[00:03] <ubptgbot> flenelfouleni was added by: flenelfouleni
 hi
 https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1433495/
 (Photo, 1280x719) https://irc.ubports.com/6p3LQkW3.png https://www.pling.com/p/1433951/
 https://www.pling.com/p/1433951/
[00:08] <ubptgbot> zabalataibnbatata was added by: flenelfouleni
[00:08] <ubptgbot> nassirab was added by: flenelfouleni
[00:09] <ubptgbot> Wassim Saad was added by: flenelfouleni
 @demone011 [I had same problem, but I think I fix it with formating. Or maybe I tried in win …], 👍
 @namithubot [<reply to media>], probally a left over thing broke from the qtwebengine migration
 Hello there!
 hi
 https://imjustpoorboy.nobody-loves.me/i/m0s0.png
 https://imjustpoorboy.nobody-loves.me/i/zmx8.png
 some good promotional material you should be using if you ask me 😁
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/qzb3BpDr.png Photo from ‎イニャキ‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‌‎
 (Photo, 1280x960) https://irc.ubports.com/f55eNL5c.png
 @mintphin looks straight out from a movie
 yesss
 now make a promotion video lol
 i'm working on that!
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl29wKp5whA
 some idea can be taken from here :P
 i already filmed it tho lol
 ah
 feel free to post your video here, looking forward into that
 this is actually for lunecrash so yup. i'm leaving some photos so the community can highlight them in any ways they want.
[04:05] <ubptgbot> Flame9914 was added by: Flame9914
 @namithubot [<reply to media>], It seems to be being copied via javascript so this might related to that. It's not merged yet though. … https://github.com/ubports/morph-browser/pull/390
 (Photo, 591x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/RBwSNGkR.png @erfanoabdi can i use this los 16 rom for booting ubiports gsi on lavender?
[04:57] <ubptgbot> Vini was added by: Vini
 my ssd is gonna suffer copying these files
 they're uncompress MXF footage
 which is very very heavy
 [Edit] they're uncompressed MXF footage
[05:41] <ubptgbot> <رز کریت> (Photo, 548x785) https://irc.ubports.com/Ttk1350C.png
 haha i'm busy editing :3
[05:48] <ubptgbot> Michael Hund was added by: Michael Hund
 @mintphin [https://imjustpoorboy.nobody-loves.me/i/m0s0.png], Uhhh which device is it?
 laurel_sprout
 Its fake msg
 Xiaomi Mi A3
 @رز کریت [<reply to media>], Scam
 today i updated it
 @Flohack [Uhhh which device is it?], Could you please get the ban hammer out? ^^
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/Hlv6MbSJ.webp
 @Javacookies [It seems to be being copied via javascript so this might related to that. It's n …], ok I've opened https://github.com/ubports/morph-browser/issues/400 and will look into it. I remember some web actions did not work properly with the old QtWebEngine, but the java script access for the clipboard could have blocked them, too.
[06:32] <ubptgbot> MAITCHOVCOW was added by: MAITCHOVCOW
[07:00] <ubptgbot> Ffdg was added by: Ffdg
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/XNNVLw46.png Can't install anything using terminal.. The command here i used "apt-get install git"
 It's bug? Or I'm doing something wrong?
 @Flame9914 [<reply to media>], have a look there http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/libertine.html
 The file system on ut is readonly and if you install something it will be deleted with the next update
 We should add a FAQ to the docs with all those questions
 @nanu_c [have a look there http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/libertine …], Thank you 😬
 for some reason, people expect a linux server instead of a phone OS
 @nanu_c [The file system on ut is readonly and if you install something it will be delete …], On next update? But if I just reboot the device the things will stay fine?
 You can remount it in readwrite mode
 https://youtu.be/Hs_yheYYdwA
 @Flame9914 [On next update? But if I just reboot the device the things will stay fine?], yes they will be retained … Actually, rootfs changes won't be removed every update. It still depends on what the update changes in the rootfs. Full upgrades will definitely remove them but smaller most likely won't
[08:04] <ubptgbot> Gg Ty was added by: Gg Ty
 @mintphin [today i updated it], Finally! I was thinking about asking where to send my money to make this happen for some time now lol.
[09:26] <ubptgbot> Andryi #BTLG was added by: Andryi #BTLG
[09:54] <ubptgbot> sunsetsherbet was added by: sunsetsherbet
 Fwd from motivation 🎋: “Everything in life is a mind game! Whenever we get swept under by life’s dramas, large and small, we are forgetting that no matter how bad the pain gets, no matter how harrowing the torture, all bad things end.” David Goggins
[10:33] <ubptgbot> Ali Kabiri was added by: Ali Kabiri
 @Flame9914 [<reply to media>], Yes
[11:15] <ubptgbot> <Benni S> @rogieroudshoorn [for some reason, people expect a linux server instead of a phone OS], I am not surprised though. I guess their story/journey is as follows: … Oh, ubuntu on phone -> let's try things i know from ubuntu desktop -> realization that it's not ubuntu desktop -> redirect expectation -> move on & have fun. … It's like buying app
[11:15] <ubptgbot> les, but once you take your first bite, you notice it's a pea ... but it's nice anyway, so you munch on :) Sure, if I had read the label more carefully, I had known before 🤷‍♂️
[11:17] <ubptgbot> <Benni S> Personally i tried to 'apt-get install' before discovering the update button in the settings app :P
 @Benni S [Personally i tried to 'apt-get install' before discovering the update button in …], That could be avoided by not preinstalling terminal app. 😉
 @Danfro [That could be avoided by not preinstalling terminal app. 😉], maybe excluding apt-get from default $PATH would stop this
 @Flame9914 [On next update? But if I just reboot the device the things will stay fine?], Keep in mind that the next OTA image-based upgrade might revert your installed deb packages, mess with them or make your system otherwise unstable. Ubuntu Touch is not a usual Linux distro, its not meant to be updated with individual packages
 @joeth [maybe excluding apt-get from default $PATH would stop this], Replace it with a friendly warning. We still need it for development
 @joeth [maybe excluding apt-get from default $PATH would stop this], On the other hand you have to make system r/w to use apt. So you would expect people to know what they are doing.
 @Flohack [Replace it with a friendly warning. We still need it for development], if it's removed from $PATH it is still usable, but you would just have to add `export PATH=$PATH:/path/to/apt/folder` to .bashrc
[13:12] <ubptgbot> Bourinov was added by: Bourinov
 On the Librem 5 smartphone with PureOS, you can install any desktop application like Blender, LibreOffice or video games like DOOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv1CF3qFavw. … While on Ubuntu Touch we are forced to limit ourselves to applications in the openstore, the convergence of the mobile mode to the desktop mode is not very interest
[13:22] <ubptgbot> ing, it just allows a larger display of the screen, and a change of the windowing mode that's all, unfortunately, it is not an open Linux installation unlike PureOS. … Do you have any explanation for this?
 [Edit] On the Librem 5 smartphone with PureOS, you can install any desktop application like Blender, LibreOffice or video games like DOOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv1CF3qFavw. … While on Ubuntu Touch we are forced to limit ourselves to applications in the openstore, the convergence of the mobile mode to the desktop mode does not have
[13:24] <ubptgbot>  much interest, it just allows a larger display of the screen, and a change of the windowing mode that's all, unfortunately, it is not an open Linux installation unlike PureOS. … Do you have any explanation for this?
 "Do you have any explanation for this?" part is strange
 on Ubuntu Touch you're supposed to be able to do same with Libertine
 the problem is that it's not maintained properly and there seems to be lack of interest to fix it
 once Wayland backend of Mir is working (it's already used on PinePhone), there are little technical obstacles to launch same apps PureOS does
 You just answered the question you find strange ^^ "Do you have any explanation for this?" … The basic user will never use Libertine, usually only developers will touch this, whereas on the librem 5 everything is accessible in convergence mode, even if the Librem 5 (pureOS) doesn't have as many smartphone applications as on Ubuntu Touch.
 @Elias [You just answered the question you find strange ^^ "Do you have any explanation …], We answered that to some extent in the last Q&A, at the very end of the hour. I think we did a good job why we do not want to go that route
 Ubuntu Touch is special with this containerization and user restrictions, but we think it has solid reasons to not open up everything to the user. Mainly because it should be usable by all users, not only tech nerds :)
 I wouldn't want to be forced to use desktop apps on a smartphone OS
 Fwd from motivation 🎋: “We are all great. No matter if you think you’re dumb, fat, been bullied, we all have greatness. You gotta find the courage. It’s going to be hard work, discipline, and the non-cognitive skills – hard work, dedication, sacrifice – that will set you apart.” … “You are stopping you, you are giving up instead of
[13:53] <ubptgbot>  getting hard.” David Goggins …  
 what I want to add, UT is not restricting anyone from remounting rootfs rw and installing apps from repositories, it's just that it has old xenial rootfs and you have to bear consequences
 @Flohack [Ubuntu Touch is special with this containerization and user restrictions, but we …], I understand that, but even the basic user would want to use this famous convergence, because it is put forward for all users https://ubports.com/fr/convergence , but he will never use libertine, because it's too complicated for him, so he won't f
[13:55] <ubptgbot> ind any use to use the smartphone -> Desktop convergence, since he can't install his desktop applications.
 The solution is to make libertine better
 @fredldotme [The solution is to make libertine better], And especially more accessible for basic users
 Well Libertine worked already much better, so it could be argued that it can do the job if it would be bug-free ^^
 Also, who's gonna do it? We have a lot of stuff on our plates right now
 just have more plates .. it is a biiig all you can eat..
 eat the commits
 @Elias [On the Librem 5 smartphone with PureOS, you can install any desktop application …], they are so annoying.. in the end they run a special shell and have custom applications that can converge to some degree and lots of things that wont work well.. and do all that with abusive labor contracts..
 @anpok [they are so annoying.. in the end they run a special shell and have custom appli …], Okay, I didn't know
 they have some technically nice things, like starting from scratch and new, wlrootfs-based compositor that is compatible with desktop apps mostly out of box
 [Edit] they have some technically nice things, like starting from scratch and on a modern base, wlrootfs-based compositor that is compatible with desktop apps mostly out of box
 We would need a graphical package manager as a synaptic on the Libertine containers, I think it would solve a lot of problems, and it would make the installation of packages more accessible, and thus facilitate the switch to convergence mode.
 Chromium can be run on libertine?
 a phone is an appliance with restricted means to access an fix. I think they know that and will have to come up with safeguards. They just pretend to be different
 Hmm robert had chromium running in mir natively once
 @Elias [We would need a graphical package manager as a synaptic on the Libertine contain …], I'm pretty sure Synaptic is not the best choice for a non-enthusiast.
 @fredldotme [I'm pretty sure Synaptic is not the best choice for a non-enthusiast.], True, but it would be better than nothing.
 Better than nothing is the worst of both worlds, honestly. Either we have something genuinely better for both the mobile and desktop experience, or we don't have it at all.
 Synaptic allows you to install all the necessary packages in a few clicks, even a basic user would have no trouble using it.
 But would it provide a good experience? A basic user wants an app store, something with pretty screenshots, reviews, presenting recommendations.
 I dont see for ordinary users the need to install that many desktop tools for now. Until we get more devices with HDMI out the convergence is a kind of developer preview thingie, unfortunately. Without proper hardware in everybodies hands, how do I benefit from Firefox installed? Just to take a famous example
 @fredldotme [But would it provide a good experience? A basic user wants an app store, somethi …], Right, but it would take too much time to develop it.
 As I said, "better than nothing" implies it sucks
 @Elias [Right, but it would take too much time to develop it.], Most people don't care about legacy apps on their phone. And the only people being vocal about legacy apps on phones, are people like you who tend to want a traditional linux distro experience, and are willing to go to further extents anyway
 @Flohack [I dont see for ordinary users the need to install that many desktop tools for no …], or to reiterate what i've always been saying, convergence isn't about making your phone into a PC. it's about having responsive apps that handle different screen sizes and input devices appropriately, that can run on phones, tablets, PCs, or what
[14:50] <ubptgbot> ever
 external display simply exposes that on your phone by giving you a bigger screen with other input devices. libertine isn't about convergence. it's about a crutch to use when one might need to use legacy apps on an external screen for some reason, until converged alternatives are available in the store
 If you want to spend some time watching us talk about these things, read-write rootfs'es and the ability to install random packages that are not for phones: https://youtu.be/H4ef2HWVmQs?t=2839
 @dohbee [external display simply exposes that on your phone by giving you a bigger screen …], Yes true
 @dohbee [Most people don't care about legacy apps on their phone. And the only people bei …], I understand, thanks for the explanations, anyway there is always the possibility to make dual-Boot with Ubuntu-Touch https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=ZL1GREqoqx8 , if we want to use other operating systems that are close to a standard use of
[14:57] <ubptgbot> a Linux distribution.
 @Elias [I understand, thanks for the explanations, anyway there is always the possibilit …], you can use that sure, but it is not something we support
 @fredldotme [If you want to spend some time watching us talk about these things, read-write r …], I understand, thanks for the explanations, anyway there is always the possibility to make dual-Boot with Ubuntu-Touch https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=ZL1GREqoqx8 , if we want to use other operating systems that are close to a standard use
[14:58] <ubptgbot>  of a Linux distribution. ;)
 @fredldotme [If you want to spend some time watching us talk about these things, read-write r …], I would watch ;)
 Dual-boot is almost never a solution for mere mortal basic users.
 @dohbee [you can use that sure, but it is not something we support], The Multi-Boot is not working well?
 It's not official
 @Elias [The Multi-Boot is not working well?], it is not something from UBports, and is not supported by us. just like when using MultiROM on android based devices to dual boot UT
 You can just use libertine
 @dohbee [it is not something from UBports, and is not supported by us. just like when usi …], All right, I'll do some tests to see if everything is working well.
 @ImmyChan [You can just use libertine], not necessarily (GUI apps in libertine won't really work on pinephone right now), and Xmir doesn't do hw accel on android devices
 but it will get better in the future
 Tbh it wouldn't work well anyway
 There's only a handful of legacy apps that would work, and most apps in the Ubuntu 16.04 repos are very out of date
 @Elias [We would need a graphical package manager as a synaptic on the Libertine contain …], You can browse the package contents of the Libertine repositories by installing `lubuntu-software-center` although you can not install from it. I think the Libertine gui is actually easy to install packages from, but it would be helpful if some
[15:04] <ubptgbot>  bug fixes changes to a a default behavior so that it showed terminal stream during installation without having to make some clicka first.
 @ImmyChan [There's only a handful of legacy apps that would work, and most apps in the Ubun …], Even if they were updated and would all work: Ubuntu Touch itself is focused on a touch-first experience.
 @fredldotme [Even if they were updated and would all work: Ubuntu Touch itself is focused on …], This
 @TotalSonic [You can browse the package contents of the Libertine repositories by installing …], That's good to know, I'll try to install it.
 @Elias [The Multi-Boot is not working well?], Volla is working on a multi-OS boot loader that shows a lot of promise that should be able to be used on other devices besodes the Volla Phone as well. When it grts beyond alpha I am sure there will be some posts on it.
 @Elias [The Multi-Boot is not working well?], [Edit] Volla is working on a multi-OS boot loader that shows a lot of promise that should be able to be used on other devices besides the Volla Phone as well. When it grts beyond alpha I am sure there will be some posts on it.
 i used to use the convergence mode on my Nexus 4, the libertine side of things worked fine with a gui software centre (either lubuntu or synaptics) installed, but it was obvious that the real star of the show was the convergence-enabled native apps
 @TotalSonic [Volla is working on a multi-OS boot loader that shows a lot of promise that shou …], This is good news. Having an official boot loader, will add an important feature to Free smartphones under linux, which will completely differentiate itself from classic smartphones under Android.
 the convergence enabled apps allowed you to continue working/playing/whatever you're doing without any breaks inbetween (aside from the 'plug in a cable' part)
 Convergence is best when the same app has a smartphone "experience" as well as one for the desktop. There is a reason we call apps from Libertine "legacy".
 [Edit] Convergence is (best) when the same app has a smartphone "experience" as well as one for the desktop. There is a reason we call apps from Libertine "legacy".
 yeah exactly
 its been a while since ive used the convergence feature (I think probably back in the Canonical days) but that really was the best way to do it rather than trying to use libertine apps hehe
 For me the value in the legacy apps is in patching still existing holes in the capabilities of available ative apps. E.g. `gthumb` provides some basic image editing functions not available from InstantPho, `xournal` allows for annotating a pdf, `medit` or `gedit` are still better text editors for myself than say tedit or uText,`gtick`
[16:09] <ubptgbot> makes a nice metronome for music practice that has a few features missing in GuitarTools, etc. But using these legacy apps is certainly usually more clumsy and awkward than is optimal. Ultimately the best solution is just more and better UT native apps.
 [Edit] For me the value in the legacy apps is in patching still existing holes in the capabilities of available native apps. E.g. gthumb provides some basic image editing functions not available from InstantPho, xournal allows for annotating a pdf, medit or gedit are still better text editors for myself than say tedit or uText,gtick ma
[16:09] <ubptgbot> kes a nice metronome for music practice that has a few features missing in GuitarTools, etc. But using these legacy apps is certainly usually more clumsy and awkward than is optimal. Ultimately the best solution is just more and better UT native apps.
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/oyfrbf4n.webp
[16:37] <ubptgbot> Boris Mihailov was added by: Boris Mihailov
 Do you folks have the support group for FluffyChat?
 @mintphin [Do you folks have the support group for FluffyChat?], it's on matrix, `#fluffychat:matrix.org`
 @Elias [The Multi-Boot is not working well?], [Edit] Volla is working on a multi-OS boot loader that shows a lot of promise that should be able to be used on other devices besides the Volla Phone as well. When it gets beyond alpha I am sure there will be some posts on it.
 Meilenstein für DAB+: Bund und Länder beschließen Digitalradiopflicht in Empfangsgeräten | DAB+ Mehr Radio … https://www.dabplus.de/2019/11/08/meilenstein-fuer-dab-bund-und-laender-beschliessen-digitalradiopflicht-in-empfangsgeraeten/
 🤭 wrong chat... 😂
[19:32] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> Is it a common error that morph crashes when i try to paste something or is it just me?
 seems ok here on my nexus 4 anyway (pasting text to paste.ubuntu.com entry)
[19:57] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> In the url bar, sorry
 also works ok here
 @Boris Mihailov [Is it a common error that morph crashes when i try to paste something or is it j …], no problem pasting into Morph for me - Meizu Pro 5 - post-OTA13 RC
[20:05] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> Well it happens on the Xperia X
[20:06] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> Im on the devel channel (the 64bit one)
[20:10] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> Try this
[20:11] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> Instead directly paste and go, try selecting a part of the url and paste it
[20:11] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> Or copy it
 @Boris Mihailov [Instead directly paste and go, try selecting a part of the url and paste it], working for me - seems the problem is specific to your device and version
[20:38] <ubptgbot> <Boris Mihailov> Thanks
[20:40] <ubptgbot> JDK2387 was added by: JDK2387
 @CSmartly [when there is multiple apps open if click empty space it should let me just  sel …], AGREED! It annoys me too.
 @ImmyChan [You can just use libertine], What can you install via Libertime for example?
 @JDK2387 [What can you install via Libertime for example?], Not much, but there's also not much that will work on Linux phones atm
 @JDK2387 [What can you install via Libertime for example?], most anything that's packaged as a deb for the architecture in question
 I think we should have list of tested deb aps
 there's threads on the forum about it
 I will check thanx!
 running legacy apps on phones is not the priority of Ubuntu Touch though
 @JDK2387 [What can you install via Libertime for example?], apps that I have tested that work ok in Libertine and that have some value in actually providing functions that are not completely available on native UT apps are: medit, gedit, gthumb, gimp, abiword, gnumeric, evince, xournal, gtick, firefox, hardinfo,mypaint, mpv
 Thank you. Firefox for its extentions is must.
 Now I wan to actually learn how to do it. Is there guide for Libertime?
 @JDK2387 [Thank you. Firefox for its extentions is must.], A warning that Firefox performs poorly in UT - it is slow and clunkly relative to the native Morph browser, so on UT devices it is far from a "must" and way more of a "you can".  A guide to Libertine is at http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/libertine.html  … I
[21:00] <ubptgbot>  am planning on posting a video showing how to install it via gui soon as well
 @JDK2387 [Thank you. Firefox for its extentions is must.], [Edit] A warning that Firefox performs poorly in UT - it is slow and clunkly relative to the native Morph browser, so on UT devices it is far from a "must" and way more of a "you can".  A guide to Libertine is at http://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/userguide/dailyuse/libertine.ht
[21:09] <ubptgbot> ml  … I am planning on posting a video showing how to install Libertine via gui soon as well
[22:44] <ubptgbot> Ted Zhu was added by: Ted Zhu
[23:11] <ubptgbot> Jony Bepary was added by: Jony Bepary