[03:36] <lubot> [telegram] <Leokolb> @wxl @guiverc - yes- willing to help but have never encountered this one (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> @leokolb do you think you and guiverc could put your heads together and see if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares/+bug/1864787 is still relevant any longer?)
[06:44] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> i wonder if there's "too many partitions" in the side by sdie (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> @leokolb do you think you and guiverc could put your heads together and see if https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/calamares/+bug/1864787 is still relevant any longer?)
[06:45] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> i.e. a DOS partition table and too many partitions that're primary
[06:45] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> a bunch of those comments are regarding 'side by side' installs so
[06:45] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> (i.e. dualboot)
[06:46] <guiverc> wxl, the only way to test 1864787 is for me to re-test on the one box I experienced it with..   (it's not a test box, so will take longer to use it)..   @teward001  my box is MBR, but within limits as for permissions (some partitions are within extended partition..)
[06:50] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> guiverc: well i'm only making the note in the off chance that it tries to resize the extended and fails
[06:50] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> which will fail because you have to resize the logical partitions in the extended
[06:51] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> we have no idea the chaos Cala could be doing xD
[06:54] <guiverc> the issue can be worked around; I did it, the two other affects-me too appear to as well... i could try and re-create it on differnt box (I'm not installing windows, but am willing to create NTFS partition to represent that).. I've tried that before but got blocked by another bug that I don't think is an issue anymore
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[07:10] <lubot> [telegram] <Leokolb> MBR disk most 4 Primary partitions or 3 Primary plus one extened - (I think) (re @teward001: i wonder if there's "too many partitions" in the side by sdie)
[07:12] <lubot> [telegram] <Leokolb> Have done numerous dual and triple boots - never seen that bug
[07:20] <RyuKurisu[m]> Yes, extended partitions are counted as a primary partition, but logical aren't because the 'sit' on top of the extended.
[07:42] <wxl> the philosophy cala has about manual partition is that you do so at your own risk
[07:43] <wxl> i.e. it won't keep you from trying to do something impossible
[07:43] <wxl> which i guess, to some degree, is fair 
[07:44] <wxl> so any time you do it, you have to know the limitations of the filesystems and partition table types you're dealing with
[07:45] <tsimonq2> If something is technically impossible, why isn't there some sanity check preventing it?
[07:45] <tsimonq2> Somewhere. Lurking.
[07:45] <wxl> probably because they are too many impossible things to have to deal with
[07:45] <lubot> [telegram] <Leokolb> triple boot problems are not very common for "normal" users -
[07:45] <wxl> i mean, you can tell the partition backend to do something impossible
[07:45] <tsimonq2> I find it hard to believe that not even the underlying filesystem interfaces don't ever yeet an error at the user.
[07:46] <wxl> in much the same way, the shell doesn't restrict you from calling a command that doesn't exist
[07:46] <wxl> or wiping the operating system that you're using to perform the deletion X''''D
[07:46] <tsimonq2> It still tells you it doesn't exist though.
[07:46] <tsimonq2> XD
[07:46] <wxl> with impunity i might add! (-f)
[07:49] <tsimonq2> * I find it hard to believe that not even the underlying filesystem interfaces doesn't ever yeet an error at the user.
[07:49] <wxl> i'm sure they do
[07:49] <wxl> but the error may not be very instructive
[07:49] <wxl> "can't do that"
[07:50] <wxl> let's say you run a command and get a command not found error. is that because the binary doesn't exist? or a PATH issue? the shell doesn't tell you
[07:55] <lubot> [telegram] <Leokolb> Must admit good to not have "Please contact your system admin.."
[07:55] <tsimonq2> A shell is much more versatile though. Also, it has much more of a learning curve. That argument does have a fallacy though, if you're manually partitioning drives, you probably know what you're doing. Probably.
[07:56] <tsimonq2> It's 2 AM, I love you wxl but I know we can discuss this and many other things for hours.
[07:56] <wxl> yeah and that is indeed the cala philosophy
[07:57] <wxl> indeed
[07:57] <wxl> especially if coffee/maté is involved XD
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[14:41] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> 4 primaries (and an 'extended partition' is a primary partition but lets you have a ton of extra logical partitions inside it)
[14:41] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> ^ my last message (re @Leokolb: MBR disk most 4 Primary partitions or 3 Primary plus one extened - (I think))
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[16:49] <wxl> wow development for lxde has picked up it seems on github. they're even using issues there. but still fixing sourceforge bugs. almost makes me wish we hadn't dropped it. almost. not really. https://github.com/lxde/libfm/commits/master
[16:50] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> lol
[16:50] <wxl> a long while ago i had planned on writing an article comparing and contrasting lxde and lxqt
[16:50] <wxl> i still might as i think some empirical data would be good to have
[16:51] <wxl> still, i just found this really nice history published upstream that includes some really relevant links https://github.com/lxqt/lxqt/wiki/History
[16:51] <wxl> just an fyi to ya'll, especially if you have questions from folks about the difference
[16:51] <wxl> i think i might start working on a faq
[16:52] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> I feel like I saw someone ask the question recently but I don't remember where.
[16:53] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> I don't know that I would call what is happening in lxde "sustained".
[16:53] <wxl> this is certainly a dramatic change from what i've seen in the recent past
[16:54] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> True, I still think we are on a better trajectory.
[17:00] <lubot> [telegram] <HMollerCl> I show this also https://blog.lxde.org/2016/10/04/benchmark-memory-usage-lxqt-desktop-environment-vs-xfce/
[17:00] <wxl> yeah i remember that one
[17:10] <wxl> oh gee i hadn't seen this but gtk4 finally made it out the door. and lxde is still not gtk3 compatible. oh my. https://blog.gtk.org/2020/12/16/gtk-4-0/
[17:15] <tsimonq2> Alright, time to remove GTK 2
[17:15]  * tsimonq2 starts conspiring
[17:15] <wxl> i think they still support it
[17:15] <lubot> [telegram] <teward001> *starts conspiring against @tsimonq2*
[17:15] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> GTK2 has been deprecated
[17:16] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> I'm pretty sure that was announced somewhere.
[17:19] <wxl> it's not listed https://www.gtk.org/docs/installations/linux/
[17:21] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> I read it here, which I know isn't official but... https://9to5linux.com/gtk-4-0-officially-released-after-more-than-4-years-of-development
[17:21] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> "the older GTK+ 2.x series has now reached end of life"
[17:22] <wxl> if that's true, then this needs correcting https://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=38309&hilit=gtk+4&start=10
[17:23] <wxl> oh that's lifted right from the original announcement
[17:23] <wxl> they claim they will do one final release in the upcoming days
[17:24] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> Ah, hours are soon.
[17:24] <wxl> horray!!
[17:24] <wxl> XD
[17:24] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> \o/
[17:24] <lubot> [telegram] <HMollerCl> maybe lxde was waiting for gtk4...
[17:24] <wxl> XD
[17:25] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> um, yeah XD
[17:27] <tsimonq2> If they can't port to GTK 3, they absolutely can't port to GTK 4 ;)
[17:27] <wxl> well who knows
[17:27] <tsimonq2> Also, what's the latest y'all?
[17:28] <wxl> um
[17:28] <tsimonq2> I'm in one of those spots where I remember how to do everything but don't know where to jump in first 
[17:28] <wxl> i guess the big deal is we need to get our merges resolved
[17:28] <wxl> we've got a whole new lxqt
[17:28] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> ^
[17:28] <tsimonq2> Oh yeah? Do we have something tracking the status yet?
[17:28] <wxl> so if you want to help with that super
[17:28] <tsimonq2> Niceee 
[17:28] <wxl> yep one sec
[17:29] <wxl> https://phab.lubuntu.me/T185
[17:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Unbreak Now!, Open] deal with merges: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T185
[17:29] <wxl> it doesn't list all of the packages but trust me, all of them are stuck XD
[17:30] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> Debian has seen some recent activity which is good.
[17:31] <wxl> if you could bang those out, @tsimonq2 that would be huge
[17:31] <tsimonq2> Easy.
[17:31] <tsimonq2> I'll be home in an hour or two
[17:31] <wxl> nice
[17:31] <wxl> ping if you need anything
[17:32] <tsimonq2> Will do 
[17:34] <wxl> i'm slowly changing wiki permissions to documentation team so if there's anyone that wants that, let me know
[17:34] <wxl> it may be true that admins don't need it
[17:34] <wxl> to that end can you try to edit https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/faq/ @kc2bez ?
[17:34] <tsimonq2> Slowly? What about the API?
[17:35] <wxl> oh yeah i forgot about that, thanks
[17:35] <tsimonq2> Of course.
[17:35] <tsimonq2> Be a programmer, be lazy XD
[17:36] <wxl> i did just add @leokolb and guiverc to doc team so there's that
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[18:11] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> wxl : https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/65f91929/file_1586.jpg
[18:13] <wxl> ok then
[18:13] <wxl> one sec
[18:13] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> sure
[18:17] <wxl> try again
[18:18] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> I am good now. Thanks.
[18:18] <wxl> yep
[18:19] <wxl> just fyi you have to explicitly add admins 
[18:19] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> Ok, thanks for the info.
[18:19] <wxl> so for any wiki page, there should be a custom policy built around doc team and admins
[18:20] <lubot> [telegram] <kc2bez> gotcha
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[23:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_calamares just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_calamares/302/
[23:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_calamares FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_calamares/622/
[23:52] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_calamares just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_calamares/623/
[23:53] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_calamares just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_calamares/302/