daftykinsi can't for the life of me work out what creates the paths /usr/lib/modules/<kernel version here>/02:18
daftykinsi have a VM with those and a VM without, the one without is unable to load the xenfs module i'm after02:18
daftykinsi've been running dpkg -L against the kernel, kernel module and kernel header packages but nothing seems to create the above path O_O02:19
daftykinsok ignore *all* that xD02:25
daftykinsmodprobe claimed the module wasn't there, "sudo depmod" updated its' opinion and now it's loaded fine02:26
sarnoldbut I'd still like to know where /usr/lib/modules comes from..02:26
sarnoldare they owned by another path in dpkg, that's symlinked, and thus you can't find them with this name?02:27
daftykinsit's a total mystery, on my normal 20.04.1 VM, i see:02:28
daftykinsdrwxr-xr-x  5 root root 4.0K Oct 20 02:20 5.4.0-52-generic02:28
daftykinsinside /usr/lib/modules02:28
daftykinsinside that are - https://termbin.com/0r3t02:28
daftykinsbut yeah, just can't get a handle on what puts them there02:29
daftykinsoooh ok, my bionic machine doesn't have that path - one comment i can make is that the VM that does have this path has been doing some compilation02:29
daftykinscould build-essential do something with this o002:29
Bashing-omdaftykins: Bog standard bare metal: "sysop@2004x-c:~$ ls -al /usr/lib/modules/ >> ls: cannot access '/usr/lib/modules/': No such file or directory".02:33
daftykinsindeedy! so i was wrong earlier to think it was default02:34
lotuspsychjegood morning03:38
ducassegood morning06:23
mgedmindaftykins: kernel modules live in /lib/modules, but on recent ubuntus /lib is a symlink to /usr/lib07:04
=== PowaBanga_ is now known as PowaBanga
lordievaderGood morning07:29
=== ledeni_ is now known as ledeni
daftykinsmgedmin: that wasn't the case on any of my focal VMs17:28
mgedminthe /lib symlink?17:36
mgedminhuh, I though usrmerge was installed by default, but I see that it's no longer the case17:36
daftykinsi ended up throwing in the towel and going to bed, if i "apt install --reinstall" 'd the linux-modules package for the running kernel, i got the xenfs module back that i wanted, but for some reason on every reboot it disappeared again17:37
daftykinsi have absolutely no idea what was causing that17:37
mgedminhmmm this laptop was installed from ubuntu 9.04, never had usrmerge installed, and has /lib -> /usr/lib symlink (plus /bin, /sbin, and a few /lib{32,64,x32})17:38
mgedminthat is very strange17:39
tomreyn/lib and /usr/lib are separate on an ubuntu installation from 2015, which is now at 18.04, and went through 14.04 and 16.0417:48
tomreynan installation i have here, this wasn't meant to be a generic statement.17:49
mgedminI've an ubuntu 18.04 server originally installed in 2009 that still has separate /lib and /usr/lib17:52
mgedminafaiu ubuntu will not force a migration to unified /usr, but you can opt in by installing usrmerge17:52
mgedminanother machine was installed from ubuntu gnome 16.04.1 lts and also has separate /usr17:53
mgedmina cloud VPS from ovh with ubuntu 18.04 lts also has a separate /usr17:54
daftykinsi would have to say that trying to give answers from a system with that much history is going to be fraught with errors because you don't know what might have been dragged along with it17:54
mgedminoh I keep a changelog on every machine17:55
daftykinsthat doesn't sound practical17:57
mgedminit's very helpful17:59
mgedmin"how did I deal with the apache 2.2 -> 2.4 transition?  oh I can look it up on server X's changelog"18:00
daftykinsi don't see such notes giving you a detailed specific answer as to the full change history from one version to the next, since upgrades sometimes take a different path depending on what you have18:01
daftykinsa clean install could still feel quite alien to someone that'd just taken upgrade paths18:01
mgedminmaybe?  I've done a number of clean installs and even more upgrades, and I feel at home on every system18:04
daftykinsalright, well disappearing modules is a new one on me :D18:05
mgedminto me too!18:06
mgedminI've been using ubuntu since 4.10, and I've never heard of kernel modules just disappearing18:07
mgedmindebsums -c linux-modules-$(uname -r)18:07
tomreynusrmerge is in universe in all supported releases - https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=usrmerge - so IF there is or was a mechanism what would carry out the change, it would have done it without usrmerge.18:17
mgedminI think it's the installer that uses the new merged /usr layout since about 18.10 or 19.0418:20
mgedmindocker run --rm ubuntu:bionic ls -l / vs docker run --rm ubuntu:focal ls -l /18:21
mgedminyeah cosmic vs disco show that it happened in 19.0418:22
tomreyn*which* installer then? all of them?18:24
tomreynchoose from: subiquity, d-i, ubiquity, calamares, debootstrap, cdebootstrap, and those others i'm forgetting. ;)18:25
tomreynwhatever builds cloud images, too.18:26
mgedminnewer releases don't support d-i, and I don't think deboostrap and friends were ever officially supported?18:38
mgedminhuh, no mention of /usr merge in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiscoDingo/ReleaseNotes18:39
mgedminwow ubuntu originally planned to support merged /usr since quantal! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/Quantal/UsrMerge18:41
mgedminand there was an announcement about merged /usr for new installs to ubuntu-devel@ mailing list at the beginning of disco's development18:42
mgedmindebootstrap uses merged /usr by default since 1.0.102: https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge18:42
JPSmanits at the top of ycombinators hacker news21:51
oerheks1tons of it, and twitter should give trend :-D21:51
oerheks1now flash is dead...21:51
daftykinswhat relevance does flash have?21:53
jeremy31flash gordon?21:54
daftykinsGordon's alive!21:56
oerheks1flash itself is not important, just in the timeline21:56
JPSmanflash was so easy to create animations for though21:56
JPSmanI havn't seen something can compare since21:57
JPSmanis there some kinda of Macromedia Flash Studio for HTML5?21:57
JPSmanoff topic21:57
tomreynhttps://twitter.com/search?q=youtube-dl mirror22:01
tomreyns/ /%20/g22:01
oerheks1I think youtube is funny. on Mac and Windows i get ads in between. on ubuntu it is free of ads.22:02
oerheks1They don't want anyone to share this code: mplayer $(echo -s "http://youtube.com/get_video.php?$(curl $youtube_url | sed -n "/watch_fullscreen/s;.*\(video_id.\+\)&title.*;\1;p")&fmt=22")22:08
sarnoldomg think of taylor swift before you post that!22:10
jeremy31She won't get a headache, need a brain for that to happen22:11
oerheks1taylor swift, i had to bing that.22:13
sarnoldraii used one of her songs as justification for the takedown notice22:13
tomreynhttps://code.hackerspace.pl/q3k/youtube-dl is the most recent git copy i found22:15
tomreyn(i haven't checked authenticity)22:16
sarnoldtomreyn: maybe just purge that package? -boost- packages are (usually? always?) just source code and probably not important for anything at runtime, just the next time sometihng that uses boost is compiled23:15
tomreynsarnold: okay, will try, thanks23:17
tomreyni want to go for apt-forktracer next, also, hope this will clarify it23:17
sarnoldoh good idea23:17
sarnoldthat's a useful thing, I never think of it first though :) heh23:17
tomreynnor does anyone else, documentation on steps needed before release upgrade would certainly help.23:20
tomreyn(we may have discussed this before)23:20
sarnoldand most devs never even think of it because we almost never step outside the main archive, never pin things, etc23:28
tomreynhmm, a lot of (non ubuntu) dev's coming to #ubuntu do habe third party repositories.23:46
sarnoldway more than I'd ever expect23:47
sarnoldand some folks have ~2023:47
tomreynSbur3 has more :)23:49
tomreynwell collected across three ubuntu releases23:49
sarnoldoh my :)23:49
tomreynit's not that uncommon, really23:52
tomreyni agree that corporates (whose output you probably see most) will likely be more careful about which third party repositories they activate23:54
sarnoldI hope so23:55
sarnoldI mean, it's an odd situation ... open source is built on the contribution of thousands of people you'll never meet23:55
sarnoldbut giving all those people root on your system is a bit strange23:55
tomreynvery much so. i don't think most people are aware that they do so by activating third party repositories.23:56
tomreynand i don't think anyone but a select few like those hanging around here daily, are aware that you can end up with such 'foreign' 'leftovers'23:57
sarnoldyeah, irc is good for learning those kinds of things23:58

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