[02:26] https://www.zdnet.com/article/canonical-ceo-mark-shuttleworth-makes-peace-with-ubuntu-linux-community/ [03:06] yeah, I thought that was interesting [03:06] will be interesting to see what happens when ubuntu community clashes with canonical interests. [03:07] I could easily see ubuntu community deciding they don't like snaps [03:07] ;) [05:28] sigh [11:08] greg-g: Yeah, I was reminded of a blogpost you made back in 2013 [11:08] back when I actually blogged about the loco [13:58] dang... Groovy freezes already. time is fast. [13:59] why the sigh greg-g ? [14:04] jrwren: http://decafbad.net/2013/03/07/just-because-youre-grinding-the-organ-doesnt-mean-i-have-to-dance/ [14:04] Has a link to the archive of Greg's post [14:06] https://web.archive.org/web/20130319054239/http://blog.grossmeier.net/2013/03/06/daddy-why-are-you-sad [14:07] noice! [14:09] And this was a previous post about my feelings at the time: http://decafbad.net/2013/09/20/inertia/ [14:10] i don't remember what was going on in 2013 at the time. [14:10] y'all need DETAILS in these posts. [14:10] I'll go back in time and tell myself. :) [14:11] The Inertia one has more details [14:11] Basically Touch, Juju, and whatever Mark Shuttleworth was banging on about in 2013 [14:12] oh man... 2013... no... that was after we used to do the bug jams in ann arbor. I remember greg-g organizing those. [14:12] Also was around the time when things like the Amazon integration occurred [14:12] one or two, i was happy to facilitate the space. [14:12] Yeah, and then I took on organizing them [14:12] and the Global RElease parties [14:13] and then around 14.04 is when everyone pretty much stopped showing up [14:13] it is amazing that #ubuntu-us-mi is still alive. y'all are great people :) [14:13] agreed. :) [14:13] so... I think one of ubuntu's problems aroudn that time is that it was just too good and too done for a lot of people. [14:13] why work on something when it is working just fine. [14:14] That's part of it, but there was also the sense that the community didn't matter anymore [14:14] and a lot of folks felt used [14:14] the high hit rate of bugs were fixed, the only thing left was the long tail... the very very very very long tail [14:15] before we had a seat at the table and then suddenly we found ourselves expected to work in the kitchen and stay out of sight [14:15] unless you were employed by Canonical [14:18] I was never involved enough in the community to feel it. [14:19] I just had to load my linkedin profile to remember my own history. Jul2014 - Jun 2017 was my time at Canonical. [14:21] That sept 2013 event was a year or so after Jono's departure yes? I wonder if he would have managed the community releationship better. [14:23] oh, no... he left May 2014. Seems like a huge failure on Jono's part. [14:50] I think it was when SABDFL was doing more asserting [15:03] jrwren: cmaloney yeah, it's all very familiar. And, well, I don't have the best memories of benjamin either :/ So it just seems like a lost community to me [15:05] I mean, I wish 'em well, and if it's genuine I'll be happy to be a part of it, but I'm not hopeful that it's much more than lip-service [15:12] I wish 'em well too. Still so much potential. [15:12] It seems to me that Fedora community has really stepped up in the last few years as well. [15:16] Yeah, I kinda want to explore fedora more, but I'm just so surrounded by DDs at work, and we use Debian there, that I just sickt with what I know. #lazy [15:21] same. [15:22] and I still believe the tech reasons for deb over rpm are good reasons and useful even though they have been papered over nicely in the last 15yrs. [15:23] Though apparently ubuntu.social is getting closed on the Fediverse, in part because Popey can't maintain it [15:23] asked him about a Canonical sponsored version of the site. He said "Unlikely" [15:23] huh, bummer. [15:24] I'm not going to read too much into that, but it does give me a small indication of where the focus is [16:11] <_stink_> i had a sense back then that canonical could have done more to cultivate and direct developer talent. i remember asking at a penguicon panel why people who were able to write code were directed so strongly to get into packaging - which is super important to a distro, but not a development task. i never got a great answer. [16:12] <_stink_> but why couldn't canonical identify like 2 or 3 critical gaps in the desktop experience and gather a bunch of devs to write awesome stuff to fill those gaps? [16:12] <_stink_> they relied a lot on upstream as far as i could tell [16:14] <_stink_> instead i viewed canonical as doing in-house dev for things that were not really about the desktop experience (apps and all), and which got them into conflict with the broader linux people. [16:14] <_stink_> anyway that's an old impression of mine that i'm sure is not totally correct [16:28] very true _stink_ [16:28] very very true [16:30] and it doesn't help that the recommended dev stack changed every few years. [16:30] first it was GTK... oh and btw, QT bad... then it was QT good! [16:30] now it is flutter!?! its like WTF??!? [16:30] they/we COULD have invested a whole lot more in building some rails to get devs on a sane track. [16:31] but... hindsight is 20/20 [16:47] <_stink_> oh shit what is flutter [16:48] <_stink_> oh right the billionth way to write cross platform code [17:16] right... and an obscure language, DART [17:16] like... WTF?!?! [18:15] But it's Google so it's all good [18:20] *eyeroll* [18:20] no one ever got fired for buying IBM [18:20] err, MSFT [18:20] err, GOOGLE [18:29] heh [18:32] :) :) [20:34] holy shit... I'm so pissed right now. I used to be VERY good with regular expressions and now I can't get the simplest thing to work. [20:36] OMG. [20:36] see... i just needed to complain somewhere... and then my stupid brain would see what it was missing. [20:52] * greg-g sings "Rubber ducky you're the one, you make debugging so much fun" [21:00] regular expressions: the best thing ever, unless there's a typo