/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2020/12/14/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

rbasako/14:54
tewardo/14:55
tewardsil2100: are you going to chair or do I have to :p14:55
sil2100o/14:55
teward'cause you're up on the chair list today14:55
sil2100Well, it's still 5 minutes till the meeting14:55
sil2100But I can chair14:55
tewardi'm just making sure you're here first ;)(14:55
tewardbecause if you ain't i'm probably stepping up again :p14:55
slyono/14:57
ddstreeto/ here but getting coffee refill before we get started14:58
tewardddstreet: go get me some while you're at it xD15:00
sil2100#startmeeting Developer Membership Board meeting15:00
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Dec 14 15:00:14 2020 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.15:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick15:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board meeting | Current topic:
tewardo/  (refilling coffee as well)15:00
sil2100I think we have quorum, so let's start o/15:00
sil2100Welcome everyone, let's start off with the previous items15:00
sil2100#topic Review of previous action items15:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items
tewardsil, ddstreet, rbasak, me.  that's 4 of 7 so we do have quorum :P15:01
sil2100So we have a few items with Dan in the name15:01
sil2100ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)15:01
sil2100ddstreet: once you're back, how's things with re ^ ?15:01
ddstreetyes please carry over again, my goal is to get to that first thing next year15:02
sil2100Ok, no problem15:02
sil2100#action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)15:02
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)15:02
sil2100ddstreet to ping TB to check on kernel-dkms packageset creation15:02
ddstreetthat is done, but there are 2 new action items i need to do for it, first i need to update our KB with the details for asking for a new packageset (specifically re: owner and who adds the packages)15:03
sil2100Do we have the kernel-dkms packageset already?15:03
ddstreetalso i need to add the packages to the packageset15:03
ddstreetbut the TB has created the packageset for us already15:03
tewardso i'd say spin two new action items for that15:03
sil2100Yeah, let's do that, can those be assigned to you then?15:04
ddstreeti can take them both, should be quick15:04
ddstreetyeah15:04
sil2100#action ddstreet to update the KnowledgeBase with details regarding creation of new packagesets15:04
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet to update the KnowledgeBase with details regarding creation of new packagesets15:04
sil2100#action ddstreet to add DKMS packages to the new kernel-dkms packageset15:04
meetingologyACTION: ddstreet to add DKMS packages to the new kernel-dkms packageset15:04
sil2100Awesome15:04
sil2100Ok, this one seems done: ddstreet discuss with slashd plans for DMB involvement or stepping down before next election15:05
ddstreetyep done15:05
sil2100Now a few from rbasak15:05
sil2100rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)15:05
rbasakCarry over please. I've been away, but hope to hit this one up properly in January after the vacation period.15:05
sil2100rbasak: I think I'm a bit detached from that one, any progress?15:05
sil2100Ok!15:06
sil2100Yeah, let's carry over then15:06
sil2100#action rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)15:06
meetingologyACTION: rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)15:06
sil2100rbasak to handle private ML request15:06
rbasakDone15:06
sil2100\o/15:06
sil2100Ok, that's all the previous action items15:06
sil2100Let's move on to our applications for today15:07
sil2100#topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications15:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board meeting | Current topic: Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
sil2100#subtopic nick black for notcurses/growlight PPU15:07
rbasakSee devel-permissions@ just now15:07
sil2100So, I saw the follow up e-mail from Robie regarding this application15:07
rbasakI believe he's deferring15:07
rbasakAssuming everyone's happy with my reply?15:08
sil2100Yeah, I think it made sense15:08
ddstreetyep +115:08
tewardyep15:08
sil2100It would be hard for us to make a sensible decision about upload rights for someone that we can't judge the experience from the Ubuntu POV15:08
sil2100#topic MOTU Applications15:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board meeting | Current topic: MOTU Applications
sil2100#subtopic Lukas 'slyon' Märdian, MOTU & netplan.io PPU15:09
tewardsil2100: actually, we can make that decision pretty easily, we've done it in the past (-1s exist for a reason)15:09
tewardjust to finish that note ;)15:09
sil2100#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slyon/MOTUApplication15:09
sil2100teward: yeah, what I meant is that I wouldn't be able to judge if that person is safe to upload to Ubuntu or not15:10
tewardjust a heads up: this is a dual part application - part MOTU and part PPU - i'd evaluate those as two separate votes.15:10
tewardmy 2 cents.15:10
teward(for sylon)15:10
slyonAs noted in the subtopic, this is a combined MOTU + netplan PPU application (if that is possible)15:10
sil2100Since my -1 doesn't mean that person isn't capable of doing that, it would just mean I can't tell if that person can15:10
tewardslyon: NORMALLY we evaluate those independently15:10
tewardbut I think we can just do two votes, one on MOTU and one on PPU15:11
slyonteward: that would be great15:11
sil2100Regarding slyon's application - his application is for MOTU and netplan.io PPU, but hm, do we have any means to maybe also try to look at it from the core-dev POV?15:11
tewardsil2100: my 2 cents is unless they applied for coredev we evaluate as is15:12
tewardsince they applied for MOTU and specific PPU I was looking at it from that perspective15:12
sil2100Since I know slyon is applying for MOTU as he felt that this would be a good starting point, but since slyon is part of Foundations, he's doing most work on main packages anyway15:12
slyonI do lots of work in main as well, as part of my foundations role... Thought it would be wise to apply for MOTU first15:13
rbasakIMHO, there's no harm in adding an additional vote for core dev. DMB members who are uncomfortable doing that can just -1 and request a reapplication with more notice or whatever15:13
tewardafter evaluating i don't disagree with rbasak15:13
tewardso we should do the vote in this order then:15:13
teward- Core Dev15:13
teward- MOTU (if Core Dev doesn't get quorum)15:13
teward- PPU (if Core Dev doesn't get quorum)15:13
sil2100+115:13
tewardand evaluate it from those perspective.15:13
ddstreetso slyon, do you want us to consider you for coredev as well during this mtg? your desire is most important here i think15:14
rbasakHowever we don't have endorsements for core dev15:14
sil2100Three voting opportunities sound awesome ;)15:14
slyonAbsolutely, that would be great. I talked about this with sil2100 already a few days ago15:14
tewardrbasak: if sylon doesn't want to be considered for coredev then we can defer that to Some Future Time when they're ready.15:14
tewardbut as per above... :P15:14
slyonIt improves the odds ;-)15:14
teward... bah need more coffee... back in a minute15:14
ddstreetthen the order of consideration from teward sounds right to me15:15
sil2100Well, my application basically also says I think he's a solid core-dev candidate, but yeah, I do work with slyon quite closely ;)15:15
sil2100I mean15:15
sil2100s/application/endorsement/15:15
ddstreetsil2100 well you're biased since you share the same first name, obviously ;-)15:15
tewardhah15:15
tewardANYWAYS, sylon how about you introduce yourself while we review?15:15
sil2100haha, indeed! You can't imagine how confusing on meetings it is right now15:16
ddstreetlol15:16
slyonI did not list my main work/packages in the application explicitly, but worked on the likes of: dnspython, python-httplib2, pexpect, sensible-utils, s390-tools[-signed], command-not-found, klibc, curl, ...15:16
slyonteward: sure. So my Name is Lukas, I'm 30 years old, living in germany.15:16
slyonI joined Canonical in early 2020 as part of the foundations team and netplan co-maintainer15:16
slyonHave been a long time open source contributor since ~2009, working mainly on mobile/handheld based projects like the SHR operating system (OpenEmbedded/Yocto based) or the FreeSmartphone.org middleware15:17
slyonI helped packaging some of this work for Debian as well.15:18
slyonAlso I did some device driver development for Letux/GTA04 devices, which partly landed in mainline15:18
slyon(this was mostly battery, input and display driver work)15:18
rbasakIf xnox, rbalint or cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?15:19
slyonI've been using Ubuntu since 2006, which made me stick to running Linux and open source software exclusively and I'm very happy to be in a position to contribute to Ubuntu now.15:19
rbasakIn other words, do you think he's ready for core dev now, or should he continue sponsored uploads for a while first?15:20
slyonwell.. I contributed a bit before as well, doing translations and themes. But as part of foundations I can improve the core stuff15:20
slyonI guess that's about it... If there are any questions? Feel free to ask!15:20
rbasakslyon: have you done any +1 maintenance work yet?15:21
sil2100Ok, time for questions! (in the meantime)15:21
rbasakEg. any proposed migration issues?15:22
slyonrbasak: Not yet, just volunteered for my first +1 shift this week, which will take place in Jan15:22
slyonbut I did work on proposed migration quite a lot15:22
slyonas we do weekly proposed-migration rotations inside the foundations team15:22
slyons/rotations/assignments15:22
rbasakDo you follow your uploads through until they migrate to the release pocket? And do you know where to go to work on getting things unstuck from proposed?15:23
slyonrbasak: Yes. I always check my upload, to make sure they did not get stuck either during build or autopkgtests.15:24
slyonI check the britney outputs and test logs if needed15:24
slyonoften times flaky tests make it fail/getting stuck, in which case I ask in #ubuntu-devel for somebody to retrigger the tests for me15:24
slyonor I prepare MPs to file a hint and ask about it in #ubuntu-release15:25
rbasakOK thanks!15:25
ddstreetslyon i see you uploaded netplan for groovy on oct 14; was there any special consideration before uploading on that day? if you had uploaded a day later, oct 15, would there be any different considerations?15:27
tewardrbalint:15:27
rbalinto/15:27
teward<rbasak> If xnox, rbalint or cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?15:27
rbalintteward, yes, absolutely15:27
rbalintshould i update the wiki?15:27
tewardrbalint: nah, your statement here is sufficient (they're being reviewed right now)15:28
slyonddstreet: yes. I sneeked that one in shortly before final freeze.15:28
tewardrbalint: thanks, and sorry to detract from your upcoming meeting prep time :)15:28
rbalintteward, no prob, i'm happy to help :-)15:28
ddstreetslyon yep :) and what would you have to do if it was after final freeze?15:28
slyonI did prepare paperwork for a FeatureFreeze exception before that15:29
ddstreetperfect, thanks.15:29
* cpaelzer is reading backlog15:29
tewardcpaelzer: <rbasak> If ... cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?15:30
tewardsorry for all the pings rbasak xD15:30
ddstreetslyon when adding patches, especially for SRUs but also for devel uploads, is there any specific information that you should include in the patch file(s)?15:30
cpaelzeractually, yes I would be ok wit hthat - his work so far was rather flawless and most importantly where unsure he asked (instead of just doing things)15:30
cpaelzeralso I he lives so close that I can personally deliver punishment in case of misuse ...15:31
sil2100hahaha15:31
rbasakThanks. I'll keep that in mind :-P15:31
cpaelzerI guess for the decision at stake the former argument is more important15:31
tewardcpaelzer: hah.  thanks, cpaelzer, and sorry to have to call you in again on chaos :)15:31
cpaelzerno problem at all teward15:31
tewards/chaos/regular meeting stuff/15:31
slyonddstreet: IMO one important information to add to patches would be the upstreaming status, i.e. references the patches send to Debian or upstream (or not-needed, if that is the case), so that others can track the progress of that patch and drop it as soon as it is applied upstream15:32
slyoncpaelzer: xD15:32
ddstreetslyon is there any specific reference on what should get added to patches?15:33
slyonddstreet: oh you mean the LP bug number?15:34
slyoni.e. LP: #xxxxxx so that the bug can be traced by launchpad15:35
ddstreetdoes that go in the patch or somewhere else?15:35
slyonthat usually goes into debian/changelog but can also be part of the patch15:35
ddstreeti was getting to if there is a reference or specification for what you should add to patches15:35
ddstreetthat lists the exact format of lines to add to patches...15:36
ddstreeti was getting at DEP3, it makes me sad that not many people know about it, as it makes my (and my team's) job much easier :)15:37
ddstreetso i like to ask about it15:37
ddstreetbut really it's not critical to the process15:37
ddstreeti would suggest at least reviewing it and suggest using at least the Bug-Ubuntu and Origin fields15:38
slyonah hum.. yeah. usually those lines/templates are auto-generated by quilt so I was not sure about the reference, sorry about that15:38
ddstreetyep, good enough :)15:38
slyonI will!15:39
ddstreetno more q from me15:39
rbasakslyon: can you tell me what a seed is?15:40
rbasakAnd where would you go for more information on them?15:40
xnoxteward:  sure.15:41
slyonrbasak: a seed is a text file containing an "initial set of packages", which can be the starting point to build a new image for example, by pulling in all the seed's dependencies15:41
sil2100slyon: could you tell us if you worked on any merges already? And what does such work involve?15:41
tewardxnox: nice, thanks for your response and extending your endorsement to cover core-dev as well for sylon.  sorry to ping you in many places :)15:41
slyonseeds can be found here: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/i386.hirsute/ and are maintained by the release team15:42
slyonsil2100: Yes I did some merges already. Starting point would be https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html (or universe.html) to check for a suiteable package/merge.15:43
rbasakOK thanks. And final question: when would you need a package transition, and what are the broad steps needed to complete one?15:43
rbasakSorry, finish with sil2100 first15:43
slyonThen I would check the diffs manually and check if the current ubuntu delta is still needed or can be dropped (do a sync instead). Adopt the patches accordingly and open a tracking bug (if this is a longer standing issue, or sponsoring is needed, to note that I am working on that specific merge)15:44
slyonThe merge can be worked on with git-ubuntu or manually, preparing a debdiff for sponsors to review.15:45
sil2100Awesome, thanks o/15:45
sil2100Guess rbasak still has one open question ^15:47
slyonrbasak: I did not work on transitions too much... AFAIU they are needed for "big packages" impacting lots of other packages, like toolchains. They should be timed to not be uploaded/tested at the same time as it could entangle lots of autopkgtests and make proposed migration pretty hard15:47
rbasakThanks15:48
rbasakI'm ready to vote15:48
sil2100Ok, any other questions?15:49
tewardnone from me.15:49
sil2100#vote Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership15:50
meetingologyPlease vote on: Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership15:50
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)15:50
ddstreet+1 very good endorsements, good amount of knowledge of process details, code quality appears good15:51
meetingology+1 very good endorsements, good amount of knowledge of process details, code quality appears good received from ddstreet15:51
teward+1 good endorsements, good knowledge of process details, but I strongly encourage asking for assistance if you encounter something 'odd' or which you're not familiar with (which is good advice in general)15:51
meetingology+1 good endorsements, good knowledge of process details, but I strongly encourage asking for assistance if you encounter something 'odd' or which you're not familiar with (which is good advice in general) received from teward15:51
teward(which echoes sil and xnox's endorsement notes)15:52
tewardalso, more main package activity please :)15:52
teward(not a blocker)15:52
rbasak+1 strong endorsements, excellent track record of uploads and broad enough knowledge of Ubuntu development process.15:52
meetingology+1 strong endorsements, excellent track record of uploads and broad enough knowledge of Ubuntu development process. received from rbasak15:52
sil2100+1 (obviously as I have endorsed Lukas already, even though he is missing some experience, I am fully confident that he's capable of doing the right thing - and seeing his drive and passion regarding Ubuntu maintenance, he'll do just fine)15:53
meetingology+1 (obviously as I have endorsed Lukas already, even though he is missing some experience, I am fully confident that he's capable of doing the right thing - and seeing his drive and passion regarding Ubuntu maintenance, he'll do just fine) received from sil210015:53
rbasakCaveat: I think you broadly understand seeds and package transitions, but I'm not sure your exactly on point in the details. Please confirm your understanding with your colleagues before you touch these areas unsupervised, and look out for accidentally starting a transition when you didn't intend it.15:53
slyonYes. I have a nice group of core-devs in my team, who I can (and will) ask questions15:53
rbasak*you're15:53
tewardrbasak: sounds like the caveat the previous DMB gave me when I got core-dev.  :)15:53
slyonrbasak: will do for sure!15:53
teward(that's something everyone should get as advice though, imo)15:53
sil2100Excellent!15:53
tewardwell with that, i think we have quorum here.15:53
sil2100#endvote15:53
meetingologyVoting ended on: Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership15:53
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:015:53
meetingologyMotion carried15:53
sil2100slyon: wow, congratulations!15:54
ddstreetcongratulations!15:54
rbalintslyon, congratulations, welcome the the Core Dev Team, too! :-)15:54
slyon\o/ awesome, thanks folks!15:54
tewardSo: slyon: motu dismissed, PPU dismissed, coredev approved.  Welcome to the core dev team :)15:54
sil2100Keep up the good work and don't hesitate to ask questions, we're all here to help!15:54
rbasakCongratulations!15:54
slyonwow this is really great15:54
tewardyep, we are.  never be afraid to ask where you're unsure15:54
teward(best advice I've ever gotten - from rbasak xD)15:54
tewardxnox: rbalint: cpaelzer: thanks for your response to our pings, i know it is a minor interruption to your day, but it's appreciated :)15:54
sil2100#topic AOB15:55
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Developer Membership Board meeting | Current topic: AOB
rbasakThanks :)15:55
slyonYes. I will absolutely continue to learn about all the details15:55
sil2100Any other business?15:55
sil2100Let me deal with the permissions and announcement15:55
sil2100#action sil2100 to add slyon to core-dev15:55
meetingologyACTION: sil2100 to add slyon to core-dev15:55
sil2100#action sil2100 to announce slyon's successful application15:55
meetingologyACTION: sil2100 to announce slyon's successful application15:55
teward#subtopic Meeting FYI15:56
tewardJust an FYI: we have no DMB meetings until January thanks to the holidays.15:56
tewardnext DMB meeting will be January 1115:56
sil2100Oh, indeed!15:56
teward(this has been the case since the November meetings where we agreed to skip the holiday timeperiod's chaos.)15:56
teward(also, +o so meetingology lets me run special commands xD)15:56
sil2100Have a nice EOY everyone!15:56
slyonindeed, happy holidays everyone!15:57
sil2100Let's wrap it up then15:57
tewardsil2100: same to you as well!15:57
sil2100#endmeeting15:57
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Dec 14 15:57:14 2020 UTC.15:57
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-12-14-15.00.moin.txt15:57
ddstreetthanks all, happy holidays o/15:57
sil2100Thanks o/15:57
tewardthak you all! o/15:57
slyono/15:57

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