callmepkgood morning01:00
=== pieq__ is now known as pieq
dufluMorning callmepk 01:29
callmepkmorning duflu 01:30
handsome_fengOh,  I think I missed something03:18
didrocksgood morning05:50
Maikgood morning all05:50
oSoMoNgood morning desktoppers06:01
Maikgood morning oSoMoN06:04
handsome_fengoSoMoN: Good morning, and sorry for the delay, there are some internet problems here lately and the email server is down, so I didn't login ircclound and no emails were received. 06:05
didrockshey oSoMoN 06:07
handsome_fengI used heroku to keep my account online, but I can only see these messages if I'm actually logged in.06:21
oSoMoNhandsome_feng, no worries, and thanks for merging!06:25
oSoMoNhey Maik, didrocks 06:25
marcustomlinsonmorning callmepk duflu didrocks oSoMoN Maik07:01
Maikmarcustomlinson: hey :)07:02
didrockshey marcustomlinson 07:07
callmepkhey marcustomlinson didrocks oSoMoN Maik 07:16
Maikheya callmepk07:16
didrockshey callmepk 07:17
seb128goood morning desktopers07:43
oSoMoNgood morning marcustomlinson, callmepk, seb128 07:44
seb128lut oSoMoN , comment ça va ?07:45
marcustomlinsonhey seb12807:45
seb128hey marcustomlinson, how are you?07:45
marcustomlinsonseb128: well thanks, you?07:46
oSoMoNseb128, bien, et toi?07:47
jibelhi all08:06
Laneymoin jibel 08:08
Laneyhow's it going?08:08
marcustomlinsonhey Laney08:16
KGB-0gnome-shell-extensions pristine-tar 0fc1f2f Simon McVittie gnome-shell-extensions_3.38.0.orig.tar.xz.delta gnome-shell-extensions_3.38.0.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-shell-extensions_3.38.0.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/3HTtM08:18
KGB-0gnome-shell-extensions upstream/latest 8957c27 Simon McVittie * pushed 15 commits * https://deb.li/VG6y08:18
KGB-0gnome-shell-extensions tags b7310de Simon McVittie upstream/3.38.0 * Upstream version 3.38.0 * https://deb.li/3TkI408:18
oSoMoNhey Laney, jibel 08:23
jibelHey Laney oSoMoN 08:23
didrockshey hey Laney, seb128 :)08:25
seb128lut diddledan 08:36
seb128lut didrocks 08:36
seb128& jibel08:36
seb128oSoMoN, marcustomlinson , sorry I context switched and forgot to reply, I'm slightly better but still not great, that cold is no fun, I lost my voice during the w.e and it's still not fully back, at least I start feeling I'm the recovery path, nose is unblocked now08:38
seb128hey Laney 08:38
Laneyhey oSoMoN didrocks seb128!08:39
jibelsalut seb128 08:44
KGB-0gobject-introspection tags 48babf5 Simon McVittie upstream/1.66.0 * Upstream version 1.66.0 * https://deb.li/BaQM10:59
KGB-0gobject-introspection upstream/latest faab8d6 Simon McVittie * pushed 77 commits * https://deb.li/9EPC10:59
KGB-0gobject-introspection pristine-tar 99916dc Simon McVittie gobject-introspection_1.66.0.orig.tar.xz.delta gobject-introspection_1.66.0.orig.tar.xz.id * pristine-tar data for gobject-introspection_1.66.0.orig.tar.xz * https://deb.li/iwEpV11:00
luna_meeting now soon?13:01
luna_also good afternoon13:06
Trevinholuna_: yeah, and good afternoon!13:07
hellsworthgood morning desktopers13:29
kenvandinehey hellsworth 13:29
oSoMoNhey hellsworth, kenvandine 13:30
luna_heya hellsworth Trevinho kenvandine oSoMoN 13:30
oSoMoNhey luna_ 13:30
didrocks999hey hellsworth, luna_ 13:30
hellsworthhi folks13:30
=== didrocks999 is now known as didrocks
luna_1 month left until the 20.10 release13:30
seb128#startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-09-2213:31
meetingologyMeeting started Tue Sep 22 13:31:11 2020 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.13:31
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick13:31
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.38 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/sdyPskaS/gnome-338 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-09-22 | Current topic:
seb128Roll call:  didrocks, duflu, hellsworth, jamesh, jibel, kenvandine, Laney, marcustomlinson, oSoMoN, seb128 , tkamppeter, Trevinho, robert_ancell, callmepk13:31
seb128k, let's get started!13:32
seb128#topic rls-bb-bug13:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.38 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/sdyPskaS/gnome-338 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-09-22 | Current topic: rls-bb-bug
seb128no desktop entry13:32
seb128bug #180181413:33
ubot5bug 1801814 in flatpak (Ubuntu Bionic) "Environment overwrites XDG_DATA_DIRS" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180181413:33
luna_seems a fix is released in Focal? can that be backported? (just a question)13:33
seb128it could probably13:34
seb128it's a flatpak/wayland session fix on bionic13:34
seb128I think it's not a priority to target for us, since it has no assign I would suggest deleting the bionic target for now13:35
seb128it doesn't stop someone to work on it if they want13:35
seb128thanks Didier, deleted13:35
seb128and that's it for bionic13:35
seb128#topic rls-ff-bug13:36
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.38 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/sdyPskaS/gnome-338 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-09-22 | Current topic: rls-ff-bug
seb128the one bug there is assigned and targetted but just not untagged13:36
seb128remind me that I said I would try one day to filter those cases out of the reports, I will put that for my next hacking session13:37
seb128Trevinho, you forgot to assign the SRU bug to yourself13:38
seb128other items are assigned or incomplete13:38
Trevinhoseb128: oh13:38
seb128#topic rls-gg-bug13:38
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.38 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/sdyPskaS/gnome-338 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-09-22 | Current topic: rls-gg-bug
seb128no desktop entry13:38
seb128nothing needed there13:39
seb128#topic update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages13:39
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.38 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/sdyPskaS/gnome-338 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-09-22 | Current topic: update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages
seb128gstreamer is being hanlded13:40
luna_There is a new Firefox 81, and Thunderbird (some version) released today and yesterday if oSoMoN wants something new to package up btw :)13:40
seb128gnome-control-center should clear off when retries results are updated13:40
seb128luna_, thanks, such comments are better for the AOB part of the meeting that come next :-)13:41
seb128glib/gst-omx sounds like something that needs investigated13:41
seb128any taker?13:41
LaneyI already handled it13:41
seb128gnoe-shell Binaries broken by the update: gnome-shell-extensions/3.37.91-1~fakesync/amd6413:41
seb128Trevinho, ^ you are handling that?13:42
Trevinhosync to be done13:42
luna_seb128: alright then i know that for next time 13:42
seb128shell is what is blocking xdg portals, etc (I've a mp for the report script that would indicate that if someone wants to review it ;-)13:42
seb128k, then we are good13:42
seb128#topic AOB13:42
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.38 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/sdyPskaS/gnome-338 | Desktop Team Weekly Meeting - 2020-09-22 | Current topic: AOB
seb128any other topic?13:42
LaneyIt's not to be done, I fake synced it13:42
Laneythe SRU team are asking about the scope of our micro release exception13:43
Laneylooks like life is going to get harder for gnome shell updates, around extensions13:43
seb128I saw that on discourse13:43
seb128Trevinho was reprsenting us well there I think13:44
Trevinhoyeah, doesn't make much sense imho, we need to figure out a way not to be blocked by them 13:44
seb128I wonder if we should just remove any extension .deb from the ubuntu archive13:44
Trevinhoit's very hard to check ALL them, not sure if we can avoid debian syncs for them at all13:44
seb128and tell users to just use the upstream facilities to install those13:44
seb128(I mean the ones we are not relying on and testing)13:44
TrevinhoI'd agree, we can just support our ones, for the rest packages don't make any sense IMHO.13:44
oSoMoNI was going to suggest deleting extensions that are known offenders13:44
LaneyIf that's what the SRU team wants13:45
Laneythen fine, let's kick all gnome-shell-extension-* out13:45
seb128that should maybe a suggestion someone (Trevinho?) should post about on discourse to have a public discussion ?13:45
Trevinhoseb128: is it possible to avoid auto-syncs to apply tho those packages?13:45
luna_https://blogs.gnome.org/sri/2020/09/16/the-gnome-extensions-rebooted-initiative/ is this in anyway helpful or related? 13:45
seb128it's possible to blacklist syncs yes13:45
TrevinhoI feel alone in that discussion, so if someone joins me, at least I don't feel like I speak for myself only :D13:45
didrocksagreed that it’s the only sustainable way for us due to API instability IMHO13:46
seb128I don't know if you can do gnome-shell-extensions*13:46
Laneyit's just code, it can be changed to do anything13:46
Trevinhother's basically NO api either :)13:46
Trevinhowe've a volounteer :D13:46
seb128Trevinho, can you post on discourse saying we want to remove those because of SRU requirement and upstream minor versions not being compatible13:47
seb128I will create a trello card13:47
seb128and I will reply on the SRU team discussion, sorry for not doing earlier13:47
seb128I though you were handling that well so stayed out of it :-)13:48
Trevinhoeheeh, no worries :)13:48
LaneyIs this all because of one bug that happened once, or are there other cases?13:48
Trevinhothanks then13:48
TrevinhoI've given my opinion on packages we still need the exceptions for, but maybe that list could be improved, so maybe it's better if you guys review it again and propose a final one (I'm sure Laney wanted something more)13:49
seb128Laney, I will let Trevinho comment on that, maybe a good question/answer for the discourse topic13:49
seb128Trevinho, right13:49
TrevinhoLaney: not that I know, but for sure may be... there could be loads of cases where it's not working, just nobody checks13:49
seb128we can discuss that more after the meeting if needed13:49
seb128any other topic ?13:49
LaneyThe point for SRUs though ...13:49
Trevinhowell this is still something for all the team I imagine, so... fine to skip to later, but it should be interesting for most of us13:50
seb128Laney, sorry I though we addressed the SRU question enough, anything specific you think we should cover here?13:50
seb128Trevinho, 'this'?13:51
TrevinhoSRU thingy13:51
Laneyyes I was just going to say that SRUs don't care if something is working in the archive or not, it's more if something is broken *by* the SRU13:51
seb128if I understand the request we need to review the discourse post and see if the list makes sense and is complete13:51
seb128and agree on a course of actions for extensions13:51
Laneyit's "OK" for things to be broken and stay broken13:51
Trevinho> In that case, I think this means that we cannot push microrelease updates of gnome-shell to stable releases because such updates are known to break packaged extensions. The microrelease exception was originally granted by the technical board on the basis that such updates are not expected to break things, and that situation has clearly changed in the case of gnome-shell.13:51
Trevinhojust arrived a reply....13:51
Laneyso I think the scope is about whether shell stable releases do actually break extensions or if this is just one13:52
seb128I've a feeling the SRU team is not going let us get away with a 'this is one'13:53
seb128reality is that it can happen13:53
kenvandineyeah, it can13:53
seb128so we either need to remove things from the archive to reduce our testing13:53
seb128or increase our testplan to cover what is in the archive13:53
Trevinhocan we remove things from focal though?13:53
seb128or another option I'm not thinking of?13:53
seb128I don't think so13:53
TrevinhoI've NOT a scientific way to check if we're breaking13:54
seb128but we shouldn't have more new tarballs for focal after that round13:54
Trevinhonor saying "I teated them all" i think would be professional13:54
seb128GNOME schedules stops at .613:54
Trevinhoyeah, but... we can still do cherry-picks13:54
seb128so I say we do an effort to test extensions from the archive for that round if that's what the SRU team requires...13:54
Trevinhoand they may happen (like OEM things, for example I may do in the fingerprint lands)13:55
seb128well then we need to convince the SRU team on those cases that it's fine13:55
seb128either by explaining why the changes cherry picked are not risky13:55
seb128or by testing the extensions...13:55
Trevinho41 extensions, not easy task13:56
Trevinhosorry 42 in focal13:57
Trevinholet's remove the 3 we handle.... still 39 to check, impossible. 13:57
seb128not impossible, but expensive to do yes13:57
luna_would it not be easier to let people download the extensions they want from: https://extensions.gnome.org/ ?13:58
seb128luna_, that's basically whar we suggested doing going forward13:58
seb128but we can't change past releases13:58
luna_ah true13:58
seb128I'm a bit lost at this point13:59
seb128Laney, Trevinho , did you want to get some conclusion out of the meeting?13:59
seb128or should we just wrap and keep that going here if needed?13:59
Laneyit would have been nice to have had a unified position as the team14:00
Laneybut it's ok, I guess that isn't going to come from a quick chat in the meeting14:00
seb128right, I think we need some data and time to process which is why I was suggesting Trevinho start a discourse topic about his proposal of removing extensions14:00
Trevinhoyeah, not sure... I would like to have a statement to reply for sure14:00
seb128we can continue the discussion there14:00
Trevinhogiven the new one I mean14:01
seb128Trevinho, I'm going to reply14:01
seb128to the SRU post on discourse14:01
Trevinhoseb128: new topic, not same on SRU exceptions, right?14:01
seb128one specific about removing deb extensions for better shell maintainability14:01
LaneyRobie asked for that conversation to be with the release team14:02
seb128they are on discourse?14:02
LaneyNot sure, there's a category there but we only used it for like release schedules so far14:03
seb128k, I'm going to read the SRU post again there now14:03
seb128but no point keeping everyone in the meeting for that imho14:03
seb128so let's wrap and those interested can continue the discussion14:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-desktop to: Home of the Desktop Team, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam | For help or questions, try #ubuntu | Work (read-only for non-developers): https://trello.com/b/mxaCZTVc | GNOME 3.38 work claiming / tracking: https://trello.com/b/sdyPskaS/gnome-338
meetingologyMeeting ended Tue Sep 22 14:05:01 2020 UTC.  14:05
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2020/ubuntu-desktop.2020-09-22-13.31.moin.txt14:05
seb128thanks everyone!14:05
luna_np 14:05
seb128so our option I think14:07
seb1281. don't SRU gnome-shell updates14:07
seb1282. validate every extension in the archive as part of the SRU test plan14:07
seb1283. remove deb extensions to avoid 2.14:07
seb1284. accept that gnome-shell updates can create issues for some universe extensions (is that ok? needs r-t convincing)14:07
seb1285. other?14:07
seb128what do people here think?14:08
seb128I think we can rule out 1, we want updates they are beneficial to most users14:09
seb1282. is has a non trivial resource cost and I don't think we do have the resources for that atm14:09
Trevinho1. would just make people sad, and as I wrote, it would be silly to make ubuntu worse for 1 offending case that was fixed anyways14:09
seb128so I would suggest 3 or maybe 4...14:09
oSoMoN3 makes the most sense to me, but the question remains of what to do for currently supported releases14:10
TrevinhoI agree14:10
seb128or a mix, we could purge things are outdated, buggy, known to break and maybe keep a few popular ones if we believe there is a value in having them as a deb (is there?)14:10
Trevinho3 is the final path, wondering for focal though14:10
Trevinhowell if there's community doing the work to maintain them, fine...14:10
Trevinhonot saying we ban them14:10
Trevinhobut they need to be responsible for14:10
seb128it's always tricky14:10
seb128because there is, until there isn't14:10
seb128and then we are left with a LTS to maintain and no-one to fix those that had community interest14:11
seb128is there any value to have some as deb (out of default install for us and flavors)14:11
Trevinhodon't think so14:12
Trevinhofor sure there may be extensions (dashtodock) for example that is outdated in e.g.o14:13
Trevinhoso packages help14:13
Trevinhobut this is a case where users can still always just intall it from git...14:13
Trevinhonot that hard14:13
seb128right, or get the e.g.o situation sorted out14:13
seb128which is the real problem14:13
Trevinhowe can't do the role of the maintainer for everything, if we're not14:14
oSoMoNI'd argue that if upstreams are not updating their extensions on e.g.o, packaging them as debs to work around the problem is not a good fix14:15
seb128Trevinho, marcustomlinson , what happened to the vte/g-t updates?14:21
Trevinhoseb128: marcustomlinson was busy so I took it, but I've not finished yet14:22
Trevinhoseb128: if you want to take it, feel free :)14:22
seb128Trevinho, no, maybe you should have it to marcus if you are already busy was my point :)14:23
seb128also it's done in Debian so just a merge, shouldn't be too difficult14:23
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g_
Trevinhoseb128: yeah, yeah... shouldn't be long indeed14:25
Trevinhoseb128: just didn't had time yet, but will do it later14:25
TrevinhoI actually took it when it wasn't in debian yet so it involved a few more work14:26
LaneyI was leaving that one because marcustomlinson was signed up on Trello14:27
Laneybut I see that he left the card, so ...14:27
Beretquick poll - for those of you that have both - do you disable the integrated graphics in your systems for Ubuntu?14:29
seb128Trevinho, that's not true, the update was uploaded to Debian on monday and you discussed it with marcus and the card changed on thursday14:29
Beretand just use the discreet cards?14:29
TrevinhoBeret: I only use integrated :)14:29
Trevinho(unless I've to test stuff on nvidia)14:30
seb128Beret, hey, I've an XPS with only intel so I'm out of that poll14:30
Trevinhoseb128: I mean, I looked at that before it was in debian... then I noticed was just a merge14:30
Trevinhobut I had it into my radar even before14:31
seb128Trevinho, you should have left it to marcus who said would do it on friday14:31
seb128now we are tuesday and it's still not done14:31
jibelBeret, I disable the discret card for longer battery life.14:31
BeretI'm looking to buy a new desktop/machine and I do google hangouts like ... too much... so I need hardware acceleration of that14:32
Beretso I'm thinking of getting a discrete  graphics capable NUC14:32
Beretmy existing NUC is integrated only and I can't get hangouts accelerated14:32
Beretwhich renders the machine not really useful while in a google meet14:33
Trevinhoseb128: I just wanted to help as he was busy, but I can handle quickly, nw14:33
TrevinhoBeret: mh, well recent integrated card should be quite good at that, and for sure intel ones have better and earlier support for video acceleration14:34
jibelI've a recent NUC with integrated only and I can stay all day long in a HO without any problem.14:34
jibelpython linter in vscode is what kills the NUC 14:34
Trevinhoseb128: meanwhile I've also opened https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/removal-of-gnome-shell-extension-from-universe-and-stop-auto-syncs/1843714:34
Trevinhojibel: don't tell me that about clangd :D14:35
Beretjibel, I have i91514:35
Beretit's awful14:35
jibelI don't know what is on this machine14:35
jibellspci says VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Device 9bca14:36
LaneyTrevinho: Thanks for posting that, but I think that it should been on the ubuntu-release list, since I don't believe most release team members read the desktop group on discourse - or even read discourse at all most of the time. Maybe email the list to point to the thread?14:37
Beretwhat does lspci | grep VGA say?14:37
Beret00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Iris Pro Graphics 580 (rev 09)14:37
TrevinhoLaney: I don't have powers to write them, can you maybe move it?14:37
Beretthat's me14:37
LaneyTrevinho: email list14:37
Laneyyou have the power, for sure14:38
TrevinhoLaney: I meant that I've not the powers to create a topic in the Release team section14:43
Trevinhoof discourse14:43
Laneyyeah, I'm not sure it should be there, we didn't use that section for discussions yet14:44
Laneyit's got restricted access14:44
LaneyI'd have just started a thread on the email list, but if you want to have it on discourse then I'm just suggesting sending an email saying "please see this thread" to the release team list14:44
Laneyso that release team members actually have a chance of seeing it :>14:47
TrevinhoLaney: well can be both, I wrote there as that's what seb told me :)14:48
Laneyit's fine if you prefer that, I'm just suggesting echo "I started a Discourse thread about removing gnome-shell extensions from the Ubuntu archive, would appreciate your feedback: <discourse link>" | mail -s "Thread about removing gnome-shell extensions from Ubuntu" ubuntu-release@lists.ubunt.com14:55
marcustomlinsonTrevinho: sorry :/14:55
marcustomlinsonlooks like I got you in trouble14:55
Trevinhomarcustomlinson: no, no worries :)14:56
seb128bah, why does my client tend to drop from IRC on idle now :-/14:56
seb128Laney, Trevinho , I suggested to post on discourse to have a team + community discussion about our suggested course of actions, that's a bit orthogonal to the r-t discussion (which is taking the result of the post to them)14:57
* Trevinho writes to ML to notify as well14:58
LaneyI think it's OK / nice / good to involve that team early14:58
kenvandineseb128: which client are you using?15:07
kenvandineIRCCloud has been disconnecting me pretty often lately15:07
kenvandineused to stay connected, but that was when i was paying15:08
kenvandinei stopped paying and it would stay connected at least throughout the work day15:08
kenvandinebut now i get disconnected every 3-4 hours it seems15:08
LaneyNice IRC connection you've got there...15:11
Laney...shame if anything were to happen to it...15:12
seb128kenvandine, no, just hexchat here but I think it's rather nm status changes15:24
=== ayan is now known as Guest4740
ricotzLaney, hi :), is there an ETA of gtk+3.0 3.24.23 for focal?16:48
Laneyricotz: no ETA, it's somewhere on the list though16:50
LaneyYou Can Help™16:51
ricotzI would not expect it to more than a rebuild of the groovy package16:53
Laneythe upload probably will indeed be that, also needs SRU bug and build/runtime testing17:02
Laneysee you tomorrow17:03
=== ijohnson is now known as ijohnson|lunch
=== ijohnson|lunch is now known as ijohnson

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!