[00:53] <wonko> OvenWerks: all better! https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/mfH46k64Vz/
[01:00] <OvenWerks> does that mean it runs stable as well?
[01:03] <wonko> I haven't had a chance to change it to 32/2 yet. I still can't run ffado-mixer while jack is running.
[01:08] <Jesse-David> Well after many feeble attempts to get Ubuntu studio 20.04 working, I cannot seem to get it to work properly. I know I could reinstall it and maybe it being fresh would work, but I've verified the files twice on my USB before installing it this last time. So I think I am just going to use Ubuntu Budgie with the Studio-controls application manager
[01:08] <Jesse-David> and install for the time being. I am using one of my devices the same way, so I think it will be better then. But I am not sure what the issues are with studio-controls and my version of 20.04 on Ubuntu Studio. Just too many issues between Jack and studio controls and even though I have completely removed Jack and Studio-Controls, I cannot get it
[01:08] <Jesse-David> to work for the life of me. I've messed with the code and nada. So something else is afoot here and I am not sure what to do, but this is all I can for 2 weeks. It should work better with Budgie as an application package since it works well on one of my laptops thus far. I just really liked xfce, and although I could use xubuntu, I am just going to
[01:08] <Jesse-David> use something I know that works in the meantime!  But I will start looking at the code more and let you guys know whenever I find a bug and report it to ya. Or even just mistyped code, which can happen sometimes without realizing it.
[02:04] <wonko> OvenWerks: crashes immediately at 32/2 still, even with the irq priority changed.
[02:32] <OvenWerks> ok, 32/3?
[02:54] <wonko> I'll try that. What's better though? 64/2 or 32/3?
[02:55] <OvenWerks> 32/3 is lower latency... better?
[02:58] <wonko> yeah, it really doesn't like 32
[02:59] <wonko> quick calculations say it's a difference of 0.67ms
[02:59] <wonko> so that's definitely acceptable
[03:02] <wonko> so 32/2 and 32/3 crap out immediately but 64/2 is so far completely rock solid
[03:38] <OvenWerks> I wonder why. I know there are some difference from AF to AF model
[03:40] <OvenWerks> I also know there is differences in the firmware but I do not have a choice... not having any windows boxen in the house. So did not worry much
[05:32] <Croran> does lowlatency kernel do anything in 2021?
[05:32] <OvenWerks> yes
[05:32] <Croran> worthwhile then for jackd?
[05:33] <OvenWerks> I would say so. It depends on what latecy you need to work at
[05:33] <OvenWerks> for most daws with HW mixing maybe not
[05:34] <OvenWerks> but for guitar effects or softsynth on stage yes
[05:35] <OvenWerks> For stage use I think I would do a bit more though such as setting irq priority, killing cron or other time related things
[05:35] <Croran> how do i read the output of `jack_control dp` ? is the first value shown the default and the second value the current value?
[05:36] <OvenWerks> yes of the last two values the first is default and the second the setting
[05:37] <OvenWerks> the four values are type:default/user:default value:value in use
[05:38] <OvenWerks> note that jack_control runs jackdbus rather than jackd
[05:38] <Croran> ah ok. so i have 48khz, 128 frames, 3 periods
[05:38] <OvenWerks> jackd is run all on the commandline
[05:39] <Croran> i'm told 2 periods is impossible for most/all USB hardware
[05:39] <OvenWerks> impossible if franme size is 32 for sure
[05:39] <Croran> yeah i'm using jackdbus. i don't remember why. i think i liked it because it automatically interacts with pulseaudio to some extent?
[05:40] <OvenWerks> by the time you get to 128 2 should be fine
[05:40] <OvenWerks> yeah it auto creates a pulse jack bridge
[05:40] <Croran> huh. well I get xruns even with 128/3
[05:40] <Croran> few, but some.
[05:41] <Croran> i use rtirq and realtime kernel
[05:41] <Croran> and hardware is scarlett 18i8 first gen
[05:41] <OvenWerks> have you tried moving the device to different usb ports?
[05:42] <Croran> yes, but not for awhile. i mean... i have 24 days of uptime and 7 (31) XRUNS
[05:42] <OvenWerks> it is best to have the audio device a USB bus on it's own no mouse keyboard webcam etc.
[05:43] <Croran> yeah i wonder which ports on my mainboard actually have separate usb chips
[05:43] <OvenWerks> also not a bus that shares (normally irq16) with other things
[05:44] <OvenWerks> if you have a desktop, using a PCIe usb card just for sound is not a bad way to go.
[05:44] <Croran> ah. yeah that's a good idea. i know there's a bunch of crappy ones though. NEC chip is still the best no?
[05:45] <OvenWerks> I think so
[05:45] <OvenWerks> I think it ends up being the default non-intel one anyway.
[05:47] <OvenWerks> I personally don't have much experience with USB devices outside of the really cheap (I paid less than $5 each for three of them) mic/headphines dongles
[05:47] <Croran> any reason not to buy a usb 3 card for use with a usb 2 audio interface?
[05:48] <OvenWerks> I don't know for sure. I suspect not. except for personus boxes
[05:49] <OvenWerks> I have seen things about presonus boxes needing real USB2
[05:49] <Croran> what audio card do you use then?
[05:49] <Croran> let me guess. m-audio delta?
[05:50] <OvenWerks> ehci driven.
[05:50] <OvenWerks> I have a delta66, an AudioPCI, and an audiofire 12
[05:50] <Croran> nice. good guess haha
[05:51] <Croran> which one do you mostly use?
[05:51] <OvenWerks> the d66 probably needs some work as it is a bit noicy
[05:51] <OvenWerks> the audiofire is used for everything right now
[05:51] <Croran> oh ok
[05:52] <OvenWerks> The D66 can run very low latency (16/2) but the audiofire has nicer sound and can do 32/2 jsut fine
[05:53] <Croran> nice. but you have to have a firewire card, right?
[05:53] <OvenWerks> yes
[05:54] <OvenWerks> it was given to me so I could do some testing on FW stuff. I paid shipping and got the card
[05:54] <OvenWerks> (and cable... well two cables as the first was bad )
[13:23] <wonko> OvenWerks: ffado-fireworks-downloader can't flash your AF12?
[14:57] <wonko> Question: if given the choice between VST, LV2 or LADSPA is there an order of preference?
[15:04] <OvenWerks> LV2, VST3, VST2, LADSPA... in general. Make sure whatever SW you use supports what you want... and VST* should be LXVST
[15:05] <OvenWerks> There are some VST versions that work better than the LV2 because the developer developed for VST but JUCE gave the option to make both LV2 exists, other times the developer developed for LV2 but got VST because ... JUCE
[15:06] <OvenWerks> In either case whatever the dev was aiming for will be best
[15:06] <OvenWerks> In theory, LV2 is better but a plugin that is made to be either will not use LV2's extra functionality
[15:08] <OvenWerks> Oh and yes, I can't flash my AF12.... which is why if the AF12 is power cycled, I have to set clock to internal manually before jack works properly
[15:08] <wonko> that sucks. :(
[15:09] <wonko> I power cycled and set the mixer settings (rebooting got output muted again) so hopefully that sticks.
[15:09] <wonko> I can't save the settings to the device after jack as touched it
[15:09] <wonko> which all seems a bit odd
[15:09] <wonko> Speaking of firmware, I wonder if it's worth the effort to try and get the latest on there (if it isn't already)
[15:10] <wonko> In theory I can swap it over to the kid's computer, but the AF drivers aren't supported on win10 so that may or may not even work
[15:10] <OvenWerks> One of the updates for studio-controls 2.2 is to allow a script to be run before jack runs. I am planning to put a script on my session to set clock (and some mutes) before jack runs
[15:10] <wonko> I got librnnoise which comes in all three plugin formats, so I'm not sure which is best. I *think* the VST one is VST2
[15:11] <wonko> if these settings don't "stick" for me I'd love that
[15:11] <wonko> oh, can we get FFADO 2.4.4 to get rid of that popup that isn't used?
[15:12] <wonko> or will that be in >= 20.10?
[15:13] <OvenWerks> VST2 is well supported but it uses clean room techniques to get around the proprietary code. VST3 is GPL3 from the get go
[15:14] <OvenWerks> So I expect people will start dropping VST2 support as most hosts start adding VST3 support. Ardour has added it... but it will not be in the Ardour 20.04 comes with
[15:15] <OvenWerks> If you use LMMS... you need either ladspa (LV1) or VST2... and I am not sure if that is even lxvst
[15:23] <sirriffsalot> I'm still having the occasional problem, even now that I updated the kernel to the latest one.. PulseAudio needs to be killed and restarted for the option to switch sound channels in pavucontrol to be available
[15:24] <sirriffsalot> Not only that but my external usb sound-card is successfully used by jack, I route the sound to it, but no sound. If I restart the card (switch it on and off again), it works..
[15:25] <sirriffsalot> Scratch that: now with the newest kernel, even restarting my USB-card doesn't help..
[15:26] <sirriffsalot> Pavucontrol mutes the channel automatically for some reason, lol
[15:26] <sirriffsalot> Well that explains it at least.. I'll keep you posted
[15:27] <wonko> OvenWerks: All setup and working in Carla. it's very effective. Way better than my chain of compressors and gates and shit from before. :)
[15:31] <OvenWerks> good
[15:31] <OvenWerks> which version of Carla?
[15:32] <OvenWerks> Hmm, I don't think we ship the bad one.
[15:33] <OvenWerks> 20.04 should have 2.1 by default but the backports has 2.2-patched
[15:34] <OvenWerks> time to make breakfast
[15:35] <wonko> I have backports enabled
[16:45] <rgh> oh yeah , studio-controls is still crashing on my laptop
[16:45] <rgh> 62 updates, let's first do that lol
[16:47] <OvenWerks> Studio-controls is crashing or jack or?
[16:47] <OvenWerks> rgh: and which version?
[16:48] <rgh> hold on
[16:48] <rgh> laptop is struggling lol
[16:48] <OvenWerks> it should show on the gui.
[16:48] <OvenWerks> or cat /usr/share/studio-controls/version
[16:49] <rgh> Yeah. Lappy isn't very responsive atm
[16:49]  * rgh on mobile
[16:50] <rgh> 2.1.1
[16:51] <rgh> Crashes with some libinfi?? Thing
[16:51] <OvenWerks> Ah, that is not studio-controls. but the lib is supposedly being rebuilt
[16:51] <rgh> Ok. I gotta wait till all updates have completed
[16:52] <OvenWerks> so you have 20.10 then.
[16:53] <rgh> Uhm. Think so yes.
[16:54] <rgh> I am very tech-savvy
[16:54] <rgh> Lol
[16:55] <OvenWerks> 20.04 does not have this problem. I am not sure where it came from.
[17:34] <sirriffsalot> OvenWerks: here's something spooky... I connected my guitar to IN9 on my sound card.. I haven't routed IN9 anywhere yet.. but my guitar's pickups are for some mysterious reason being sent to my speakers for playback :O
[17:35] <OvenWerks> off the top of my head I would say HW mixing
[17:36] <OvenWerks> (in the audio device)
[17:39] <sirriffsalot> OvenWerks: I looked around in alsamixer and I found nothing that seems to be causing this...
[17:39] <OvenWerks> how about knobs on the box?
[17:40] <sirriffsalot> OvenWerks: this has never been an issue in 19.10. The gain-knob is obviously turned up about halfway, and the line out for my speakers are also turned up to get some sound when I actually route the guitar to guitarix, for instance
[17:41] <sirriffsalot> But there's no "knob" as it were that tells this device to automatically take a clean signal of one or all of these inputs and send it directly to the outputs..
[17:45] <sirriffsalot> This is truly bizzare... :-S
[17:46] <sirriffsalot> The same happens on all inputs, including the xlr-inputs
[17:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> sirriffsalot: That sound like something going on with your hardware. Jack is not capable of routing audio without being told where to route it unless it autoconnects. Ruling out anything in the Carla patchbay, I'd say you might have a knob or a switch that allows a bypass. My audio interface has a mix knob that allows a bypass from the input straight to the output without routing through the processor (computer). Check all of your
[17:46] <Eickmeyer[m]> hardware connections.
[17:47] <Eickmeyer[m]> (don't be so quick to blame the OS. :) )
[17:47] <rgh> stupid Linux
[17:47] <rgh> Oh wait 😃
[17:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Hahahaha
[17:48] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer[m]: I know, I mean no offense, but I've literally touched nothing on my box, and immediately this happened in 20.04.. I'll bet anything I could go back to my 19.10 version and this will not happen
[17:48] <sirriffsalot> I'll try it in a moment
[17:48] <sirriffsalot> Triple-checking my box here
[17:48] <rgh> I've seen people compiling the latest version of qjackctl from git because jack don't work.
[17:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, but 19.10 is completely unsupported and we won't support your issue if it's gone in 19.10. Sorry, but that's the breaks.
[17:49] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer[m]: the issue is in 20.04, not in 19.10 though, lol.. :)
[17:49] <Eickmeyer[m]> sirriffsalot: I understand, but 19.10 might have a false bug that "fixes" your issue.
[17:50] <sirriffsalot> Eeh... occam's razor seems appropriate here
[17:51] <sirriffsalot> Does 20.04 download drivers for certain sound cards automatically?
[17:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> There are no drivers in Linux other than those in the kernels.
[17:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> So, no.
[17:54] <Eickmeyer[m]> If it's a class-compliant device, it'll "just work".
[17:55] <Eickmeyer[m]> sirriffsalot: ^
[17:55] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer[m]: right..
[17:56] <sirriffsalot> Well I've been sifting through every mixer et cetera and I can't work out what might be causing this. I'm using the TASCAM US-16x08.
[17:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> If it's not a class-compliant device, there are no guarantees.
[17:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> It's up to the hardware manufacturer at that point.
[17:57] <Eickmeyer[m]> I don't have any experience with that interface. You could try asking in #opensourcemusicians or @lau.
[17:59] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer[m]: will do, cheers
[17:59] <Eickmeyer[m]> 👍️
[18:00] <sirriffsalot> Otherwise US 20.04 is looking sweet :)
[18:02] <Eickmeyer[m]> The real grind at this point is 21.04 since 20.04 was last year's release. I've been mostly updating stuff this cycle, not too much in terms of new stuff in comparison to 20.10.
[18:03] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer[m]: isn't that always the grind? :D The next thing?
[18:04] <sirriffsalot> Or is this an unusually rough grind for some reason?
[18:04] <Eickmeyer[m]> sirriffsalot: That and work, which in my case is UX for the Kubuntu Focus laptops.
[18:06] <sirriffsalot> Well, suddenly my problem here tonight seems a little trite in comparison, so I'll leave you to it for now :D Best of luck!
[18:13] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer[m]: Figured it out: alsamixer > F6 > all lines were at 95, apparently lowering the right one doesn't affect the gain-signal that is sent to guitarix when I actually route that input to guitarix
[18:14] <sirriffsalot> F6 > TASCAM > all lines...*
[18:14] <Eickmeyer[m]> sirriffsalot: Awesome! Glad you figured it out!
[18:15] <Eickmeyer[m]> Alsamixer or the GUI version (qasmixer) should definitely be checked periodically if you ever use PulseAudio as your main audio subsystem. Hopefully these issues will disappear with Pipewire.
[18:17] <sirriffsalot> Well I hate to pester you with a follow-up question or two here, but how come lowering the line-gains doesn't affect the sound at all jack-wise, but if I lower the master for alsa, all sound goes away...?
[18:19] <Eickmeyer[m]> Because ALSA is always running and JACK uses ALSA as the backend. ALSA controls all.
[18:19] <sirriffsalot> Right, cause in the QasMixer I see a bunch of other stuff... compression-rates, and eq-settings.. I'm starting to wonder how much I should be concerned about this part of alsa's configuration before I start recording, lol
[18:34] <OvenWerks> sirriffsalot: with regard to alsamixer, it is often hard for alsa to figure out if a control is an input or an output.
[18:34] <OvenWerks> changing inputs will not affect the output level... but the inputs control may show up as output control or both input and output
[18:37] <sirriffsalot> OvenWerks: I see! Thanks guys :)
[19:36] <OvenWerks> wonko: ALSA module for fireworks devices seems bad 20.10
[19:38] <OvenWerks> wonko: however, with the ffado modules, I am still able to run jack at 32/2
[19:38] <OvenWerks> so your hw has some issues that mine does not for very low latency
[19:39] <wonko> I couldn't get ALSA to work at all in either my frankenstein 20.10 or my fresh install of 20.04
[19:39] <wonko> Maybe I'll chase down this firmware thing
[19:39] <wonko> that could very well be it
[19:40] <OvenWerks> in the terminal logging there was an error message when the fireworks module tried to start about not being able to access.
[19:41] <OvenWerks> wonko: also, you should install multimedia-firewire
[19:42] <OvenWerks> It turns out studio-controls expects some of the things it installs to be there
[19:45] <OvenWerks> wow, running the audiofire 12 at 16/3
[19:45] <wonko> wtf!
[19:46] <wonko> Ok, so what do I expect to behave differently now that I have multimedia-firewire?
[19:46] <OvenWerks> maybe ffado-mixer will work while jack is running?
[19:48] <OvenWerks> hmm, nope 16/3 does not really work. jack runs but... autojack seems to not like itself.
[19:50] <wonko> nope: https://gist.github.com/bhechinger/4e45c20cf58952b080552736f92d76b6
[19:55] <OvenWerks> It does work here.
[19:56] <wonko> so what the hell is different then?
[19:56] <OvenWerks> That could be a firmware thing
[19:58] <wonko> Yeah, got the latest drivers. Going to take a risk and upload the firmware and see if that changes anything.
[19:59] <OvenWerks> before you do, I would look for the best drivers to use
[19:59] <OvenWerks> latest may not be it.
[19:59] <wonko> too late. :)
[19:59] <OvenWerks> ok
[20:00] <wonko> besides, I could barely find out what version there is aside from going to the website to download stuff.
[20:00] <wonko> and I still don't know what version I was running already. :)
[20:01] <wonko> I still can't tell, I just know it's the 5.8 stuff because that's what I downloaded and installed. :)
[20:01] <wonko> Hmm, now ffado-mixer complains about no supported device found
[20:02] <wonko> I probably should have saved that other firmware (assuming I even could)
[20:03] <wonko> well, powercycling it wasn't the solution
[20:03] <wonko> Could not initialize IEEE 1394 service
[20:03] <OvenWerks> ffado-test Discover
[20:03] <wonko> when I try to list
[20:03] <wonko> 1611777803292481: Fatal (devicemanager.cpp)[ 187] initialize: No firewire adapters (ports) found.
[20:03] <wonko> maybe a reboot is in order
[20:03] <OvenWerks> gives version
[20:03] <OvenWerks> could be
[20:06] <wonko> Well, that's slightly better
[20:06] <wonko> ok, ffado-mixer works again. :)
[20:06] <OvenWerks> \o/
[20:07] <wonko> still can't connect to ffado-mixer when jack is running
[20:08] <wonko> and ffado-test Discover hangs while jack is running
[20:09] <OvenWerks> the audiofire seems to be more stable than my D66 ever was
[20:10] <wonko> Hmm, still doesn't like 32/3
[20:10] <wonko> might just be a difference in hardware between the 4 and 12
[20:11] <OvenWerks> The D66 would also run at 16/2 but always had the odd xrun. This is running at 16/2 with no xruns at all
[20:12] <OvenWerks> it could be. They do have different firmware and the 4 has the spdif stuff as well
[20:12] <OvenWerks> (jack dsp is up at 24% with just jack and the pulse bridge)
[20:20] <OvenWerks> rgh: I just updated my version of 20.10 and am not seeing problems with studio-controls
[20:20] <rgh> oh well 🙂 coding atm ;-)
[20:20] <rgh> I'll sort it out another time
[20:20] <OvenWerks> ok
[20:21]  * OvenWerks is going back to 20.04
[20:36] <wonko> Ugh, so now jack just crashed with this error in ~/.log/jack/jackdbus.log
[20:36] <wonko> https://gist.github.com/bhechinger/cea0fcb309f806e74a099d00096a291b
[20:37] <OvenWerks> Thats the same as you had before you fixed the priority yesterday (I think)
[20:38] <wonko> it is? hmmm. But it wasn't doing that at 64/2 just 32/3, right?
[20:39] <OvenWerks> ya
[20:39] <wonko> ok, restarted it all, let's see what happens here
[20:40] <wonko> Well, so far so good.
[20:40] <wonko> it crashed almost immediately last time
[21:07] <wonko> well, almost 30 minutes and rock solid, so I'll call that a fluke. :)