[00:03] oh, I remember that gregor was making offline webapps https://gsantner.net/project/tile2048.html [00:03] that might be intresting to look at [00:16] @mateosalta [oh, I remember that gregor was making offline webapps https://gsantner.net/proje …], Thanks! I'll check it out. [00:16] I was reading on the Volla Phone Telegram group that the UBports foundation hired someone to focus on developing Anbox. Is this true?? [00:18] I know they were looking for someone I think [05:55] @TotalSonic [I was reading on the Volla Phone Telegram group that the UBports foundation hire …], We are on it, but its not confirmed now ;) [06:25] All countries people don't like to use chaina products... but mostly we are all using there hardware's (i mean in mobile's)... guy's can we provide ubuntu touch for those mobiles.. can we protect our privacy from china... using ubuntu... if it is not possible... i need some guy's( as a voluntary) to make it possible... and if anyb [06:25] ody have idea to make a funds to to this.. Please tel me Brothers and sisters... [06:26] [Edit] All countries people don't like to use chaina products... but mostly we are all using there hardware's (i mean in mobile's)... guy's can we provide ubuntu touch for those mobiles.. can we protect our privacy from china... using ubuntu... if it is not possible... i need some guy's( as a voluntary) to make it possible... and [06:26] if anybody have idea to make a funds to to this.. Please tel me know Brothers and sisters... [06:35] @Flohack [We are on it, but its not confirmed now ;)], That would be a great new and an important milestone on the development of UT 😉 [06:44] (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/l56yJ4VY.png Good work. September [07:31] @Tim F [Another question: … The pinetab is "out of stock" now for a while. … Do you know wh …], Wrong channel, wrong question(s)? [08:21] [Edit] All countries people's don't like to use chaina products... but mostly we are all using there hardware's (i mean in mobile's)... guy's can we provide ubuntu touch for those mobiles.. can we protect our privacy from china... using ubuntu... if it is not possible... i need some guy's( as a voluntary) to make it possible... an [08:21] d if anybody have idea to make a funds to to this.. Please tel me know Brothers and sisters... [08:22] [Edit] All countries people's don't like to use chaina products... but mostly we are all using there hardware's (i mean in mobile's)... guy's can we provide ubuntu touch for those mobiles.. can we protect our privacy from china... using ubuntu... if it is not possible... i need some guy's( as a voluntary) to make it possible... an [08:22] d if anybody have idea to make a funds to this.. Please tel me know Brothers and sisters... [08:48] @Tim F [Wrong channel, wrong question(s)?], - Do you know when the next batch will go out? … I think they said in the last Q&A they don't know yet … - As a not so techy (end)user will that be the time to buy or is it better to wait a bit longer? … I don't know, I don't own one … - And: Is the software side for the radio (=telefon) use [08:48] of the tab as far as for the pinephone? … AFAIK the Pinetab does not have phone functionality, only WIFI/Bluetooth, witch should work as well as on the Pinephone since it's basically the same hardware (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) … - Wrong channel, wrong question(s)? … I'd encourage you to check out https://t.me/utonpine, the dedicated group [08:48] for Pine64 devices running Ubuntu Touch [09:55] @Paul [A personal webserver https://sitejs.org/ it looks pretty sleek, with lots of pri …], Oh i see interesting, in this case the fastest way to get it to work would be to bundle it in the apps you wish to deliver, the harder way would be to request for it to be included in the rootfs. For testing purpose (aka not for your end users) yo [09:55] u can remount your rootfs as rw and see if it works [13:29] Fwd from xSTEBOx: https://blog.crypto.com/defi-swap-blog/ - in 2 sätzen ist das nicht getan... [13:33] Cheryl Johnson was added by: Cheryl Johnson [13:55] The Ecki was added by: The Ecki [14:39] Bytyflo was added by: Bytyflo [15:14] (Photo, 602x689) https://irc.ubports.com/GLZS8tb5.png Splendid guys!!!!!!! [15:16] (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/BW0LDMoN.webp [15:36] qtrit was added by: qtrit [15:36] Hi .. everyone! ... [15:48] Hi [16:13] Hi [16:27] Hi [16:43] Hey. My school network requires CA Certificates set to "do not validate" on android, however this option isn't present on Ubuntu touch. And help? [16:44] uh, all certificates? [16:44] that sounds like they're breaking TLS on their proxy [16:52] seems like they are storing packets? [16:57] there is no global way to do that though; and no such option in morph afaik [17:03] Hi is there a easy way that doesn't need a extra computer to import contacts from a google account into the contacts application on the FP2? I always get an error when I try to do that. [17:10] @Hannah122 [Hey. My school network requires CA Certificates set to "do not validate" on andr …], It sounds like they are actually monitoring what you are doing, and decrypting your SSl connections too. I would not do any sensible things on this network. Weather report is ok though ;) [17:11] This is what I have just been told on the telegram from "Volla Phone" https://i.imgur.com/yamKiBP.png . Is this true? [17:11] @Flohack [It sounds like they are actually monitoring what you are doing, and decrypting y …], Oh they are, its in the agreement [17:11] I just want to be able to connect [17:12] @Elias [This is what I have just been told on the telegram from "Volla Phone" https://i. …], Yes. We need the Android closed-source software to access the hardware. How else do you think it would work? [17:12] I use orbot and stuff on my g7 play to keep twitter safe xD [17:13] So UT is not totally Open-Source? [17:13] @Elias [So UT is not totally Open-Source?], Just drivers [17:13] @Elias [So UT is not totally Open-Source?], No, we never claimed to be. All things that are not open source in Android need to stay like this ^^ [17:14] @Hannah122 [Just drivers], Well "drivers" is a bit generic, as they would be in the kernel and then would need to be open-sourced. Its rather: Firmware blobs, and proprietary services that need to run to enable the hardware and let it interact with UT [17:14] @Elias [So UT is not totally Open-Source?], If you look for something that has at least only firmware closed go for the Pinephone or Pinetab [17:15] @Flohack [Well "drivers" is a bit generic, as they would be in the kernel and then would n …], no, binary drivers do not need to be GPL. and yes, there are some binary blobs in kernel, which is why the kernel must be stuck to a specific version. if all the binary blobs were only firmware or userspace services, we could upgrade the kernel t [17:15] o newer versions [17:15] @Flohack [No, we never claimed to be. All things that are not open source in Android need …], https://i.imgur.com/Uiu5VX5.png [17:16] @Elias [https://i.imgur.com/Uiu5VX5.png], ubuntu touch is completely open source [17:16] AOSP is open source. Binary drivers or such necessary for hardware to work on Android devices, are not open source [17:16] If it's not totally open-source, then how can you pretend there is no backdoor? [17:16] just like LineageOS is open source [17:17] @dohbee [no, binary drivers do not need to be GPL. and yes, there are some binary blobs i …], I thought the in-kernel drivers are just shims that are being hooked by userspace services, where the actual driver work happens ? [17:17] @Elias [If it's not totally open-source, then how can you pretend there is no backdoor?], if you find one, feel free to let us know. being overly pedantic isn't going to change anything though [17:17] @Elias [If it's not totally open-source, then how can you pretend there is no backdoor?], Please dont troll us. If you thin that UT is not open enough for you then you have to look for an alternative [17:18] @Elias [If it's not totally open-source, then how can you pretend there is no backdoor?], lol [17:18] @Flohack [I thought the in-kernel drivers are just shims that are being hooked by userspac …], i guess it depends on how the manufacturer implemented things for their SoC [17:18] @dohbee [i guess it depends on how the manufacturer implemented things for their SoC], But yes, GPL2 is bendable, what is in the kernel and has no sources ^^ [17:29] Stop getting angry every time you are asked a question, I just discovered that there is a part of the code that is not open-source, and I just ask for answers, no need to be unpleasant. I rather advertise Ubuntu Touch for free and everywhere https://i.imgur.com/ucBYFEU.png https://i.imgur.com/mCTlenM.png , because I think it's a good operat [17:29] ing system, but I'm very concerned about security, so I didn't know there was a closed-code Android part, because if I knew that, I wouldn't be using a FairPhone 2. It's a very big problem, I'm going to have to take the Pinephone out of the closet and explain to the people I advised to take a Fairphone2, that it's not a good idea, because the code [17:29] is not totally open on it. [17:30] @Flohack [Please dont troll us. If you thin that UT is not open enough for you then you ha …], I dont think its an attempt to troll, I think perhaps its difficult to explain or say where the line is? … Ubuntu Touch is full open source so theres no backdoor in the operating system, but some of the drivers are close sourced and so [17:30] there may be some kind of back door there I guess? … But that's something that will be the case regardless of the oS, it's something the OS can't fix, it just depends on those creating the devices and drivers. [17:30] @Elias [Stop getting angry every time you are asked a question, I just discovered that t …], ubuntu touch is open source, the vendor firmware is not part of ubuntu touch [17:34] UT can be ran on mainline [17:34] @hacker12455 [UT can be ran on mainline], not on android devices [17:34] @ItsMeShouko [ubuntu touch is open source, the vendor firmware is not part of ubuntu touch], Do you think there is a chance that the firmware's closed source code could compromise UT if it was malicious? [17:35] @dohbee [not on android devices], depends which ones [17:35] @Elias [Do you think there is a chance that the firmware's closed source code could comp …], it is a possibility, but it is not plausible [17:35] @Elias [Do you think there is a chance that the firmware's closed source code could comp …], Not really [17:35] @hacker12455 [depends which ones], no. UT does not support running without Android portion on Android devices. there is no "depends" here [17:35] @Elias [Do you think there is a chance that the firmware's closed source code could comp …], Yes. But then that would mean you can’t trust any computer [17:36] @dohbee [no. UT does not support running without Android portion on Android devices. ther …], wait what [17:36] can't you theoretically run the pinephone version? [17:36] @hacker12455 [can't you theoretically run the pinephone version?], run it on what? the pinephone image is for the pinephone. there's no generic image that will run on any device [17:36] oh [17:36] @dohbee [no. UT does not support running without Android portion on Android devices. ther …], Not yet [17:37] I'm sure with some moda [17:37] [Edit] I'm sure with some mods [17:37] you can theoretically build your own image on some device without android and try it, but it is not supported by UBports nor a goal of UBports [17:37] it would be nice if there would be a generic image for mainline devices [17:37] @ItsMeShouko [Yes. But then that would mean you can’t trust any computer], Apparently the pinephone has open source firmware. [17:37] @Elias [Apparently the pinephone has open source firmware.], What about modem? [17:37] @hacker12455 [it would be nice if there would be a generic image for mainline devices], The rootfs is; but you need the kernel and bootloader and such [17:38] @ItsMeShouko [What about modem?], the modem is proprietary firmware, even on pine, yes [17:38] baseband is proprietary everywhere [17:38] well if you have for example the S3 or the A5 2015 you have the mainline kernel there [17:39] @hacker12455 [well if you have for example the S3 or the A5 2015 you have the mainline kernel …], no, it's still android kernel. they just did the work to upgrade it to a newer version i guess [17:39] no [17:39] it's mainline [17:39] @ItsMeShouko [What about modem?], I don't use SIM cards, I only use VOIP with Linphone, to prevent calls from being eavesdropped on. [17:39] not an android kernel [17:39] they all have patches which are not in upstream kenrel [17:39] [Edit] they all have patches which are not in upstream kernel [17:40] well the A5 has a mainline dts [17:40] in upstream [17:40] https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/arm64/boot/dts/qcom/msm8916-samsung-a5u-eur.dts [17:41] anyway, this is getting off topic [17:41] UT does not support running without the Android portion (halium) on Android based devices. [17:44] The funny thing is that the Fairphone 2 is Open-Hardware, but the source code of its firmware is closed [17:45] Fairphone2 isn't open hardware. it is modular design, and with ethically sourced hardware. obviously it's not open [17:49] @dohbee [Fairphone2 isn't open hardware. it is modular design, and with ethically sourced …], yes [17:50] where does it say it' [17:50] [Edit] where does it say it's open hw [17:50] @dohbee [Fairphone2 isn't open hardware. it is modular design, and with ethically sourced …], Okay, but from what I just read on this official page https://code.fairphone.com/projects/fp-osos/index.html , they say that they have released all the source code of the Fairphone 2, is that all the code is open, so maybe they are talking nonsense [17:50] , but I have not checked [17:51] ```As announced earlier on our blog, we are releasing the complete build environment for Fairphone OS on Fairphone 2. This contains the full open source code, all the tools and the binary blobs that will allow users to build their own Fairphone OS.``` [17:51] it's the OS [17:51] @Elias [Okay, but from what I just read on this official page https://code.fairphone.com …], they're talking about the stack of software they developed on top of android for FairphoneOS. launcher and such [17:52] and they include google play and apps, which are obviously not open source [17:55] @dohbee [they're talking about the stack of software they developed on top of android for …], All right, as soon as the Pinephone goes stable, I'll put the Fairphone 2 in the closet and I'll use the Pinephone [17:55] @Elias [All right, as soon as the Pinephone goes stable, I'll put the Fairphone 2 in the …], Sand fairphone to me xD [17:55] Jk [17:56] @Hannah122 [Sand fairphone to me xD], Ahah, maybe the Fairphone 3 will already be compatible with Ubuntu Touch at that time ^^ [18:00] @Elias [Ahah, maybe the Fairphone 3 will already be compatible with Ubuntu Touch at that …], I broke lmao [18:20] @hacker12455 [it's mainline], And does calling and mobile data work? Probably not [18:21] Ok I will request the text on the homepage to be changed, if it is that misleading [18:28] @Elias [Stop getting angry every time you are asked a question, I just discovered that t …], I got angry not because you asked a question but because you stated that we "pretend" to be open source, which means you suspect us of cheating on people deliberatley, which is of course not true. Doing such statements in this group in front of 32 [18:28] 00 users is a potential damage that can´t be undone. So next time simply ask a question without drawing false conclusions at the same time. And then, be cosntructive, why not write a better text for this paragraph yourself? we are all UBports, but without active hands such things happens, that something is overlooked because marketing is non-techni [18:28] cal, and the devs probably had never time to read all homepage text. There you have it [18:32] @Elias [Stop getting angry every time you are asked a question, I just discovered that t …], I doubt the PinePhone is completely open. Does it run a Linux-libre kernel on PostmarketOS or so? If not, it obviously isn't completely open either. I don't know of a single phone that is. In fact, manufacturers are legally required to keep the mode [18:32] m proprietary because the mobile phone network is extremely insecure and that is the only way to keep it semi-functional [18:33] There is no 100% Open Source mobile phone [18:33] It is legally impossible [18:33] A tablet without calling capabilities could technically be possible though [18:35] I don't know if it's Ubuntu Touch's responsibility to say this when they're not any less open than Android [18:35] People call Ubuntu Open Source too even though it has Closed Source drivers too [18:36] https://www.pine64.org/2020/01/24/setting-the-record-straight-pinephone-misconceptions/ [18:37] See, Pinephone isn't completely open either [18:43] @Lorxu [I doubt the PinePhone is completely open. Does it run a Linux-libre kernel on Po …], Well the reason for modems being locked down is mostly due to regulations of not changing transmission frequencies and not having an easy access to a software-defined radio. Security is a problem in mobile networks, yes, but I doubt it would be be [18:43] tter with open source. Also POTS systems with SS7 (Signalling system 7) are not very well protected. Also, the standards for communicating with the base station are indeed open, so what you gain by hiding the modem software? Someone with access to an SDR can easily build and run his own modem to access the network. [18:45] What you gain is less legal trouble [18:45] https://www.engadget.com/2009-05-22-investigators-demonstrate-nokia-1100s-criminal-potential.html [18:45] @Flohack [And does calling and mobile data work? Probably not], well on msm8916 devices, calling does work [18:46] mobile data needs workarounds [18:48] @Flohack [Well the reason for modems being locked down is mostly due to regulations of not …], let's try to keep things on topic though :) [18:48] But yeah, a completely Open phone just does not exist [18:48] @Flohack [I got angry not because you asked a question but because you stated that we "pre …], I understand, maybe I misspoke too, when I write about the band, I use a translator, maybe he doesn't translate things properly from French to English, but I thought it was a part of the Ubuntu Touch code that wasn't Open-Source, it's after I unde [18:48] rstood that it was the smartphone firmware that wasn't Open-Source. [18:48] And that's not Ubuntu Touch's fault [18:48] @Lorxu [But yeah, a completely Open phone just does not exist], Yer [18:48] @Lorxu [But yeah, a completely Open phone just does not exist], [Edit] Yet [18:49] @Hannah122 [Yet], Well, I guess VoIP bypasses parts of the mobile network and could maybe be done without modem? Maybe? Not suer [18:49] @Hannah122 [Yet], [Edit] Well, I guess VoIP bypasses parts of the mobile network and could maybe be done without modem? Maybe? Not sure [18:49] Time to do that [18:49] Anyway head to overflow [18:51] Well, I was just trying to explain that Ubuntu Touch is not more proprietary than Android and that it's not Ubuntu Touch's fault that there is no completely Open Source phone, is all :) [18:51] @Lorxu [Well, I guess VoIP bypasses parts of the mobile network and could maybe be done …], If you think about VoLTE, thats just a different way of transporting your call packages, but it does not need to switch the modem to 2G/3G when in 4G, so calls get much faster, and quality improves. So it uses the data mode of the modem rather than [18:51] voice mode. But still all things go through the onboard modem [18:51] @Lorxu [Well, I was just trying to explain that Ubuntu Touch is not more proprietary tha …], Agreed ^^ [18:53] I make no blob phone one day [18:54] @Lorxu [I doubt the PinePhone is completely open. Does it run a Linux-libre kernel on Po …], From what I understand, the Pinephone uses the Helium Linux Kernel from the https://halium.org/ project (the librem 5 also uses it), so that the Ubuntu Touch operating system can communicate with the hardware, so if Helium is open source I don't und [18:54] erstand why the Pinephone wouldn't be, and again the modem part of the Pinephone doesn't concern me, because I don't use it, and I disabled it via the security switches, because I only use the Linphone and SIP communications. [18:54] @Elias [From what I understand, the Pinephone uses the Helium Linux Kernel from the http …], No you mix up things [18:55] Halium is a project wwe need to boot on Android-based phones. Pinephone has just a normal Linux kernel and UBoot in front [18:55] I mean I linked to PINE64 telling you what is not Open Source and that includes the WiFi stuff so uhm... yeah, have fun with that SIP thing [18:58] @Flohack [Halium is a project wwe need to boot on Android-based phones. Pinephone has just …], Okay, I understand better [18:58] @Lorxu [I mean I linked to PINE64 telling you what is not Open Source and that includes …], But you yourself don't have access to the source code? [18:59] @Lorxu [I mean I linked to PINE64 telling you what is not Open Source and that includes …], Haha USB c go brr [18:59] @Elias [But you yourself don't have access to the source code?], No one is allowed it xD [19:01] @Lorxu [I mean I linked to PINE64 telling you what is not Open Source and that includes …], You have done well to connect, because indeed all this is not very clear [19:01] @Elias [But you yourself don't have access to the source code?], The firmware that gets loaded on the usb-c driver is also not open source and has to reverse engineered [19:02] @Lorxu [I mean I linked to PINE64 telling you what is not Open Source and that includes …], It's good to indicate it on the Pine64 website. [19:03] The source code of the modem firmware was partly leaked which is also a Linux running and therefore it's possible to write a open source driver. [19:04] @nanu_c [The firmware that gets loaded on the usb-c driver is also not open source and ha …], All right, for the USB I was aware of, I hope we can do reverse engineering for all the components of the pinphone. [19:04] @Lorxu [There is no 100% Open Source mobile phone], ✅ true … Even if you manufacture your hardware.... Still there are things that stay close.. Sometimes for good [19:06] @nanu_c [The firmware that gets loaded on the usb-c driver is also not open source and ha …], Damn [19:06] I think that finally I will install Linphone on RaspBerry PI ^^ … https://www.linphone.org/news/linphone-python-raspberry-pi-38 [19:07] @Elias [I think that finally I will install Linphone on RaspBerry PI ^^ … https://www.linp …], Pi has blobs too xD [19:08] 😭 [19:09] well, i mean, there are no RISC-V phones yet [19:09] Lmao [19:09] ETA wen [19:09] but can we please stick to things that apply directly to UT. UBports doesn't make hardware :) [19:10] @dohbee [well, i mean, there are no RISC-V phones yet], well, with nvidia buying arm it's only a matter of time... [19:10] Its a sad story that modems internally use a Linux kernel in their closed source firmware ^^ [19:10] @dohbee [but can we please stick to things that apply directly to UT. UBports doesn't mak …], sorry, offtopic [19:12] @Flohack [Its a sad story that modems internally use a Linux kernel in their closed source …], :( [19:12] @dohbee [well, i mean, there are no RISC-V phones yet], Maybe after the sell of Arm.. … Things will be change [19:13] @Flohack [Its a sad story that modems internally use a Linux kernel in their closed source …], You think they may contain malicious code? [19:13] @UBportsOF [19:42] As I see it the digital privacy/security risk comes from your data potentially having a connection to a network via components that you can't trust/'verify. So (like a comment earlier) have all your private/secure data on an off line device... add to this a connection to an online device to send the already encrypted data (and only the encry [19:42] pted data) further afield - and on a connection that you can personally be confident in and you can be personally confident in the privacy/security of your data. … Capture/Process/Store/Encrypt off line - transmit the Encrypted data to an online device that then exposes it to the hackable networks, but can only be read by the intended recipient. … [19:42] This is precisely the project that I am working on :) [19:55] (Photo, 640x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/a14KVYSS.png The misogynists are always morons too stupid to get the point [19:56] And not even have the balls to just insult in chat [19:56] @Elias [You think they may contain malicious code?], Does this choclate cake contain nuts? [19:56] @Lorxu [And not even have the balls to just insult in chat], no reason to bring it in here though and pile on more? [19:57] Nah, I will bring it here solely because I'm not as much of a wuss as this guy who is too afraid to show his face is [19:57] @Lorxu [Nah, I will bring it here solely because I'm not as much of a wuss as this guy w …], True [19:57] @Flohack [Does this choclate cake contain nuts?], May contain: soy, nuts, pork [19:57] @dohbee [May contain: soy, nuts, pork], 😆 [19:57] I think it's relevant as to the kind of community we're encouraging. [19:58] @Lorxu [Nah, I will bring it here solely because I'm not as much of a wuss as this guy w …], perhaps, but we have a code of conduct, and your choice of words is not putting you on the good side :) [19:58] you're choosing to escalate something, not to help make a better community out of it [19:58] In my view it deserves that and more. [19:59] Some of this would just be seen in a better light, if it was in Off topic [19:59] I am escalating? Nah, I'm trying to bait this idiot so we can get rid of his toxicity [19:59] @dohbee [you're choosing to escalate something, not to help make a better community out o …], Well I would not say so, there was no senders name visible etc. Its a thing where we can learn about how the internet works these days [19:59] @Gorsh2 [In my view it deserves that and more.], you cannot put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it [19:59] But he doesn't seem to dare to show his face [19:59] sorry for continuation of offtopic, but I think there is a difference between "secure enough" and "absolute" security, which doesn't exist and is pointless as long as you're still a human being [19:59] @dohbee [you cannot put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it], But you can burn an asshole like that out of an otherwise welcoming community. [20:00] @Lorxu [I am escalating? Nah, I'm trying to bait this idiot so we can get rid of his tox …], you can contact admins in private [20:00] By taking a stance. [20:00] @Gorsh2 [But you can burn an asshole like that out of an otherwise welcoming community.], burning the whole community down is not the solution though [20:00] @Gorsh2 [But you can burn an asshole like that out of an otherwise welcoming community.], Idk it seems to have created a slight bit of in fighting [20:00]