 @By brian All rights reserved [Does pixel 3a work with ubports installer], Yes it should
[01:07] <ubptgbot> Nope_5 was added by: Nope_5
[02:20] <ubptgbot> BUNBOY87 was added by: BUNBOY87
 Where's the best place to go for steps on backing up my current Android system and then installing UT?  The install link on UT Wiki gives an error.
 Hi @LoneRanger4, could you show me where the broken link is?
 It's on the Ubuntu websites, so nevermind.  When I enable my script blocker for the page it forwards to ubports.com. I'll take a look around there.
[03:02] <KNERD> I just flashed this on an SD card for PinePhone.  Build #96 (Jan 7, 2021 5:55:00 AM)   There is noticable screen flicker. Any idea what's up with that?
[03:21] <ubptgbot> <Melwin Rodriguez> Ok so where can I get a device with Ubuntu Touch installed already?
[03:23] <ubptgbot> <Matt McClellan> e Bay?
[04:00] <ubptgbot> Ryan Maldonado was added by: Ryan Maldonado
[06:30] <ubptgbot> NAVEENrockzzz was added by: NAVEENrockzzz
[08:19] <ubptgbot> Star was added by: Star
 Hi I’m a newbie and this question has probably been asked lots of times but can I get this on my iOS phone if installed via a Mac?
 @Star [Hi I’m a newbie and this question has probably been asked lots of times but can …], Nope, the iphone is not supported, only android or Linux phones
 Ok thanks so a Samsung galaxy?
 [Edit] Ok thanks so a Samsung galaxy would?
 @Star [Ok thanks so a Samsung galaxy would?], https://devices.ubuntu-touch.com
 Thanks
 @Star [Ok thanks so a Samsung galaxy would?], [Edit] https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io
 It's .io not .com sorry
 @UniversalSuperBox [It's a discussion that will no doubt continue for months.], I think it's a discussion that has gone on for a very long time, and will last much longer than a few months unfortunately.
 Hi everyone, I have a noob question. I noticed UT is using Halium to interact with hardware components. Can UT work without Halium as well? What if someone wants to make their own hardware components ( a new phone only for UT) what's the process in that case?
 @p0ok3r [Hi everyone, I have a noob question. I noticed UT is using Halium to interact wi …], https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/pinephone/
 pinephone is a phone based on a SBC which doesn't ship with android, so the ubports port does not require halium
 as far as I know it meant that a lot of extra work is being put into it to make it work properly as instead of halium providing everything they have to manually make everything work, but I'm not an expert here :D
[09:11] <ubptgbot> Panagiotis Skoulikaritis was added by: Panagiotis Skoulikaritis
 @joeth [as far as I know it meant that a lot of extra work is being put into it to make …], Thanks, I noticed pinephone before. So the question is, having a compatible hardware is supposed to make it faster since android is not in between. Am I right?
 @p0ok3r [Thanks, I noticed pinephone before. So the question is, having a compatible hard …], I don't think that is necessarily the case, but it might just be because the pinephone is a low-end device so it is slow anyway
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/A2lgTWR0.png
 (Photo, 613x741) https://irc.ubports.com/XuqU3GC5.png it uses an ultra-stripped-down android
 Hmm yeah makes sense. I like to learn the process of making something like pinephone. Is there any good resources I can use?
 @p0ok3r [Hi everyone, I have a noob question. I noticed UT is using Halium to interact wi …], Early phones such as Nexus 4 didn't use Halium but Canonical had privileged tech data to achieve that
 @p0ok3r [Thanks, I noticed pinephone before. So the question is, having a compatible hard …], In practical terms now, probably not. But longer term that is a logical assumption, as optimisation improves
 @Stereofont [In practical terms now, probably not. But longer term that is a logical assumpti …], Let's say you want to make your own phone brand. Is Halium relevant to you in this case?
 @p0ok3r [Let's say you want to make your own phone brand. Is Halium relevant to you in th …], If you have $100 million, no 😜
 Volla uses proprietary information under licence
 But also Halium I think…
 Fx Pro1 X is another short production run hybrid
 Androidy
 @Stereofont [If you have $100 million, no 😜], Why is it more expensive? Android supported hardware components are cheaper to manufacture because the board design and components are available?
 FCC/CE certification
 @p0ok3r [Why is it more expensive? Android supported hardware components are cheaper to m …], What I mean is, you either pay for access to official information or you hack an alternative solution
 Halium is a workaround for the information starved
 @Stereofont [What I mean is, you either pay for access to official information or you hack an …], The information about how to communicate with the hardware components?
 I didn't know it's starved
 @RealDanct12 [FCC/CE certification], So if you use android components you bypass the certificates? But are you allowed to use them to build your own commercially available phone?
 @p0ok3r [I didn't know it's starved], Corporates hold those secrets. Our community has to figure out how to get a similar result, by guesswork
 @p0ok3r [So if you use android components you bypass the certificates? But are you allowe …], OnePlusOne is certificated and re-used. Pinephone had to pay
 That's crazy, which corporates are we talking about exactly?
 @p0ok3r [That's crazy, which corporates are we talking about exactly?], Android belongs to Google. How their drivers work is their secret
 But it's open source!?
 Of course, secrets can be bought, as long as you don't resell them 😜
 @p0ok3r [But it's open source!?], The drivers are not open source. UT would be so much easier if they were
 So how does Lineage OS do it?
 They just install proprietary drivers?
 @p0ok3r [So how does Lineage OS do it?], Lineage is Android lite. Strip out some of the nasty bits. But the core is intact and functions normally
 @p0ok3r [They just install proprietary drivers?], Exactly
 Now I understand, so when you say they can be bought, who should you pay exactly? Google own the right to the hardwares or you can contact the manufacturers who produce the separate components?
 @p0ok3r [Now I understand, so when you say they can be bought, who should you pay exactly …], Manufacturers get the hardware information they need from Google but the condition is they can't tell you. So to do the same you have to be a manufacturer. Though not a giant manufacturer…
 Fairphone is not huge
 Or you can design your own board?
 And contact manufacturers to build it for you?
 @p0ok3r [And contact manufacturers to build it for you?], Well workshops in Shenzen do all the work for all the brands …
 They will make a run of 5,000 phones to a design
 @Stereofont [Well workshops in Shenzen do all the work for all the brands …], So what kind of spec/technical docs do you need to have to contact them to build a prototype for you?
 I think we have gone as far as we can with this here without going off topic. Best to ask that question in Overflow
 https://t.me/UBportsOF
 This
 @p0ok3r [So what kind of spec/technical docs do you need to have to contact them to build …], There is a Pine64 group. They may be kind enough to give you some process insights there
 Alright, thank you so much for the help. I learned a lot.
 @p0ok3r [Alright, thank you so much for the help. I learned a lot.], Very welcome
[10:16] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> So I'm going to complain here for a moment in the hopes someone reading is able to make linux phones smarter then Android. But its annoying as hell when one connects to a mesh network with no internet connection the mobile phone doesn't offer to keep 4g on for internet while keeping you connected to the wifi network. This is useful for wh
[10:16] <ubptgbot> en your working with adhoc mesh networks for communications.
[10:17] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Heck on this topic its dumb we can't connect to two wifi networks  simultaneously eg mesh network and a actual metered wifi network.
[10:17] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> If these are things linux mobile could fix , please shut up and take my money
 do desktops support that?
[10:56] <ubptgbot> Ujukih was added by: Ujukih
 Fwd from mariogrip: also here is a bedtime book you can read https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/2018-edition/ch00-00-introduction.html
 Re Serval Mesh
 @Krish g [Heck on this topic its dumb we can't connect to two wifi networks  simultaneousl …], strange
[11:18] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Javacookies [do desktops support that?], I know my desktop mint has the capacity to conect to two networks at once  (with a usb wifi  card)
[11:19] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> So linux os wise it seems possible
 You can use Bluetooth simultaneously of course
 There is an IPv6 project floating around somewhere as well
 @p0ok3r [Now I understand, so when you say they can be bought, who should you pay exactly …], the manufacturers, the hardware manufacturers drivers are not open source, the pinned message has a link how an android device is build fwiw. … it comes down to manufacturers build for android and write proprietary drivers but they don't upstrea
[11:37] <ubptgbot> m these drivers into the linux kernel. volla and fx pro both work with such manufacturers to build their device and utilize halium to make use of their drivers, pine64 choose components that do have mainline line support and such don't require halium
 @Krish g [Heck on this topic its dumb we can't connect to two wifi networks  simultaneousl …], um not being able to connect to two wifi networks simultaneously is something specific to well wifi, or well at the very least the wifi hardware of the device in question, there's nothing any os can do about that
 @Krish g [Heck on this topic its dumb we can't connect to two wifi networks  simultaneousl …], [Edit] um not being able to connect to two wifi networks simultaneously is something specific to, well, wifi, or well at the very least the wifi hardware of the device in question, there's nothing any os can do about that
[11:42] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Fuseteam [um not being able to connect to two wifi networks simultaneously is something sp …], Linux mint seems to have a solution for this and allows for multiple connections (using multiple wifi cards)
 well does your device have multiple wifi cards?
[11:43] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> I would hope i could with the use of a usb org for the pinephone  , in the case of the linux laptop this is achieved with a usb wifi dongle and on board wifi
[11:43] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Otg*
 fwiw ubuntu touch uses networkmanager, which is the same network manager that ubuntu and possibly mint is using
[11:44] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> So in theory the support should be there ,just need to expose the settings to the user?
 @Fuseteam [fwiw ubuntu touch uses networkmanager, which is the same network manager that ub …], Would a OTG wifi dongle work with UT? I never tried
 @Krish g [I would hope i could with the use of a usb org for the pinephone  , in the case …], well then you first need a wifi otg that works with the kernel of your device
 @Stereofont [Would a OTG wifi dongle work with UT? I never tried], i'm guessing that depends on driver support
 Yes. Wifi drivers in Linux are a nightmare
 we have to remember that the kernel on android devices is rather volatile, change too much and you risk breaking some functionality
 Networking two UT devices might be interesting 🤔
[11:47] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Stereofont [Networking two UT devices might be interesting 🤔], My thought  is device functionality  such as  … 1: Canon camera hosts its own network for photos  … 2: local area network
[11:48] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Having access to both without switching would be sick
 You can run a local Nextcloud instance for that
 even on the pinephone we have a similar situation, dalton has spend weeks if not months to upgrade the kernel; process where he has to fix many functionalities that were working before
 phone running dry bbl
[11:50] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> How much of the mainline linux is used for the pinephone? I thought something like a rt5370 driver was pre included in most Linux distros
 Very crudely, you can run Axolotl on UT and Signal on desktop, for a synch mechanism
 Afternoon all, I'm running in to a problem with a checksum mismatch for the manual download for a Redmi Note 7 using the UBports installer. Should I continue to install anyway and is this a known bug?
 (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/UM6m9ihw.png
 Ignore the above, I believe I have fixed the error =)
 Take to Welcome room if issues continue
 Thanks.
 @p0ok3r [Let's say you want to make your own phone brand. Is Halium relevant to you in th …], Its easy: If you manage to get all hardware drivers into a mainline kernel, we do not need Halium ;)
 Or you supply them as source code as an auxiliary package
 As soon as we can build all that stuff we can also ship Ubuntu Touch without Halium, like on Pinephone
 @Krish g [How much of the mainline linux is used for the pinephone? I thought something li …], as much as possible but drivers in linux are in the kernel, it might be worth trying it out on the pinephone, but it depends on your kernel if it works
 @Krish g [How much of the mainline linux is used for the pinephone? I thought something li …], [Edit] as much as possible but drivers in linux are in the kernel, it might be worth trying it out on the pinephone, but it depends on your kernel if it detects the dongle
[12:23] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Fuseteam [as much as possible but drivers in linux are in the kernel, it might be worth tr …], The command lspci seems to show multiple devices am I doing this wrong or is that detection?
 sounds like detection to me, but i'm not knowledge enough to tell you for sure
 maybe compare outputs between your laptop and your phone?
[12:28] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> I'll try that now
[12:29] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/2lGMnl0Y.png
[12:29] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Ok it looks like I'm wrong it was not detected
[12:30] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> 2 items found without dongle
 well that answers that :x
[12:30] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Well that's sad 😔
 well not much to do, we don't have kernel devs to work on the kernel, unless ofcourse someone in the community is interested and able to work on it
[12:34] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> God i wish I had the skills to help at that level unfortunately I fall into the build apps for the platform level
 you are not alone, many of us wish they had the skills to some awesome stuff xD
 the best we can do, is using our existing skills to do some awesome stuff
 @Fuseteam [well that answers that :x], Humm are you looking for an USB device with lspci?
 @Flohack [Humm are you looking for an USB device with lspci?], Krish is trying to use a usb dongle on his UT device
 @Fuseteam [Krish is trying to use a usb dongle on his UT device], Well lsusb would be the right one no? lspci lists PCI devices ^^
 @Flohack [Well lsusb would be the right one no? lspci lists PCI devices ^^], Krish florian is giving you some hope :p
 @Flohack [Well lsusb would be the right one no? lspci lists PCI devices ^^], [Edit] Krish, florian is giving you some hope :p
[12:51] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> I'll try this now
[12:52] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/EGuOXQYk.png
[12:53] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Interesting result but don't understand what im looking at first command was without otg dongle
[12:53] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Second was with it connected
[12:53] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> 3 items shown
 Well USB bus is probably switched off when nothing is connected
 Save power maybe ^^
 Well try to resolve vendor and device IDs via internet queries, to get an idea which device is which
[12:53] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Ok will do
[12:55] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> I think I see it ill link here
[12:55] <ubptgbot> Dufft was added by: Dufft
[12:55] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> https://devicehunt.com/view/type/usb/vendor/0BDA/device/8176
[12:55] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> First item in the list seems to be the rtl wifi card
 Oh look ^^
 What does dmesg tell you now
[12:57] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/z0eelvHU.png
[12:59] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Is that useful?
[13:00] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Flohack [What does dmesg tell you now], I see a number of sme and sdd events
[13:03] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Fuseteam [Krish, florian is giving you some hope :p], Looks like the wifi card is visible to the device but atm id have to connect to a network via terminal id assume. Instead of a gui like primary wifi connection.
 what does ifconfig -a give you? wlan is normally the builtin card
 Yes <you are on your own with this, we never expect 2 wlan cards to be there, that will confuse the system quite a bit
 Also you can try to use nmtui tool to configure it ^^
[13:09] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Will check that out ,ty so much for the help
[13:13] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/NCzZ9xCq.png
[13:14] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Allot of items in the list
 oh my
[13:19] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/dKrqwTNU.png
[13:19] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> That it there?
[13:19] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Wlp1s0?
[13:19] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Essid:off
 i have a feeling that's the one
[13:20] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> I'll try nmtui it
[13:44] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/9NuRpqN6.png
[13:44] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> This seems to play nice this definitely  needs gui
 cool so it works
 i wonder what would be needed to add gui support
 maybe @Flohack knows xD
[13:53] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Sorry this is where I'm a dummy but on mint desktop when a second wifi card is seen it shows a second wifi on off and login options
[13:53] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Id love to see the same here
 it should be much easier if you can SSH to phone and use nmtui from desktop
 much easier to get gui support?
[13:54] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/nLIaZkse.png
 [Edit] much easier to contribute a gui support or?
 [Edit] much easier to contribute a gui support? or.....
[13:54] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Fuseteam [much easier to contribute a gui support? or.....], This is how it manages multiple adaptors on mint
[13:55] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> (Photo, 720x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/TRsHALbe.png
[13:55] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Im hoping the ui pros could do the same here
 my wild guess would be it would need to be added to https://github.com/ubports/indicator-network for it to appear there
 or maybe https://github.com/ubports/system-settings
 it should be using nmtui under the hood so it shouldn't be too difficult i think
[14:28] <ubptgbot> Jennifer V was added by: Jennifer V
[14:29] <ubptgbot> <Jennifer V> Hi there! I am new to this whole thing. Looking to purchase a device that supports unbuntu to be Apple and Google free. … Can I use any regular laptop in order to download to my phone or do I need certain parameters for the computer?
 yes any regular laptop will do
 but only a select few phones support running ubuntu touch
[14:32] <ubptgbot> <Jennifer V> OK I was looking at the one plus one or the nexus five. I can find devices rather affordably that are in like new condition, but understanding that I can put a fan to on them is important before purchasing
[14:32] <ubptgbot> <Jennifer V> *understanding how I can put Ubuntu on them is important
[14:33] <ubptgbot> <Jennifer V> So do I purchase the install flash from the website on the laptop I want to use and as long as my USB port works on the laptop it doesn’t matter the operating system it has?
 You can use the Ubuntu touch installer on any laptop
[14:33] <ubptgbot> H@ñß9ñ was added by: H@ñß9ñ
 @Jennifer V [So do I purchase the install flash from the website on the laptop I want to use …], Yeah it just needs windows Mac OS or linux
 @H@ñß9ñ [H@ñß9ñ was added by: amyosx], bonk.pw/hewwo
 Hi I'm back
 What do I miss
[14:34] <ubptgbot> <Jennifer V> Ok so windows laptop - check. Best phone for GSM that Ubuntu work on?
 @Jennifer V [So do I purchase the install flash from the website on the laptop I want to use …], uh yes tho there may be os specific bugs
 there are a lot of tips in @WelcomePlus fwiw
 @amyosx [bonk.pw/hewwo], No preview here too,XD
 At wikipedia it's said UT used Native and webapp so my question is native what programming language it's used
 have you seen docs.ubports.com/appdev?
 @Krish g [Im hoping the ui pros could do the same here], Whats your usecase for that actually?
 @Fuseteam [have you seen docs.ubports.com/appdev?], Ubuntu Touch supports two kind of apps. Native apps are apps with interfaces made using QML or HTML with their behavior defined in JavaScript, C++, Python, Rust or Go. Web apps are special containers to run websites in.
 @H@ñß9ñ [Ubuntu Touch supports two kind of apps. Native apps are apps with interfaces mad …], So it's does not support kotlin or java
[14:41] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> @Flohack [Whats your usecase for that actually?], I can think of a few  … 1: using a second wifi adaptor on monitor  mode  … 2: connecting to a camera adhoc network while staying on a wifi network  … 3: connecting to a mesh network while also being connected to a wifi with internet
 @Krish g [I can think of a few  … 1: using a second wifi adaptor on monitor  mode  … 2: conn …], A lot o fGUI needs to change for that, but yes its not too hard to make it possible. Feel free to add feature request on our main tracker.
 @H@ñß9ñ [So it's does not support kotlin or java], no java no unless you ship whatever your java app needs in your app
[14:43] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> My apologies for sounding spoon fed but whats the link to the requests page
 @H@ñß9ñ [So it's does not support kotlin or java], no, this is not android
 @Krish g [My apologies for sounding spoon fed but whats the link to the requests page], since flo said "main tracker" i'm guessing https://github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch
[14:44] <ubptgbot> <Krish g> Ty
 @dohbee [no, this is not android], I know that just wanna make sure
 But it really cool if it support though
 really it is not worth the trouble
[14:57] <ubptgbot> Luka Kronegger was added by: Luka Kronegger
[15:01] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Jennifer V [Ok so windows laptop - check. Best phone for GSM that Ubuntu work on?], What are your criteria for "best"? … If e.g. security is a main concern, you would need one that is still supported with firmware updates...
[15:02] <ubptgbot> <Jennifer V> I want a phone that is secure yes, and that has all major feature working well. Nexus 5 seems easy to find etc but I have seen reviews saying it has mic/speaker issues for calls. That doesn’t help
[15:16] <ubptgbot> <Jennifer V> I’m thinking the google pixel 3a. Any bugs that would detour me?
 Sorry where is the source code for UT? couldn't find in github
 @p0ok3r [Sorry where is the source code for UT? couldn't find in github], on gitlab.com
 @p0ok3r [Sorry where is the source code for UT? couldn't find in github], there are over 400 repositories that compose the source of ubuntu touch
 @p0ok3r [Sorry where is the source code for UT? couldn't find in github], there isn't a single repository
 @p0ok3r [Sorry where is the source code for UT? couldn't find in github], [Edit] there are over 400 repositories that compose the "source" of ubuntu touch
 OMG, how are they bundled into the image then?
 @Jennifer V [I’m thinking the google pixel 3a. Any bugs that would detour me?], device specific bugs are usually listed on github.com/ubports/ubuntu-touch or on device specific repos fwiw
 @p0ok3r [OMG, how are they bundled into the image then?], CI Magic xD
 @p0ok3r [OMG, how are they bundled into the image then?], well the android part is built one way, the rootfs is built another way
 @Fuseteam [CI Magic xD], but there should be a repo for the CI no?
 what are you looking to achieve? you don't need to build everything that makes up the rootfs yourself
 and many of the things in the rootfs are not maintained by us, but come from upstream ubuntu archives
 @dohbee [what are you looking to achieve? you don't need to build everything that makes u …], I'm trying to learn how it works
 @p0ok3r [I'm trying to learn how it works], anything in particular? there are millions of lines of code, and reading it won't necessarily tell you how the overall architecture is designed
[15:28] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Jennifer V [I’m thinking the google pixel 3a. Any bugs that would detour me?], I don't know about bugs, but the support for the 3a (Google, not UT) ends next spring, iirc. After that, security begins to decrease.
[15:29] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Jennifer V [I want a phone that is secure yes, and that has all major feature working well. …], Have you taken a look at the vollaphone with UT?
 @Jennifer V [I’m thinking the google pixel 3a. Any bugs that would detour me?], Any Halium 9 device right now suffers from missing calls after a few hours to a day of use
 I say that as the maintainer of the Pixel 3a, a Halium 9 device port.
 @dohbee [anything in particular? there are millions of lines of code, and reading it won' …], makes sense, where is the best place to start learning UT in a technical level?
 I wouldn't recommend Halium 9 ports as a daily driver phone as long as it's suffering from that issue. I'm investigating it right now, but I'm sort of doing it alone, and I'm running out of ideas. Whoever wants to help fixing it for good is welcome to PM me.
 @p0ok3r [makes sense, where is the best place to start learning UT in a technical level?], i guess it would be to just "dive in." find something that bothers you, like maybe not having a port for your device, and work on a port, or find some bug/feature that you'd like to solve and work on it. but really, just ask. (documentation is one th
[15:32] <ubptgbot> ing we need a lot of work on still)
 @X YZ [I don't know about bugs, but the support for the 3a (Google, not UT) ends next s …], UT is more secure
 And it is very well supported by devs :)
[15:52] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @amyosx [UT is more secure], More secure than .... ?  … (E.g. compared to GrapheneOS - really?)
 Android
 similar to GrapheneOS really, once a kernel reaches EOL Graphene isn't going to maintain that kernel either
[15:53] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @amyosx [And it is very well supported by devs :)], Which sadly does not help against security risks in kernel and firmware. … That's why I brought the topic up in my answer, most people rely on the nicely updated OS and forget about the foundation layer(s).
 Actually, some ROM maintainers fix up vendor and kernel
 @X YZ [Which sadly does not help against security risks in kernel and firmware. … That's …], Graphene just drops support for devices whose kernel reach en of life like a hot brick iirc
 To be frank, Halium 9 Port already are on an older state of security, since they require Android 9 Vendor Blobs, not those nicely patched up ones from 10 or 11.
[15:54] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [similar to GrapheneOS really, once a kernel reaches EOL Graphene isn't going to …], But they also recommend not to use that device then, while a lot of UT users love their Nexus 5 etc. (Looking at a BQ U Plus, E.4.5, ... on my desk ... 😉)
 [Edit] To be frank, Halium 9 Ports already are on an older state of security, since they require Android 9 Vendor Blobs, not those nicely patched up ones from 10 or 11.
 @X YZ [But they also recommend not to use that device then, while a lot of UT users lov …], it doesn't exactly help to keep the device secure xD
[15:55] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [Graphene just drops support for devices whose kernel reach en of life like a hot …], Which makes sense if your focus is security, I think. … Like driving a car without airbags ...
[15:55] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [it doesn't exactly help to keep the device secure xD], Well, that's the point: You can't, if you are not the manufacturer.
[15:55] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> It helps to keep the user secure, though.
 @X YZ [Well, that's the point: You can't, if you are not the manufacturer.], exactly so neither are really more secure in that sense :p
[15:56] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> And don't misunderstand me, I am a fan of UT.
 What do you think the OEM does that a community dev can't do
 @amyosx [What do you think the OEM does that a community dev can't do], Fix vendor blobs properly
 boom
[15:56] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [exactly so neither are really more secure in that sense :p], My (only) point is: People often believe, because UT supports their device, all the code it needs is up to date. … Which leads to a potentially false sense of security.
[15:57] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @fredldotme [Fix vendor blobs properly], 👍
 @X YZ [My (only) point is: People often believe, because UT supports their device, all …], we're very clear that the kernel cannot be updated, that's why we use halium aren't we?
 @fredldotme [Fix vendor blobs properly], BSP leaks go brr
 Some devices have full oss vendor
 Or a lot oss
 T1 we do a lot of oss from an Alps leak
 > full oss vendor … me presses x to doubt
[15:58] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [we're very clear that the kernel cannot be updated, that's why we use halium are …], Yes, you are ... but not everybody understands the difference right away.
 @Fuseteam [> full oss vendor … me presses x to doubt], Lmao
 @X YZ [Yes, you are ... but not everybody understands the difference right away.], people who don't understand the different won't understand why people like graphene are dropping support for devices like hot brick either
 they like will just install LOS and be done with it in the worse case xD
 [Edit] in the worse case they likely will just install LOS and be done with it xD
[16:00] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [people who don't understand the different won't understand why people like graph …], Right - and when you look back on my reply that started our talk you will see that I asked how the OP defines "best". Security was one issue - so I think it is only fair to point out that the older devices supported by UT cannot be as safe as the
[16:00] <ubptgbot> newer one. (That's why I pointed out the Vollaphone.)
[16:01] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [in the worse case they likely will just install LOS and be done with it xD], LOS? Developer releases, open bootloader, developer options, root adb access, ... ?  … Extends device lifetime, is fun to play with, but secure ... ???
 ah right, well they probably do get the implications of halium, if we focus on that xD
 @amyosx [Android], it is not
 @X YZ [LOS? Developer releases, open bootloader, developer options, root adb access, .. …], like i said "people who don't understand the difference" and "worse case" :p
 some parts may be more secure, but on the whole, it is not.
[16:03] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [like i said "people who don't understand the difference" and "worse case" :p], 👍
[16:04] <ubptgbot> Qok_otanimool was added by: Qok_otanimool
 for most people UT, LOS, etc… are "secure enough" if you avoid sketchy and evil apps
 I mean honestly, for Halium 9 we basically turned off any LSM functionality in Binder which basically means potential Wild West style shootings in your IPC channel, man. We're doing the best we can but we don't have a cure for arguably valid security concerns.
 i mean we don't even have FDE, so…
 Yeah that too
[16:06] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @dohbee [i mean we don't even have FDE, so…], Not to mention FBE ...
 I guess it depends on what you consider secure or not, if you're someone who thinks having gapps and Facebook pre-installed, means that your phone is insecure by default because its shipping spyware or however you wish to word or express it. … Then yeah Linage and Ubuntu touch are more secure, but as Dalton has stated before, to
[16:06] <ubptgbot>  use these other os's you have to unlock the bootloader, making it less secure in other ways by default.
 @X YZ [Not to mention FBE ...], B?
[16:07] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> File based
 i read that as "Full Block Encryption" :P
 well more importantly, we have no way to do secure key storage in hardware
 @fredldotme [I mean honestly, for Halium 9 we basically turned off any LSM functionality in B …], Dude I love wild west movies.
[16:08] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [i read that as "Full Block Encryption" :P], https://source.android.com/security/encryption/file-based
 @PhoenixLandPirate [Dude I love wild west movies.], mycroft play "the good the bad and the ugly"
[16:08] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @PhoenixLandPirate [Dude I love wild west movies.], Depends on which colour of hat you are wearing today, I guess ...
[16:09] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> ... and if the movie was done in Italy. 😉
 lolrip Italy
 @Fuseteam [mycroft play "the good the bad and the ugly"], the good, the bad, and the weird
 way better
[16:11] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @dohbee [the good, the bad, and the weird], 😂
 Speaking of security I just remembered one thing.the other day I observed that UT let's you ssh through password
 Speaking of security, looks like UT supports connecting ssh using password.since the default password (phablet) is used by many people (unless it has been changed explicitly) & people often share their ip address in logs.wouldn't it be easy for anyone to ssh into other's UT phone . Don't you think we should by default disable ssh login usi
[16:23] <ubptgbot> ng password?
 It doesn't support password login on properly ported devices.
 SSH password authentication is only done in debugging stages by halium-install.
 @Fuseteam [mycroft play "the good the bad and the ugly"], 'hey Mycroft, what are beans'
 @Sanath [Speaking of security, looks like UT supports connecting ssh using password.since …], UT doesn't support password auth for ssh normally
 @Sanath [Speaking of security, looks like UT supports connecting ssh using password.since …], [Edit] UT  password auth for ssh is normally disabled by default
 heck ssh itself is disabled by default 😂
 @Sanath [Speaking of security, looks like UT supports connecting ssh using password.since …], Not sure.i was able to connect that way on my Xiaomi mi A3 that uses erfan GSI (v10 mostly based on ota 13).Not sure if it's device specific.
 Erfans GSI, though helpful in certain ways, is not a "properly ported device" supported by the Installer
 @Sanath [Not sure.i was able to connect that way on my Xiaomi mi A3 that uses erfan GSI ( …], May I have be mistaken.not sure🙄
 By that I mean devices which receive OTAs via system-image
 @fredldotme [By that I mean devices which receive OTAs via system-image], 👍. will try bring up the issue in device specific UT group.Thanks
[16:38] <ubptgbot> prohackerbro was added by: prohackerbro
 hey guys!
 whats the project called for running any linux-based thing on android devices?
 something starting with h
[16:40] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> (Photo, 320x144) https://irc.ubports.com/3JXA6XZ4.png Welcome!
[16:41] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @prohackerbro [something starting with h], Do you mean Halium?
 yes! thank you
 i just found my old OPO and wanted to use it as a raspberry alternative. The only thing is, touchscreen works just on the bottom half... so i can't really enjoy Ubuntu Touch etc :(
[16:42] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @prohackerbro [yes! thank you], As in https://t.me/halium
 @X YZ [As in https://t.me/halium], thank you :)
 Is there a way to use Signal without Axolotl on Ubuntu Touch?
 @theBest3000 [Is there a way to use Signal without Axolotl on Ubuntu Touch?], axolotl is signal on ubuntu touch
 @Fuseteam [we're very clear that the kernel cannot be updated, that's why we use halium are …], No, even a recent Android kernel would require a Halium port.
 Halium is not a legacy adaptor, its a device boot environment actually. It has nothing to do with the closed source situation on Android phones
 libhybris is the Adaptor you are referring to
[16:54] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [axolotl is signal on ubuntu touch], Reminds me of something I wanted to ask:  … Does somebody know if the team from Signal / Moxie Marlinspike tolerate UT-axolotl's use of their servers?  … I remember there was quite a discussion about the forked LibreSignal-client, that used servers and name ...
 Unfortunalty Signal doesn't support Ubuntu Touch, so Axolotl is the only signal app on Ubuntu Touch. … Signal has been evasive with support, Florian has talked with them previously, and the guys behind matrix have tried to talk to them about possibly bridging matrix and signal, but that hasn't been fruitful either, so the only o
[16:54] <ubptgbot> ption you have on Ubuntu Touch is axolotl.
 @X YZ [Reminds me of something I wanted to ask:  … Does somebody know if the team from Si …], Tolerate at the moment. There is no mutual agreement or so, they could forbid it any time. But its hard to detect I would say ;)
[16:56] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Flohack [Tolerate at the moment. There is no mutual agreement or so, they could forbid it …], They also tolerate Molly ... so let's keep fingers crossed and hope for the best. 🤞
 @Flohack [Tolerate at the moment. There is no mutual agreement or so, they could forbid it …], Switch to Matrix ;)
[17:12] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @calebccff [Switch to Matrix ;)], ....if you want to donate your metadata to every home server involved in your conversation and for as long as the admin there would like to have it ... 😇 … (And yes, I do use Matrix, too. 😉)
 @X YZ [....if you want to donate your metadata to every home server involved in your co …], Eh, my point is just that you CAN host your own homeserver... Privacy is a whole different point, but from what I've heard matrix is still a much safer bet than TG or signal
 Im not a fan of federation for various reasons ^^
 @X YZ [Reminds me of something I wanted to ask:  … Does somebody know if the team from Si …], the issue with libresignal was really about the name
 Hosting yourself means having to maintain the server properly. Thats not a solution for the masses. We need things that work for your mum & dad as well
 @Flohack [Hosting yourself means having to maintain the server properly. Thats not a solut …], Yeah of course, but anyone can register on matrix.org, or many other homeservers and make use of e2e
 @calebccff [Eh, my point is just that you CAN host your own homeserver... Privacy is a whole …], signal is encrypted by default. matrix is not
 (Photo, 550x950) https://irc.ubports.com/rjJKvX43.png
[17:17] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @calebccff [Eh, my point is just that you CAN host your own homeserver... Privacy is a whole …], In case you would like to read a few articles highlighting the pros and cons of most of the available messengers (only in German, though):  … https://www.kuketz-blog.de/signal-hohe-sicherheit-und-zero-knowledge-prinzip-messenger-teil9/ … (Linked
[17:17] <ubptgbot> to the part on Signal here) … Hosting your own server is certainly fun (plan to do that myself, too), but does not keep your metadata private, if you do not host all your contacts also.
[17:18] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @dohbee [the issue with libresignal was really about the name], Yes, that was also my impression from reading that particular discussion ...
[17:18] <ubptgbot> Fuji_Sleepy was added by: Fuji_Sleepy
[17:18] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Flohack [Hosting yourself means having to maintain the server properly. Thats not a solut …], Dendrite might make that more easy in the future ... one can hope. 🤞
[17:19] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @calebccff [Yeah of course, but anyone can register on matrix.org, or many other homeservers …], That's what I meant by "spreading your metadata".
 @X YZ [In case you would like to read a few articles highlighting the pros and cons of …], That's fair, I guess it depends on whether you'd rather give your data to big companies or random homeservers. In the context of matrix what metadata are you worried about that you can't minimise by using a client that doesn't publish it?
[17:22] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @calebccff [That's fair, I guess it depends on whether you'd rather give your data to big co …], My IP address, to begin with ... followed by when I contacted whom and how often ... … As to the importance and consequences of metadata:  … https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/ex-nsa-chief-we-kill-people-based-on-metadata
 @Flohack [No, even a recent Android kernel would require a Halium port.], yes the point was the kernel is essentially never updated on android hardware, old or new
 @X YZ [My IP address, to begin with ... followed by when I contacted whom and how often …], aha yeah that's fun... This isn't a problem unique to federation though... IF anything good federation reduces the risk of governments being able to obtain that info in the first place, compared to say signal where they can be forced to give up t
[17:24] <ubptgbot> hat kind of info
 Of course, there is a dependency that you're careful who you federate with
 But having that freedom sounds a lot better than not...
 And then, this is assuming that you're being targeted by a government...
[17:28] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @calebccff [aha yeah that's fun... This isn't a problem unique to federation though... IF an …], While I like federation as much as the next guy, according to the research I quoted your statement about Signal is wrong: They cannot (without changing code, which is reproducible) "give up that kind of info", because they do not have it. Take a
[17:28] <ubptgbot> look at chapter 4 of that article, if you can read German. Don't know how well it fares in a machine-translation ... … But we are really getting OT here, I am afraid ... you might want to take a look at e.g. the "Spite" group for this kind of discussion.
 technically metadata is a "problem" in genereal, the only way to safeguard it is to have all your friends and family on your own server so that only you can see your data and metadata, but that's obviously not feasible
 yeah, definitely going OT :0
 [Edit] yeah, definitely going OT :)
 @X YZ [While I like federation as much as the next guy, according to the research I quo …], Yeah tis a little off topic, I read about the court case and there WAS metadata they gave up, not much of it...
[17:29] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @Fuseteam [technically metadata is a "problem" in genereal, the only way to safeguard it is …], Even then an adversary could monitor traffic at your ISP.
 i like the :0 emoticon better
 [Edit] i like the :0 emoticon better :p
[17:29] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> @dohbee [yeah, definitely going OT :)], But it was fun while it lasted ... 😉
 but the fun doesn't end here! … meet @ubportsof!
[17:33] <ubptgbot> <X YZ> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/R6M1pt7R.webp
 Can I ask what this @ubportsof chat is? I just want to know because maybe if there are more devs that can help me perfect my htc one m7 port?
 its an overflow chat... its there for more, err, off-topic discussion
 it is for off topic stuff
 Oh
 Maybe for things like custom bootloaders?
 probably not the best place to discuss that. it's not an especially technical chat
 Oh
 And there I realized that I am in the ubports chat currently, not the ubports porting group lol
 lol
 Open Camera is a great open source camera app of you want to get away from the big tech camera apps.
 Anyone have issues importing contacts in axolotl? I don't get any kind of error message. Tried doing import from contacts, from a file, and by entering into the app itself. Current version for both the app and ubports
 @Nico van Strien [I guess not, how does one do that?], https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/guide-how-to-unlock-bootloader-xiaomi-mi-a2.3831484/
[18:27] <ubptgbot> <Nico van Strien> @ItsMeShouko [https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/guide-how-to-unlock-bootloader-xiaomi-mi-a2.3 …], Thank you I'm going to try again tomorrow 👍
 @strongthany [Anyone have issues importing contacts in axolotl? I don't get any kind of error …], ubports is the foundation fwiw
 @strongthany [Anyone have issues importing contacts in axolotl? I don't get any kind of error …], Issue is known and the devs are on it. It seems to be complicated but its on the top of their list!
[18:56] <ubptgbot> DuoRush was added by: DuoRush
[19:02] <ubptgbot> deboakikadtamo was added by: deboakikadtamo
[19:28] <ubptgbot> Uğur CAN was added by: Uğur CAN
 Why would one begin coding a native app for UBports?
 Compared to what?
 @N0nZer0 [Why would one begin coding a native app for UBports?], did you mean to ask where instead of why?
 (Photo, 507x800) https://irc.ubports.com/KErnaeGc.png
 Yes, sorry about the typo
 @N0nZer0 [Yes, sorry about the typo], https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/appdev/
 Thank you
 @RedXXIII [Issue is known and the devs are on it. It seems to be complicated but its on the …], Yes, if there is anyone here with knowledge in golang please come help us
 Maybe this call for help should be raised during the Q&A on saturday
 This is true for every open source project :) https://community.signalusers.org/t/reminder-please-be-nice/21217/9
 sadly true
 but i keep my boots ready to kick :P
 Fwd from Yuodhmv: @Antonstrand … https://t.me/joinchat/UoybdlF4S5G6HxnT
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/0agCQdP9.webp
[21:36] <ubptgbot> hesau2001 was added by: hesau2001
 Hello I'm new here … How can I help you? I'm a JavaScript beginer and also know python with flask, css, html and db with mysql, but not at advanced level also I'm from Mexico so I can translate to Spanish
 @hesau2001 [Hello I'm new here … How can I help you? I'm a JavaScript beginer and also know py …], Hi and welcome. You can find some general information about contributing here: https://docs.ubports.com/en/latest/contribute/index.html
 Check apps if they are missing spanish translations and help out there.
 There is also plenty of issues and feature requests open in our repos. Feel free to pick something that you think you can handle. 😊
 The main starting points are: https://github.com/ubports and https://gitlab.com/ubports/apps.
 For developing we use a tool called clickable: https://gitlab.com/clickable/clickable
 UT uses click packages for (most) apps.
 QML is mainly used for UI. c++, javascript and python are used amongs others for the backend.
 Great! Thank you so much
 You are welcome. Have a look aroud and feel free to ask if you do have questions. 😊
 [Edit] You are welcome. Have a look around and feel free to ask if you do have questions. 😊
 @hesau2001 [Great! Thank you so much], Also Axolotl, our Signal client, is using css and Go and VueJS. If you think that sounds interesting and you can help with the UI, please let us know.
 https://github.com/nanu-c/axolotl
 So, off I am. I leave you now. Might be getting too much info otherwise. 😉
 Ok thak you too much
[23:06] <ubptgbot> Esterailuropus was added by: Esterailuropus
 (Photo, 597x738) https://irc.ubports.com/X1G0dXEK.png