| cmaloney | https://www.zdnet.com/article/canonical-ceo-mark-shuttleworth-makes-peace-with-ubuntu-linux-community/ | 02:26 |
|---|---|---|
| jrwren | yeah, I thought that was interesting | 03:06 |
| jrwren | will be interesting to see what happens when ubuntu community clashes with canonical interests. | 03:06 |
| jrwren | I could easily see ubuntu community deciding they don't like snaps | 03:07 |
| jrwren | ;) | 03:07 |
| greg-g | sigh | 05:28 |
| cmaloney | greg-g: Yeah, I was reminded of a blogpost you made back in 2013 | 11:08 |
| cmaloney | back when I actually blogged about the loco | 11:08 |
| jrwren | dang... Groovy freezes already. time is fast. | 13:58 |
| jrwren | why the sigh greg-g ? | 13:59 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: http://decafbad.net/2013/03/07/just-because-youre-grinding-the-organ-doesnt-mean-i-have-to-dance/ | 14:04 |
| cmaloney | Has a link to the archive of Greg's post | 14:04 |
| cmaloney | https://web.archive.org/web/20130319054239/http://blog.grossmeier.net/2013/03/06/daddy-why-are-you-sad | 14:06 |
| jrwren | noice! | 14:07 |
| cmaloney | And this was a previous post about my feelings at the time: http://decafbad.net/2013/09/20/inertia/ | 14:09 |
| jrwren | i don't remember what was going on in 2013 at the time. | 14:10 |
| jrwren | y'all need DETAILS in these posts. | 14:10 |
| cmaloney | I'll go back in time and tell myself. :) | 14:10 |
| cmaloney | The Inertia one has more details | 14:11 |
| cmaloney | Basically Touch, Juju, and whatever Mark Shuttleworth was banging on about in 2013 | 14:11 |
| jrwren | oh man... 2013... no... that was after we used to do the bug jams in ann arbor. I remember greg-g organizing those. | 14:12 |
| cmaloney | Also was around the time when things like the Amazon integration occurred | 14:12 |
| jrwren | one or two, i was happy to facilitate the space. | 14:12 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, and then I took on organizing them | 14:12 |
| cmaloney | and the Global RElease parties | 14:12 |
| cmaloney | and then around 14.04 is when everyone pretty much stopped showing up | 14:13 |
| jrwren | it is amazing that #ubuntu-us-mi is still alive. y'all are great people :) | 14:13 |
| cmaloney | agreed. :) | 14:13 |
| jrwren | so... I think one of ubuntu's problems aroudn that time is that it was just too good and too done for a lot of people. | 14:13 |
| jrwren | why work on something when it is working just fine. | 14:13 |
| cmaloney | That's part of it, but there was also the sense that the community didn't matter anymore | 14:14 |
| cmaloney | and a lot of folks felt used | 14:14 |
| jrwren | the high hit rate of bugs were fixed, the only thing left was the long tail... the very very very very long tail | 14:14 |
| cmaloney | before we had a seat at the table and then suddenly we found ourselves expected to work in the kitchen and stay out of sight | 14:15 |
| cmaloney | unless you were employed by Canonical | 14:15 |
| jrwren | I was never involved enough in the community to feel it. | 14:18 |
| jrwren | I just had to load my linkedin profile to remember my own history. Jul2014 - Jun 2017 was my time at Canonical. | 14:19 |
| jrwren | That sept 2013 event was a year or so after Jono's departure yes? I wonder if he would have managed the community releationship better. | 14:21 |
| jrwren | oh, no... he left May 2014. Seems like a huge failure on Jono's part. | 14:23 |
| cmaloney | I think it was when SABDFL was doing more asserting | 14:50 |
| greg-g | jrwren: cmaloney yeah, it's all very familiar. And, well, I don't have the best memories of benjamin either :/ So it just seems like a lost community to me | 15:03 |
| cmaloney | I mean, I wish 'em well, and if it's genuine I'll be happy to be a part of it, but I'm not hopeful that it's much more than lip-service | 15:05 |
| jrwren | I wish 'em well too. Still so much potential. | 15:12 |
| jrwren | It seems to me that Fedora community has really stepped up in the last few years as well. | 15:12 |
| greg-g | Yeah, I kinda want to explore fedora more, but I'm just so surrounded by DDs at work, and we use Debian there, that I just sickt with what I know. #lazy | 15:16 |
| jrwren | same. | 15:21 |
| jrwren | and I still believe the tech reasons for deb over rpm are good reasons and useful even though they have been papered over nicely in the last 15yrs. | 15:22 |
| cmaloney | Though apparently ubuntu.social is getting closed on the Fediverse, in part because Popey can't maintain it | 15:23 |
| cmaloney | asked him about a Canonical sponsored version of the site. He said "Unlikely" | 15:23 |
| jrwren | huh, bummer. | 15:23 |
| cmaloney | I'm not going to read too much into that, but it does give me a small indication of where the focus is | 15:24 |
| _stink_ | i had a sense back then that canonical could have done more to cultivate and direct developer talent. i remember asking at a penguicon panel why people who were able to write code were directed so strongly to get into packaging - which is super important to a distro, but not a development task. i never got a great answer. | 16:11 |
| _stink_ | but why couldn't canonical identify like 2 or 3 critical gaps in the desktop experience and gather a bunch of devs to write awesome stuff to fill those gaps? | 16:12 |
| _stink_ | they relied a lot on upstream as far as i could tell | 16:12 |
| _stink_ | instead i viewed canonical as doing in-house dev for things that were not really about the desktop experience (apps and all), and which got them into conflict with the broader linux people. | 16:14 |
| _stink_ | anyway that's an old impression of mine that i'm sure is not totally correct | 16:14 |
| jrwren | very true _stink_ | 16:28 |
| jrwren | very very true | 16:28 |
| jrwren | and it doesn't help that the recommended dev stack changed every few years. | 16:30 |
| jrwren | first it was GTK... oh and btw, QT bad... then it was QT good! | 16:30 |
| jrwren | now it is flutter!?! its like WTF??!? | 16:30 |
| jrwren | they/we COULD have invested a whole lot more in building some rails to get devs on a sane track. | 16:30 |
| jrwren | but... hindsight is 20/20 | 16:31 |
| _stink_ | oh shit what is flutter | 16:47 |
| _stink_ | oh right the billionth way to write cross platform code | 16:48 |
| jrwren | right... and an obscure language, DART | 17:16 |
| jrwren | like... WTF?!?! | 17:16 |
| cmaloney | But it's Google so it's all good | 18:15 |
| jrwren | *eyeroll* | 18:20 |
| jrwren | no one ever got fired for buying IBM | 18:20 |
| jrwren | err, MSFT | 18:20 |
| jrwren | err, GOOGLE | 18:20 |
| cmaloney | heh | 18:29 |
| greg-g | :) :) | 18:32 |
| jrwren | holy shit... I'm so pissed right now. I used to be VERY good with regular expressions and now I can't get the simplest thing to work. | 20:34 |
| jrwren | OMG. | 20:36 |
| jrwren | see... i just needed to complain somewhere... and then my stupid brain would see what it was missing. | 20:36 |
| * greg-g sings "Rubber ducky you're the one, you make debugging so much fun" | 20:52 | |
| cmaloney | regular expressions: the best thing ever, unless there's a typo | 21:00 |
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