[02:37] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T58: consider minimal install] kc2bez (Dan Simmons) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T58#4080
[02:47] <theloudspeaker> kc2bez ack on the changes. I think I missed that misc:deps part. And wxl confused me about the version number. 😛
[02:48] <theloudspeaker> Didn't you say wxl we should use 0ubuntu1 if we aren't modifying the package that comes from Debian.
[04:00] <wxl> unless i'm remembering something/thinking about something wrong
[04:01] <wxl> or at least it's based on logical consistency given that the similar thing in debian is -1
[04:04] <wxl> looking at the wiki @kc2bez referenced, i'm not seeing anything that suggests one way or another
[04:09] <wxl> here's the "packaging new software" section of the ever-crusty ubuntu packaging guide and you'll note that they give it a 0ubuntu1 version, meaning it's never been in debian and it first appeared in ubuntu https://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/packaging-new-software.html#building-the-package
[04:10] <wxl> er well that doesn't mean that it hasn't been in debian, but it hasn't been patched in debian
[04:12] <wxl> er, i don't know. X'D
[04:12] <wxl> if i look at lxqt-config, it looks like alf never had an upstream-version-0 or upstream-version. always upstream-version-1 or more
[04:22] <wxl> look at dolphin and you'll see there's a 4:20.04.3-0ubuntu1, followed by -1, followed by 1ubuntu1. so we packaged it first, then debian did, then we merged the two.
[04:22] <wxl> so the minimum version for a new ubuntu package is 0ubuntu1. there, done. dang. i'm writing that into the wiki XD
[04:24] <wxl> i find it odd that debian version numbers for linux packages don't have a -1
 legacy explosions?
 :P
[04:34] <wxl> aroooo?
 *yawns*
[07:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_screengrab just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_screengrab/330/
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[07:22] <The_LoudSpeaker> wxl: so the version number I wrote is correct then?
[07:24] <The_LoudSpeaker> it is as far as I understand.
[07:25] <The_LoudSpeaker> also, just noticed the d/control file. It had debhelper-compat set to 12. Should be 13 right? 
[07:26] <The_LoudSpeaker> oh wait so they versioned it 0.8.1-1 in debian
[07:27] <The_LoudSpeaker> so ours should be 0.8.1-1ubuntu1 right?
[07:27] <The_LoudSpeaker> ughhh!! sooo much confusion!
[07:27]  * The_LoudSpeaker leaves 
[07:27]  * The_LoudSpeaker goes to have some food.
[09:33] <kc2bez> That's it The_LoudSpeaker you got it now. 
[09:34] <The_LoudSpeaker> Approve it then. I will push rn.
 sure, I will give it a look.
[09:35] <The_LoudSpeaker> Also, is there a better way to handle merges?
[09:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> Fixing 10s of these in every translation file for a merge is not fun.
[09:36] <The_LoudSpeaker> https://imgur.com/a/13ordVj
[09:37] <The_LoudSpeaker> I'd rather clone from upstream debian, edit the debian/ folder as needed and push.
[09:37] <The_LoudSpeaker> Would be faster.
[09:40] <The_LoudSpeaker> Or can we improve merge o matic to provide some way for packager to select which side changes to keep, per file. So we don't have to manually keep pressing backspace tons of times in translation files?
 When we met with Simon he said he doesn't even use that. He just grabs the Debian source and Ubuntu source and merges the diffs together.
[09:44] <The_LoudSpeaker> Doing that only rn.
[10:27] <guiverc> thank you @Leokolb & KGIII for your continued testing :)
[11:04] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-session just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-session/324/
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[12:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> kc2bez: debhelper-compat is still 12?
[12:56] <The_LoudSpeaker> Saw it as 13 in micro
[12:58] <kc2bez> 13 is the current version but the upstream Debian package is still at 12. You can bump it to 13 but you need to mention it in the changelog that you did so. 
[13:00] <kc2bez> https://salsa.debian.org/lxqt-team/lxqt-build-tools/-/blob/debian/0.8.0-1/debian/control
[13:00] <kc2bez> That is the debian control file from Debian ^
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[16:41] <kc2bez> hmmm, focal daily failed to build today. 
 kc2bez: do you ahve council list mod access?  not sure if you released my msg or if wxl was going to
 and where's the build logs im' curious
 or was this on CI and I need to stab it?
[16:42] <kc2bez> Nah, it is the daily iso. 
[16:42] <wxl> that kind of sucks with the next point release due in feb
[16:43] <wxl> a little late for breaking changes i'd think
[16:43] <kc2bez> agree
[16:45] <wxl> wonder if this is related 
[16:45] <wxl> /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/pylxd/models/_model.py:116: UserWarning: Attempted to set unknown attribute "location" on instance of "Container" key, self.__class__.__name__
[16:45] <wxl> probably not
[16:45] <wxl> The following packages have unmet dependencies: linux-generic : Depends: linux-image-generic (= 5.4.0.65.68) but it is not going to be installed
[16:45] <kc2bez> yup
[16:45] <wxl> tl;dr it should be breaking everything
[16:45] <kc2bez> just got there. 
[18:09] <teward> *smacks wxl upside the head*
[18:10] <wxl> oh shush
[18:10] <teward> wxl: any change to the libx stack will result in basically a whole new devcycle of testing, etc
[18:10] <teward> for each release
[18:10] <teward> for all flavors
[18:11] <wxl> gosh you are really good at repeating yourself, aren't you? XD
[18:11] <teward> I'm not taking that one up to the dev team, you can if you want (i expect you'll be smacked a lot harder)
[18:12] <wxl> i honestly hadn't considered it from that perspective, but that pretty much kills it
[18:12] <wxl> however, i will mention libx11 has had SRUs before
[18:13] <teward> wxl: but were those SRUs cherrypicked revs or full backports?
[18:13] <teward> if they're cherrypicked revs that's one thing
[18:13] <teward> if it's a full backport then that's a whole different thing
[18:13] <wxl> if you were to ask me for a knee jerk reaction, i consider it a total waste of time
[18:13] <teward> if you have a cherrypicked rev to fix the bug I'd have a different mindset
[18:13] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-policykit just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-policykit/81/
[18:13] <teward> but a straight backport?  Nope.
[18:13] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-powermanagement/565/
[18:13] <teward> or if they're Security patches, in which case that's Security Team stuff and tests
[18:14] <wxl> yeah looks like cherry picks
[18:14] <wxl> it's quite possible the required change could be picked out, but i think it's unlikely
[18:17] <wxl> in precise did have 2:1.4.4-2ubuntu1, 2:1.4.4-4, and then 2.1.4.*99.1*-0ubuntu1. weird versioning but apparently it was a new upstream release
 well that's Precise - a dead OS from our perspective now.
 (the community perspective)
 we DO have to be careful when doing anything X-stack related
 esp. when it pulls in nVidia binaries :P
[18:18] <wxl> still, even if this is doable/reasonable, with only 3 months of lubuntu support, and the fact that it affects a much wider world than just lubuntu, i think it's best to leave it to others to consider
 since those're specially handled
 i agree.
 with only 3 months of support from the Lubuntu project for the release, it's not something the Lubuntu Team should focus on
[18:19] <RyuKurisu[m]> <RyuKurisu[m] "I has 2 cores and 4 threads.  Bu"> I don't know why I bothered with virtman; just installed VirtualBox this afternoon and everything was smooth sailing, whereas virtman still isn't working.  VirtualBox even has KVM virtualization 🤗
 esp. since the far-reaching ramifications of updating the base X stack libs can cause some hell if someone tries to upload it
[18:19] <RyuKurisu[m]> And that is why open source won't win for now.
[18:19] <wxl> if it were my choice, i would have dropped lxde sooner. the gtk2 depends alone are enough to make a person mad. if people want to use old crap, there's always freebsd or centos or something XD
 heh
[18:21] <wxl> i will give lxde credit: they have kind of started developing more. but the activity is still way, way low
[18:23] <RyuKurisu[m]> <RyuKurisu[m] "And that is **why** open source "> It isn't as polished as the competition.  I even **wanted** to use the open source option, but like I said it isn't as polished as the (closed) competition. 
[18:24] <wxl> um, virtualbox is open source
[18:25] <KGIII> @guiverc: thank you @Leokolb & KGIII for your continued testing -- No problem.
 wxl: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/lib/libx11/-/commit/dbb55e1a5e82870466b095097d9e46046680ec25 might be the solution to that 'bug' but that's not my call.  See the Ubuntu Bug 1782984
 np (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <guiverc> thank you @Leokolb & KGIII for your continued testing :))
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libx11/+bug/1782984
[18:29] <wxl> @teward001 yeah that's what i was saying. we *might* be able to cherry pick it. it's a small patch for that one fix. but who knows what other architectural fixes preceeded that that allows for that in 1.7 but not 1.6?
[18:29] <wxl> still, my thinking is that if someone wants to bother with that, it should be ubuntu, not lubuntu
[18:31] <RyuKurisu[m]> <wxl "um, virtualbox is open source"> They are? 😱
 wxl: well it's been seen there for some time yes
 Ryu: yes, but owned by Oracle
[18:31] <wxl> vbox is open source except for the ext packs, and even then it's technically "open source" but it's just a non-free license
 vbox has two variants, the Open Source variant that we get to package, and an Enterprise version that's expensive as heck
 yep
 wxl: it's been known for some time but if you want to suggest to the dev team to push the cherrypick, I'd suggest you email ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-devel-discuss for that
 since that's where the Ubuntu stuff sits :P
[18:34] <wxl> maybe recommend that to the OP
 *gives wxl more work*
 you can tell em ;)
[18:35] <wxl> sigh
 i'm on  a teleconference so I can't
 :P
[18:36] <wxl> love you bye
[19:04] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-panel just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-panel/80/
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[20:58] <KGIII> Discourse is throwing a 502 error, by the way.
 that's because it's mid-update
[20:58] <KGIII> Ah, that explains it.
 it'll resolve itself in a bit
 i don't announce the update cycles ;)
 but it won't let me look at the update manager to update plugins, etc. without running the rebuild step and getting us on latest Image so
[20:59] <KGIII> LOL I use WordPress a lot and let it update itself. It too tosses errors when it's updating certain aspects.
 yep well this is a heavy Ruby app
 so :P
 should be up again
 ... or not.  (another update)
[21:01] <KGIII> Yeah, I've taken a look at their github page.
[21:02] <KGIII> For forums, I'm an old-school SMF fan. It makes me feel pleasantly nostalgic.
 lol
 i do the updates to Discourse about once a month
 this is a month since the last update cycle so
[21:02] <wxl> i LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOATHE forums. discourse is the exception. and even then, it's weird.
[21:03] <KGIII> Any great new features to look forward to?
 wxl hates all methods of technical support forums even askubuntu
[21:03] <wxl> well see there again i kind of like askubuntu
 you're only saying that since i'm a diamond mod there :P
[21:03] <wxl> i hate to say it but i think i like jeff atwood's work
[21:03] <KGIII> I like the whole SE network of sites. There's a plugin to turn WordPress into a similar site. I have been meaning to play with it.
 /me throws gems at @teward001 (re @teward001: yep well this is a heavy Ruby app)
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 *absorbs the gems and redirects them to /dev/null*
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[22:49] <RyuKurisu[m]> <wxl "vbox is open source except for t"> Ah, so it is open but not libre?  Too bad, but at least it is plug-n-play vs virtman 🙃
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 I don't remember doing a bunch to get virt-manager working but it was a while ago.
[22:51] <wxl> me either, to be honest
[22:51] <wxl> i'm just used to vbox
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