jrwrenyeah, I thought that was interesting03:06
jrwrenwill be interesting to see what happens when ubuntu community clashes with canonical interests.03:06
jrwrenI could easily see ubuntu community deciding they don't like snaps03:07
cmaloneygreg-g: Yeah, I was reminded of a blogpost you made back in 201311:08
cmaloneyback when I actually blogged about the loco11:08
jrwrendang... Groovy freezes already. time is fast.13:58
jrwrenwhy the sigh greg-g ?13:59
cmaloneyjrwren: http://decafbad.net/2013/03/07/just-because-youre-grinding-the-organ-doesnt-mean-i-have-to-dance/14:04
cmaloneyHas a link to the archive of Greg's post14:04
cmaloneyAnd this was a previous post about my feelings at the time: http://decafbad.net/2013/09/20/inertia/14:09
jrwreni don't remember what was going on in 2013 at the time.14:10
jrwreny'all need DETAILS in these posts.14:10
cmaloneyI'll go back in time and tell myself. :)14:10
cmaloneyThe Inertia one has more details14:11
cmaloneyBasically Touch, Juju, and whatever Mark Shuttleworth was banging on about in 201314:11
jrwrenoh man... 2013... no... that was after we used to do the bug jams in ann arbor. I remember greg-g organizing those.14:12
cmaloneyAlso was around the time when things like the Amazon integration occurred14:12
jrwrenone or two, i was happy to facilitate the space.14:12
cmaloneyYeah, and then I took on organizing them14:12
cmaloneyand the Global RElease parties14:12
cmaloneyand then around 14.04 is when everyone pretty much stopped showing up14:13
jrwrenit is amazing that #ubuntu-us-mi is still alive. y'all are great people :)14:13
cmaloneyagreed. :)14:13
jrwrenso... I think one of ubuntu's problems aroudn that time is that it was just too good and too done for a lot of people.14:13
jrwrenwhy work on something when it is working just fine.14:13
cmaloneyThat's part of it, but there was also the sense that the community didn't matter anymore14:14
cmaloneyand a lot of folks felt used14:14
jrwrenthe high hit rate of bugs were fixed, the only thing left was the long tail... the very very very very long tail14:14
cmaloneybefore we had a seat at the table and then suddenly we found ourselves expected to work in the kitchen and stay out of sight14:15
cmaloneyunless you were employed by Canonical14:15
jrwrenI was never involved enough in the community to feel it.14:18
jrwrenI just had to load my linkedin profile to remember my own history. Jul2014 - Jun 2017 was my time at Canonical.14:19
jrwrenThat sept 2013 event was a year or so after Jono's departure yes? I wonder if he would have managed the community releationship better.14:21
jrwrenoh, no... he left May 2014. Seems like a huge failure on Jono's part.14:23
cmaloneyI think it was when SABDFL was doing more asserting14:50
greg-gjrwren: cmaloney yeah, it's all very familiar. And, well, I don't have the best memories of benjamin either :/ So it just seems like a lost community to me15:03
cmaloneyI mean, I wish 'em well, and if it's genuine I'll be happy to be a part of it, but I'm not hopeful that it's much more than lip-service15:05
jrwrenI wish 'em well too. Still so much potential.15:12
jrwrenIt seems to me that Fedora community has really stepped up in the last few years as well.15:12
greg-gYeah, I kinda want to explore fedora more, but I'm just so surrounded by DDs at work, and we use Debian there, that I just sickt with what I know. #lazy15:16
jrwrenand I still believe the tech reasons for deb over rpm are good reasons and useful even though they have been papered over nicely in the last 15yrs.15:22
cmaloneyThough apparently ubuntu.social is getting closed on the Fediverse, in part because Popey can't maintain it15:23
cmaloneyasked him about a Canonical sponsored version of the site. He said "Unlikely"15:23
jrwrenhuh, bummer.15:23
cmaloneyI'm not going to read too much into that, but it does give me a small indication of where the focus is15:24
_stink_i had a sense back then that canonical could have done more to cultivate and direct developer talent.  i remember asking at a penguicon panel why people who were able to write code were directed so strongly to get into packaging - which is super important to a distro, but not a development task.  i never got a great answer.16:11
_stink_but why couldn't canonical identify like 2 or 3 critical gaps in the desktop experience and gather a bunch of devs to write awesome stuff to fill those gaps?16:12
_stink_they relied a lot on upstream as far as i could tell16:12
_stink_instead i viewed canonical as doing in-house dev for things that were not really about the desktop experience (apps and all), and which got them into conflict with the broader linux people.16:14
_stink_anyway that's an old impression of mine that i'm sure is not totally correct16:14
jrwrenvery true _stink_16:28
jrwrenvery very true16:28
jrwrenand it doesn't help that the recommended dev stack changed every few years.16:30
jrwrenfirst it was GTK... oh and btw, QT bad... then it was QT good!16:30
jrwrennow it is flutter!?! its like WTF??!?16:30
jrwrenthey/we COULD have invested a whole lot more in building some rails to get devs on a sane track.16:30
jrwrenbut... hindsight is 20/2016:31
_stink_oh shit what is flutter16:47
_stink_oh right the billionth way to write cross platform code16:48
jrwrenright... and an obscure language, DART17:16
jrwrenlike... WTF?!?!17:16
cmaloneyBut it's Google so it's all good18:15
jrwrenno one ever got fired for buying IBM18:20
jrwrenerr, MSFT18:20
jrwrenerr, GOOGLE18:20
greg-g:) :)18:32
jrwrenholy shit... I'm so pissed right now. I used to be VERY good with regular expressions and now I can't get the simplest thing to work.20:34
jrwrensee... i just needed to complain somewhere... and then my stupid brain would see what it was missing.20:36
* greg-g sings "Rubber ducky you're the one, you make debugging so much fun"20:52
cmaloneyregular expressions: the best thing ever, unless there's a typo21:00

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