[03:51] <GalzuFromQ> Anyone know how to roll back the installed version of PHP?
[06:48] <lordievader> Good morning
[15:43] <icey> jamespage: the two dependencies on sqlalchemy-utils are test / build depends || optional things
[15:44] <icey> specifically, psycopg2 is a test requirement, and infinity is an optional thing if a user wants that feature
[15:45] <jamespage> OK but are they represented in the Recommends or Depends of the binary packages produced as well?
[15:45] <jamespage> Suggests avoids MIR, Recommends enforces it
[15:52] <icey> jamespage: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/NWQrKyWdDQ/
[15:52] <icey> so the psycopq2 and infinity are coming in implicitly, we should make them explicitly a Suggests
[15:53] <icey> jamespage: annoyingly, the psycopg2 is coming in via a 'tests' section of extra_requires in the package's setup.py
[19:27] <rangergord> Hiya. For an embedded system, if I have x64 hardware (Intel Atom), what's the point of running Ubuntu Core instead of Ubuntu Server?
[19:27] <rangergord> there's no #ubuntu-core to ask this, thought I'd ask here since server is the closest analog
[19:36] <sarnold> rangergord: ubuntu core is more intended for appliances: think set top box, networking gear, printer, fridge, toaster, etc.
[19:53] <kinghat> if i wanted zfs or btrfs on root install, would it be better to just install desktop and remove the DE after?
[19:54] <sdeziel> kinghat: you can do btrfs as rootfs with the server installer
[19:54] <kinghat> 20.04?
[19:55] <sdeziel> yes, it's what I run on all my hosts
[19:55] <kinghat> is there zfs in 20.10?
[19:57] <rangergord> sarnold, so if I have a tiny embedded board, but it's an Atom with 2GB of RAM, I'm better off with Server, right?
[19:59] <sarnold> rangergord: it really depends more upon what you want to do with the system and how you intend to manage it
[20:01] <rangergord> I want it run my app 24/7, crash as little as possible. Not managed at all. However I do collect coredumps on crash and occasionally the user sends them to me.
[20:03] <rangergord> run 24/7 for 247 years
[20:03] <rangergord> or hopefully, 2.47 years
[20:04] <sarnold> heh, that's an interesting position to be in .. completely unmanaged is unusual :) normally folks want to get updates, push updates, etc sometime..
[20:05] <rangergord> nope, it's offline
[20:05] <rangergord> unless the user hooks up a laptop to it directly
[20:05] <rangergord> then it's still offline, but they can SSH to it
[20:05] <sarnold> I could see either one for this; server will be a lot more familiar, core might be easier to turn into an application host that just does the one thing.
[20:06] <rangergord> yeah what's making me tilt towards Server, is that Core seems like some random product that just happens to have the same name. Like Angular 1 and Angular 2.
[20:06] <rangergord> so all my familiarity with Ubuntu might be lost if I go with server
[20:06] <rangergord> *go with Core
[20:07] <rangergord> I dont know anyone who uses Core. They dont even have an IRC channel.
[20:09] <sarnold> heh, you *do* know people that use core, they just don't advertise it as part of their product :)
[20:09] <rangergord> I meant, people on IRC
[20:09] <rangergord> developers
[20:09] <rangergord> sysadmins, etc
[20:09] <rangergord> different crowds maybe :)
[20:10] <sarnold> yes :)
[20:10] <rangergord> have you met one?
[20:10] <rangergord> I guess the question is answered. I'll play it safe with Server. :)
[20:11] <sarnold> heh, excellent question; I probably haven't, I've only done a handful of customer engagements..
[20:12] <rangergord> allright, no worries.thanks
[20:45] <kinghat> do you guys know about the change that happened in the /dev/disk/by-id? like the format or something changed in 20.04 from 18.04.
[20:47] <TJ-> kinghat: that'd be a udev rule if so
[20:47] <sarnold> kinghat: try starting with grep disk/by-id /lib/udev/rules.d/*
[20:48] <kinghat> it can be changed back to the 18.04 default?
[21:44] <kinghat> what is grep /dev/disk/by-id /lib/udev/rules.d/* doing?
[21:44] <sarnold> kinghat: it's showing you which udev files may be involved in whatever it is you're trying to research
[21:45] <kinghat> hmm
[21:45] <kinghat> do you guys see zfs getting integration like btrfs has on server?
[21:46] <sarnold> I think it's likely, yes, but I don't know a timeframe
[22:02] <kinghat> 👌
[22:02] <kinghat> have you setup zfs at root for server before?
[22:04] <sarnold> well... my laptop, with zfs root, was installed before the installer got zfs support
[22:04] <sarnold> I followed an earlier version https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/Getting%20Started/Ubuntu/Ubuntu%2020.04%20Root%20on%20ZFS.html
[22:04] <sarnold> it's significantly more work
[22:07] <kinghat> would you just use the desktop installer and remove the DE for a server experience?
[22:08] <sarnold> you'd also need to clean up networkmanager; I'm not sure what else you'd want to fiddle with
[22:12] <kinghat> found this: https://github.com/saveriomiroddi/zfs-installer
[22:54] <kinghat> you have to use the desktop installer for that guide above even if you want server?
[22:59] <sarnold> kinghat: you get a certain amount through with the live desktop installer, I think for the zfs things, and then you will use debootstrap to do the actual install to disk
[22:59] <kinghat> that guide seems pretty intense 😬
[23:01] <sarnold> it's been developed over many years, a lot of things have been covered :)