[02:18] <daftykins> i can't for the life of me work out what creates the paths /usr/lib/modules/<kernel version here>/
[02:18] <daftykins> i have a VM with those and a VM without, the one without is unable to load the xenfs module i'm after
[02:19] <daftykins> i've been running dpkg -L against the kernel, kernel module and kernel header packages but nothing seems to create the above path O_O
[02:25] <daftykins> ok ignore *all* that xD
[02:26] <daftykins> modprobe claimed the module wasn't there, "sudo depmod" updated its' opinion and now it's loaded fine
[02:26] <sarnold> \o/
[02:26] <sarnold> but I'd still like to know where /usr/lib/modules comes from..
[02:27] <sarnold> are they owned by another path in dpkg, that's symlinked, and thus you can't find them with this name?
[02:28] <daftykins> it's a total mystery, on my normal 20.04.1 VM, i see:
[02:28] <daftykins> drwxr-xr-x  5 root root 4.0K Oct 20 02:20 5.4.0-52-generic
[02:28] <daftykins> inside /usr/lib/modules
[02:28] <daftykins> inside that are - https://termbin.com/0r3t
[02:29] <daftykins> but yeah, just can't get a handle on what puts them there
[02:29] <daftykins> oooh ok, my bionic machine doesn't have that path - one comment i can make is that the VM that does have this path has been doing some compilation
[02:29] <daftykins> could build-essential do something with this o0
[02:33] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Bog standard bare metal: "sysop@2004x-c:~$ ls -al /usr/lib/modules/ >> ls: cannot access '/usr/lib/modules/': No such file or directory".
[02:34] <daftykins> indeedy! so i was wrong earlier to think it was default
[03:38] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[06:23] <ducasse> good morning
[07:04] <mgedmin> daftykins: kernel modules live in /lib/modules, but on recent ubuntus /lib is a symlink to /usr/lib
[07:29] <lordievader> Good morning
[08:42] <marcoagpinto> Heya
[17:28] <daftykins> mgedmin: that wasn't the case on any of my focal VMs
[17:36] <mgedmin> the /lib symlink?
[17:36] <mgedmin> huh, I though usrmerge was installed by default, but I see that it's no longer the case
[17:37] <daftykins> i ended up throwing in the towel and going to bed, if i "apt install --reinstall" 'd the linux-modules package for the running kernel, i got the xenfs module back that i wanted, but for some reason on every reboot it disappeared again
[17:37] <daftykins> i have absolutely no idea what was causing that
[17:38] <mgedmin> hmmm this laptop was installed from ubuntu 9.04, never had usrmerge installed, and has /lib -> /usr/lib symlink (plus /bin, /sbin, and a few /lib{32,64,x32})
[17:39] <mgedmin> that is very strange
[17:48] <tomreyn> /lib and /usr/lib are separate on an ubuntu installation from 2015, which is now at 18.04, and went through 14.04 and 16.04
[17:49] <tomreyn> an installation i have here, this wasn't meant to be a generic statement.
[17:52] <mgedmin> I've an ubuntu 18.04 server originally installed in 2009 that still has separate /lib and /usr/lib
[17:52] <mgedmin> afaiu ubuntu will not force a migration to unified /usr, but you can opt in by installing usrmerge
[17:53] <mgedmin> another machine was installed from ubuntu gnome 16.04.1 lts and also has separate /usr
[17:54] <mgedmin> a cloud VPS from ovh with ubuntu 18.04 lts also has a separate /usr
[17:54] <daftykins> i would have to say that trying to give answers from a system with that much history is going to be fraught with errors because you don't know what might have been dragged along with it
[17:55] <mgedmin> oh I keep a changelog on every machine
[17:57] <daftykins> that doesn't sound practical
[17:59] <mgedmin> it's very helpful
[18:00] <mgedmin> "how did I deal with the apache 2.2 -> 2.4 transition?  oh I can look it up on server X's changelog"
[18:01] <daftykins> i don't see such notes giving you a detailed specific answer as to the full change history from one version to the next, since upgrades sometimes take a different path depending on what you have
[18:01] <daftykins> a clean install could still feel quite alien to someone that'd just taken upgrade paths
[18:04] <mgedmin> maybe?  I've done a number of clean installs and even more upgrades, and I feel at home on every system
[18:05] <daftykins> alright, well disappearing modules is a new one on me :D
[18:06] <mgedmin> to me too!
[18:07] <mgedmin> I've been using ubuntu since 4.10, and I've never heard of kernel modules just disappearing
[18:07] <mgedmin> debsums -c linux-modules-$(uname -r)
[18:17] <tomreyn> usrmerge is in universe in all supported releases - https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=usrmerge - so IF there is or was a mechanism what would carry out the change, it would have done it without usrmerge.
[18:20] <mgedmin> I think it's the installer that uses the new merged /usr layout since about 18.10 or 19.04
[18:21] <mgedmin> docker run --rm ubuntu:bionic ls -l / vs docker run --rm ubuntu:focal ls -l /
[18:22] <mgedmin> yeah cosmic vs disco show that it happened in 19.04
[18:24] <tomreyn> *which* installer then? all of them?
[18:25] <tomreyn> choose from: subiquity, d-i, ubiquity, calamares, debootstrap, cdebootstrap, and those others i'm forgetting. ;)
[18:26] <tomreyn> whatever builds cloud images, too.
[18:38] <mgedmin> newer releases don't support d-i, and I don't think deboostrap and friends were ever officially supported?
[18:39] <mgedmin> huh, no mention of /usr merge in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DiscoDingo/ReleaseNotes
[18:41] <mgedmin> wow ubuntu originally planned to support merged /usr since quantal! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/Quantal/UsrMerge
[18:42] <mgedmin> and there was an announcement about merged /usr for new installs to ubuntu-devel@ mailing list at the beginning of disco's development
[18:42] <mgedmin> debootstrap uses merged /usr by default since 1.0.102: https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
[21:51] <oerheks1> :-)
[21:51] <oerheks1> https://www.zdnet.com/article/riaa-blitz-takes-down-18-github-projects-used-for-downloading-youtube-videos/
[21:51] <JPSman> its at the top of ycombinators hacker news
[21:51] <oerheks1> tons of it, and twitter should give trend :-D
[21:51] <oerheks1> now flash is dead...
[21:53] <daftykins> what relevance does flash have?
[21:54] <jeremy31> flash gordon?
[21:56] <daftykins> Gordon's alive!
[21:56] <oerheks1> flash itself is not important, just in the timeline
[21:56] <JPSman> flash was so easy to create animations for though
[21:57] <JPSman> I havn't seen something can compare since
[21:57] <JPSman> is there some kinda of Macromedia Flash Studio for HTML5?
[21:57] <JPSman> nvm
[21:57] <JPSman> off topic
[22:01] <tomreyn> https://twitter.com/search?q=youtube-dl mirror
[22:01] <tomreyn> s/ /%20/g
[22:02] <oerheks1> I think youtube is funny. on Mac and Windows i get ads in between. on ubuntu it is free of ads.
[22:08] <oerheks1> They don't want anyone to share this code: mplayer $(echo -s "http://youtube.com/get_video.php?$(curl $youtube_url | sed -n "/watch_fullscreen/s;.＊\(video_id.\+\)&title.＊;\1;p")&fmt=22")
[22:10] <sarnold> omg think of taylor swift before you post that!
[22:11] <jeremy31> She won't get a headache, need a brain for that to happen
[22:13] <oerheks1> taylor swift, i had to bing that.
[22:13] <sarnold> raii used one of her songs as justification for the takedown notice
[22:15] <tomreyn> https://code.hackerspace.pl/q3k/youtube-dl is the most recent git copy i found
[22:16] <tomreyn> (i haven't checked authenticity)
[23:15] <sarnold> tomreyn: maybe just purge that package? -boost- packages are (usually? always?) just source code and probably not important for anything at runtime, just the next time sometihng that uses boost is compiled
[23:17] <tomreyn> sarnold: okay, will try, thanks
[23:17] <tomreyn> i want to go for apt-forktracer next, also, hope this will clarify it
[23:17] <sarnold> oh good idea
[23:17] <sarnold> that's a useful thing, I never think of it first though :) heh
[23:20] <tomreyn> nor does anyone else, documentation on steps needed before release upgrade would certainly help.
[23:20] <tomreyn> (we may have discussed this before)
[23:28] <sarnold> and most devs never even think of it because we almost never step outside the main archive, never pin things, etc
[23:46] <tomreyn> hmm, a lot of (non ubuntu) dev's coming to #ubuntu do habe third party repositories.
[23:47] <sarnold> way more than I'd ever expect
[23:47] <sarnold> and some folks have ~20
[23:49] <tomreyn> Sbur3 has more :)
[23:49] <tomreyn> well collected across three ubuntu releases
[23:49] <sarnold> oh my :)
[23:52] <tomreyn> it's not that uncommon, really
[23:54] <tomreyn> i agree that corporates (whose output you probably see most) will likely be more careful about which third party repositories they activate
[23:55] <sarnold> I hope so
[23:55] <sarnold> I mean, it's an odd situation ... open source is built on the contribution of thousands of people you'll never meet
[23:55] <sarnold> but giving all those people root on your system is a bit strange
[23:56] <tomreyn> very much so. i don't think most people are aware that they do so by activating third party repositories.
[23:57] <tomreyn> and i don't think anyone but a select few like those hanging around here daily, are aware that you can end up with such 'foreign' 'leftovers'
[23:58] <sarnold> yeah, irc is good for learning those kinds of things