, thanks! I'll have to read that up - today I quickly wanted to use it but it errored out when I tried running `make fetch`
[19:05] <rafaeldtinoco> just ping me
[19:05] <sil2100> But I didn't look into the details, need to try again
[19:05] <rafaeldtinoco> sure thing
[19:05] <sil2100> I was too busy with pointy-release stuff
[19:06] <sil2100> #subtopic rafaeldtinoco link team delegation from dmb kb page when reading ddstreet updates (carried over)
[19:06] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: nicely done - thanks!
[19:06] <rbasak> Is that linked to from anywhere?
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> that is this item ^
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> and no, where should I like it ?
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> (it will get bigger and more detailed)
[19:06] <rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase is the general starting point for DMB-internal docs
[19:06] <rafaeldtinoco> ok
[19:06] <rbasak> (internal as in not relevant to anyone but active DMB members, but public of course)
[19:07] <rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: mark this as carried over then., it will be done next meeting
[19:07] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: tku
[19:07] <sil2100> Sure o/
[19:07] <ItzSwirlz> o/
[19:07] <sil2100> #subtopic DMB to vote at next mtg(s) on controlling the membership access for the OEM enablement metapackages
[19:08] <rbasak> I was distracted during the previous meeting, sorry.
[19:08] <rbasak> But AIUI, there's nothing being done here yet, except to define a packageset?
[19:08] <sil2100> Yeah, so I'm reading the previous meeting logs now
[19:09] <sil2100> I think we agreed that we would just be creating a packageset and delegating the management of those permissions to ubuntu-archive, correct?
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> As a first step towards making this self service for that team, I'd like
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> to ask the DMB to consider making a packageset for this purpose.
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> Initially it'll have no uploaders apart from ~ubuntu-core-dev, so we're
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> considering the set itself only right now.
[19:09] <sil2100> Is this something we should vote on?
[19:09] <rafaeldtinoco> this is the core part for now
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> we will have people applying for upload rights later
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> iirc
[19:10] <sil2100> Ok, so only voting on creating the packageset for now with core-dev as members, without team delegation?
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> i would set the team ready
[19:10] <rafaeldtinoco> just so we dont need AA later
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> this way we can manage permissions as they apply
[19:11] <rbasak> Create a team maybe, and add only ~ubuntu-core-dev to it initially
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[19:11] <rafaeldtinoco> then we are good to go for applications
[19:12] <sil2100> Do we want to define the initial packageset contents formally?
[19:12] <rbasak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase#Personal_packagesets_and_glob_expansions is prior art for "glob-based" packagesets
[19:12] <rbasak> There, the formal packageset contents was defined in the packageset description using the glob pattern
[19:12] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> m tells me
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> that packageset permissions can be added if a source package exists
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> *anywhere* (i.e. in a PPA), not just in Ubuntu. So there would be a
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> script which enumerates a staging PPA and adds packages found there
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> which match the glob 'oem-*-meta' to the packageset.
[19:13] <sil2100> Yeah, so the glob here would be oem-*-meta
[19:13] <rafaeldtinoco> they want source packages to come automatically from a staging ppa
[19:13] <sil2100> Ok, so let me formulate the vote then
[19:13] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: I would prefer to require the glob to be driven from the archive, not from a PPA
[19:14] <rbasak> I'm not sure a packageset containing a package not in the archive would work anyway
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: what are the cons ?
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> ah i see
[19:14] <ddstreet> that was a concern for me also rbasak, driving the packageset from a ppa is essentially opening a backdoor into the archive
[19:14] <rbasak> It's confusing, because the DMB's remit relates to the archive only
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> you mean an upload for a source that we dont have
[19:14] <rafaeldtinoco> yep
[19:14] <rbasak> And also what ddstreet says
[19:14] <rbasak> The process would be:
[19:15] <rbasak> Get a core dev or MOTU sponsored upload into the archive
[19:15] <rbasak> Get an AA to do the NEW review
[19:15] <rbasak> Ask the DMB to run the script to update the packageset using the glob pattern
[19:15] <rbasak> In that order
[19:15] <sil2100> Are we ready to vote on the base part?
[19:16] <rafaeldtinoco> what is the NEW review ?
[19:16] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: ^
[19:16] <ddstreet> sil2100 is there specific wording that we're voting on now?
[19:16] <rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: I think we are all +1 on this, currently discussing the implementation
[19:17] <sil2100> #vote Creation of a new canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team for the glob expansion of oem-*-meta, initially having ~ubuntu-core-dev as the only member
[19:17] <meetingology> Please vote on: Creation of a new canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team for the glob expansion of oem-*-meta, initially having ~ubuntu-core-dev as the only member
[19:17] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[19:17] <sil2100> (we need a formal vote)
[19:17] <sil2100> Did I  get this right?
[19:18] <rbasak> +1 assuming that the glob expansion will be performed from archive packages only
[19:18] <meetingology> +1 assuming that the glob expansion will be performed from archive packages only received from rbasak
[19:18] <ddstreet> +1 for pkgset and team creation
[19:18] <meetingology> +1 for pkgset and team creation received from ddstreet
[19:18] <sil2100> +1
[19:18] <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
[19:18] <rafaeldtinoco> +1 for both
[19:18] <meetingology> +1 for both received from rafaeldtinoco
[19:18] <sil2100> #endvote
[19:18] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Creation of a new canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team for the glob expansion of oem-*-meta, initially having ~ubuntu-core-dev as the only member
[19:18] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[19:18] <meetingology> Motion carried
[19:18] <sil2100> Ok, motion carried, yes, we can proceed with implementation details
[19:18] <sil2100> ;)
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> sorry, had in my head this was already voted previously
[19:19] <rafaeldtinoco> thanks
[19:19] <ddstreet> i think at the last mtg we said it would be better to defer the specific pkgset operation to ubuntu-archive or ubuntu-sru team, is that right? and dmb would only manage team membership?
[19:19] <sil2100> I don't think it was, as the action item was to vote on it now
[19:20] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: we did say that
[19:20] <rafaeldtinoco> but never agreed
[19:20] <sil2100> Yeah
[19:20] <rafaeldtinoco> im thinking if that would be easier for them
[19:20] <ddstreet> i do agree with rbasak on the concerns around the implementation, but maybe that's best for a different team to work out?
[19:21] <rbasak> AIUI then, we'd define the glob expansion (ie. define the script that does the glob expansion) but ~ubuntu-archive or ~ubuntu-sru would actually run it?
[19:21] <rbasak> If that's considered useful, then sure
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> im ok with that
[19:21] <ddstreet> i'm ok either way
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: would that be a burden for the sru team ?
[19:21] <rafaeldtinoco> thinking on what would be best for all (SRU team and this new team)
[19:22] <sil2100> Same here, I don't think it's that much of a deal to actually need to be delegated though
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> if its just running a script
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> i can do it with the weekly pkgset
[19:22] <rbasak> The SRU team aren't used to managing packagesets or running recognising weird edge cases to run appropriate scripts
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> pkgset <-> seed sync
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> i can run both together
[19:22] <rafaeldtinoco> do we have a "production"  place
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> to land those things ?
[19:23] <rbasak> I'm not refusing to do it on behalf of the SRU team or anything, but I'm not sure it's going to be helpful. In practice it'll end up getting missed I think
[19:23] <sil2100> I'd say let's leave it under our control for now
[19:23] <ddstreet> sounds like rafaeldtinoco is taking an action item to add it to the tooling then? :)
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: that is understood
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: its ok for me.. i was just wondering
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> is my home the best place to run cron jobs ?
[19:23] <rbasak> I'm with sil2100. Let's leave it under our control for now.
[19:23] <rafaeldtinoco> should I deploy it somewhere ?
[19:23] <rbasak> We don't have a good place to cron it from
[19:24] <rafaeldtinoco> ok, it will continue here then
[19:24] <rbasak> We could start by just responding to a ping from an uploader who is stuck
[19:24] <rbasak> And then go from there
[19:24] <sil2100> Ok, let's put some action items
[19:24] <sil2100> Who wants to take the actual team and packageset creation?
[19:24] <rbasak> I'll take it
[19:24] <rafaeldtinoco> cool. i can do the scripting
[19:24] <rafaeldtinoco> and crontabing
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> if needed (or should we wait applicants first ?)
[19:25] <sil2100> #action rbasak to take care of the canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation
[19:25] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to take care of the canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation
[19:25] <sil2100> rbasak: guess it needs the TB, right?
[19:25] <sil2100> (I always forget)
[19:25] <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: personally I'd wait until managing it manually becomes painful
[19:25] <rbasak> But I have no objection if you want to run ahead with it
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> manually it is
[19:25] <rbasak> Yes - packageset creation will need the TB. We have a process for requesting that
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> so we can all get used to it
[19:25] <sil2100> I think we all have enough on our plates that it's best not to put additional scripting work ;)
[19:25] <rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: yes!
[19:26] <sil2100> Ok, I think we have this sorted out then
[19:26] <sil2100> #subtopic slashd to add Yaru to the desktop set for focal
[19:26] <sil2100> I don't think slashd is here with us today?
[19:26] <sil2100> Does anyone know if that is done?
[19:27] <ddstreet> looks like it's not done yet
[19:27] <ddstreet> and slashd is out today
[19:27] <sil2100> Ok, let's carry that one over then
[19:28] <sil2100> Last action item is a duplicate, and we discussed it already
[19:28] <sil2100> We have no applicants today, so let's move to AOB
[19:28] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[19:28] <sil2100> Anything to discuss otherwise?
[19:29] <sil2100> I take that as a no!
[19:30] <sil2100> Ok, I guess we can finish
[19:30] <sil2100> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting
[19:30] <sil2100> That would be Teward, but I guess he's not here today
[19:30] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[19:30] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Aug 10 19:30:47 2020 UTC.
[19:30] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-08-10-19.01.moin.txt
[19:30] <sil2100> Thanks everyone!
[19:30] <rafaeldtinoco> sil2100: tku!
[19:30] <ddstreet> thanks! o/
[19:30] <sil2100> I'll update the Agenda now
[19:30] <rafaeldtinoco> o/ everyone
[19:30] <ItzSwirlz> have a gn/good day
[19:31] <ItzSwirlz> o/
[19:31] <ItzSwirlz> Don't let the thunderstorms kill yall
[19:49] <teward> sil2100: nope not here because Hospital
[19:49] <teward> appendicitis
[19:50] <teward> they got the thing out but i am in recov until tomorrow
[19:50] <teward> still 'alive' barely though