| xnox | realtime-neil: linux-image-generic is invalid selections. | 10:22 |
|---|---|---|
| xnox | realtime-neil: you get the kernel that's available on the iso..... the isos are built with hwe kernels. | 10:22 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: if you want 4.15 kernel; you do need to rebuild your iso to be with the GA kernel available. And/or have it in the pool. | 10:23 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: if we can't find a kernel asked for, we install a kernel we have. | 10:23 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: 5.4 is the same kernel as in focal btw. and will be supported for the rest of the bionic lifetime. | 10:24 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: understood. Could you explain how one "asks for" a different kernel? I was under the impression that this was impossible with ubiquity. | 12:38 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: Yesterday, cjwatson explained that, with the introduction of ubiquity, the generally accepted means to install a desired kernel image is to include it in the filesystem.squashfs. I have been able to demonstrate that this works --- but the problem is that the hwe kernel (the one with which the isos are built) is installed _also_. I could tolerate the presence of two kernels if I could force grub to default to the one I put in the fil | 12:57 |
| realtime-neil | esystem.squashfs. | 12:57 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: in focal, we added support to correctly select hwe or oem kernel; and uninstall hwe kernel, when a different one is installed. | 13:28 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: that was not backported to bionic ubiquity i don't think. | 13:28 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: How was this implemented? | 13:30 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: i think it's these 2020 commits https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/log/scripts/check-kernels | 13:35 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: I saw that script in the Bionic ubiquity source package --- I figured I could just overwrite it with logic of my own choosing. The problem I'm having is that I don't know where it "lands" inside the iso. | 13:37 |
| xnox | it's weird. it's in the ubiquity.deb itself in the filesystem.squashfs | 13:38 |
| xnox | i think | 13:38 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: but there are matching things in python code too! | 13:39 |
| xnox | there is this https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/tree/ubiquity/components/check_kernels.py | 13:40 |
| xnox | but also | 13:40 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: do I understand correctly that you're suggesting I override the _python_ script that calls the shell script `check-kernels`? | 13:40 |
| xnox | https://git.launchpad.net/ubiquity/log/scripts/plugininstall.py | 13:40 |
| xnox | which also has matching 2020 changes for the kernels replacement (install new one, remove old one) | 13:40 |
| xnox | and be careful there are multiple plugininstall.py files | 13:41 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: not sure. but when i looked at it in april. it was not possible to correctly install a different kernel flavour from the iso pool and/or the internet, instead of the one that the image itself is built with (i.e. the hwe one by default) | 13:42 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: and i had to fix all of those pieces to make it work correctly. Especially with/without nvidia; with/without secureboot. | 13:42 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: Ick. Might I be able to stub it out altogether? Effect some kind of `d-i base-installer/kernel/image string none`? I already have the kernel I want in the filesystem.squashfs. | 13:46 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: trace things with print() and/or sh -x, and yeah find things you don't want, and skip them. | 14:18 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: but be careful, because you want linux-generic installed (not just linux-image-generic) | 14:18 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: and at the end of things, on the installed system it must be marked as installed manually (with like apt-mark manual) because otherwise ubiquity might try to remove it at the end. | 14:19 |
| xnox | or like user could run $ apt autoremove and get it auto removed too, if it's isntalled auto. | 14:19 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: why are you using 4.15 kernel, which has less support, for new laptops/desktops/VM/hypervisor when compared to the v5.4 kernel? | 14:20 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: understood ... Can you give me some guidance as to where the "action" starts? I have a unpacked iso in front of me, but I don't know what (or where) the "entrypoint" to the ubiquity things is. | 14:20 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: I'm using the 4.15 kernel because $DAYJOB says $VENDOR only supports LTS kernel | 14:20 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: point taken regarding linux-generic vs. linux-image-generic | 14:21 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: v5.4 is the LTS kernel! | 14:21 |
| realtime-neil | I mean for Bionic, not Forcal | 14:22 |
| xnox | both everyone, canonical, ubuntu, and kernel.org | 14:22 |
| realtime-neil | I mean for Bionic, not *focal* | 14:22 |
| xnox | v5.4, is LTS on both *focal* _and_ *bionic* =) | 14:22 |
| xnox | we always offer next lts kernel, on lts-1. | 14:22 |
| xnox | with the same lifecycle support. | 14:22 |
| xnox | so $VENDOR is telling lies =) | 14:23 |
| realtime-neil | okay, maybe I'm mixing terminology --- what's the "common ubuntu" name for the thing pointed to by the package `linux-image-generic`? | 14:23 |
| xnox | usually we refer to it as GA kernel, meaning it's the same major series at release time, as it will be for the lifetime of the series. | 14:24 |
| xnox | which minority of our installs use | 14:24 |
| realtime-neil | "General Availability"? | 14:24 |
| xnox | yeah | 14:25 |
| realtime-neil | Okay. And it's unpopular because why? | 14:25 |
| xnox | ubuntu desktop defaults to hwe kernel; oem certified laptops use rolling linux-oem kernel; Public Clouds, use cloud speicific rolling kernel i.e. linux-aws | 14:25 |
| xnox | it gets old, doesn't support newer hardware, and is slower on newer hardware => because newer kernel series squeeze more performance out of existing hw because they are coded to do better. | 14:26 |
| xnox | thus 5.4 vs 4.15 on the same hardware is faster, uses less power, supports more hw. | 14:26 |
| xnox | thus you installing 4.15 on ubuntu desktop, deviates from what Ubuntu Desktop installs do, by default, in 2020. of the bionic release. | 14:27 |
| xnox | because it's not April 2018 anymore. | 14:27 |
| xnox | also for example as virtualbox / vmware / public-cloud /hyperv host platforms improve they typically need newer kernels to work properly. | 14:28 |
| realtime-neil | point taken --- your advice is to just take the hwe kernel that the Bionic Desktop installer wants to give me? | 14:28 |
| realtime-neil | I also note that this looks promising: | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | ```$ apt-cache policy linux-oem | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | linux-oem: | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | Installed: (none) | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | Candidate: 4.15.0.1097.101 | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | Version table: | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | 4.15.0.1097.101 500 | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-updates/main amd64 Packages | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | 500 http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-security/main amd64 Packages | 14:29 |
| realtime-neil | 500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-security/main amd64 Packages | 14:30 |
| realtime-neil | 500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-updates/main amd64 Packages | 14:30 |
| realtime-neil | 4.15.0.1004.2 500 | 14:30 |
| realtime-neil | 500 http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages | 14:30 |
| realtime-neil | 500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages | 14:30 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: do not use linux-oem => that's kernel tuned to work on certified laptops, with specific quirks for particular laptop models. | 14:30 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: understood ... I figure it's not by accident that it's based on the GA kernel. | 14:31 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: it's not for general consumption, and may be better or worse. we have explicit metadata to only install it when needed; and roll-off to the hwe-kernel as soon as all the fixes are srued. | 14:31 |
| xnox | there is linux-oem-5.6 => based on 5.6 which matches none of the GA/hwe kernels from any series. | 14:31 |
| xnox | etc. | 14:31 |
| xnox | there is linux-oem-osp1 too | 14:32 |
| xnox | there are many different oem kernels for specific SKUs. | 14:32 |
| xnox | only one of them is v4.15 | 14:32 |
| realtime-neil | is there any documentation or catalog with these listed? | 14:32 |
| xnox | no, because that's private with the hw vendors. as we cannot referenced unreleased SKU names until they are public and for sale, yet we enable them before hand. | 14:33 |
| realtime-neil | got it | 14:33 |
| xnox | ubiquity in focal; automatically picks and installs the right thing. | 14:33 |
| xnox | which for ubuntu desktop, the default is the linux-hwe-MM.YY metapackage. eventually all oem kernels roll onto that. | 14:33 |
| xnox | (but on per sku basis, because raisins) | 14:34 |
| realtime-neil | and we've established that this behavior --- at least in bionic --- is not easy to override | 14:34 |
| realtime-neil | back to my question about the ubiquity "entrypoint" in the installer iso .... where does it start in earnest? | 14:34 |
| realtime-neil | I've looked at the init scripts within the casper/initrd, but I got lost trying to follow the invocations. | 14:36 |
| xnox | ubiquity.service no? | 14:37 |
| xnox | but you can also boot to live session, and launch the ubiquity.desktop file from the desktop if one is interactive | 14:38 |
| xnox | so the answer is, it has many =) | 14:38 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: Oh, boy! This whole "multiple entrypoints", "infinite wrappers" seems to be a recurring theme in this software game. :D | 14:48 |
| xnox | only slightly better than d-i with 110 source packages. | 15:04 |
| xnox | i guess it's best to clone the git repo and/or bzr branch | 15:04 |
| xnox | and run update, because then you know this is the installer bits all on this directly | 15:04 |
| xnox | because image has a lot of ubuntu-desktop stuff which is not quite always related | 15:05 |
| xnox | (casper is though) | 15:05 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: I want to revisit this "run update" of which you speak, but what I really want to know is how the ubiquity artifacts map to iso contents. Is that detailed in the source I just cloned out (https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity) ? | 15:32 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: for bionic, focal, or groovy? did you get the right branch & a matching repo? | 15:35 |
| xnox | it's years of development between them. most things don't stay the same in terms of repos/layout/etc. | 15:35 |
| realtime-neil | I've checked out ubuntu/bionic | 15:36 |
| realtime-neil | ``` | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | $ git remote --verbose | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | originhttps://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity (fetch) | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | originhttps://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity (push) | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | $ git status --short --branch | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | ## ubuntu/bionic...origin/ubuntu/bionic | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | $ git grep check_kernels.py | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | debian/ubiquity.install-any:ubiquity/components/check_kernels.py usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/components | 15:38 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: And yet: | 15:40 |
| realtime-neil | $ find ubuntu-18.04.5-desktop-amd64.d/ -name '*ubiquity*' | 15:40 |
| realtime-neil | ubuntu-18.04.5-desktop-amd64.d/pool/main/u/ubiquity | 15:40 |
| realtime-neil | ubuntu-18.04.5-desktop-amd64.d/pool/main/u/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu | 15:40 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: I'm clearly missing something obvious, but I have no idea what that is. | 15:40 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: i don't know waht ubuntu-18.04.5-desktop-amd64.d is | 15:41 |
| realtime-neil | it's the unpacked contents of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/bionic/release/ubuntu-18.04.5-server-amd64.iso | 15:42 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: ubiquity is a source package. it builds many .debs. Some of them are optional. Some of them are installed inside filesystem.squashfs | 15:42 |
| xnox | ubiquity installer is not used on server.iso at all | 15:42 |
| xnox | it only is used on the desktop iso | 15:42 |
| realtime-neil | whoops, my bad, I meant the desktop iso | 15:42 |
| xnox | (some of them are in the pool, and some of them are not anywhere at all! or like are flavour specific, i.e. the kde/qt frontend is shipped on kubuntu iso) | 15:43 |
| xnox | inside that bionic ubiquity tree you should be able to do | 15:43 |
| xnox | ./debian/rules update | 15:43 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: you're saying the ubiquity things are already in the filesystem.squashfs ? That's where I should be making changes (if any)? | 15:43 |
| xnox | to download vendored pieces | 15:43 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: that's where the installer runs from, yes. it's preinstalled in the filesystem.squashfs as it must start and run on boot, and it does. | 15:43 |
| xnox | cause that's how it works. | 15:44 |
| xnox | if you are patching ubiquity you might want to patch source, and build new debs, chroot into filesystem.squashfs and install updated debs there. | 15:44 |
| xnox | or just patch/hack files inline up to you. | 15:44 |
| xnox | i'm busy. | 15:44 |
| realtime-neil | xnox: let me see if I understand --- ubiquity runs from the flilesystem.squashfs, but the filesystem.squashfs is also installed to the disk partition that the ubiquity installer prompts the user to choose? | 15:45 |
| realtime-neil | sorry | 15:45 |
| realtime-neil | I'll bother you some other day | 15:45 |
| xnox | realtime-neil: yes! | 15:46 |
| xnox | initrd on the iso, mounts the iso, then mounts filesystem.squashfs as /cdrom then also mounts it with overlayfs tmpfs. | 15:46 |
| realtime-neil | I have much to study; thank you very much | 15:46 |
| xnox | during install it copies /rofs contents to target disk; and cleans up things, like self-removing ubiquity | 15:46 |
| xnox | because you don't want installed system, to try to boot into isntaller again (doh) | 15:47 |
| xnox | hence it's a very much 2-in-1 thing, both the installer and what gets installed into target | 15:47 |
| realtime-neil | that's either brilliant or crazy | 15:47 |
| xnox | hence you can find in ubiquity sourcecode a bit of a harakiri, where it supposedly removes itself, but it does it in the chroot /target => (aka in-target) instead of the running system. | 15:47 |
| xnox | think of it as a virus, that infects all the things with itself =) | 15:48 |
| realtime-neil | I wrote a self-destructing systemd unit like that once; I think I felt similarly about it :D | 15:48 |
| xnox | and it tries to be smart about things, i.e. it tries not to copy things over which will be deleted later anyway. | 15:48 |
| realtime-neil | Why is it adding `linux-image-generic-hwe-18.04` to the `casper/filesystem.manifest-remove` in the Ubuntu Bionic Desktop installer isoaccomplishes nothing; i.e., the installed system still has the unwanted `linux-image-generic-hwe-18.04`? | 22:56 |
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