=== mIk3_09 is now known as mIk3_08 [23:06] o/ [23:06] o/ [23:06] o/ [23:06] Hi lifeless [23:06] hi linaporras [23:06] *linaporras [23:06] mispings are awkward. [23:07] i am around but thanks to the snow pulled my back and am waiting for the meds to kick in [23:07] for the pain [23:07] so forgive if ERR:quiet from me for a bit [23:07] HI! [23:07] jose: around? [23:07] Yeah, I'm still working too. [23:08] I don't know, you tell me ;) [23:08] :P [23:08] *tasers jose* [23:08] wxl: ? [23:08] nhaines: ? [23:08] yes i'm here [23:09] who hasn't chaired yet and would like to [23:09] I'm not in a position to do so today, and ERR: next meeting (30th) is my 14th anniversary, so shouldn't today. [23:10] er, shouldn't then. [23:10] we're probably skip the 30th meeting because festivities [23:10] yep DMB is doing the same [23:10] Fair. [23:10] jose: we have no meeting at the 30th [23:10] we are supposed to [23:10] anyways [23:10] who's chairing [23:11] not it. [23:11] * Eickmeyer nominates toddy [23:11] not it [23:11] unless you can wait 10min [23:11] toddy, wxl, or linaporras, who's doing it [23:11] not it [23:11] looks like it's toddy :) [23:11] Can somebody else chair? [23:12] I'm pretty beat from the day [23:12] I am not ready for that task [23:13] oh for pete's sake [23:13] jose can u repeat [23:13] ? [23:13] >.> [23:13] i'll do the dumb thing [23:13] give me 3min. then i will fastrun the meeting if you want. and complain :P [23:13] today been chaosday for me [23:13] oki teward [23:14] #startmeeting Community Council regular meeting [23:14] Meeting started Wed Dec 16 23:14:13 2020 UTC. The chair is wxl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [23:14] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Community Council regular meeting | Current topic: [23:14] or wxl can since they said they would [23:14] I'm ok with that. I'm not in any hurry. [23:14] #meetingtopic Old business === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Old business Meeting | Current topic: [23:14] oh jeez [23:14] i got to figure out how to work this thing :( [23:14] just topic :) [23:15] #meeting Community Council regular meeting [23:15] ugh [23:15] #meetingtopic Community Council regular meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Community Council regular meeting | Current topic: [23:15] #topic Old business === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Community Council regular meeting | Current topic: Old business [23:15] FINALLY [23:15] ok so what old business do we have to deal with? [23:15] TB stuff for one [23:16] thats "in the works" - on jose and Mark atm [23:16] #subtopic Technical Board elections [23:16] currently waiting on Mark to confirm the shortlist [23:16] gonna make an observation tho [23:16] not many people felt they were up for the task [23:17] i didn't look at the list. saw lots of recognizable names coming through. did we get enough folks? [23:17] I think we did. [23:17] we did get just enough [23:17] only after I put sil's name in [23:17] Yeah. Honestly, I feel pretty good about the list. [23:17] with their permission. I woild have tossed in my hat but jose told me to stay homr [23:17] :) [23:17] home* [23:17] I feel very strongly about the list too. Just need to get Mark's confirmation. [23:17] I agree, too many hats can be problematic. [23:17] sooooo teward: elaborate— do you see some sort of problem that there were so few nominations? [23:18] i'm not surprised by it [23:18] we received 4, and looked for some extra people, got that final one [23:18] typing from phone patience pls [23:19] one of the major concerns was "oh i am not sure i am qualified" - sil and others had that opinion privately. Other things is i think people have a misunderstanding of what the TB does or want to see it take a different direction (that was Laney's summarized opinion) [23:19] i suspect we don't have enough time to run the election to finish by end of year if we don't get the shortlist rather quick [23:20] i will put together the concerns and ML them to us all [23:20] sil didn't think they were qualified????? [23:20] they were on the fence. After talkling to sil they reassessed [23:20] they were more unsure than not [23:20] sil is one of the most qualified IMO as are the others on the list so far [23:21] (brb, need an ice pack) [23:21] considering it's a just a confirmation vote, voting would be open for a week, so I think we might be able to make it by EOY [23:21] well i guess that sort of cautious behavior is the sort of thing we'd want in a tb member rather than just rushing things through [23:21] yup [23:21] +1 [23:21] jose: are you planning on meeting with mark in the near future that you could bug him? [23:21] right now, we're dependent on Mark's response, and he did want to get it done before the holidays [23:21] I did reach out to him directly via IM :) [23:22] #AIM_IS_DEAD jose ;) [23:22] and I did message on Monday and again today [23:22] ok well i guess we'll just hope for the best [23:22] not America On Line's, but other more modern solution [23:22] wxl: if push comes to shove i'll extend existing TB through 2 weeks of Jan. until we get the meeting [23:23] s/meeting/election/ [23:23] I have a good feeling about this. [23:23] okie dokie [23:23] I do too. [23:23] #action teward to post to list about observations from Technical Board nominations [23:23] ACTION: teward to post to list about observations from Technical Board nominations [23:23] i suspect we're done with that [23:24] #topic Membership Board === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Community Council regular meeting | Current topic: Membership Board [23:24] we've got our new membership board installed (yay) [23:24] \o/ [23:24] fine [23:25] 👍 [23:25] i don't think there's much else to say about that but we can acknowledge our success :) [23:25] Yup. Nothing wrong with a little celebration. [23:25] :) [23:25] ok next [23:25] #topic Discourse === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Community Council regular meeting | Current topic: Discourse [23:25] Oof, discourse. :/ [23:25] yeah well we have good news [23:25] :o :o [23:26] Oh? [23:26] that being that there are now two new subtopics in the CC category [23:26] 🙀 [23:26] that being "Documentation" and "Meetings" [23:26] so now it should be easier to find things [23:26] looks good [23:26] Sweet. [23:26] so generally i think we have everything we were looking for there [23:27] there was one piece of documentation i thought might be better suited in our area [23:27] oh two actually [23:27] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/governance/332 [23:27] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/community-structure/331 [23:28] Indeed. [23:28] those are the only two things in the community subcategory of the documentation category [23:28] should i ask someone for permission before moving things? [23:28] I feel like, after we wind down with restaffing, we're going to be able to put stuff in there [23:28] I would say ask the owner [23:28] and if you don't get a response in a couple days, move it [23:28] that would be popey [23:28] and otherwise we can move it back [23:29] okie dokie [23:29] just as a "politeness" thing [23:29] wxl: Be aware that I do follow through on the "Meetings" report and so list in UWN. [23:29] #action wxl to ask popey if it's ok to move Community Structure & Governance posts from Documentation/Community category on Discourse to Community Council/Documentation [23:29] ACTION: wxl to ask popey if it's ok to move Community Structure & Governance posts from Documentation/Community category on Discourse to Community Council/Documentation [23:30] Bashing-om: ok. did i say something wrong? :) [23:30] ooook [23:30] next item [23:31] #topic Local Communities Committee === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | be nice | Community Council regular meeting | Current topic: Local Communities Committee [23:31] wxl: No - sorry - just a comment for the use of discourse. [23:31] Bashing-om: okie thx :) [23:31] so did everyone review and/or comment on the draft for the LoCo Committee? [23:31] okay, for this one, I still haven't gotten either an 'ack' from most of you, saying "I've reviewed and left my comments" [23:31] (i know i did!) [23:32] I also have did it [23:32] Wel... I did... ;) [23:32] i've read the comments and such, but not made any other than the one. every other comment was already made :P [23:32] Eickmeyer? [23:32] #voters wxl jose toddy linaporras teward Eickmeyer nhaines [23:32] I don't think I had. Link? [23:32] #voters wxl jose toddy linaporras teward Eickmeyer nhaines [23:32] Current voters: Eickmeyer jose linaporras nhaines teward toddy wxl [23:33] there you go [23:33] #chairs teward jose wxl [23:33] #chair teward jose wxl [23:33] Current chairs: jose teward wxl [23:33] so we don't need to op ;) [23:33] votes required 4? [23:33] Let me get you a link. [23:33] Yes but hold on [23:33] there was a point to discuss [23:33] I think we have an open question in the draft? [23:34] There was something [23:34] Eickmeyer: sent you a link via DDM [23:34] not posting it here because it's still a draft and still open [23:34] yes, there is something, but I want to make sure to give Eickmeyer time to skim it [23:34] let's give him 3 minutes (180 secs)? [23:34] (what's ddm?) [23:34] agree with jose [23:35] DM* [23:35] ahh :) [23:35] direct, direct message :) [23:35] could you send to me again so i can remind myself [23:35] ? [23:35] of course. [23:35] Yeah, after a cursory glance, LGTM. Only question is if the question is resolved. [23:36] wxl: need some time to skim it? [23:36] #votesrequired 4 [23:36] votes now need 4 to be passed [23:37] giving wxl a couple more minutes before I raise my point [23:37] and then after I explain and we discuss we can put it to a vote [23:37] should we answer the question that remains? [23:38] I think we should. [23:38] okay, then. let me explain the question and my point of view [23:38] Not be a Community Council member.this is the topic for dicussion [23:38] Ok. Yeah, being a CC member on this committee might have a perception of a heavy hand. [23:39] Right now, there are mixed opinions on whether current Community Council members can be part of the LCRC. In my opinion, we are creating this entity to perform independent research. [23:39] 1.- As Eickmeyer mentioned, it can create the perception of a heavy hand [23:39] 2.- We are delegating because we have other stuff to take care of [23:39] not that we don't care about this, but we do, which is why we should get other people to help us with this [23:39] they will have much better bandwidth than us, with all our duties [23:40] and so, perform a much more deep investigation [23:40] what do y'all think? [23:40] I agree, jose. [23:40] If someone thinks they want to take part, they can do so for all I care. regardless of whether they are a cc member or not. [23:40] toddy: what do you think of the points I raised above? [23:40] do you agree? no? why? [23:41] I don't think that it is a heavy hand of this person if he in the commitee [23:41] I don 't see in that way, why our participation could be seen as heavy hand... is just cooperaton. [23:41] toddy: The problem is that if other people (non-CC members) know there's a CC member on the committee, that might make a perception of being watched, or that the CC member is the actual leader of the committee and is steering it. [23:41] and I agree with toddy [23:41] we are all grown up enough [23:41] We are, but other people on the committee might not be able to separate that psychologically. [23:42] it's not to say we can't be involved [23:42] of course [23:42] we can still be involved [23:42] but we delegate the heavy work [23:42] and point 2. I think if somebody thing it whould be good to help and have the time. it is okay for me [23:42] if we take on absolutely everything ourselves, we would have a never ending list of things [23:43] ^ that is something i constantly worry about. i already knowingly allow myself to wear too many hats as it is [23:43] of course, but we are not saying that we are going to force everyone of us to participate [23:43] as toddy says if someone has the time, and wants to get involved, just do it [23:43] I don't want to be in that committee but if somebody else would I feel okay with that. [23:43] anyways, those were my arguments, I think that unless anyone else has anything else (different than what's already been presented), we can put this to a vote? anything else? [23:44] no [23:44] if I don't hear back in 60s I'll post the vote [23:44] let's look at it a different way: there may be some other person who has a particularly unique perspective that if one of us took their spot that they couldn't participate [23:44] yeah let's vote [23:44] #vote Can current Community Council members be part of the LCRC? [23:44] Please vote on: Can current Community Council members be part of the LCRC? [23:44] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [23:44] +1 [23:44] +1 received from linaporras [23:44] -1 [23:44] -1 received from jose [23:45] +1 [23:45] +1 received from toddy [23:45] -1 [23:45] -1 received from Eickmeyer [23:45] -1 [23:45] -1 received from wxl [23:45] looks like teward and nhaines are the deciing votes [23:46] looks like i got busy with my mom and dad calling [23:46] -1 CC members should not sit on the LCRC. [23:46] -1 CC members should not sit on the LCRC. received from teward [23:46] nhaines? [23:46] Regardless of nhaines's vote, motion cannot pass. [23:46] than we have a result. [23:46] yep [23:46] #endvote [23:46] Voting ended on: Can current Community Council members be part of the LCRC? [23:46] Votes for:2 Votes against:4 Abstentions:0 [23:46] Motion denied [23:47] okie dokie so with that out of the way, we can make the draft official [23:47] yeah! [23:47] Yup. [23:47] \o/ [23:47] there are still a couple things to iron out [23:47] especially the number of members [23:47] and do u think we should start recruiting for the LCRC now, or at begining of january? [23:48] asap [23:48] ^ [23:48] If there is someone you know would be interested, line them up [23:48] i think ideally it should at least be 6 or more [23:48] I think from my LoCo could be one person [23:48] Lirrums [23:49] how about this: it would be nice to have at least one member from every region. THAT is our requirement [23:49] if there are more than that, it's ok [23:49] Nominations will be formal and later on [23:49] not to exceed 12 [23:49] wel 12 is a big number... [23:49] So we good with min 6, max 12? [23:49] I think 9 is a good big number... [23:50] jose: thats fine for me [23:50] 6-9 then [23:50] min 6, max 9? [23:50] min 5... maz 9 [23:50] but with the requirement that there is at least one member from each region [23:50] *max [23:50] regions being: [23:50] 1. n. america [23:50] 2. s. america [23:50] 3. europe [23:50] 4. africa [23:51] 5. asia [23:51] 6. oceania [23:51] that's why i said minimum 6 [23:51] 2. south an central america maybe? a [23:51] and bye northe will be Canada, Us, and Mexico or ? [23:51] you know i was totally going to say that :) [23:51] well ok, 6 is ok [23:51] wow, I am writing horrible [23:51] and by north america will be Canada, Us, and Mexico or ? [23:52] yes 6 is a good for min [23:52] all of the above linaporras [23:52] I would take the Wikipedia definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America [23:53] right [23:53] can we say "It is essential for the committee to be composed of people from all regions" and define those 6 regions? [23:53] All good with min 6, max 9, essential all regions? [23:54] ok ok North America includes central america... [23:54] right [23:54] ok I agree with the Wikipedia definition, I think that we should cite the wikipedia part... for clarification... [23:55] we can have that internally ourselves [23:55] I agree [23:55] Yep. [23:55] ok [23:55] great [23:55] anything else ? [23:55] Nop from my part1 [23:56] I'm good. [23:56] I think that we should make this official and start the conformation, but I suggest to start that in the 2nd week of January... take into account, that in some countries this is holiday season [23:56] target project completion date? [23:56] end of January [23:57] opinions? [23:57] anyone else? [23:57] i think it makes sense [23:57] ok, we can do it like this [23:57] chinese new year thankfully begins in february this year [23:58] so, accounting for a 2-week nomination period, 1-week voting period, finish it on Jan 31st at most, and then instate it on Feb 1st? [23:58] yep [23:58] i presume we are announcing this as we would board nominations? [23:58] and expiring Jul 31st? [23:58] yeah [23:58] actually [23:58] the proposal draft should go into our documentation [23:58] and then we should make a formal call for nominations linking to that [23:58] coool.. well se what happens with the job... if they found that maybe need more time we can reealuate, but so far is ok [23:58] that way it's not lost in the call for nominations post [23:59] yes, these are all estimated timelines [23:59] :) [23:59] toddy: are you still good to own this action item? [23:59] I own that? [23:59] yes that's right (on expiration) [23:59] yeah, you owned the LoCo Council renewal