[14:54] <rbasak> o/
[14:55] <teward> o/
[14:55] <teward> sil2100: are you going to chair or do I have to :p
[14:55] <sil2100> o/
[14:55] <teward> 'cause you're up on the chair list today
[14:55] <sil2100> Well, it's still 5 minutes till the meeting
[14:55] <sil2100> But I can chair
[14:55] <teward> i'm just making sure you're here first ;)(
[14:55] <teward> because if you ain't i'm probably stepping up again :p
[14:57] <slyon> o/
[14:58] <ddstreet> o/ here but getting coffee refill before we get started
[15:00] <teward> ddstreet: go get me some while you're at it xD
[15:00] <sil2100> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board meeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Dec 14 15:00:14 2020 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:00] <teward> o/  (refilling coffee as well)
[15:00] <sil2100> I think we have quorum, so let's start o/
[15:00] <sil2100> Welcome everyone, let's start off with the previous items
[15:00] <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:01] <teward> sil, ddstreet, rbasak, me.  that's 4 of 7 so we do have quorum :P
[15:01] <sil2100> So we have a few items with Dan in the name
[15:01] <sil2100> ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:01] <sil2100> ddstreet: once you're back, how's things with re ^ ?
[15:02] <ddstreet> yes please carry over again, my goal is to get to that first thing next year
[15:02] <sil2100> Ok, no problem
[15:02] <sil2100> #action ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:02] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet edubuntu seed <-> pkgset (carried over)
[15:02] <sil2100> ddstreet to ping TB to check on kernel-dkms packageset creation
[15:03] <ddstreet> that is done, but there are 2 new action items i need to do for it, first i need to update our KB with the details for asking for a new packageset (specifically re: owner and who adds the packages)
[15:03] <sil2100> Do we have the kernel-dkms packageset already?
[15:03] <ddstreet> also i need to add the packages to the packageset
[15:03] <ddstreet> but the TB has created the packageset for us already
[15:03] <teward> so i'd say spin two new action items for that
[15:04] <sil2100> Yeah, let's do that, can those be assigned to you then?
[15:04] <ddstreet> i can take them both, should be quick
[15:04] <ddstreet> yeah
[15:04] <sil2100> #action ddstreet to update the KnowledgeBase with details regarding creation of new packagesets
[15:04] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to update the KnowledgeBase with details regarding creation of new packagesets
[15:04] <sil2100> #action ddstreet to add DKMS packages to the new kernel-dkms packageset
[15:04] <meetingology> ACTION: ddstreet to add DKMS packages to the new kernel-dkms packageset
[15:04] <sil2100> Awesome
[15:05] <sil2100> Ok, this one seems done: ddstreet discuss with slashd plans for DMB involvement or stepping down before next election
[15:05] <ddstreet> yep done
[15:05] <sil2100> Now a few from rbasak
[15:05] <sil2100> rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:05] <rbasak> Carry over please. I've been away, but hope to hit this one up properly in January after the vacation period.
[15:05] <sil2100> rbasak: I think I'm a bit detached from that one, any progress?
[15:06] <sil2100> Ok!
[15:06] <sil2100> Yeah, let's carry over then
[15:06] <sil2100> #action rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:06] <meetingology> ACTION: rbasak to reply to ML re: canonical-oem-metapackages packageset and owning team creation (carried over)
[15:06] <sil2100> rbasak to handle private ML request
[15:06] <rbasak> Done
[15:06] <sil2100> \o/
[15:06] <sil2100> Ok, that's all the previous action items
[15:07] <sil2100> Let's move on to our applications for today
[15:07] <sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
[15:07] <sil2100> #subtopic nick black for notcurses/growlight PPU
[15:07] <rbasak> See devel-permissions@ just now
[15:07] <sil2100> So, I saw the follow up e-mail from Robie regarding this application
[15:07] <rbasak> I believe he's deferring
[15:08] <rbasak> Assuming everyone's happy with my reply?
[15:08] <sil2100> Yeah, I think it made sense
[15:08] <ddstreet> yep +1
[15:08] <teward> yep
[15:08] <sil2100> It would be hard for us to make a sensible decision about upload rights for someone that we can't judge the experience from the Ubuntu POV
[15:09] <sil2100> #topic MOTU Applications
[15:09] <sil2100> #subtopic Lukas 'slyon' Märdian, MOTU & netplan.io PPU
[15:09] <teward> sil2100: actually, we can make that decision pretty easily, we've done it in the past (-1s exist for a reason)
[15:09] <teward> just to finish that note ;)
[15:09] <sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slyon/MOTUApplication
[15:10] <sil2100> teward: yeah, what I meant is that I wouldn't be able to judge if that person is safe to upload to Ubuntu or not
[15:10] <teward> just a heads up: this is a dual part application - part MOTU and part PPU - i'd evaluate those as two separate votes.
[15:10] <teward> my 2 cents.
[15:10] <teward> (for sylon)
[15:10] <slyon> As noted in the subtopic, this is a combined MOTU + netplan PPU application (if that is possible)
[15:10] <sil2100> Since my -1 doesn't mean that person isn't capable of doing that, it would just mean I can't tell if that person can
[15:10] <teward> slyon: NORMALLY we evaluate those independently
[15:11] <teward> but I think we can just do two votes, one on MOTU and one on PPU
[15:11] <slyon> teward: that would be great
[15:11] <sil2100> Regarding slyon's application - his application is for MOTU and netplan.io PPU, but hm, do we have any means to maybe also try to look at it from the core-dev POV?
[15:12] <teward> sil2100: my 2 cents is unless they applied for coredev we evaluate as is
[15:12] <teward> since they applied for MOTU and specific PPU I was looking at it from that perspective
[15:12] <sil2100> Since I know slyon is applying for MOTU as he felt that this would be a good starting point, but since slyon is part of Foundations, he's doing most work on main packages anyway
[15:13] <slyon> I do lots of work in main as well, as part of my foundations role... Thought it would be wise to apply for MOTU first
[15:13] <rbasak> IMHO, there's no harm in adding an additional vote for core dev. DMB members who are uncomfortable doing that can just -1 and request a reapplication with more notice or whatever
[15:13] <teward> after evaluating i don't disagree with rbasak
[15:13] <teward> so we should do the vote in this order then:
[15:13] <teward> - Core Dev
[15:13] <teward> - MOTU (if Core Dev doesn't get quorum)
[15:13] <teward> - PPU (if Core Dev doesn't get quorum)
[15:13] <sil2100> +1
[15:13] <teward> and evaluate it from those perspective.
[15:14] <ddstreet> so slyon, do you want us to consider you for coredev as well during this mtg? your desire is most important here i think
[15:14] <rbasak> However we don't have endorsements for core dev
[15:14] <sil2100> Three voting opportunities sound awesome ;)
[15:14] <slyon> Absolutely, that would be great. I talked about this with sil2100 already a few days ago
[15:14] <teward> rbasak: if sylon doesn't want to be considered for coredev then we can defer that to Some Future Time when they're ready.
[15:14] <teward> but as per above... :P
[15:14] <slyon> It improves the odds ;-)
[15:14] <teward> ... bah need more coffee... back in a minute
[15:15] <ddstreet> then the order of consideration from teward sounds right to me
[15:15] <sil2100> Well, my application basically also says I think he's a solid core-dev candidate, but yeah, I do work with slyon quite closely ;)
[15:15] <sil2100> I mean
[15:15] <sil2100> s/application/endorsement/
[15:15] <ddstreet> sil2100 well you're biased since you share the same first name, obviously ;-)
[15:15] <teward> hah
[15:15] <teward> ANYWAYS, sylon how about you introduce yourself while we review?
[15:16] <sil2100> haha, indeed! You can't imagine how confusing on meetings it is right now
[15:16] <ddstreet> lol
[15:16] <slyon> I did not list my main work/packages in the application explicitly, but worked on the likes of: dnspython, python-httplib2, pexpect, sensible-utils, s390-tools[-signed], command-not-found, klibc, curl, ...
[15:16] <slyon> teward: sure. So my Name is Lukas, I'm 30 years old, living in germany.
[15:16] <slyon> I joined Canonical in early 2020 as part of the foundations team and netplan co-maintainer
[15:17] <slyon> Have been a long time open source contributor since ~2009, working mainly on mobile/handheld based projects like the SHR operating system (OpenEmbedded/Yocto based) or the FreeSmartphone.org middleware
[15:18] <slyon> I helped packaging some of this work for Debian as well.
[15:18] <slyon> Also I did some device driver development for Letux/GTA04 devices, which partly landed in mainline
[15:18] <slyon> (this was mostly battery, input and display driver work)
[15:19] <rbasak> If xnox, rbalint or cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?
[15:19] <slyon> I've been using Ubuntu since 2006, which made me stick to running Linux and open source software exclusively and I'm very happy to be in a position to contribute to Ubuntu now.
[15:20] <rbasak> In other words, do you think he's ready for core dev now, or should he continue sponsored uploads for a while first?
[15:20] <slyon> well.. I contributed a bit before as well, doing translations and themes. But as part of foundations I can improve the core stuff
[15:20] <slyon> I guess that's about it... If there are any questions? Feel free to ask!
[15:21] <rbasak> slyon: have you done any +1 maintenance work yet?
[15:21] <sil2100> Ok, time for questions! (in the meantime)
[15:22] <rbasak> Eg. any proposed migration issues?
[15:22] <slyon> rbasak: Not yet, just volunteered for my first +1 shift this week, which will take place in Jan
[15:22] <slyon> but I did work on proposed migration quite a lot
[15:22] <slyon> as we do weekly proposed-migration rotations inside the foundations team
[15:22] <slyon> s/rotations/assignments
[15:23] <rbasak> Do you follow your uploads through until they migrate to the release pocket? And do you know where to go to work on getting things unstuck from proposed?
[15:24] <slyon> rbasak: Yes. I always check my upload, to make sure they did not get stuck either during build or autopkgtests.
[15:24] <slyon> I check the britney outputs and test logs if needed
[15:24] <slyon> often times flaky tests make it fail/getting stuck, in which case I ask in #ubuntu-devel for somebody to retrigger the tests for me
[15:25] <slyon> or I prepare MPs to file a hint and ask about it in #ubuntu-release
[15:25] <rbasak> OK thanks!
[15:27] <ddstreet> slyon i see you uploaded netplan for groovy on oct 14; was there any special consideration before uploading on that day? if you had uploaded a day later, oct 15, would there be any different considerations?
[15:27] <teward> rbalint:
[15:27] <rbalint> o/
 If xnox, rbalint or cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?
[15:27] <rbalint> teward, yes, absolutely
[15:27] <rbalint> should i update the wiki?
[15:28] <teward> rbalint: nah, your statement here is sufficient (they're being reviewed right now)
[15:28] <slyon> ddstreet: yes. I sneeked that one in shortly before final freeze.
[15:28] <teward> rbalint: thanks, and sorry to detract from your upcoming meeting prep time :)
[15:28] <rbalint> teward, no prob, i'm happy to help :-)
[15:28] <ddstreet> slyon yep :) and what would you have to do if it was after final freeze?
[15:29] <slyon> I did prepare paperwork for a FeatureFreeze exception before that
[15:29] <ddstreet> perfect, thanks.
[15:29]  * cpaelzer is reading backlog
[15:30] <teward> cpaelzer: <rbasak> If ... cpaelzer are around, would you be willing to extend your endorsement for slyon to core dev?
[15:30] <teward> sorry for all the pings rbasak xD
[15:30] <ddstreet> slyon when adding patches, especially for SRUs but also for devel uploads, is there any specific information that you should include in the patch file(s)?
[15:30] <cpaelzer> actually, yes I would be ok wit hthat - his work so far was rather flawless and most importantly where unsure he asked (instead of just doing things)
[15:31] <cpaelzer> also I he lives so close that I can personally deliver punishment in case of misuse ...
[15:31] <sil2100> hahaha
[15:31] <rbasak> Thanks. I'll keep that in mind :-P
[15:31] <cpaelzer> I guess for the decision at stake the former argument is more important
[15:31] <teward> cpaelzer: hah.  thanks, cpaelzer, and sorry to have to call you in again on chaos :)
[15:31] <cpaelzer> no problem at all teward
[15:31] <teward> s/chaos/regular meeting stuff/
[15:32] <slyon> ddstreet: IMO one important information to add to patches would be the upstreaming status, i.e. references the patches send to Debian or upstream (or not-needed, if that is the case), so that others can track the progress of that patch and drop it as soon as it is applied upstream
[15:32] <slyon> cpaelzer: xD
[15:33] <ddstreet> slyon is there any specific reference on what should get added to patches?
[15:34] <slyon> ddstreet: oh you mean the LP bug number?
[15:35] <slyon> i.e. LP: #xxxxxx so that the bug can be traced by launchpad
[15:35] <ddstreet> does that go in the patch or somewhere else?
[15:35] <slyon> that usually goes into debian/changelog but can also be part of the patch
[15:35] <ddstreet> i was getting to if there is a reference or specification for what you should add to patches
[15:36] <ddstreet> that lists the exact format of lines to add to patches...
[15:37] <ddstreet> i was getting at DEP3, it makes me sad that not many people know about it, as it makes my (and my team's) job much easier :)
[15:37] <ddstreet> so i like to ask about it
[15:37] <ddstreet> but really it's not critical to the process
[15:38] <ddstreet> i would suggest at least reviewing it and suggest using at least the Bug-Ubuntu and Origin fields
[15:38] <slyon> ah hum.. yeah. usually those lines/templates are auto-generated by quilt so I was not sure about the reference, sorry about that
[15:38] <ddstreet> yep, good enough :)
[15:39] <slyon> I will!
[15:39] <ddstreet> no more q from me
[15:40] <rbasak> slyon: can you tell me what a seed is?
[15:40] <rbasak> And where would you go for more information on them?
[15:41] <xnox> teward:  sure.
[15:41] <slyon> rbasak: a seed is a text file containing an "initial set of packages", which can be the starting point to build a new image for example, by pulling in all the seed's dependencies
[15:41] <sil2100> slyon: could you tell us if you worked on any merges already? And what does such work involve?
[15:41] <teward> xnox: nice, thanks for your response and extending your endorsement to cover core-dev as well for sylon.  sorry to ping you in many places :)
[15:42] <slyon> seeds can be found here: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/seeds/i386.hirsute/ and are maintained by the release team
[15:43] <slyon> sil2100: Yes I did some merges already. Starting point would be https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html (or universe.html) to check for a suiteable package/merge.
[15:43] <rbasak> OK thanks. And final question: when would you need a package transition, and what are the broad steps needed to complete one?
[15:43] <rbasak> Sorry, finish with sil2100 first
[15:44] <slyon> Then I would check the diffs manually and check if the current ubuntu delta is still needed or can be dropped (do a sync instead). Adopt the patches accordingly and open a tracking bug (if this is a longer standing issue, or sponsoring is needed, to note that I am working on that specific merge)
[15:45] <slyon> The merge can be worked on with git-ubuntu or manually, preparing a debdiff for sponsors to review.
[15:45] <sil2100> Awesome, thanks o/
[15:47] <sil2100> Guess rbasak still has one open question ^
[15:47] <slyon> rbasak: I did not work on transitions too much... AFAIU they are needed for "big packages" impacting lots of other packages, like toolchains. They should be timed to not be uploaded/tested at the same time as it could entangle lots of autopkgtests and make proposed migration pretty hard
[15:48] <rbasak> Thanks
[15:48] <rbasak> I'm ready to vote
[15:49] <sil2100> Ok, any other questions?
[15:49] <teward> none from me.
[15:50] <sil2100> #vote Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership
[15:50] <meetingology> Please vote on: Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership
[15:50] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[15:51] <ddstreet> +1 very good endorsements, good amount of knowledge of process details, code quality appears good
[15:51] <meetingology> +1 very good endorsements, good amount of knowledge of process details, code quality appears good received from ddstreet
[15:51] <teward> +1 good endorsements, good knowledge of process details, but I strongly encourage asking for assistance if you encounter something 'odd' or which you're not familiar with (which is good advice in general)
[15:51] <meetingology> +1 good endorsements, good knowledge of process details, but I strongly encourage asking for assistance if you encounter something 'odd' or which you're not familiar with (which is good advice in general) received from teward
[15:52] <teward> (which echoes sil and xnox's endorsement notes)
[15:52] <teward> also, more main package activity please :)
[15:52] <teward> (not a blocker)
[15:52] <rbasak> +1 strong endorsements, excellent track record of uploads and broad enough knowledge of Ubuntu development process.
[15:52] <meetingology> +1 strong endorsements, excellent track record of uploads and broad enough knowledge of Ubuntu development process. received from rbasak
[15:53] <sil2100> +1 (obviously as I have endorsed Lukas already, even though he is missing some experience, I am fully confident that he's capable of doing the right thing - and seeing his drive and passion regarding Ubuntu maintenance, he'll do just fine)
[15:53] <meetingology> +1 (obviously as I have endorsed Lukas already, even though he is missing some experience, I am fully confident that he's capable of doing the right thing - and seeing his drive and passion regarding Ubuntu maintenance, he'll do just fine) received from sil2100
[15:53] <rbasak> Caveat: I think you broadly understand seeds and package transitions, but I'm not sure your exactly on point in the details. Please confirm your understanding with your colleagues before you touch these areas unsupervised, and look out for accidentally starting a transition when you didn't intend it.
[15:53] <slyon> Yes. I have a nice group of core-devs in my team, who I can (and will) ask questions
[15:53] <rbasak> *you're
[15:53] <teward> rbasak: sounds like the caveat the previous DMB gave me when I got core-dev.  :)
[15:53] <slyon> rbasak: will do for sure!
[15:53] <teward> (that's something everyone should get as advice though, imo)
[15:53] <sil2100> Excellent!
[15:53] <teward> well with that, i think we have quorum here.
[15:53] <sil2100> #endvote
[15:53] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Lukas 'slyon' Märdian for Ubuntu Core Developer membership
[15:53] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:53] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:54] <sil2100> slyon: wow, congratulations!
[15:54] <ddstreet> congratulations!
[15:54] <rbalint> slyon, congratulations, welcome the the Core Dev Team, too! :-)
[15:54] <slyon> \o/ awesome, thanks folks!
[15:54] <teward> So: slyon: motu dismissed, PPU dismissed, coredev approved.  Welcome to the core dev team :)
[15:54] <sil2100> Keep up the good work and don't hesitate to ask questions, we're all here to help!
[15:54] <rbasak> Congratulations!
[15:54] <slyon> wow this is really great
[15:54] <teward> yep, we are.  never be afraid to ask where you're unsure
[15:54] <teward> (best advice I've ever gotten - from rbasak xD)
[15:54] <teward> xnox: rbalint: cpaelzer: thanks for your response to our pings, i know it is a minor interruption to your day, but it's appreciated :)
[15:55] <sil2100> #topic AOB
[15:55] <rbasak> Thanks :)
[15:55] <slyon> Yes. I will absolutely continue to learn about all the details
[15:55] <sil2100> Any other business?
[15:55] <sil2100> Let me deal with the permissions and announcement
[15:55] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to add slyon to core-dev
[15:55] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to add slyon to core-dev
[15:55] <sil2100> #action sil2100 to announce slyon's successful application
[15:55] <meetingology> ACTION: sil2100 to announce slyon's successful application
[15:56] <teward> #subtopic Meeting FYI
[15:56] <teward> Just an FYI: we have no DMB meetings until January thanks to the holidays.
[15:56] <teward> next DMB meeting will be January 11
[15:56] <sil2100> Oh, indeed!
[15:56] <teward> (this has been the case since the November meetings where we agreed to skip the holiday timeperiod's chaos.)
[15:56] <teward> (also, +o so meetingology lets me run special commands xD)
[15:56] <sil2100> Have a nice EOY everyone!
[15:57] <slyon> indeed, happy holidays everyone!
[15:57] <sil2100> Let's wrap it up then
[15:57] <teward> sil2100: same to you as well!
[15:57] <sil2100> #endmeeting
[15:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Dec 14 15:57:14 2020 UTC.
[15:57] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-12-14-15.00.moin.txt
[15:57] <ddstreet> thanks all, happy holidays o/
[15:57] <sil2100> Thanks o/
[15:57] <teward> thak you all! o/
[15:57] <slyon> o/