[06:38] <waffl3x> I am trying to figure out the best way to set up pulseaudio to work with jackaudio, I was previously using QJackCtl to run scripts on startup, but it's unreliable, I am thinking of just using default.pa to achieve what I need now, any suggestions? I also am having trouble understanding the default config in default.pa and the docs don't help very much
[08:57] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) ubuntu studio sets up bridge between pulse and jack automatically. You can setup tour jack interface from studio control gui
[08:58] <MauroGaspari[m]> I have been using ubuntu studio as daily driver on desktop and laptop for a while now. Everything works out of the box once you do initial setup.
[09:01] <waffl3x> hmm, I actually hadn't realized this was a different distro, I was pointed here from #ubuntu
[09:02] <waffl3x> while it would be nice to have everything work out of the box my system has other priorities, audio is second to them so I don't think I will use ubuntu studio
[09:13] <MauroGaspari[m]> You can do that really on any ubuntu flavor
[09:13] <MauroGaspari[m]> Ubuntu studio works out of the box but it is quite easy to apply the same to any ubuntu. Let me link a tutorial i wrote about that
[09:14] <MauroGaspari[m]> https://frontpagelinux.com/tutorials/easily-install-jack-audio-with-ubuntu-studio-installer/
[09:18] <waffl3x> I imagine it will be pretty useful, ill read through it for sure
[09:19] <waffl3x> would you happen to know why default.pa refuses to load my module-jack-source s
[09:31] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) what i know is that jack and jack/pulse bridges done by hand are very complex to get up and running and not very well documented. I know it does not help  much. But you will just be able to skip all the trouble by using the studio installer tools.
[09:31] <MauroGaspari[m]> Just make sure that, if you have a separate boot partition,  you have enough space for another kernel  as the studio tools will install lowlatency kernel.
[09:34] <waffl3x> thats good to know actually as I was planning on installing another kernel
[09:46] <waffl3x> do you happen to have a guide to setting up the audio filters you are using in that guide MauroGaspari[m] ? I am used to reaplugs and the calf ones are considerably more complex
[10:43] <rgh> waffl3x: as the calf plugins are being removed from the iso as they are a cause of trouble, better find other processing filters
[10:44] <rgh> LSP plugins are of high quality, but IMHO a bit involved to set up.
[10:45] <waffl3x> yeah calf seemed really jank to me so im not shocked
[10:45] <waffl3x> which version of the LSP plugins do you suggest?
[10:45] <waffl3x> thats a general question too I suppose
[10:45] <waffl3x> oh to be clear I mean like, VST versus LV2 versus whatever else there is
[10:45] <rgh> On Linux always lv2
[10:46] <waffl3x> sounds good
[10:46] <rgh> If the host has lv2 support, use that .
[10:47] <waffl3x> if I dont want to use carla, how would I go about hosting the plugins?
[10:48] <rgh> Ardour?
[10:48] <rgh> Use carla. It's the best .
[10:48] <rgh> There's Element and Synthpod, but afaik only carla is supported in ustudio
[10:48] <waffl3x> mm, I had some trouble with carla the first time I was setting stuff up
[10:48] <waffl3x> I think the issues were mainly with ladish though
[10:49] <rgh> Oh, don't use ladish
[10:49] <rgh> Obsolete
[10:49] <waffl3x> good to know
[10:49] <rgh> Nsm. New Session Managed
[10:49] <rgh> Manager
[10:49] <waffl3x> it certainly felt obsolete
[10:50] <rgh> Or use non session manager if that's available. New Session Manager is the way forward though.
[10:50] <waffl3x> I was under the impression carla used ladish like the other kxstudio applications
[10:51] <waffl3x> does it just use NSM by default and I was mistaken?
[10:51] <waffl3x> come to think of it, maybe thats what was causing the problems was using both at the same time
[10:51] <waffl3x> and I hadnt realized it
[10:51] <rgh> Oh ...
[10:51] <waffl3x> because I was using uhh, catia/claudia as well
[10:51] <rgh> Oh no
[10:52] <waffl3x> that explains a lot honestly, it was a huge headache
[10:53] <rgh> I haven't used session managers really .
[10:53] <rgh> I'm about to though, for the Libre Music Challenge \o/
[10:53] <waffl3x> whats that?
[10:54] <rgh> It's awesome
[10:54] <rgh> Hold on
[10:55] <rgh> https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=22105
[10:56] <waffl3x> neat
[10:56] <waffl3x> I imagine thats going to prove the capabilities of linux audio dev
[11:00] <rgh> That's part of the evil plan behind it.
[11:01] <rgh> Also, to stop people from endlessly configuring their system and just make a damn track :-P
[11:02] <rgh> Also, since there's scoring/voting involved, you are sure your music is going to be listened to.
[11:03] <rgh> And now. I gotta deliver mail in the rain/storm.
[11:04] <rgh> Thanks to covid-19 I'm no longer a full time musician. Huzzah.
[11:22] <waffl3x> yeah I can imagine people are tempted to endlessly config, I certainly feel like thats what I'm doing
[11:23] <waffl3x> I just spent about 20 minutes following this https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=44862
[11:23] <waffl3x> only to realize that pulseaudio isnt going to be handling that if I'm using jack
[11:23] <waffl3x> it also occurred to me that I maybe shouldnt have pulse be real time, but im not actually certain
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) sorry i got busy with work. Luckily [rgh](https://matrix.to/#/@rghvdberg:matrix.org) rgh already replied all your questions.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> My advice is if you are not sure and want to see how studio installer and/or ubuntu studio work, install ubintu studio groovy gorilla on a separate ssd or computer. Take it for a spin and see how easy it is.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> I am going to publish a few nore articles and tutorials as soon as groovy gorilla is released. Including small script to autostart carla and minimize it on login.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> * [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) sorry i got busy with work. Luckily [rgh](https://matrix.to/#/@rghvdberg:matrix.org) rgh already replied all your questions.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> My advice is if you are not sure and want to see how studio installer and/or ubuntu studio work, install ubuntu studio groovy gorilla on a separate ssd or computer. Take it for a spin and see how easy it is.
[11:24] <MauroGaspari[m]> I am going to publish a few more articles and tutorials as soon as groovy gorilla is released. Including small script to autostart carla and minimize it on login.
[11:26] <waffl3x> yeah no worries, I think I have it all figured out now anyway
[11:26] <waffl3x> I'll be looking forward to guides for setting up compressor and gate
[11:27] <waffl3x> I had a hard enough time with reacomp and it was massively simple
[11:27] <MauroGaspari[m]> [waffl3x](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_waffl3x:matrix.org) if you want to laugh a bit at my misadventures in linux audio, and maybe quickly see how pulseaudio or jack can help you, i have a wrap up article here, with links to both pulse and jack tutorials.
[11:27] <MauroGaspari[m]> What a huge rabbit hole!
[11:27] <MauroGaspari[m]> https://frontpagelinux.com/articles/pulseaudio-vs-jack-adventures-in-linux-audio/
[11:29] <waffl3x> my main issue turned out to be I had a second default.pa file which is why my changes werent applying (the weird thing is it looked like they were applying some of the time but in reality it was probably just bugging out a little)
[11:29] <waffl3x> if I knew about ubuntu studio a few days ago I woulda probably picked it up tho
[11:31] <waffl3x> does ubuntu studio just have really good defaults for buffer size and periods
[11:31] <waffl3x> or do you have to set those up yourself too
[11:32] <waffl3x> ah yeah I got to the section on your guide
[11:32] <waffl3x> guess ill just have to do some more research
[11:36] <waffl3x> I have a alc1220 I believe
[11:38] <waffl3x> hmmm, maybe im just stuck with mediocre quality, I'm seeing a few threads of people with problems
[11:56] <waffl3x> I seem to have been able to fix my xrun problem by increasing to 3 periods
[11:57] <waffl3x> just kidding just got one but im suspecting it might have to do with CPU load and frequency not scaling in time
[12:04] <MauroGaspari[m]> Overall to my audionoob surprise,  it seems that any cheap-ish audio usb intrlerface beats any high end motherboard's integrated audio.
[12:06] <MauroGaspari[m]> Usb interfaces will need 3 period, and then you can set latency to 256, see if woeks well, eventually try and reduce it
[12:34] <kaeru> waffl3x: yeah that has been my experience as well with onboard, 256 buffers 2 periods was about as low as I can get, 512 and 2, and you would have no xruns
[12:35] <waffl3x> I wish that was the case for me, I get xruns every 6 minutes at 1024 and 2
[12:35] <waffl3x> well
[12:35] <waffl3x> as far as I could tell it gives me xruns regardless
[12:35] <waffl3x> also if it tried to run in 6 channel mode (default) it would just stutter and stop working at all
[12:35] <waffl3x> right now im dealing with something even more bizarre though
[12:36] <waffl3x> with jack dbus enabled QJackCtl loses the ability to stop the server
[12:37] <waffl3x> ok its working again
[12:37] <kaeru> have not seen that issue with  ubuntustudio for past few ubuntu releases
[12:37] <waffl3x> idk man
[12:38] <waffl3x> this program is turbojank
[12:38] <waffl3x> but the good news is when I dont have to keep restarting it it will be fine
[12:38] <kaeru> studio-controls
[12:38] <waffl3x> the bizarre thing was that QJackCtl seemed to think it was shutting off the server despite not doing so
[12:38] <waffl3x> yeah im feeling like
[12:38] <waffl3x> I should just use the distro
[12:39] <waffl3x> whats the word on sample rate
[12:40] <kaeru> I have Motu M4 and it's OK at 128 buffers and 2 periods for me
[12:41] <waffl3x> nah I mean sample rate
[12:41] <kaeru> 48k
[12:43] <waffl3x> thinking about it
[12:43] <waffl3x> I probably would have issues on ubuntu studio as well just because of my onboard card
[12:58] <MauroGaspari[m]> I think test on a fresh install are better. If you followed previous scripts or installs that modified some comfiguration files, that could clash with studio controls
[12:58] <waffl3x> its a pretty fresh install
[12:59] <waffl3x> I know pretty much everything I have done
[14:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> waffl3x: So, the question is, are you complaining or do you have an actual support question?
[14:23] <Eickmeyer[m]> This entire discussion looks like it didn't belong here. #ubuntustudio-offtopic is for general discussion, not this channel.
[14:52] <OvenWerks> The backscroll goes back to 2330 and then goes all night :)
[14:53] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: studio-controls will set up jack and pulse for you.
[14:53] <OvenWerks> qjackctl will appear to be unable to stop jack if some other application started it as jackd rather than jackdbus
[14:54] <OvenWerks> basically the only application that can stop jackd is the one that started it.
[14:54] <OvenWerks>  That is a limitation of jackd
[14:55] <OvenWerks> if you have ever used cadence (it sounds like you have) then removing it is difficult. It does add is own pulse config... and in fact recreates it every time it starts
[14:56] <OvenWerks> I am guessing they missed all of that ;)
[15:06] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: If you have ever use cadence, it will A) auto start itself at session start B) create a new pulse config file each time as well
[15:07] <OvenWerks> that is why we don't suport cadence. It is not an easy apt remove, one has to find it's extra files it has installed and remove them
[15:08] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: also, many applications will auto start jackd if it is not running when you start that application.
[15:09] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: if this happens, qjackctl will not be able to stop that instance of jackd... it will require a kill or killall -9
[15:10] <OvenWerks> waffl3x: I have found the best thing is to have jackdbus start at session start so that this never happens
[15:11] <OvenWerks> though it is also possible to chmod -x jackd I guess.
[15:13] <OvenWerks> it is also possible to add JACK_NO_START_SERVER to your environment.
[15:14] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: ^^^ perhaps we should do so by default
[15:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: That's possible (not this release). Would that get stuck in /etc/environment.d somewhere?
[15:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> Actually, I already know the answer is yes.
[15:16] <Eickmeyer[m]> We'll talk in -devel about this.
[15:27] <rgh> waffl3x: I never had good audio performance with onboard gear
[15:27] <rgh> I just don't even try any more
[15:28] <rgh> I had a potato laptop, added a behringer USB mixer (Xenyx 1404 USB) , bam .. running (pretty) low latency without xrun
[15:30] <rgh> OvenWerks: people said they prefer Cadence over Studio Controls because they could easily switch on/off services and also decide what to auto-run on start-up
[15:30] <rgh> any comments on that ?
[15:31] <rgh> besides : why the hell would you want to do that ? (that's what I think)
[15:33] <Eickmeyer[m]> rgh: Services are easy to turn-off using Studio Controls. With Pulse, for instance, you just need to remove all bridges and hit "Apply" and it's done; no more PulseAudio.
[15:34] <rgh> that's not easy
[15:34] <rgh> that's not a [x]
[15:34] <rgh> ^^^ awesome ascii art for a tick box
[15:34] <Eickmeyer[m]> rgh: I think he's working on a checkbox.
[15:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Probably for next version.
[15:35] <rgh> cool
[15:35] <rgh> well cool for the people who need that :-)
[15:35] <Eickmeyer[m]> Would still require the "apply" button, which isn't beyond imagination.
[15:39] <MauroGaspari[m]> OvenWerks: I used both and Studio Controls wins for me. It is very easy to understand, well presented, and has easy icons to access carla, qasmixer, jack controls. I really think it is the best especially for new users. I did not feel lost when I started with Studio Controls.
[16:20] <kaeru> +1 on Studio Controls having everything I need and is straightforward
[16:27] <kaeru> MauroGaspari[m]: I wrote a rather lengthy article with screenshots https://medium.com/@kaerumy/audio-and-midi-controller-on-ubuntu-linux-1058e00bc7d0
[16:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> kaeru: Such discussion belongs in #ubuntustudio-offtopic if you wouldn't mind. :)
[16:30] <kaeru> aah ok, I didn't know about that channel
[16:30] <Eickmeyer[m]> kaeru: ubuntustudio.org/community tells about it.
[16:30] <kaeru> cool, sorry for the noise
[18:02] <sakrecoer[m]> oh no! calf is going away from the iso? haha! too bad if they cause trouble. 😞 i understand but i will miss them (as in investigate how to install them myself 😅) the compressor, reverb, mono-synth... 💥 i think the only one I've never used is the vocoder, because i don't manage to wrap my head around it.
[18:04] <sakrecoer[m]> multi-band compressor is so tasty... limiter so powerful!
[20:22] <Eickmeyer[m]> 徒 𝖘𝖊𝖙𝖙𝖔 セット🕸️🏴️: We do have dragonfly-reverb, the LSP plugins, and more that might even be better. Calf is still in the repos, though.
[21:01] <OvenWerks> rgh: I have no problem with people using Cadence at all. The big thing that Cadence did not take care of was those horrible USB mic things.
[21:02] <OvenWerks> rgh: studio-controls makes using a USB mic pretty much automatic
[21:03] <OvenWerks> rgh: it is on my list (probably after a Cadence refresh) to make studio-controls able to work with cadence either when Cadence is turned off or even if it has started jack.
[21:05] <OvenWerks> rgh however, I know falktx considers Cadence in it's current form pretty much depricated. It is on his list for a refresh, I would prefer to see where things are after that.
[21:05] <OvenWerks> rgh: of course pipewire will change the whole mess as well.
[21:10] <OvenWerks> rgh: about your comment on auto-runing things. I am not sure what you mean. studio controls does autorun jack, a2jmidid, zita-ajbridge, pulse modules and jack_connect already, do mean more than that? What services would you like to easily switch on and off?
[21:15] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer[m]: calf is substandard in almost anyway that you look at it. WHile it is still in the repo, we do not want budding engineers to get used to the way calf sounds as somehow correct. Many people who use ubuntustudio for sound production have never used even a FOH mixer for some sort of reference as to how things work. We want ubuntustudio to have the best packages, Calf does not meet that
[21:15] <OvenWerks> requirement.
[21:16] <OvenWerks> (the srcews don't even work to remove the rackmounted modules  ;)