[02:03] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:17] <marcoagpinto> Heya
[07:54] <ducasse> good morning
[07:59] <marcoagpinto> :)
[16:13] <croraf> Ubuntu Bionic (16.04) had "bionic linux-hwe" kernel flavors, which were like "advanced" kernels matching some of the latest mainline kernels?
[16:15] <oerheks> no, backported kernels from next release
[16:15] <oerheks> !hwe
[16:20] <croraf> oerheks, so each time the LTS "point" realese happens an "hwe" version is created?
[16:21] <oerheks> yes, when next Groovy 20.10 is released, HWE will be available
[16:21] <croraf> but i dont understand what is the difference, because the "regular" kernel is also updated
[16:22] <croraf> oerheks, and also the bionic linux is based on 4.13-4.15 mainline kernels
[16:23] <croraf> bionic linux-hwe is based on 4.18-5.3 mainline kernels
[16:23] <croraf> and bionic linux-hwe 5.0 is based on 5.0 mainline kernel
[16:24] <croraf> So there is no rule basically.
[16:25] <oerheks> don't look at the 'mainline stuff' ..
[16:25] <oerheks> those are for testing
[16:25] <croraf> OK. But for example bionic-linux has 4.13-4.15 ubuntu kernel version
[16:26] <croraf> bionic linux hwe has 4.18-5.3 and bionic linux hwe 5.0 has 5.0 versions
[16:26] <croraf> there is also hwe 5.4
[16:27] <croraf> So if I understood correctly each new point version comes with the new kernel "flavor"?
[16:27] <croraf> Like 16.04.1 came with hwe, 16.04.2 came with hwe 5.0, 16.04.3 came with hwe 5.4?
[16:27] <croraf> oerheks,
[16:33] <croraf> Actually from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=18.04.x+Ubuntu+Kernel+Support+Schedule.svg I see that:
[16:34] <Maik> croraf: after each new ubuntu release you should get a new kernel with HWE afaik
[16:34] <Maik> some time after that is
[16:35] <croraf> Hmmm, I dont think this is how it goes
[16:35] <Maik> say Ubuntu 20.10 will ship 5.7 or 5.8, you'll get that on the LTS release as update/upgrade
[16:36] <Maik> well... i don't know any different way it should go
[16:36] <Maik> i could be mistaken (just woke up)
[16:37] <Maik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[16:37] <croraf> I was checking this link, it is extremely confusing and out of date Maik
[16:37] <ducasse> every new release means a hwe kernel for older lts releases
[16:38] <Maik> it's still the same procedure croraf
[16:38] <Maik> ducasse: so i was basically right?
[16:38] <ducasse> yeah, you are
[16:38] <croraf> ducasse, so every major release?
[16:38] <croraf> not point releases?
[16:39] <ducasse> the point releases come with hwe
[16:39] <croraf> So when 18.10 came out the bionic-hwe came out? When 19.04 came out the bionic-hwe-5.0 came out and when 19.10 came out the bionic-hwe-5.4 came out?
[16:39] <ducasse> yeah
[16:39] <Maik> yes
[16:40] <ducasse> but a little after the release
[16:40] <croraf> Thats why we have only 3 hwe for 18.04 and we have 4 releases after 18.04?
[16:40] <croraf> 18.10 19.04 19.10 20.04
[16:41] <croraf> we should have 4 hwe kernel lines for bionic.
[16:41] <croraf> ducasse, Maik
[16:41] <ducasse> if the 20.04 kernel has been released yet for bionic, i'm not sure it has
[16:43] <croraf> I see now that eon ermine (19.10) didnt come with the kernel line
[16:44] <Maik> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2020/08/ubuntu-18-04-5-lts-released-with-linux-kernel-5-4
[16:44] <croraf> And focal (20.04) came with 5.4 kernel. So it might be that 20.04 is mapping to "bionic linux hwe 5.4"
[16:45] <croraf> And that 19.10 didnt come with a hwe.
[16:45] <Maik> bionic should have 5.4 now
[16:45] <croraf> Yes, it has "bionic linux hwe 5.4" kernel line
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> ubottu> linux-image-generic-hwe-18.04 (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image (dummy transitional package). In component main, is optional. Version 5.4.0.42.46 (focal), package size 1 kB, installed size 17 kB
[16:46] <croraf> Before that there was "bionic linux hwe 5.0" kernel line
[16:47] <croraf> It might be that only .04 versions come with a kernel line?
[16:47] <croraf> 18.04 19.04 20.04
[16:47] <croraf> And if you check this image https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=18.04.x+Ubuntu+Kernel+Support+Schedule.svg
[16:48] <croraf> Then you have complete mess and confusion.
[16:51] <Maik> 19.10 had 5.3 and was also HWE, except 5.3 is EOL now and wasn't a LTS kernel
[16:51] <Maik> so what's your point actually
[16:51] <Maik> that the documentation isn't up to date?
[16:52] <croraf> I want to understand how and when these kernel lines come? Maik
[16:53] <lotuspsychje> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[16:53] <Maik> as we said a couple of times before now: they come to LTS after a while when a new version of Ubuntu is released
[16:53] <ducasse> this is really more of a topic for -discuss, it's not really a support issue
[16:54] <Maik> we are in -discuss? ;)
[16:54] <ducasse> oh, sorry, me blinking :)
[16:54] <Maik> hehehe... had that to a while back
[16:54] <ducasse> i'm following too many things at once
[16:55] <Maik> no problem, same here :)
[16:55] <ducasse> there were some changes to how hwe works a while back, you might find that in uwn
[16:55] <ducasse> i don't recall the details
[16:57] <ducasse> iirc, they were mostly regarding how hwe is pulled in and when, but they clarified the whole deal
[16:57] <croraf> lotuspsychje, hehehe, 4th time someone gives me this link :)
[16:59] <croraf> Maik, if this is true, why are there 4 releses after 18.04 but only 3 hwe?
[17:00] <ducasse> the latest bionic is .5
[17:01] <Maik> croraf: ^
[17:01] <ducasse> .1 did not come with a hwe kernel, that leaves .2, .3, .4 and .5
[17:02] <Maik> yep, so that makes 4
[17:02] <ducasse> then we agree on the math :)
[17:03] <croraf> Buuuut, there are only 3 hwe kernels, not 4.
[17:03] <croraf> Maik, ducasse
[17:03] <croraf> the bionic hwe, bionic hwe 5.0, bionic hwe 5.4
[17:04] <Maik> and 5.3
[17:04] <croraf> Maik, there is no such: https://people.canonical.com/~kernel/info/kernel-version-map.html
[17:04] <ducasse> there's a table here - https://www.thomas-krenn.com/en/wiki/Ubuntu_LTS_Hardware_Enablement_Stack_information
[17:05] <croraf> ducasse, nice that you found this :)
[17:05] <ducasse> 4.18, 5.0, 5.3 and 5.4
[17:05] <Maik> 18.04.4 (RN)	5.3	(from Ubuntu 19.10)	HWE Kernel	February 2020	August 2020
[17:05] <coconut> yes, firefox 80 is now updated in focal :)
[17:05] <Maik> from that table
[17:06]  * Maik uses Chrome
[17:06] <croraf> ^
[17:06] <croraf> Chrome also updated today to 85
[17:06] <ducasse> croraf: does that answer your question?
[17:06] <croraf> But how come this does not match in my table ducasse Maik - which is official
[17:07] <ducasse> which table?
[17:07] <croraf> And also the 16.04 only have 4 versions
[17:07] <Maik> croraf: again, because it hasn't been updated maybe? Volunteers work on the documentation afaik
[17:07] <croraf> ducasse, https://people.canonical.com/~kernel/info/kernel-version-map.html
[17:08] <croraf> I posted this before at :04:38
[17:08] <croraf> Maik, I mean this table is very much up to date always
[17:08] <croraf> And this Thomas Kren site is unofficial
[17:09] <Maik> but what's your problem with it? You have the latest kernel and it runs fine doesn't it?
[17:09] <croraf> It does not
[17:09]  * Maik doesn't have any issues
[17:09] <croraf> I do have 20.04 GA latest though
[17:10] <croraf> let me check my table to see the hwe for 16.04
[17:10] <Maik> need to get ready for work in a few, see you all later :)
[17:11] <croraf> xenial has only 1 hwe in my table .... :(
[17:11] <croraf> ok have a nice day Mail
[17:11] <croraf> Maik
[17:12] <ducasse> you need to ask the kernel team about the table, i can't comment on it
[17:13] <ducasse> if you have a problem with your kernel then that is a support issue :)
[17:13] <Maik> thank croraf,  but actually night :)
[17:18] <croraf> ducasse, i know but i want to understand the context to actually be able to solve
[17:18] <croraf> now i've been suggested to install the oem kernel
[17:19] <croraf> How does the "oem" line differ from "hwe" line?
[17:27] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: can you answer this? ^^
[17:28] <croraf> ducasse, on top of this, if I install this oem kernel, would I be able on boot to choose which kernel to boot with?
[17:28] <croraf> *will I be able
[17:29] <ducasse> yeah, you should be able to choose from grub
[17:29] <croraf> cool, so I'm actually safe to try this, with respect to crashing my system or losing data?
[17:29] <croraf> ducasse,
[17:30] <croraf> I can always simply switch to the current kernel
[17:30] <ducasse> i've never used the oem kernels myself, but i would think it's pretty safe to try one out
[17:51] <coconut> What kind of privileges do one need to edit !factoids ?
[17:55] <ducasse> i think only certain ops can do that
[17:55] <ducasse> maybe all of them, not sure
[17:59] <coconut> :) i ask this because i saw a typo in one of them coming by
[18:00] <ducasse> if you report it in -ops they will fix it
[18:00] <coconut> #ubuntu-quality: !support
 Ubuntu 20.10 (Focal Fossa) support in #ubuntu+1. This channel is for testing 20.10 and reporting results here: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/413/builds
[18:01] <coconut> ok, will try that, thank you :)
[18:04] <ducasse> you can also try -offtopic, several ops hang out there
[18:05] <ducasse> i'll also mention it if i see one